Good 5.1 Surround system

D

dshankar

Weaksauce
Joined
Nov 25, 2007
Messages
88
Hey guys,
I'm looking to setup a nice 5.1 surround sound system that can hook up to my 360, PS3 and computer (hopefully optical?) Should I go for the ~$200 Z5500 from Logitech or the whole reciever, amp, sub, speaker deal? The less I spend on audio, the better (since my budget is already running out of control).

I pretty much a noob when it comes to audio stuff since all I've had in the past were some 2.1 Logitechs or Harmann Kardons.
 
Well if you are looking cheap, then you aren't looking for a separate receiver/speaker deal. That is quite expensive. I generally recommend people spend more than $200 on the receiver alone.

Basically I recommend sticking with computer speakers, until your budget exceeds good ones. I'd say if you are talking under $300, then stick to computer speakers. More than that and you will need to look at a receiver and speakers. You don't want to get a real cheap setup and get something worse.

If you are willing to go to maybe $400 you could look at an all-in-one receiver/speaker deal. In the $400 and up range you can probably find one that beats out computer speakers, though at the low end you'll need to be careful.

I wouldn't look at actually getting separate components until maybe the $600-800 price point. Much cheaper and you again risk getting stuff that's less quality than if you bought a package deal.

This is all assuming you want a 5.1 computer setup. More or less speakers changes the rules. The Logitech Z-5500 is a nice choice if you have other devices as it has kind of a "mini-receiver" in that it'll take multiple inputs and do DD and DTS decoding.
 
Sycraft said:
Well if you are looking cheap, then you aren't looking for a separate receiver/speaker deal. That is quite expensive. I generally recommend people spend more than $200 on the receiver alone.

Basically I recommend sticking with computer speakers, until your budget exceeds good ones. I'd say if you are talking under $300, then stick to computer speakers. More than that and you will need to look at a receiver and speakers. You don't want to get a real cheap setup and get something worse.

If you are willing to go to maybe $400 you could look at an all-in-one receiver/speaker deal. In the $400 and up range you can probably find one that beats out computer speakers, though at the low end you'll need to be careful.

I wouldn't look at actually getting separate components until maybe the $600-800 price point. Much cheaper and you again risk getting stuff that's less quality than if you bought a package deal.

This is all assuming you want a 5.1 computer setup. More or less speakers changes the rules. The Logitech Z-5500 is a nice choice if you have other devices as it has kind of a "mini-receiver" in that it'll take multiple inputs and do DD and DTS decoding.
Click to expand...

Aren't the lowend Onkyo HTIB around $300?
 
How would the Z5300e compare to the Z5500? I save at least $150 and from the looks of it, I only loose some watts (so loudness). I don't care that much about aesthetic looks either (but looks are a plus :D).

I saw a few HTIBs in the $250 - 500 range but I wasn't sure about their quality. They were all like Polks, Sanyos (or something) and some no-namers.
 
Will I really notice that distortion when watching Bluray movies, playing games, listening to music etc.? I'm not that much of an audiophile since I haven't really experienced any quality.

Do you guys recommend Bose products if I want to spend ~$800-900 totally on an audio setup? Any suggestions on Bose products (Acoustimass 6 series?) ?
 
On another note, my computer sound card is only an Audigy ZS or 2 or something like that. It's got basic 5.1 (for my old Z-530 5.1) but no X-Fi or anything fancy.

I don't think I'll upgrade that yet since I play more XBOX360/PS3 games. I want to be on the lookout for good computer sound cards as well; so would you guys recommend the Auzentechs? Or the Creative X-Fi Gamer stuff? I can't really spend more than ~$100 on a sound card.
 
hophead said:
Isnt 10% THD on the Z5500 a lot of distortion?! :confused:
Click to expand...

With speakers distortion is a function of volume. The louder you play, the higher the distortion. They simply cite the 10% level because that is getting around the maximum usable level, past that not only does it sound bad but you can start risking speaker damage. That doesn't mean the speakers are 10% at all volume levels, play them lower, they'll be less distortion. ALL speakers will hit 10% at some given power level, and all will go over 10% if pushed harder. It is just a question of what level.

As for the Z5300e, I'd say probably not. Looks like they don't do DD/DTS decoding, which you want if you are going to hook a 360 or PS3 up to the speakers and want to get surround.

As for Bose no, I never recommend Bose consumer speakers. They have speciality professional speakers that are good for certain things (their 802s are excellent speech reinforcement speakers for a lecture hall) but their consumer products are overpriced for what you get.

You are now talking a way different budget here. So first, nail down what you are willing to spend, then I can better make recommendations.
 
I'm willing to spend at most $350, preferably only ~$150-200 now and a little more over the next few months.
Is the Z5500 good in terms of bang/buck? It comes with a receiver, 5.1 surround, DD/DTS decoding, and looks/sounds pretty good.
 
dshankar said:
I'm willing to spend at most $350, preferably only ~$150-200 now and a little more over the next few months.
Is the Z5500 good in terms of bang/buck? It comes with a receiver, 5.1 surround, DD/DTS decoding, and looks/sounds pretty good.
Click to expand...

Get the z5500, you won't regret it.
 
I know it's the highest end in computer audio from Logitech. I try to stay away from the high end products just because they're usually too expensive for what they offer.

What if I wanted to spend anywhere between $400-700 (for all hardware, not including computer sound card nor cabling)? I read a few reviews of recievers on CNET. Thoughts? Is there a 'here's what you should buy for 5.1 audio' list?
 
In that range go for an all-in-one package probably. A good place to look is Costco or Sam's Club, espically since Costco at least has excellent return policies.
 
So like a HTIB? Aren't those usually pretty low quality stuff (like watercooling kits)? Wouldn't it be better to buy higher quality individual items?
 
It seems like HTIB is your best option. You won't even have to think except to remember which wire is + and -. :p

Personally, I will probably buy a cheapo HTIB when the time comes, and if I really hate it I will sell it and start buying piece by piece. But this takes a lot of research!!

I think I need to visit a Hi-Fi house to hear crisp audio, otherwise I will never have the chance to compare a $200 home theater system with a $2000+ home theater system. ;)

I'm done rambling... :)
 
dshankar said:
So like a HTIB? Aren't those usually pretty low quality stuff (like watercooling kits)? Wouldn't it be better to buy higher quality individual items?
Click to expand...

Only if you are willing to pay higher quality individual prices. The more you component things out, the more they cost. Take just a sub, for example. Yes, it is a great idea to buy a dedicated one from a company that makes good ones. I recommend and own SVS, their PC+ series is wonderful. However I spent $900 just on the subwoofer. When it comes to component audio, it is easy to exceed your entire budget on a single piece.

You generally get more for your money when you buy more integrated setups. Yes, this does come at some expense of quality, but that's life at lower budgets. Take another example in receivers. You can get a good surround receiver for like $300 and spend even less for on ok one. That device is simultaneously a decoder, input switcher, preamp, DSP and poweramp all in one.

Now suppose you wanted to component that out, suppose you wanted just a 5 channel power amp. One of the cheapest I am aware of is $700, that's the Rotel RMB-1066. You are talking over DOUBLE the price, and it is just an amp. Does none of the other features of a receiver.

Now, is it better than the amps in the receivers at that price? You bet. Lower noise, better components, etc, etc. However it is an incremental improvement in sound for a major increase in money. That's not to say it can't be worth it, it just is to say that you have to majorly step up your budget.

I just don't see much of any significant quality fitting in your stated budget if you want components. You are talking like $200 for a low end receiver (and I'd really recommend going above the low end if you are getting it separate). A low end sub is going to run you $180. Ok, we've already hit the low end of your budget and all we have is a receiver and sub. You have to go all the way to the high end, just to finish the system. Figure about $100 for a centre and $60 each for satellite speaker. You've now blown the $700 mark and you are still going to need to buy cables to hook it up which, while not that high price, are still likely to add $30-50 to the price.

Could you find cheaper stuff? Sure, but I don't know that it would be worth it. Basically I feel your price point is just too low for building a component system.

So you need to do one of three things:

1) Stick with all-in-one deals. There are plenty that are good, and generally they are designed such that you can upgrade pieces if you like.

2) Refactor your budget. I would set $800 as the realistic minimum, and probably $1000 as more the mark you should look spending.

3) Change your requirements. If you want to get just 2 channels, and expand that later, I think you can do that in your budget and get equipment that's worth it.

You have to get over this idea that buying together is a bad thing and you get more buying separate. You CAN get more buying separate, but you pay for it. My system is all separate components, dedicated amps, high quality speakers, etc. However it was really pricey, as I noted my sub alone was $900. Now that's great and you get rocking sound if you've got that kind of money to spend, but that doesn't mean it is how you do it at any price point. I love SVS, but one simply can't own an SVS sub for less than $430. Thus if your budget isn't high enough to get a $400 sub, I'm not recommending them to you. That's just life.

I'd say stick with the full theatre solutions. Look at something like the Yamaha YHT-580. Should run you about $500-550 which fits nicely in your budget and give you good sound. It also will give you the option to component swap later, all the stuff can be replaced with new components without problem.


Finally, if spending lots of money on computer sound isn't your thing, and your original post implied it wasn't, you should again consider the Logitech Z-5500. They are good sounding speakers, especially for the money, and will do what you need. They are worth their price tag if that's what you are worried about. Are they as good as a setup like the YHT-580? No, but then they are maybe half the price.

Audio is like most things in that you have to pay for quality. You need to decide on a budget that works for you, and then be ok with the choices in that budget. There's always higher end to go, no matter how much you spend, you can find better still to buy. Just decide what you are willing to spend and then look at options in that range.

If upgradable is your concern and you really are willing to spend in the $400-700 range then get an all-in-one like the YHT-580. That will allow you to swap in better speakers or a better receiver later without a problem (it is just a Yamaha receiver packaged with Yamaha speakers). The good news is once you get in to the normal home theatre market, you aren't dealing with anything proprietary. All speakers are just simple, 2-wire low impedance connections. More or less any of them work with any amp.

Just don't drive yourself crazy on this. Everyone has a budget they are willing and able to spend. Find yours, stick with it, and be happy with what you can get in that range. Don't keep trying to upsell because it never ends. I could quite easily spec a 5.1 system that costs over $500,000. It just goes crazy high and yes, at each level you hear an improvement but the returns are diminishing. $200 speakers are night and day over $20 speakers. $2000 speakers are a nice, noticeable upgrade to $200 speakers. $20,000 speakers are a fairly minor upgrade to $2000 speakers and require a good source to hear the difference.
 
Wow that last post was awesome. That should be stickied! :eek: Thank you for all that detail - I really appreciate it. I'll have to reconsider my budget (the sweet spot appears to be at the Z5500 right now). Hopefully I can make my purchases and have these by Christmas!
 
I agree dshank. Most people wouldn't help that much even if they were being paid. :D
HardForum is a gold mine of sorts!
Sycraft do you have some pictures of these amps uploaded? Just curious... :p
 
I'll share my experience.

For over 6 years I used Klipsch Promedia 4.1 speaker system which fared well and I had not much complains about it, except the missing center speaker. Finally I gave up and jumped the 5.1 bandwagon. Here's my new system:
Yamaha HTR-6030 A/V receiver ($145 silver, $180 black)
Dayton SUB-100 10" 125 Watt Powered Subwoofer ($105 at parts express)
Dayton HTS-1200B Home Theater Speaker Set Black ($85 at parts express)
Some cables from monoprice (~$30)

Boy... do I need to tell that this set literally blows my old Klipsch away?
I think that Dayton set would sound much better than Logitech or any computer speaker set for the same price. There's simply no comparable computer speaker set for this price.
 
How do you tell that it sounds better? Is it more crisp, accurate, less distortion..or what? I'm struggling to find a reason why I shoud buy a $500 setup over a $250 one (although I've decided that a $250 Z5500 is better than my old $50 Z530).
 
The Z-5300's suck. The sub blew after 2 years, and the satellites kept going one by one where the distortion was unreal. I replaced them with a 2.1 homebrew set and the sound is immensely better. I've heard the Z-5500's and have noticed the same distortion at higher levels. Guess good speakers, but I wouldn't buy any Logitech's again after owning 2 different pairs. Good luck with whatever you choose.
 
dshankar said:
How do you tell that it sounds better? Is it more crisp, accurate, less distortion..or what?
Click to expand...

I had 2 sets of speakers connected to my computer and I played some music, some games, etc. Of course it was not like comparing apples to apples: Dayton set was connected to AV receiver and the receiver was hooked using SPDIF while Klipsch was hooked using analog cables. Dayton sounds more crisp and accurate.Did not notice any distortion on both sets.
 
Sycraft said:
$20,000 speakers are a fairly minor upgrade to $2000 speakers and require a good source to hear the difference.
Click to expand...

I disagree.

And to the OP... if you want, you can get a fairly priced Onkyo HTR780 for $300 from the onkyo website. My neighbor got one from that exact place and it rocks.
 
Here's my 2 cents.

As others have mentioned, if you can set aside a higher budget - you should definitely avoid computer speakers. BUT it all really depends on your needs. Take these factors into consideration.

- How large is the room where the speakers will bet set up in?
- Are you willing to pay a premium for not so earthshattering upgrade in sound? (for non-audiophile ears anyways)
- Do you have the space for seperate receivers, speakers and etc?

From reading the posts, you definitely don't have the right budget set aside for anything other than computer speakers. I'm not sure how large the room is, but if your room isn't huge, Z-5500s would do you perfectly fine.

I initially had ordered the Z-5300s about a month ago. I just received a Z-5500 just because I couldn't resist the sale that Amazon had. Initially I had done alot of searches regarding "Z-5500 vs Z-5300" and found that alot of people didn't think it was that much of an improvement. Sure the bass is much tighter now and the mids and highs are improved. After hearing my Z-5300s for a month and now on the Z-5500s, I DO notice a big difference.

First of all the sound. I have these hooked up on my Auzentech Prelude and I do notice a much clearer sound and the bass has definitely improved. The 5300's bass was very boomy and loose.

Secondly, the inputs. I didn't think I would really benefit from the inputs and the decoding provided by the console, but I was wrong. I have my pc connected via direct analog, my HD cable connected via digital coax and my PS3 connected via optical. When I had the 5300s I had to connect my hd cable to my monitor speakers (which is actually pretty good), my ps3 directly into my prelude's optical in and I thought it sounded fine. But after hearing it through 5500's with DD decoding, I was pretty impressed. Plus most PS3 games support DD.

So from my perspective, a person that has initially bought the z-5300s then upgraded to the 5500s - if you can spare the budget, get the 5500s. Although the 5300s are definitely a bargain for the money ($50 after rebates last time i checked), it does not compare too well with the 5500s. And since you want to hook up your PS3 and other devices, 5300s are out of the question.

To get a above decent 5.1 home theater setup would cost amazingly more than the 5500s.
So stick to computer speakers for now, until you have the crazy budget to drop into a HT setup.
 
Pinipig523 said:
I disagree.

And to the OP... if you want, you can get a fairly priced Onkyo HTR780 for $300 from the onkyo website. My neighbor got one from that exact place and it rocks.
Click to expand...

I concur. Onkyo's have some badass and cheap HTIB. I forgot which model I purchased, but it is a 1000w 5.1 Onkyo system for only $150 at Fry's (it was being discontinued).

To the OP, it seems like you are really wanting to purchase a "home theater" type of setup, but with your budget, your best bet is a Onkyo HTIB or a Logitech Z-5500.

I own the Z-5500 as well, but I would not like to use it as an output for my HTPC. It is a great speaker set for gaming and music though. I consider my Z-5500 and Onkyo HTIB two of my best investments.

Check out the HTIB category at avsforum.com, the Onkyo setups are very popular among them.
 
hophead said:
I agree dshank. Most people wouldn't help that much even if they were being paid. :D
HardForum is a gold mine of sorts!
Sycraft do you have some pictures of these amps uploaded? Just curious... :p
Click to expand...

Of my amps? Sure.

amps.jpg


They just kinda sit there by the computer.

The Rotel does front speakers, the Samson rear and the AudioSource does the centre. The subwoofer has an internal Indigo amp.
 
enyceexdanny said:
Here's my 2 cents.

As others have mentioned, if you can set aside a higher budget - you should definitely avoid computer speakers. BUT it all really depends on your needs. Take these factors into consideration.

- How large is the room where the speakers will bet set up in?
- Are you willing to pay a premium for not so earthshattering upgrade in sound? (for non-audiophile ears anyways)
- Do you have the space for seperate receivers, speakers and etc?

From reading the posts, you definitely don't have the right budget set aside for anything other than computer speakers. I'm not sure how large the room is, but if your room isn't huge, Z-5500s would do you perfectly fine.

I initially had ordered the Z-5300s about a month ago. I just received a Z-5500 just because I couldn't resist the sale that Amazon had. Initially I had done alot of searches regarding "Z-5500 vs Z-5300" and found that alot of people didn't think it was that much of an improvement. Sure the bass is much tighter now and the mids and highs are improved. After hearing my Z-5300s for a month and now on the Z-5500s, I DO notice a big difference.

First of all the sound. I have these hooked up on my Auzentech Prelude and I do notice a much clearer sound and the bass has definitely improved. The 5300's bass was very boomy and loose.

Secondly, the inputs. I didn't think I would really benefit from the inputs and the decoding provided by the console, but I was wrong. I have my pc connected via direct analog, my HD cable connected via digital coax and my PS3 connected via optical. When I had the 5300s I had to connect my hd cable to my monitor speakers (which is actually pretty good), my ps3 directly into my prelude's optical in and I thought it sounded fine. But after hearing it through 5500's with DD decoding, I was pretty impressed. Plus most PS3 games support DD.

So from my perspective, a person that has initially bought the z-5300s then upgraded to the 5500s - if you can spare the budget, get the 5500s. Although the 5300s are definitely a bargain for the money ($50 after rebates last time i checked), it does not compare too well with the 5500s. And since you want to hook up your PS3 and other devices, 5300s are out of the question.

To get a above decent 5.1 home theater setup would cost amazingly more than the 5500s.
So stick to computer speakers for now, until you have the crazy budget to drop into a HT setup.
Click to expand...

My room is quite large and empty (for now). It has a massive wood L-shaped computer desk, a chaisse, and a futon/couch. I plan on wallmounting my 46" Samsung LCD 1080p monitor and I have 2 24" monitors on my desk. I also have about 3 full-tower cases but one will be on top of my desk and two will be underneath the desk to save space.
QUESTION: I'm not sure how to plan my speakers either. I play most of my games on my 360 (so TV) so it make sense to centralize the speakers around the TV.
QUESTION: What are your opinions on the Onkyo HT-SR 800? http://www.onkyousa.com/model.cfm?class=Systems&m=HT-SR800&p=i
I can get it for $450 at my local Circuit City. Is it the best for my money ($450) ?
 
I just spent some time browsing avsforum, cnet etc. and I found that the Onkyo HT-SR800 is actually a really nice system for its price. Comments? Yes/No?
 
Alright I'm consider buying the Bose Lifestyle V20 for $2000. I know it's a step up but I really want a Bose system. Comments?
 
dshankar said:
Alright I'm consider buying the Bose Lifestyle V20 for $2000. I know it's a step up but I really want a Bose system. Comments?
Click to expand...

You really want a Bose system?

My comment is that you REALLY need to research that one again. If I was spending $2000 not one cent would go towards Bose.

FFS man DON'T DO IT!
 
I know but I went to Circuit City today and listened to the Bose V20 and the Onkyo HT-SR800. The Onkyo sounded terrible when cranked up but the Bose was really crisp. And the plus side is that the Bose upscales to 1080p, has sufficient inputs, what not what not.
Unless the product is that bad, I think I'll be going with the Bose. I know they make quality products (although it may be 4x more expensive).
 
dshankar said:
I know but I went to Circuit City today and listened to the Bose V20 and the Onkyo HT-SR800. The Onkyo sounded terrible when cranked up but the Bose was really crisp. And the plus side is that the Bose upscales to 1080p, has sufficient inputs, what not what not.
Unless the product is that bad, I think I'll be going with the Bose. I know they make quality products (although it may be 4x more expensive).
Click to expand...

Wow with $2000....you can also have a very good custom setup that will leave the Bose in the dust. You're comparing a $2000 setup to a $400 setup. Onkyo's HTIB have a very good receiver, but their packaged speakers are so-so.
 
Well it was my Dad's life-long dream to have a Bose surround sound system and I kinda want do something for him.
 
I remember when I was inside PC Richards store yesterday and a salesman was pitching a $2000 Bose system to an unsuspecting guy who eventually bought it, along with $100 Monster speaker cables.

I've never seen a guy so duped by brand and marketing before but I regretfully didn't say anything to the guy who was buying it. Don't pay $2000 for Bose, for that money you can get something much better. Go start a thread in avsforum with your budget and I'm sure they can piece something together that will blow that Bose system out of the water.
 
Man I didn't expect an HT audio setup to be this complicated...

How are Apterion speakers? I read a few positive reviews about. Maybe I can get two Apterion R/L towers, an Apterion center, two Apterion rear bookshelves, and that nice 5300ES Sony receiver?

But my Dad and Bose..:(

:confused:
 
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