Gigabyte 6970 or MSI Lightning

tubular

Gawd
Joined
Apr 10, 2008
Messages
982
If you like over-clocking, go with MSI. It has voltage support which allows you to get the most out of the card. I haven't heard of anyone who's gotten one regretting it.

The Gigabyte card(I have the same one BTW) doesn't have any kind of voltage control. But it's cooling solution is great, keeping temps low while making very little noise. When dealing with two cards, the quieter solution could become that much more important(if noise bothers you).
 
If you like over-clocking, go with MSI. It has voltage support which allows you to get the most out of the card. I haven't heard of anyone who's gotten one regretting it.

The Gigabyte card(I have the same one BTW) doesn't have any kind of voltage control. But it's cooling solution is great, keeping temps low while making very little noise. When dealing with two cards, the quieter solution could become that much more important(if noise bothers you).

Do you have the older Gigabyte or this brand new one? The older one came with a stock core clock of 900 instead of 920, and the heatsink has changed a little.

As to the overclocking, I really don't do a whole lot of OC'ing on the GPU, if any.
The Gigabyte is actually quiet? I figured it would be noisier with 3 fans. I would really like to have a quieter GPU.

How much heat does the card kick out into your system, compared to how much it vents out the back?
 
I vote for the MSI Lightning. It doesn't only have a fancy cooler it has a special design to allow it to overclock better.
 
Do you have the older Gigabyte or this brand new one? The older one came with a stock core clock of 900 instead of 920, and the heatsink has changed a little.

As to the overclocking, I really don't do a whole lot of OC'ing on the GPU, if any.
The Gigabyte is actually quiet? I figured it would be noisier with 3 fans. I would really like to have a quieter GPU.

How much heat does the card kick out into your system, compared to how much it vents out the back?

I have the older one, but with some searching any changes in the heatsink and fan is minor and should make it a bit more efficient. And the Windforce 3X cooler is extremely quiet with the fan set at anything less than 65%. At that speed, even Furmark couldn't raise my temps past 68c and the most demanding game, Crysis modded, doesn't go past 64c with ambient temps of 22c.

And even the fact that it dumps almost all(some still goes out the backplate, maybe 20%) the heat back into the case hasn't caused me any issues. My CPU and Motherboard temps haven't gotten any higher during a GPU load compared to my old 5870 reference card(expelled all hot air out the back of the case).
 
Ya I figure that the new 'design' really isn't much of a change. I do really like that the fan is much quieter. Currently I have to set the fans on both of my 6950's to 65% just to keep the temps under 80C (during metro), and that is at stock.

Are there any more benefits to using the Lightning? Eventually I will be going triple monitor, and I would like to use display ports. I've read about some issues if you do triple monitor but don't us all display ports or all DVI.

Is this something I should consider?
 
Well I might go the MSI or Powercolor route if the triple monitor setup with only 2 display ports will be giving me any issues.

Any word on this from anybody?
 
I hear the Gigabyte fans spin pretty slowly. And also the MSI looks WAY sexier in my opinion. ;D
 
MSI is the highest quality made.

How so? Do they have a significantly lower failure rate?

Also, do you know what their customer service is like? I want to make sure I make the right decision with my $750ish dollars
 
Important question, how much of its heat does the MSI dump out the back, as opposed to in the case?
 
MSI is the highest quality made.

How are they any better than other cards?

Owning a Powercolor pcs+ 6970, I can say that I can run the fans at 50%, and it's pretty quiet. Try doing that with a stock cooler...My 5850s sounded like a vacuum cleaner at 50%. Plus you also get a pretty much maxed out overclock, unless you go the watercooling route and pump up the voltage I'd think.
 
How are they any better than other cards?

Owning a Powercolor pcs+ 6970, I can say that I can run the fans at 50%, and it's pretty quiet. Try doing that with a stock cooler...My 5850s sounded like a vacuum cleaner at 50%. Plus you also get a pretty much maxed out overclock, unless you go the watercooling route and pump up the voltage I'd think.

That's a very easy question to answer. The cooler is all everyone in here seems to be focussing on. Too much narrow mindedness if you ask me. The MSI lightning has the twin frozr 3 which is a very kick ass cooler probably as good if not almost as good as the cooler on the powercolor or the saphire discussed here.

However...

The MSI Lightning is a custom designed card from the ground up by MSI using military grade 2 components including a custom 18 phase PWM. Overclocking results on this card show it to be the champion of 6970s as it's hit over 1100mhz 6000mhz ram no problem. Here they didn't really push the overclock but they still got decent numbers from their sample. Check for other reviews online for more info and overclocking results.

Here is a quote from the hardocp article where they reviewed it.
Originally posted by [H]ardOCP

As a part of MSI's Lightning family, the R6970 Lightning is not your grandpa's Radeon HD 6970. It has a nice custom cooling device, and a custom PCB with some advanced features and high-end components. It features an 18-phase PWM, allowing more power to flow to the GPU and finer control over how much power the GPU receives. It boasts MSI's "Military Class II" feature set, which includes solid ferrite chokes to improve power regulation efficiency and reduce noise, Hi-C tantalum Capacitors to also improve power regulation efficiency and increase the serviceable lifetime of the video card, and solid Capacitors for the memory power circuits to extend the video card's life cycle.

I personally don't think a 6970 is worth the price premium over a unlockable 6950, however the MSI Lightning is the only 6970 that gives me envy and makes me want to sell my 2 6970 overclocked (6950s) and get them instead.
 
Exodia, I know that the MSI card is great for overclocking. I do not care about overclocking. I care about cooling. My system gets hot, my two 6950's that I have in it right now get too hot for comfort. That is why I am looking at different cards.

Now what I DO care about is build quality, temp control of the cooler, efficiency, and customer care/service of the company that builds the cards. Also what is very important is that I will be able to pull of a triple monitor display without a problem, using the display ports if possible. I will be doing crossfire with this setup, and the MSI will give me 4 display ports, which is great. The Gigabyte, which is cheaper and apparently runs about as cool as the MSI, gives me only 2. I have heard of banding issues if you use 2 display ports and a DVI port for a triple monitor setup. I would need to avoid this.

What I am trying to determine in this thread is if the price premium of the MSI cards will justify me purchasing it over the Gigabyte, or if the Gigabyte should do me just fine.

I would rather keep my current two 6950's, however them getting into the mid 90 C range if I do not manually control their fan speeds up to about 65%+ is worrisome to me. I do not have the best circulation in my case through no fault of my own, and I live in the hottest room of my house, so I need to cool those beasts down. I looked into another cooler on the 6950's but they are all around $60-70, which puts me at the price of the Gigabyte anyways (I can still return the 6950's for a full refund). So unless I can get some sort of awesome cooling solution for my two HIS 6950's that is less than $140 for BOTH cards, I will need to be upgrading to something with a better cooler.
 
That's a very easy question to answer. The cooler is all everyone in here seems to be focussing on. Too much narrow mindedness if you ask me. The MSI lightning has the twin frozr 3 which is a very kick ass cooler probably as good if not almost as good as the cooler on the powercolor or the saphire discussed here.

However...

The MSI Lightning is a custom designed card from the ground up by MSI using military grade 2 components including a custom 18 phase PWM. Overclocking results on this card show it to be the champion of 6970s as it's hit over 1100mhz 6000mhz ram no problem. Here they didn't really push the overclock but they still got decent numbers from their sample. Check for other reviews online for more info and overclocking results.

I personally don't think a 6970 is worth the price premium over a unlockable 6950, however the MSI Lightning is the only 6970 that gives me envy and makes me want to sell my 2 6970 overclocked (6950s) and get them instead.

Ok I can certainly agree on the cooler part. However while I do not doubt the HardOCP review, I do question though being able to overclock an already overclocked card with an increased memory voltage, and have it survive long term. The extra heat probably does not help either, but I suppose with the upgraded coolers this might not be an issue.

In either case, stock for stock (keep in mind both cards are OCd from the factory), here are the specs for each:

MSI R6970 Lightning Radeon HD 6970
Core Clock
940MHz
Memory
Effective Memory Clock
1375MHz (5.5Gbps)

PowerColor PCS+ AX6970
Core Clock
940MHz
Memory
Effective Memory Clock
1425MHz (5.7Gbps)

The PowerColor PCS+ is around $10 cheaper, and comes with a faster memory clock from the factory. Cons I'd say is that there is not much headroom left for OCing if any. So if you are dead set on overlocking, you might be better off with the MSI.

I also know from reviews that the PowerColor comes with a different voltage controller, but I have no idea if that makes a difference or not. The one advantage I can think of though is that @ newegg, MSI is currently not in stock, while the PowerColor PCS+ is in stock (and a bit cheaper atm). If you have no plans in overclocking, I recommend the PowerColor over the MSI.
 
If you have no plans in overclocking, I recommend the PowerColor over the MSI.

How about the PowerColor over the Gigabyte? The increase of 20mhz on the cpu and a bit on the memory doesn't necessarily make a huge difference to me. Is the powercolor more reliable than the Gigabyte (long term)? Will the cooling keep it cooler? What about power and noise levels?

Again, I probably won't be OC'ing any card I get (unless I got a low cost heat solution for my 6950's, in which case I'd be flashing and OC'ing a bit)
 
Exodia, I know that the MSI card is great for overclocking. I do not care about overclocking. I care about cooling. My system gets hot, my two 6950's that I have in it right now get too hot for comfort. That is why I am looking at different cards.

Now what I DO care about is build quality, temp control of the cooler, efficiency, and customer care/service of the company that builds the cards. Also what is very important is that I will be able to pull of a triple monitor display without a problem, using the display ports if possible. I will be doing crossfire with this setup, and the MSI will give me 4 display ports, which is great. The Gigabyte, which is cheaper and apparently runs about as cool as the MSI, gives me only 2. I have heard of banding issues if you use 2 display ports and a DVI port for a triple monitor setup. I would need to avoid this.

What I am trying to determine in this thread is if the price premium of the MSI cards will justify me purchasing it over the Gigabyte, or if the Gigabyte should do me just fine.

I would rather keep my current two 6950's, however them getting into the mid 90 C range if I do not manually control their fan speeds up to about 65%+ is worrisome to me. I do not have the best circulation in my case through no fault of my own, and I live in the hottest room of my house, so I need to cool those beasts down. I looked into another cooler on the 6950's but they are all around $60-70, which puts me at the price of the Gigabyte anyways (I can still return the 6950's for a full refund). So unless I can get some sort of awesome cooling solution for my two HIS 6950's that is less than $140 for BOTH cards, I will need to be upgrading to something with a better cooler.

If you are having heat issues with the 6950s, I think you need to try and improve the airflow inside your case, instead of shelling out more money for cards that put out more heat. Yes the non-reference coolers will probably help, but I think you will run into problems.

My 6970 does not go above 70c with the fans @ 50%. I do have a 120MM side fan blowing on it though which helps.


How about the PowerColor over the Gigabyte? The increase of 20mhz on the cpu and a bit on the memory doesn't necessarily make a huge difference to me. Is the powercolor more reliable than the Gigabyte (long term)? Will the cooling keep it cooler? What about power and noise levels?

Again, I probably won't be OC'ing any card I get (unless I got a low cost heat solution for my 6950's, in which case I'd be flashing and OC'ing a bit)

Heres a review for the PowerColor: http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Powercolor/HD_6970_PCS_Plus/1.html

I don't know which card is more reliable, but the heatpipe cooler on this thing keeps it pretty cool (as far as video cards go). I'd still recommend either MSI or PowerColor over the Gigabyte, at least for the increased clocks and extra performance.
 
MSI, the build quality is awesome on their 500 series cards. Read the HardOCP article (and MSI's marketing speak) about the "military grade" components. High quality materials + good cooler = cards run cooler and better clocks. I wouldn't care about $10 and tiny memory clock difference when you are shelling out that much.
 
MSI, the build quality is awesome on their 500 series cards. Read the HardOCP article (and MSI's marketing speak) about the "military grade" components. High quality materials + good cooler = cards run cooler and better clocks. I wouldn't care about $10 and tiny memory clock difference when you are shelling out that much.

Exactly, instead of using the cheap reference parts the MSI card is built to last. That to me is worth the price difference alone. Then throw in the fact that the card has a 18pwm design that will improve overclocking and stability over any reference card simply because it's built with overclocking and oc stability in mind make me want a pair :p
 
Well, to update you all, I ended up going with two MSI R6950 Twin Frozr III
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127575

All that talk of better made components won me over. And this way it is cheaper, and if I REALLY want to I can always OC it quite a bit, as it looks like the card OC's rather well.

Nice!! I see a bios switch on that card so you should be able to unlock it easily. It is however missing the 18 phase PWM design exclusive to the lightning series but the uber high quality components it does have. Congrats.
 
Nice!! I see a bios switch on that card so you should be able to unlock it easily. It is however missing the 18 phase PWM design exclusive to the lightning series but the uber high quality components it does have. Congrats.

I dont think MSI 6950 Twin Frozr is unlockable unlike reference 6950.
 
I don't believe the card is unlockable, but that is a trade I was willing to make for the better heatsink and higher quality components
 
I dont think MSI 6950 Twin Frozr is unlockable unlike reference 6950.

I don't believe the card is unlockable, but that is a trade I was willing to make for the better heatsink and higher quality components

There is a new way to unlock the shaders thanks to the new version of RBE. You simply backup your bios from your card and then create a new bios in RBE using that backed up bios and adding a check for unlock 6970 shaders. Save bios and then flash it onto your card. Many people have had great success with this new method and are unlocking cards once though unlockable.
 
I'm willing to pay the extra money to get a full 6970 then buying two 6950's and hoping it works. Regardless of the high chance of getting a successful unlock. I like to play it safe. I like the cooler on the lightning and noise is a concern for me.

Would I need custom waterblocks to eventually watercool a 6970 lightening you think?
 
Two 6970's in crossfire vs two 6950's give an average of like 2-7 fps more on most games. Honestly, not worth the extra money in my mind.
 
There is a new way to unlock the shaders thanks to the new version of RBE. You simply backup your bios from your card and then create a new bios in RBE using that backed up bios and adding a check for unlock 6970 shaders. Save bios and then flash it onto your card. Many people have had great success with this new method and are unlocking cards once though unlockable.

Can you tell me any more about this method? Any more details I should know? The new cards are coming in tomorrow and I want to be prepared :)
 
Can you tell me any more about this method? Any more details I should know? The new cards are coming in tomorrow and I want to be prepared :)

Most of the info is here http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=269626 this was a thread started by a forum member that visits here too named bababooey after howard sterns right hand man.

Essentially you will

1 back up the bios that comes on your 6950 (name it e.g. backupbios.rom)
2.download/install radeon bios editor (rbe) v 128 or newer
3 Open RBE
4. Load that bios you backed up
5 in the additional features tab you will click the 6970 shader count and then save that new bios (name it e.g. newbios.rom)
6 use rbe to flash the newbios.rom onto the cards secondary bios.

People are now unlocking 1GB 6950s and many other aftermarket cards with this method. It should be safe because you have the primary bios to fall back on if there is a problem, you could always flash the backupbios.rom back onto the cards secondary bios. Finally your also not changing any voltages, clocks, memory speed or anything. It's the default bios with that small modification.
 
Exactly, instead of using the cheap reference parts the MSI card is built to last. That to me is worth the price difference alone. Then throw in the fact that the card has a 18pwm design that will improve overclocking and stability over any reference card simply because it's built with overclocking and oc stability in mind make me want a pair :p

LOL, the Gigabyte has three, count them on the back three, NEC Tokin power stabilizers, and I didn't count, but at least a dozen power phases. That's not meager by my standards.

BTW, go find out what Ultra Durable is too. It's similar to the 'military class hardware' that MSI touts.

In other words, I'm saying that I regard Gigabyte with as high as, if not higher build quality than MSI. Not to say that MSI is bad, but Gigabyte knows its shit.
 
LOL, the Gigabyte has three, count them on the back three, NEC Tokin power stabilizers, and I didn't count, but at least a dozen power phases. That's not meager by my standards.

BTW, go find out what Ultra Durable is too. It's similar to the 'military class hardware' that MSI touts.

In other words, I'm saying that I regard Gigabyte with as high as, if not higher build quality than MSI. Not to say that MSI is bad, but Gigabyte knows its shit.

I'm familiar with Gigabyte's ultra durable cards I honestly overlooked that the gigabyte card linked was the ultra durable series, I though it was this one http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3784#ov which is basically a reference card with a windforce cooler and a gold plated hdmi, However military grade 2 & MSI's full feature set > Gigabytes Ultra Durable IMO
 
I'm familiar with Gigabyte's ultra durable cards I honestly overlooked that the gigabyte card linked was the ultra durable series, I though it was this one http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=3784#ov which is basically a reference card with a windforce cooler and a gold plated hdmi, However military grade 2 > Japanese Solid Caps IMO

Yeah, it was an easy oversight, and sorry I got so riled up over it. :eek: :confused:

I'll have to find out about this 'military grade 2' you speak of...

*googles*
 
Most of the info is here http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=269626 this was a thread started by a forum member that visits here too named bababooey after howard sterns right hand man.

Essentially you will

1 back up the bios that comes on your 6950 (name it e.g. backupbios.rom)
2.download/install radeon bios editor (rbe) v 128 or newer
3 Open RBE
4. Load that bios you backed up
5 in the additional features tab you will click the 6970 shader count and then save that new bios (name it e.g. newbios.rom)
6 use rbe to flash the newbios.rom onto the cards secondary bios.

People are now unlocking 1GB 6950s and many other aftermarket cards with this method. It should be safe because you have the primary bios to fall back on if there is a problem, you could always flash the backupbios.rom back onto the cards secondary bios. Finally your also not changing any voltages, clocks, memory speed or anything. It's the default bios with that small modification.

Thanks for the great info and the link, however after reading some newegg reviews it looks like the card might not actually have a dual bios, which is strange
 
Thanks for the great info and the link, however after reading some newegg reviews it looks like the card might not actually have a dual bios, which is strange

Images could be wrong, as they could have changed the design, but the twin frozer 3 is pretty new, however if you go to your link and click on the images below the card, it'll open 6 images. The one in the middle of the bottom row 100% shows a bios switch on the card. If you zoom in and move to the right you'll see it there. Anyway it should be arriving today or tomorrow, you did order it a few days ago. I'm surprised it's not there already. Did newegg offer cross desert camel back shipping with this one? :D

This pic (only zoom in)
14-127-575-Z05
 
Two 6970's in crossfire vs two 6950's give an average of like 2-7 fps more on most games. Honestly, not worth the extra money in my mind.

Where did you get those numbers, I'd like to read the review if it's from a site.
 
Back
Top