General Watercooling Questions

[EQTakeOffense]

I'm just about finishing my current build, it's only the second computer I've build. The first was just all stock, the second is high-end air cooling, and now the third I want to be water cooling.

I want to have everything water cooled, GPU, CPU, Hard Drives. Everything. So, here my questions to begin...

1. How many loops is generally used and how many radiators on the loops?

2. Does tube sizing really affect flow/temps much? Will I notice much temperature differences between 1/4" 3/8" or 1/2" tubing?

3. Is it bad to split tubbing from say 1/2" to 2 1/4"?

 

[Arcygenical]

If you're cooling your HD, CPU, NB and 1 GPU... I'd consider a cheaper 360mm rad, or a good 240mm rad (so, a BIP360 or a thermochill PA 240)

Tubing size really DOESN'T make that much of a difference in your overall temperatures, restriction does, however. Converting between 1/2 and 1/4" tubing will really hinder your temperatures.

1 loop. 1 radiator, unless you need to split up your radiators due to scize reasons (ie, you can't fit a 360 at the top of your case).

Splitting a 1/2" tube to 2 1/4" tubes should be OK. But, remember that like electricity, water will take the path of least resistance. If a block on one of your 1/4" tubes is more restrictive than the other, you're not going to get balanced flow.

Also, If you're thinking of cooling your RAM and HD... I wouldn't... It's totally not needed, reduces your overall performance, and costs money. It's your decision, though...

 

[EQTakeOffense]

1 loop. 1 radiator, unless you need to split up your radiators due to scize reasons (ie, you can't fit a 360 at the top of your case).

The only thing is, what is the average temperature increase between components?

Like, using one loop would be the ideal solution, but how does it affect temps?

Say, something like...

Res -> Pump -> CPU -> GPU 1 -> GPU 2 -> NB -> RAM -> HD

How much will the temps increase between components? That's really my main concern with using one loop is the temperature increases between components.

 

[decade146]

after getting a better radiator, and lapping my waterblocks, 3/8" to 1/2" OD tubing, i have a 10C drop. Currently at 26C idle. It's not "bad" but If you're really an enthusiast then i wouldn't recommend going from a larger to a smaller tube in the same loop because you'll be a few degress higher.

Try avoiding cooling RAM, Hard Drives, and GPU because it will add on a lot of heat. Your mane focus should be on the CPU because you will be getting significantly higher performance. The heat will be affecting your components alltogether, my guess is 15C unless you have one badass radiator.

 

[malicious]

cpu and gpu are the only two that really need to be watercooled ...

7/16ths on 1/2 barbs is where it's at for me...

 

[EQTakeOffense]

cpu and gpu are the only two that really need to be watercooled ...

Yeah, I understand that. I want to do this, just because I can, lol. I have my next project in my mind, and I view it as a challenge. What would be the fun in doing the 'easy' thing and just water cooling the GPU/CPU? Everyone that does water cooling does that, it's easy. I want something challenging which is:

All top of the line PC components (possible dual CPU if 4X4 kicks ass)
Every component that has a fan to be replaced by a water block
Minimal noise
As high end performance as money can buy
Aesthetically pleasing to the eye with as much as possible internally mounted

Now THERE is a challenge, lol.

Try avoiding cooling RAM, Hard Drives, and GPU because it will add on a lot of heat.

That's my man concern: putting too many heat-dumping components on the same loop. I mean, I don't think it's smart to put 1 CPU and 2 GPU's on the same loop. But, is it safe to put 1 CPU on one loop and then 2 GPU's on another loop with the HD/RAM/NB/SB on a separate loops?

What I'm thinking is a total of four loops.

Loop 1: GPU 1 & GPU 2 (Dual 120mm Active Rad)
Loop 2: CPU 1 (Tripple 120mm Active Rad)
Loop 3: HD/RAM (Single 120mm Active Rad)
Loop 4: NB/SB (Single 120mm Active Rad)

What I don't know is the rads I'm currently thinking about are 'big' enough for their respective loops, or if I could perhaps combine them into less loops with bigger rads?

 

[Arcygenical]

Well then, if I were you I'd get a 1/2" (7/16" ) loop going for the GPU and CPU, and have that on a 220 radiator... Then get a small bore loop... 3/8 or 1/4 for the NB, HD, Ram etc with it's own dedicated 120mm rad. 4 Loops? Overkill... REALLY EXPENSIVE, and just plain not needed. You will see NO performance difference between your 4 loops and my 2 loops!

It's safe to put 1 CPU and 2 GPU's in the same loop, as long as your radiator can handle it.


And... What's this about avoiding cooling the GPU? Most radiators can handle up to at LEAST 300w of heat (240 and 360s)... 2 GPU's alone put out just over 200. So yeah, it eats up a bit of your cooling headroom... but having 60w of heat (CPU's heat) or 260w of heat (GPU + 2gpu) in your loop will make no difference... It's STILL being cooled down by a radiator capable of more than the total heat source.

Yeah, your CPU temp might be 1-2'c higher with gpu's... but DAMN is it worth it.

 

[EQTakeOffense]

And... What's this about avoiding cooling the GPU? Most radiators can handle up to at LEAST 300w of heat (240 and 360s)... 2 GPU's alone put out just over 200. So yeah, it eats up a bit of your cooling headroom... but having 60w of heat (CPU's heat) or 260w of heat (GPU + 2gpu) in your loop will make no difference... It's STILL being cooled down by a radiator capable of more than the total heat source.

So, lol, I did some calculations, and water is freakin' awesome! Thanks for your help and imput =)

I answered my main concern doing my calculations that the temp between components will generally be small, perhapses 1-2 degrees at most, and the flow rate has much more to do with this then anything else.

 

[Arcygenical]

Flow rate isn't as important as head pressure for most modern waterblocks...


The Storm and the MCW60 (AWESOME blocks btw) need head pressure more than flow (although flowrate and head seem to go hand in hand... really).


Glad you got it sorted out. Just... for comparison, I have a volt modded 7800GT, Conroe at 3.5ghz and my nb all in one loop (until I got my GTS hehe) and my load temp for the CPU was still under 45'c.

 

[DryFire]

Water cooling your ram may be ridiculous, but if you're going for a quiet computer water cooling your HD's may not be, especially if you value your data (HD last longer when they run at cooler temps).

7/16" ID tubing works very nicely as it's easy to route, fits securely over 1/2" barbs and is cheap (30 cents/ft at mcmaster.com).

 

[malicious]

www.mcmaster.com

 

[Mysterae]

Yeah, I understand that. I want to do this, just because I can, lol. I have my next project in my mind, and I view it as a challenge. What would be the fun in doing the 'easy' thing and just water cooling the GPU/CPU? Everyone that does water cooling does that, it's easy. I want something challenging which is:

All top of the line PC components (possible dual CPU if 4X4 kicks ass)
Every component that has a fan to be replaced by a water block
Minimal noise
As high end performance as money can buy
Aesthetically pleasing to the eye with as much as possible internally mounted

Now THERE is a challenge, lol.

I like your thinking!

I did something simillar when many folk said don't bother, you won't gain much. In many ways they were correct (listen to the wisdom that is here), as my temps aren't outstanding. But the system is overclocked, stable and above all quiet. I accomplished what I set out to do.

This is most probably different from what you want to accomplish, but these temps should give you a fair idea of what to expect with so much heat/components in your system.

Air Cooling

Water Cooling (excluding hard drives)

Note the ambient temps in both, this was recorded ages ago in the summer.

Also bear in mind that the larger the tubing size (and the more) you use, the harder and messier it will be in your case. Using larger tubing wasn't an option for me.

Good luck!

 

[EQTakeOffense]

Mysterae, I love you

I'm gonna do it differently then you, and have 2 loops instead of one. I don't like the idea of having everything go through 1 240 Radiator... Seems like too much heat for all that, which would be why your temps weren't spectacular.

I do have a question for you: was there any issue is using one res? The only issue I could foresee is different flow rates causing the water level in the res to fluctuate. Although, I assume that just putting the water level above the highest outtake would solve this problem?

 

[Mysterae]

Mysterae, I love you

Steady!

I'm gonna do it differently then you, and have 2 loops instead of one. I don't like the idea of having everything go through 1 240 Radiator... Seems like too much heat for all that, which would be why your temps weren't spectacular.

I thought about another rad, but everything is fine with one. The cpu & gpu's are as high as they can go overclocking-wise, and temps are within spec.

I do have a question for you: was there any issue is using one res? The only issue I could foresee is different flow rates causing the water level in the res to fluctuate. Although, I assume that just putting the water level above the highest outtake would solve this problem?

Different flow rates weren't a problem. The biggest problem was turbulence from the returns making bubbles in the res - kills performance, is noisey and can harm pumps. Making the water level in the res higher than the returns killed the splashing and also stops 'flow back' for want of a better term. I had this flow back only when the pumps were just switched off, as gravity pushed the water down the higher tubing paths, and lifted it in the lower paths, the water finding a level. Placing the res at the highest point and it's water level high solved this.