HardOCP News
[H] News
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Good Article, Great Quote
- Thread starter HardOCP News
- Start date
DoA-fLetcH
n00b
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2009
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Great quote! So true for many kids/young people growing up this generation.
pigwalk
[H]F Junkie
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- Dec 14, 2004
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Just to a child? If my wife doesn't get me a PS3 I'm calling ICE on her ass!
I'm ashamed to say I used to be like this when I was younger. I always wanted a computer... Didn't really get a usable one of my own until I was 16-17.
This same topic came up on Friday.
Some people go crazy trying to make sure they get their child every single "it" item for the year.
As I said in the the thread, probably more that not, the parent is going to through all this trouble of getting the item and the child isn't going to use it very long or even like it after getting it. Yes the parent won't learn and the next year they will be right back out doing it again.
I have always thought it crazy that people going further and further into debt buying their children all this stuff and in the end their child isn't going to appreciate it.
Some people go crazy trying to make sure they get their child every single "it" item for the year.
As I said in the the thread, probably more that not, the parent is going to through all this trouble of getting the item and the child isn't going to use it very long or even like it after getting it. Yes the parent won't learn and the next year they will be right back out doing it again.
I have always thought it crazy that people going further and further into debt buying their children all this stuff and in the end their child isn't going to appreciate it.
I'm ashamed to say I used to be like this when I was younger. I always wanted a computer... Didn't really get a usable one of my own until I was 16-17.
Makes you appreciate that computer more doesn't it? Sure did for me when I bought my own when I was 20.
Makes you appreciate things more when it was your blood and sweat that went into it. Damn kids these days, don't know the meaning of the word "Work".
Great article, and I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees it. One thing I wish people would realize is, we live in an unnecessarily 'throw-away' economy. If its broken, throw it away and just get a new one. 9 times out of 10, its cheaper to replace than fix and the manufacturers of the crap we all purchase know it and most often use it to their benefit.
Yep... unfortunately I think the ignorant people will always out-bread the balanced people. I have a nephew that has three different gaming systems on his Christmas list...along with the games for each of them. I'm a bad uncle, but I think he left of coal....
The blame falls on the parents for letting/making the kids watch 16 hours of TV a day instead of playing with the kids.
The "blame" falls squarely on the holiday.
Christmas has turned into a "celebration" of gifting, instead of a celebration of family and reflection of the events of the year.
We have come to equate Christmas with gifts, and the idea that you are entitled to a certain number of gifts.
Christmas has turned into a "celebration" of gifting, instead of a celebration of family and reflection of the events of the year.
We have come to equate Christmas with gifts, and the idea that you are entitled to a certain number of gifts.
NeoMatriX724
Limp Gawd
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It has been pretty ridiculous. Kids these days have a huge sense of entitlement. Parents keep enshrining this idea that everyone of their children is either a little prince or princess who is owed everything by the world. They aren't doing these kids any favors.
I'm not that old myself, My parents are pretty well off (despite starting with nothing when they came here). I got the good stuff when I was younger, the Nintendo, the Sega Genesis, etc. Asides from the Nintendo (we were like 2 at time, and my Dad loved technology), we worked for it. Be it chores, or odd-jobs for family friends, etc.
Parents taught us to avoid impulse buys, research what you want, determine if you really want it...if you can really use it...and would it be so bad if you didn't get it? Beyond that, the best question to ask, What ELSE could you get if you don't buy that now?
You can trace today's economic problems to the mindset being enshrined in kid's these days. Spend Spend Spend, without knowing the value of money. If you don't know the value of money, it's very easy to swipe a credit card and keep doing so until you're in massive amounts of debt.
You want to teach your kids well, you need to make them work for what they want...Set an allowance rate for chores or what not, and let them earn it.
I'm not that old myself, My parents are pretty well off (despite starting with nothing when they came here). I got the good stuff when I was younger, the Nintendo, the Sega Genesis, etc. Asides from the Nintendo (we were like 2 at time, and my Dad loved technology), we worked for it. Be it chores, or odd-jobs for family friends, etc.
Parents taught us to avoid impulse buys, research what you want, determine if you really want it...if you can really use it...and would it be so bad if you didn't get it? Beyond that, the best question to ask, What ELSE could you get if you don't buy that now?
You can trace today's economic problems to the mindset being enshrined in kid's these days. Spend Spend Spend, without knowing the value of money. If you don't know the value of money, it's very easy to swipe a credit card and keep doing so until you're in massive amounts of debt.
You want to teach your kids well, you need to make them work for what they want...Set an allowance rate for chores or what not, and let them earn it.
LeninGHOLA
Vladimir Hayt
- Joined
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Every "last" generation says this about every current generation, since the beginning of time.
The "blame" falls squarely on the holiday.
Christmas has turned into a "celebration" of gifting, instead of a celebration of family and reflection of the events of the year.
We have come to equate Christmas with gifts, and the idea that you are entitled to a certain number of gifts.
Eh, not really. The holiday is an excuse, not the cause. The blame still falls on people. Take responsibility ;-)
Yup
It's not just the kids, but the adults who need to learn how to live within their means.
I’m amazed at all the sob stories about people losing their jobs & within a few months they are losing their cars/house/etc.
You need to have 6 to 12 months living expenses (take home pay) saved in case you loose your job or have an emergency (a new 52" LCD is not an emergency). With unemployment & cutting back on expenses, you should be able it stretch that to 12 to 24 months.
I’m amazed at all the sob stories about people losing their jobs & within a few months they are losing their cars/house/etc.
You need to have 6 to 12 months living expenses (take home pay) saved in case you loose your job or have an emergency (a new 52" LCD is not an emergency). With unemployment & cutting back on expenses, you should be able it stretch that to 12 to 24 months.
There is no doubt the problem sits squarely with children and parents.
But, when does all this stuff surface?? Time and time again this is discussed at the holidays; people are trampled on Black Friday, kids call 9-11 because they didn't get an XBox 360 or whatever,temper tantrums over hard to get items............
we've truely lost our way here.........in the US. It's unbelievable.
exitstageleft
Weaksauce
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2005
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- 64
meh.
Does he actually expect to get everything on his list though? When i was growing up my parents had a set amount that they would have to spent (normally between $100 and $150) and I knew that. However I would always give them a list that probably had close to $1000+ of stuff on it. I never expected to get everything on the list. I just wanted to make sure that they had a decent selection of stuff to get me and to help prevent me know knowing what I would get getting. A normal list for me would include 30+ movies, 30+ cds, 10 - 20 games per console that I owned, and a few other things. I knew that most likely i would get 1 game, maybe a movie or two, a cd and a few other things. But i still gave them a larger list of things to pick from.
So if your nephew is doing something that like then it is one thing, if he actually expects every single item on his list then it is another.
Agreed, it is a mix of kids not being made to understand money and adults not understandig their limits. People are getting more and more to the point of living off of credit and not realizing that it is bad. They then get in over their heads and try to blame it on everyone else. Then these parents pass on their bad traits to their children and it just gets worse.
I remember reading an article about a year ago that talked about parent supporting their children till they are about 30. The article was about parents paying for their children's rent and utilies for years after their are "out on their own" after college and after they get their first job. It seems to make it sound to me like they were supporting the idea of parents doing this so that your child don't have to start out in debt but could spend all their money on getting themselves setup for a few years then take over supporting themselves. I thought it was a horrible idea as that doesn't teach them anything. They will just get use to not having to pay those bills, waste the money and the parents will be stuck supporting them for life or watch as they get in way over their heads. That doesn't teach them how to be responsible with money.
Same thing here. Getting your child everything they want and running yourself deep into debt will just teach your that is what you are suppose to do and also not teach them the value of money. Then they will grow up, get a credit card the first moment they can then run themselves into debt when they first start off and be screwed.
When you max out a credit card, due to spending at a faster rate than you can pay it off. You are not suppose to extend your limit or get a few more credit cards. You are suppose to cut down on spending.
Sorry Steve, THIS is really the important quote:
When retail stores can only start to make a profit only after 47 weeks have passed, we have too many stores. Chains are too competitive. If one big box merchant opens a store, then a competitor is going to open one across the street or down the block, even if means cannabalizing sales from another one of their own stores nearby.
When retail stores can only start to make a profit only after 47 weeks have passed, we have too many stores. Chains are too competitive. If one big box merchant opens a store, then a competitor is going to open one across the street or down the block, even if means cannabalizing sales from another one of their own stores nearby.
The-UselessNoob
Limp Gawd
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- Jun 15, 2009
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Yeah, parents need to teach their kids about basic economics from an early age so that they won't be disappointed when they can't have everything they want.
And letting the TV raise your kid is a bad way to do that, because TV commercials mostly tell you that you must get what you want in any way possible.,
Those other things are nice, yes, but I like the gifting side of Christmas, too. It feels good to give a gift to someone you love, even if your gift it completely expected and you totally expect one in return.
And letting the TV raise your kid is a bad way to do that, because TV commercials mostly tell you that you must get what you want in any way possible.,
The "blame" falls squarely on the holiday.
Christmas has turned into a "celebration" of gifting, instead of a celebration of family and reflection of the events of the year.
We have come to equate Christmas with gifts, and the idea that you are entitled to a certain number of gifts.
Those other things are nice, yes, but I like the gifting side of Christmas, too. It feels good to give a gift to someone you love, even if your gift it completely expected and you totally expect one in return.
Lol. One of my favorite xkcd comics.
And it's true. We naturally remember the good things about our past and forget the bad things, so every adult thinks his generation was the Golden Age of the World and society is tumbling downhill from there. Read The Black Swan by Nassim Nicholas Taleb; it talks a lot about this very subject.
Having said that, parents still need to teach their kids about money. Period.
We have no excuse not to teach children about monetary theory and financial management, or for that matter, we have no excuse not to teach ourselves financial prudence.
I am more bothered about how that we as adults are failing to lead by example in earning our keeps and having sound budget. We think of easy money that require less and less effort to spend, losing grip over how that money hasn't gotten any easier to come by. Well, there is no free lunch, no cake, and no walk in the park when it's all said and done.
I am more bothered about how that we as adults are failing to lead by example in earning our keeps and having sound budget. We think of easy money that require less and less effort to spend, losing grip over how that money hasn't gotten any easier to come by. Well, there is no free lunch, no cake, and no walk in the park when it's all said and done.
Since when did the sense of entitlement stop with the children? By the way most people in the U.S. complain, I'm pretty sure the sense of monetary entitlement is ingrained into the many more "adults" in our population and they have merely passed on their sense of entitlement to their children.
This year I can actually say with relative certainty that Christmas has lost it's true meaning in the eyes of many people. Sometimes I have to catch myself and look around and say what the hell happened? We are definitely living in interesting times or more like we are living in a time of great transition. Not one of doom, gloom, and destruction, but more of a societal shift. To what, I can't tell.
What's so different about this year? Christmas lost its "true meaning in the eyes of many people" when non-Christians began celebrating it for commercial reasons, which has been happening for decades.
On the contrary, with money as tight as it is this year, I'm thinking many people will have to reconsider what they can do to celebrate Christmas, and whether or not that celebration will be consist mostly of material goods.
The-UselessNoob
Limp Gawd
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well he did say that his certainty was relative, what it is relative to remains to be discovered!
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- 10,915
Reminds me of the PS3 commercial with that brat bitching Grandma wont get off the PS3. All the guy says is when she was a kid she played with a wheel and a stick.
Seems like an interesting book. Will pick it up later...
Yes this is true. The classic "things were harder in my day" line applies here. But that doesn't mean we should ignore the issue. Our situation today is MUCH worse than it was back in "the day." Our national debt has grown exponentially and it continues to get worse.
So yes, every "last" generation does say this about every current generation, but our situation has also gotten worse.
The-UselessNoob
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Jun 15, 2009
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- 280
1) Raise Taxes - Politically difficult to do.
2) Lower Benefits - Very politically difficult to do because Old people determine elections, and they love their goodie bags.
3) Unexpected high growth in GPD and tax revenues - You can't bank on this. It would be like buying lottery tickets.
4) Print money - Creates inflation and problems.
just need to find someone with the balls to do what needs to be done even if it is political suicide.
or a better idea perhaps, is to encourage smoking like the ussr did at one point, because smokers were unlikely to live long enough to reap the benefits of their social security. Pity that probably won't happen, guess I am not gonna be able to get anything out of the system by the time I am old enough too.
Hate to break it to you Steve, but quoting a hyperbole ridden paragraph doesn't change the fact that kids have always, and will always, want toys and will whine about it. If you want to bitch about a generational phenomenon, focus on the one that causes every previous generation to bitch incessantly about the one younger than them, all while they completely ignore their pathetic, apathetic roles in America and the way things are falling apart, and have been for more than half a century. Of course, its always easier to blame others than it is to point your finger back at yourself for being a typical lazy American.
I mean seriously, you'd rather bitch about Europeans for protesting and standing up for their rights, than actually get off your computer chair and do something about the loss of yours. Multiply that across the populace of ignorant assholes and what do you get? Corporate America running full speed ahead, tearing down human rights left and right and destabilizing our country by influencing policy, both domestic and foreign.
All that not even mentioning the adults in this country completely lacking the knowledge of how to manage their own money and lives, so blaming kids for not learning it is just ridiculous and intellectually lazy (surprise.. surprise..
) DISCLAIMER: The "you"s refer to Americans (and primarily [H] forum posters) in general.
Is this a joke? Missing out on massive opportunity for years so you can have an empty sense of accomplishment for 10 minutes is stupid and ignorant and yet another of the ridiculous memes you people spout all the time.
Everything I have in life has been by my own accord, yet I'd give away any sense of satisfaction the tiresome grind has gotten me if someone gave me a few million dollars. There is no honor in bootstraps. There is only how happy your life is.
Yes, working for your own things is admirable, but it isn't the most important part of life by any measure. But, by all means, keep telling yourself that "living a good (yea, that's an arbitrary adjective if there ever was one), hard working life" for $15 an hour is anything but a delusional farce to make yourself feel better about your shitty life.
I'm ashamed to say I used to be like this when I was younger. I always wanted a computer... Didn't really get a usable one of my own until I was 16-17.
Its a shame you wanted technology that would have better prepared you for the future, had you had it at a younger age? Since when is staying relevant to the world a bad thing?
THIS. This is one of the most important things to teach your children.
I know you didn't mean to do it, but by wording it that way, you are still ignorantly blaming today's economic woes on children and young adults, all while completely absolving corporations, wall street, and bankers of their (majority) responsibility in the matter.
An extremely ignorant viewpoint. Most people don't have the income to even save up the $10-20K you are proposing is so simple to acquire. The fact that you are amazed that people don't have thousands and thousands of dollars sitting idle in their accounts is pretty telling to your real world experience and understanding of how regular people struggle to get by.
And, that is in addition to the college fund that all parents should feel obligated to have planned for before they birth more kids into disadvantaged lives, where they have to listen to idiots, disconnected from reality, talk about how easy success is.
Christmas isn't a Christian holiday. Thank you for spreading your typical religious ignorance. http://www.simpletoremember.com/vitals/Christmas_TheRealStory.htm
Its a pity you can't trick ignorant people into killing themselves so you can have a better retirement? Oh wow, quite the superiority complex you have there.
There seems to be a recurring theme here in this thread that is quite reflective of our country in general. For a nice demonstration, ask any random person their thoughts on their "favorite" candidate, and listen to them talk vaguely and generically about how they are the embodiment of what America needs. Then ask them specifically what they agree and disagree with about the politician and see how they have absolutely zero knowledge of their proposed policies or agenda, but allow their cognitive dissonance to whisk away any doubts or wavering support.
The problem with America, if anything, is how people always want to do things and make critical decisions (voting, policy setting, political evangelizing) based on their "gut". Just typing that reality makes me want to go puke outside out of disgust. Even I'm not as politically informed as I need to be and it shames me to know that.
Well Kristoff, I think you made some valid points, but I you also missed the mark on some others.
First of all, in general, you're making the argument that "we" keep blaming the kids, previous generations, etc. for our problems when we need to step up and take the responsibility for our mess. I think you're right, we really do need to take responsibility for being an apathetic, lazy society. We need to be more proactive in managing our money, not just saying "Oh sh*t, I just maxed out 3 credit cards and now I'm in over my head" but instead saying "Do I really need that 52" TV? Or would it be better if I saved that money for a rainy day?" And we need to instill these values in our children.
But you're argument is also hypocritical. This quote:
*The "our" and "us" references refer to all Americans.
First of all, in general, you're making the argument that "we" keep blaming the kids, previous generations, etc. for our problems when we need to step up and take the responsibility for our mess. I think you're right, we really do need to take responsibility for being an apathetic, lazy society. We need to be more proactive in managing our money, not just saying "Oh sh*t, I just maxed out 3 credit cards and now I'm in over my head" but instead saying "Do I really need that 52" TV? Or would it be better if I saved that money for a rainy day?" And we need to instill these values in our children.
But you're argument is also hypocritical. This quote:
shows that. You first talk about how we need to take responsibility, and then you say how the corporations, wall street, etc. are responsible for a majority of it. But really, isn't this just finger pointing at someone else all over? While they did take some risky business moves and entice people with debt, it's really us who actually made the decision to spend more than our means, not the corporations. Granted, they should take some responsibility, but most of it should lay squarely on our shoulders.
*The "our" and "us" references refer to all Americans.
Mr. Pedantic
[H]ard|Gawd
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2009
- Messages
- 1,707
That quotation is such a sweeping generalization. I'm definitely not like that. I don't have any consoles, I paid for my computer and all my games with my own money, I don't whine about not getting things (what's the point? It won't get you anywhere) and it makes me cringe when people say this sort of thing because it is blatantly not true.
Given half a chance, I wouldn't celebrate Christmas. It's just that given that so many of my friends are Christians, and given how we have public holidays, Christmas concerts, carols, plays, etc. it's dangerous (for want of a better term) not to get into the spirit of it lest I be called a Grinch.
QFT.
Save it. If you buy a TV, you'll have to cough up some time or later, whether it's by putting money in the bank beforehand, or making monthly repayments after. All it requires is the discipline to put money aside and not touch it.
Consumer debt did not cause this crisis. Home loans were only a small part of it. And, those home loans were rife with predatory lending. So, no, its not hypocritical at all for me to point out who is to blame. And, for you to mitigate the responsibility that these multinational corporations, who have no loyalty to any country, hold for this mess is downright disingenuous and, quite frankly, dangerous for society when so many people think that way, because it clouds the problem with unnecessary philosophizing that distracts the blame from where it belongs, and keeps lessons from being learned so they aren't repeated in the future. Wall street and the banks are already back to doing things like this never happened and are fighting tooth and nail to keep regulations away, even after the free market myth blew up in their faces. Why are they able to do this? Because people people are too busy getting their unread, coffee table, books signed by Sarah Palin and crying about fictitious death panels (while ignoring the real ones within the insurance industry) to worry about things that are actually real and relevant to the future health and prosperity of this country and its people.
Oh fuck my car broke down. Time to use up my savings. Shit! My kid broke his leg. There goes that attempt at savings. Etc. etc.
I could go on and on and explain costs of living and thresholds of when a savings cushion actually becomes a viable reality based on your income, but you refuse to acknowledge that some people would literally have to save for years or decades without fail, just to have enough money to get them through a year without work, so there is really no point in me debating this with you right now.
Some middle management guy is going to have an infinitely easier time dealing with unemployment than a non-college educated warehouse worker is. (don't anyone respond to me saying anything about how he should have gone to university or I'll stab you, right in the eye, through your monitor, The Ring-style)
Also, something else you will probably refuse to admit is that people would literally go crazy and/or spiral into maddening depression if they followed your tunnel-vision advice and never spent any money on leisurely things. Until you have lived an adult life on low wages, without hope, and without any nice things, you don't get to comment on the practicality of it, given how short sighted your ideals are. Some people literally dream of their tax refund check and how they are going to use it because money gets that scarce for them.
And, for you fiscally responsible people whining about the "poor" family driving a new car, while you are riding is a shitty old beater, remember this: You follow those principles of monetary decision based on the fact that you will live a better life then them later because of it. That is your reward. These "poor" people either do not understand that concept, they literally will never have that trade-off even if they tried, or they actually realize their reality that the trade-off for living a lifetime (no college degree, have to work multiple jobs just to make ends meet, etc.) of squalor is not worth the tiny amount of added security they may or may not need at some point in time, and will use social safety nets to combat those situations, should they occur.
Other factors go into this as well; your tolerance of unhappiness, your life circumstances, your personal social needs, your upbringing and the lessons of life you have. Being a loner nerd who has no issues living alone and without contact is a much different circumstance than someone who derives their happiness from social interaction and being, you know, human.
But, I've digressed quite a bit and I need to go take a shit, so I'll end this here.