Good Old Days

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jmcmike

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jul 26, 2002
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What ever happenned to the "good old days" when gfx cards were released in 3 different models, all with the same core, just clocked at different speeds. Remember what a great deal a GF4 Ti4200 was? Now the big players cripple the middle and lower tier products by chopping the memroy interface in half or disabling half of the pipelines.

Am I alone in thinking this stinks?
 
Originally posted by Merlin45
9800xt, 9800 pro 9800 non pro

5950, 5900 ultra, 5900 non ultra, 5900xt
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To be honest I can't comment on the Nvidia cards as I have not kept up with with much of the details, especially the 5900xt. As for the 9800 series, it's not the same situation as the GF4 line I referenced.

In the case of the GF4 line, all three models were released at the same time, the 9800XT came much later. Also, the price difference between the 4200 and the 4600 was drastic enough to make the 4200 a really great deal. Furthermore, the price of the 4200 dropped so quickly that within a very short period of time you could get one for less than $150. The same could not be said for the 9800 until recently. It was over $200 for quite some time.

So I guess I take your point but the deals just aren't as sweet on the low end as they used to be or so it seems. Perhaps I'm just confused by the mass marketing of the 9600XT and the like, costing as much as a 9800 NP but not in the same league. Confusing to say the least.

Or maybe I just wanted some discussion on the matter. ;)
 
ok, the only differences with the nvidia lineup are core and mem clocks, they are just like the gf4 situation, ATI has never had their lineups set up like that (tiered with the same core) so what I listed is the closest they have ever gotten to that lineup.
 
Man when I read the title for some reason I was thinking Voodoo 3 3000 vs TNT2 card.
 
Yea, I guess I'm just off base here. Looks like Nvidia still plays by the old rules.

BTW, I am obviously not a fanboy of either camp. I bought an ATI this time around primarily because of image quality and (at the time) price.
 
Originally posted by darktiger
Man when I read the title for some reason I was thinking Voodoo 3 3000 vs TNT2 card.
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;) I've hoarded my Voodoo1 & Voodoo2 video cards. :D

Mmmm. Vintage!
 
It may stink... but the fact that WE were overclocking the shit out of the value cards and receiving close ot the same results as the more expensive cards wasn't good business sense.

Enter the change from frequency differences only.
 
to me the sheer number of different current cards is amazing, it makes choosing a card so much more complicated...
the radeon 9xxx, or 3xx, has sooo many different variations, as does the FX series. each new high end card is just a tiny bit better. the R4xx's and NV4x's had better get out here soon.

even the number of cards that you can still buy is alot (as in, excluding 9000, 9100, 9500 here and there, 5800, etc)

9200,9200SE, 9600SE, 9600, 9600pro, 9600XT, 9700, 9700pro, 9800SE, 9800, 9800pro, 9800XT

5200, 5200U, 5600SE, 5600XT, 5600, 5600U, 5700, 5700U, 5900SE, 5900XT, 5900, 5900U, 5950U.

does that seem a bit much to anyone?

sry to those matrox fans, but i dont consider the parhelia a 'selling' card
 
Exactly, Its a pain in the butt. Mid, low end, high end is how it should be to keep us all from having a headache.

I vaguely remember Nvidia admiting they have way to many versions.
 
i think it would be kinda cool if there was a complete change, no more radeon or geforce
 
I remember buying my geforce 4 ti 4200 64mb and thinking it was a complete steal. With a simple overclock I was running with the big boys at half the price. It was tweakers bliss. Unforutnately they found out that we had too much fun with it and decided that they should cripple the real cheap cards with half pipes etc. I feel you brother, I do.
 
Originally posted by Bodega
to me the sheer number of different current cards is amazing, it makes choosing a card so much more complicated...
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Yes, very complicated. Especially when you have a card like the 9600XT that costs as much as a 9800 NP but can't touch it's performance.

Not trying to make any 9600XT owners feel bad, just the way it is, sorry.
 
Originally posted by topslop1
I remember buying my geforce 4 ti 4200 64mb and thinking it was a complete steal. With a simple overclock I was running with the big boys at half the price. It was tweakers bliss....I feel you brother, I do.
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Thanks for the empathy. I know exactly what you mean. I ran with my OC'd 4200 until just last November when I got my 9800 Pro.

I know, I know... Why didn't I get a 9800 NP instead? Well, I wanted to buy on the higher end this time. Not sure why, just wanted the best this time I guess.
 
Originally posted by jmcmike
What ever happenned to the "good old days" when gfx cards were released in 3 different models, all with the same core, just clocked at different speeds. Remember what a great deal a GF4 Ti4200 was? Now the big players cripple the middle and lower tier products by chopping the memroy interface in half or disabling half of the pipelines.

Am I alone in thinking this stinks?
Click to expand...

that way is more expensive for them

things change when cost becomes an issue
 
Originally posted by Brent
that way is more expensive for them

things change when cost becomes an issue
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I don't know. Aside from the quality of memory how much money can be saved by disabling pipelines on a chip? I would submit that it may actually cost more in engineering and driver development costs to distrubute crippled mid and low end cards.
 
well if they are non functioning, you save the money you would have lost by throwing the whole chip away. also things like the 5600, 5200, 5700 are all built to be that way, they aren't neutered enthusiast chips.
 
think of this

lets make up a graphics chip called Z100

lets say Z100 is the enthusiast level chip and will have 16 Pipelines

now lets say this company wants to sell mainstream and value video cards

it doesn't make sense to produce the 16 pipeline part and just disable 4 pipelines for the mainstream part and 4 more for the value part, its an INCREADIBLE waste of cost because the transistor count is exactly the same, its the same chip, with just stuff disabled, costs to much to do that

so what this company does is produce the 16 pipeline part for the enthusiast

then produce a whole new chip the Z80 which has only 12 pipelines, meaning less transistors, and less cost to make it

then they produce a new chip called Z60 which has only 8 pipelines, thus less transistors, thus less cost to make it
 
and then they can also take z100 chips that don't quite pass muster with only say, 12 functioning pipelines, disable the broken 4 pipes, and sell it as the z100SE and avoid loosing the money lost if they had to throw away the whole chip.
 
making 3 different cores for different price segments makes sense for me, but having more than 3 (possibly 4 like the really really low budget card) in production is annoying. I think before they refresh a card they should retire the old. 3/4 models for each of 2/3 competitors would be ideal.

The current system is obviously flawed especially when you can consider that you can spend $10 or $20 and get much better performance.
 
good old days was voodoo2 sli :p


though I must admit my GF3 ti200 oc'd @ ti500 speeds was a great purchase at the time.
 
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