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Gateway FPD2485W - 24" HD LCD
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wasteomind
Gawd
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- Aug 13, 2004
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ok I just ran the Prad.de test on my Jan 07 MGQ71 monitor I've been complaining about ghosting on.
The inverted ghosting, and the amount of it is just stupid.
I'm 99% sure I'll be returning this monitor, but I'm on the fence about what to do here.
Do I try to exchange it for another MGQ71 and hope that one doesn't have these issue?
Do I try to exchange it for an earlier model? Say a DEC or NOV pannel?
Or do I just say fk it and get a 22" instead?
I'm a heavy gamer, video editor, I do some 3d modeling, and frankly this ghosting is just unacceptable.
Any advice welcome.
The inverted ghosting, and the amount of it is just stupid.
I'm 99% sure I'll be returning this monitor, but I'm on the fence about what to do here.
Do I try to exchange it for another MGQ71 and hope that one doesn't have these issue?
Do I try to exchange it for an earlier model? Say a DEC or NOV pannel?
Or do I just say fk it and get a 22" instead?
I'm a heavy gamer, video editor, I do some 3d modeling, and frankly this ghosting is just unacceptable.
Any advice welcome.
On my NOV2006 model, about 3/4 of the dvd movies I play through component 2 (using either a stand-alone dvd player or a PlayStation 2) results in unacceptable flicker. The other 1/4 of the dvd movies play fine, and PS2 games play fine though component 2.
If I connect the DVD or PS2 through Component 1, the same movies that flickered through Component 2 will display appropriately without flicker HOWEVER the quality from Component 1 is awful (the video display is darker, grainier and less sharp, even after adjusting the monitor settings).
I've resorted to playing dvds through my laptop, which is connected to the monitor via the VGA port. One thing I learned with the laptop/dvd playback setup is that I have to crank down the screen resolution from 1900x1200 to 1280x768. Viewing dvd movies via the laptop at the higher resolution resulted in a lot of jaggies.
I am NOT happy with the component connectors, what's the point of these extra hookups if they suck? I've lowered my expectations about this monitor's versatility. Despite this, I'm keeping the monitor because I am happy with most of the monitor's other features for my purposes (eg. I often pivot to vertical mode for reading/editing purposes).
If it bothers you that much I really doubt another model is going to be any better. I game and browse and find the monitor exceptional, however some people are more sensitive to issues like ghosting etc so my advice to you, after owning 4 Gateways myself, is to get another monitor. I really don't think going through another return is going to yield you any better results if it is really a stand out issue.
Ya, you might as well take advantage of the ability to easily exchange a monitor (or receive a credit for the return in this calender year) while you can. The other options would be to spend a bit more on the BenQ from NCIX (less complaints about ghosting, but its still there
), or roll the dice and take your chances on a Dell Rev. A04 (some guy recently put an order in for 45 units and it came back something like 60% A04s). Just know going in that exchanging/swapping the units if they don't suit you is going to be a MUCH bigger pain in the ass than driving to BB and waiting in line for 5 minutes. I came from that situation and the good news is, I finally received my first credit 35 calendar days after I returned the monitor. But honestly, if ghosting is such a big issue for you, I'm not sure any current LCD will make you happy. If you're into video editing, I doubt you'll be happy with a TN. I've heard better things about some of the other TN panels, but I couldn't stand to look at the 22" Dell after 2 days. The 2407 A03 didn't have as much smearing as the Gateway, it was a ghosting/lag/huge mess of a different type. The only one I haven't tried out first hand is the BenQ, but from what I've read it has is own problems as well (including ghosting). Idk, I guess people expect too much or some things are more/less bearable than others for some people. I just weighed the pros vs. the cons and the pros of this panel far outweigh the cons for me, so I'm happy.
wasteomind
Gawd
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2004
- Messages
- 522
Its not exactly the fact that it ghosts that is the problem.
Its the colors that it does ghost. They seem to be much much darker than the colors they trail, making them stand out a ridiculous amount.
My old LCD ghosted a bit, but the colors it trailed closely resembled the colors they oringated from. So it was a lot more bareable.
Its the colors that it does ghost. They seem to be much much darker than the colors they trail, making them stand out a ridiculous amount.
My old LCD ghosted a bit, but the colors it trailed closely resembled the colors they oringated from. So it was a lot more bareable.
...if you are shopping for a new PC monitor, consider your searching over - this is the one to get.
Discuss...
I've only got till March 5th to unload a FPD2485W within the 14 day return period at BB, and it hasn't been opened yet, let alone "tested". My criteria for a 24 incher is being able to buy local, a reasonable price and HDCP support, in that order. If there are issues, I want to easily be able to replace it. But, with this 14 day time constraint, I'm going to have to buy it a second time, and possibly not get the same low price I currently have.
Maybe a 24" LCD ain't such a great gift idea after all!
Discuss...
I've only got till March 5th to unload a FPD2485W within the 14 day return period at BB, and it hasn't been opened yet, let alone "tested". My criteria for a 24 incher is being able to buy local, a reasonable price and HDCP support, in that order. If there are issues, I want to easily be able to replace it. But, with this 14 day time constraint, I'm going to have to buy it a second time, and possibly not get the same low price I currently have.
Maybe a 24" LCD ain't such a great gift idea after all!
I picked up mine today, and have not experienced the problems so far that others are claiming. 1080P looks outstanding with my HDTV Wonder. CSS looks and plays great too. I have a Jan 07 MGQ71.
I got mine for 593.95 + tax , and got a free $24 gift card from Circuit City. Here is how I did that:
1.) Bought a 10% discount coupon off ebay for $.99.
2.) Placed order online at Circuit city for pick up at 6:00 am this morning. Only one store out of 5 in a 20 mile radius from my home had one in stock. I am in Dallas/Fort Worth
3.) Went to local Circuit City when they opened at 10:00 am. They took my card and ID. Charged my credit card while someone went to get my order.
4.) Guy comes back and can not find monitor in stock.
5.) I complain cause it said it was in stock and Circuit City has a guarantee your Internet Order is ready in 24 minutes or you get a $24 Gift Card. Girl at counter stalls, I complain, she gives in and gives me gift card, and a refund. I buy $24 worth of crap from Cicuit City, cause not sure when (or if) I will ever shop there again.
6.) I go to Best Buy about 1 block away. Took my receipt from Circuit City and asked them to price match. They did $593.95 + tax. I needed a longer DVI cable, picked up a 10' for $50 bucks, and they even applied the 10% discount to it. The store had 6 monitors in stock, the guy let me find a Jan 07 MGQ71.
Got the monitor home, been playing with the settings. No Ghosting (that I can tell), no tearing, noticed some slight banding, no clicking, no overheating, and no flicker. The monitor is bright as described, and colors are a bit saturated with out of the box settings, but after spending time to adjust, all looks nice. I am very happy so far.
Keep in mind, your credit card company may have a benefit to double your warranty. My Chase card does, so I have an extra year of warranty at no extra cost. Most people do not even know about these credit card programs.
I got mine for 593.95 + tax , and got a free $24 gift card from Circuit City. Here is how I did that:
1.) Bought a 10% discount coupon off ebay for $.99.
2.) Placed order online at Circuit city for pick up at 6:00 am this morning. Only one store out of 5 in a 20 mile radius from my home had one in stock. I am in Dallas/Fort Worth
3.) Went to local Circuit City when they opened at 10:00 am. They took my card and ID. Charged my credit card while someone went to get my order.
4.) Guy comes back and can not find monitor in stock.
5.) I complain cause it said it was in stock and Circuit City has a guarantee your Internet Order is ready in 24 minutes or you get a $24 Gift Card. Girl at counter stalls, I complain, she gives in and gives me gift card, and a refund. I buy $24 worth of crap from Cicuit City, cause not sure when (or if) I will ever shop there again.
6.) I go to Best Buy about 1 block away. Took my receipt from Circuit City and asked them to price match. They did $593.95 + tax. I needed a longer DVI cable, picked up a 10' for $50 bucks, and they even applied the 10% discount to it. The store had 6 monitors in stock, the guy let me find a Jan 07 MGQ71.
Got the monitor home, been playing with the settings. No Ghosting (that I can tell), no tearing, noticed some slight banding, no clicking, no overheating, and no flicker. The monitor is bright as described, and colors are a bit saturated with out of the box settings, but after spending time to adjust, all looks nice. I am very happy so far.
Keep in mind, your credit card company may have a benefit to double your warranty. My Chase card does, so I have an extra year of warranty at no extra cost. Most people do not even know about these credit card programs.
Don't like my posts, don't read them. And hell no I don't work for Gateway. In fact I wouldn't be caught dead with anything Gateway besides a monitor, unless I got a sick price on a notebook.
I have helped people on this board and MANY on here are happy with this monitor, alas many are not. I am speaking to those who want an affordable display with good performance that can be purchased locally. Sorry if I'm being annoying, maybe it's almost as bad as the folks that come in here and thing there is such a thing as a PERFECT LCD. Which of course, there is not. And when I get some time I will gladly take a video. Where is a good place to upload a video that doesn't compress it to shit?
K thanks.
wasteomind
Gawd
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2004
- Messages
- 522
Here are some pics of the ghosting. Like I said before its not the fact that it ghosts that bothers me, its the dark colors that it ghosts...
That is a pretty good deal swetmore, with the exception of this:
Other than this, congrats on the deal you got. Also good point about the credit card warranties, in my experience very few people are aware of them.
The quickest way to cancel a great deal at Best Buy is by buying accessories like cables from them. Their "Geek Squad" brand products are priced absolutely outrageously. For comparison, Monoprice.com sells very high quality cables, and a 12 foot DVI cable will run you a whopping $6.03 plus shipping. Contrary to what a salesman might tell you, there will be absolutely no improvement in quality with Best Buy's cable. If it's possible to return it, I would.
Other than this, congrats on the deal you got. Also good point about the credit card warranties, in my experience very few people are aware of them.
Acutally, I really intended on buying at Cicuit City. But I just got lucky cause Best Buy has the better return policy.
I don't think the inverted ghosting effect is being explained well.
I have seen ghosting from LCD monitors before. My old LCD did it. It's inherit to some extent in the technology itself. I am not normally very sensitive to it even at a "high" 25ms. At worst it just makes the image blurry.
The kind I'm now getting on this monitor is completely different than any ghosting effect I have ever seen.
A picture below:
The pic isn't great but it gets across the problem. There are two red squares in the picture. This is normally how ghosting looks when taken with the same speed setting on my camera on my other monitor. But on the gateway (the pic) you can see an additional lagging inverted square. I look at different manufacturers LCDs all day at work and have never seen another LCD display do this. This is why I think something else maybe going on other just normal LCD ghosting. If the inverted field wasn't there I wouldn't care honestly.
Note: The pic also doesn't convey very well how bright the inversion is IRL.
I have seen ghosting from LCD monitors before. My old LCD did it. It's inherit to some extent in the technology itself. I am not normally very sensitive to it even at a "high" 25ms. At worst it just makes the image blurry.
The kind I'm now getting on this monitor is completely different than any ghosting effect I have ever seen.
A picture below:
The pic isn't great but it gets across the problem. There are two red squares in the picture. This is normally how ghosting looks when taken with the same speed setting on my camera on my other monitor. But on the gateway (the pic) you can see an additional lagging inverted square. I look at different manufacturers LCDs all day at work and have never seen another LCD display do this. This is why I think something else maybe going on other just normal LCD ghosting. If the inverted field wasn't there I wouldn't care honestly.
Note: The pic also doesn't convey very well how bright the inversion is IRL.
Thanks for the tip on the DVI cable. Just ordered one on-line. Came to $10.08 shipped priority. I will take that cable back to Best Buy. I actually knew I was paying too much for the cable, it is just that I was pressed for time. So I will get another $39 by taking that overpriced cable to Best Buy. Thanks Again!
No problem, swetmore. Let us know how you like the Gateway once you've gotten a chance to play with it.
Here are some pics of the ghosting. Like I said before its not the fact that it ghosts that bothers me, its the dark colors that it ghosts...
WOW! That really is insane.
Surely there must be some pattern here as it seems even the those with higher end systems still show poor results. Using the test above my Nov model shows only the slightest, faint shadow.
Are you using: EzTune?
A VGA or DVI cable?
best
JMD
wasteomind
Gawd
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- Aug 13, 2004
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To quote myself from a previous post :
I have tried with eztune, tried without. Tried the color definition file provided earlier in this thread, made the colors nicer, but didn't change the smearing/ghosting issue.
Addition information:
Manufacter Date as recorded in eztune AssetID: Week 03, 2007
EDID Revision 1.3
MGQ71
Sorry for asking you to restate what you had already posted.
Wish I could offer an answer.
Best
JMD
Vengance_01
Supreme [H]ardness
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- Dec 23, 2001
- Messages
- 7,262
Damn I need to buy a 24inch LCD and it needs to be local, and it seems every 24 inch LCD has its own set of unique problems Grrrr, mabey I should get 2x20 inch LCDs. I really want a 24 inch single large display.
Grrrr, mabey I should get 2x20 inch LCDs. I really want a 24 inch single large display.mlambert890
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2007
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- 175
I think the Anand review is worth re-reading (the conclusion piece). I think a large widescreen LCD is just not going to be up to the standards of some folks period. Early in this thread, the BenQ was supposedly the savior model. Now, months later, people are complaining about the BenQ. Ghosting is a "feature" of an LCD. Some folks here, of course, may have gotten some kind of defective panel, but just the way people say "well, all of the people complaining of ghosting cant be wrong!", one can just as easily say "all of the people NOT complaining of ghosting AND Anand and a bunch of other pro sites can't be wrong"
See a pattern? Someone hit on it earlier in this thread. Displays are subjective. If you buy/return a few times and its still bugging you, you need to move on to a different model. That doesnt necessarily mean its a flawed design or that the reviewers/people saying they love it are "lying" or are "shills" or are "blind". Some people are just more sensitive to display anomalies than others. People that are sensitive will never be able to understand how someone who isnt cant see it. Thats why a thread like this goes forever.
People need to just buy one and see what THEY experience personally if they want it. You just really cant go by forum opinions for something like a display - it isnt objective. There will ALWAYS be a bunch of vocal people that hate whatever model is in question.
See a pattern? Someone hit on it earlier in this thread. Displays are subjective. If you buy/return a few times and its still bugging you, you need to move on to a different model. That doesnt necessarily mean its a flawed design or that the reviewers/people saying they love it are "lying" or are "shills" or are "blind". Some people are just more sensitive to display anomalies than others. People that are sensitive will never be able to understand how someone who isnt cant see it. Thats why a thread like this goes forever.
People need to just buy one and see what THEY experience personally if they want it. You just really cant go by forum opinions for something like a display - it isnt objective. There will ALWAYS be a bunch of vocal people that hate whatever model is in question.
Painboy?
I will post some more photos and a video today at some point. I am watching my daughter today (4 months) so I have to wait until she falls asleep.
Great
Painboy's pic was from the prad test.I think we all are familiar with ghosting on LCDs and that they come with it but this kind of ghosting like someone else mentioned is just something I hadnt seen before.
I couldn't find any wallpaper on line for a monitor this size so I created one for myself and thought I'd offer it to others with the Gateway FPD2485W monitors. Everything I liked was at too low a resoltion for this montior.
I know it may not be eveyrone's style but for the moment it looks good on my screen. Hope you enjoy it.
http://www.liquidmoonlight.com/temp/Wallpaper24i.jpg
I saved it off as a jpeg with no additional compression so it should look pretty good.
-Darv
http://www.liquidmoonlight.com
I know it may not be eveyrone's style but for the moment it looks good on my screen. Hope you enjoy it.
http://www.liquidmoonlight.com/temp/Wallpaper24i.jpg
I saved it off as a jpeg with no additional compression so it should look pretty good.
-Darv
http://www.liquidmoonlight.com
Here's my prad test result. Look's the same as above
Obviosly we're seeing something of a new issue here. Could it be the Faroudja processing?
Btw, Nice wallpaper design Darv
Here's one site with lots of different wallpapers at 1920x1200 res and other sizes
http://interfacelift.com/wallpaper/index.php?sort=date&w=1920&h=1200
Obviosly we're seeing something of a new issue here. Could it be the Faroudja processing?
Btw, Nice wallpaper design Darv
Here's one site with lots of different wallpapers at 1920x1200 res and other sizes
http://interfacelift.com/wallpaper/index.php?sort=date&w=1920&h=1200
I did the first test and didn't notice all that much ghosting on the Gateway monitor. Closed out of the page and then thought, hey, I wonder how my secondary 19" LG Flatron L1920P that I bought about 3 years ago for more than the Gateway monitor would hold up. YIKES! The LG left a trail of red behind the box about 1/4 and it was dark red.
I did see a small amount on the Gateway but it was NOT red and perhaps just one frame behind but nothing like my old monitor.
Funny how with 3 years of using dual LG montiors before getting this Gateway I never noticed the ghosting.
Darv
taylorwilsdon
2[H]4U
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- Aug 21, 2006
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- 2,286
I did the prad test and I've got pretty noticeable ghosting on my December model, but who cares. I don't play games, I have a Mac, the most intensive thing I do is run iTunes. Life goes on.
Still, cool test. I wonder if its the same with my other screens.
Edit, geez- theres absolutely zero on my Macbook Pro screen. Lots on my Westinghouse 32w6 though, but thats to be expected.
Still, cool test. I wonder if its the same with my other screens.
Edit, geez- theres absolutely zero on my Macbook Pro screen. Lots on my Westinghouse 32w6 though, but thats to be expected.
Inverse-colored trailing is normal for monitors with overdrive and is usually most visible against dark gray. I've seen it on every monitor with overdrive, although I find it's worse on monitors with S-PVA panels since they have bad gray-to-gray response times to begin with.
I've seen this problem on the Eizo CE240W, and I hear the Dell 2407WFP has the same problem. It's caused by the crappy overdrive implementation used in some monitors with S-PVA panels. Changing the brightness or color settings might eliminate the effect.
I also think that most of the 'so called' problems with the monitor, is mostly over pickey people getting their first LCD. The posted example of bad ghosting is not the norm for this monitor, nor can I speak to how to even make mine ghost that bad. It could just be a bad one? All LCD's do ghost. LCD's that normally have a small trail on 12" screens have a more noticleable trails when you blow them up to large 24" wide screens.
Out of all of the reputable reviews posted on the net by professionals who know LCD's and about their normal performance charistics, seem to be echoing the same message that this is a high end and respected LCD. It is at least as good as the other HD ready 24" wide screens currently released. I think it's the best 24" wide HD currently out, baring the Apple 23" $994.00 or $2199 for the 30" screen. Apple has quality displays, but come at a a ripp-off price. The FDP2485W is the best bang for the buck going in the 24" HD wide screen arena. I keep hoping the few users who dont like their monitor will just take it back and move on.
Hopefully the vast majority of us who like our FDP2485W's, wont have to spend so much time plowing through so many posts of the same people bitching on the same issue.
I am afraid that sombody actually knowing about LCD's and how they act, might get the wrong impression of this display from this thread. This is a great monitor, with a decent price. Is it the best display that man will ever make? Probably not. But for a 2007 24" HD ready display with true 1:1 conversion, it's pritty darn good.
If you dont like your LCD, return it. Life is too short.....
I would rather read posts about using your FDP2485W to the best of it's abilities such as calabration or color settings info. Reading about an LCD that has some minor ghosting is just to be expected in the flat panel display world.
Out of all of the reputable reviews posted on the net by professionals who know LCD's and about their normal performance charistics, seem to be echoing the same message that this is a high end and respected LCD. It is at least as good as the other HD ready 24" wide screens currently released. I think it's the best 24" wide HD currently out, baring the Apple 23" $994.00 or $2199 for the 30" screen. Apple has quality displays, but come at a a ripp-off price. The FDP2485W is the best bang for the buck going in the 24" HD wide screen arena. I keep hoping the few users who dont like their monitor will just take it back and move on.
Hopefully the vast majority of us who like our FDP2485W's, wont have to spend so much time plowing through so many posts of the same people bitching on the same issue.
I am afraid that sombody actually knowing about LCD's and how they act, might get the wrong impression of this display from this thread. This is a great monitor, with a decent price. Is it the best display that man will ever make? Probably not. But for a 2007 24" HD ready display with true 1:1 conversion, it's pritty darn good.
If you dont like your LCD, return it. Life is too short.....
I would rather read posts about using your FDP2485W to the best of it's abilities such as calabration or color settings info. Reading about an LCD that has some minor ghosting is just to be expected in the flat panel display world.
I echo the sentiments made by TalonMan above.
Currently this monitor is an excellent value in the 24" category, with these features, connection options, 90' rotation.
Since no LCD has the ability to completely eliminate ghosting and create true BLACKS I personally I think many of us hardcore users will not truly find Nirvana
on the flat panel front until the next generation of technology comes along. In the mean time there are a few very good candidates on the market that deserve
your attention and the Gateway 24" is one of them.
Best
JMD
mlambert890
Limp Gawd
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2007
- Messages
- 175
This is probably a no-brainer, but when photographing those ghosting results, what shutter speed is everyone photographing at? Probably it would be a good idea for everyone to standardize on one shutter speed before comparing those photos.
For PC users that are using the calibrated color file that Jarred at AT made for our FPD2485W, this is the package he used to do it. It does look to be a quality product.
Monaco Optix XR DTP94 calibration tool.
http://www.impulseadventure.com/photo/monaco-ezcolor-optix-xr-mon.html
Looks like about a $350.00 package too!
I like the color file Jarred made. Skin tones look correct to me now too!
Monaco Optix XR DTP94 calibration tool.
http://www.impulseadventure.com/photo/monaco-ezcolor-optix-xr-mon.html
Looks like about a $350.00 package too!
I like the color file Jarred made. Skin tones look correct to me now too!
wasteomind
Gawd
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2004
- Messages
- 522
I went into work the other day, with a monitor test program, Pixel Persistance Analyzer, and tested every monitor in the store. This included the gateway 24, and 22. Multiple samsungs including the 225bw, many envision and hp monitors, probably every low to mid range lcd that viewsonic makes, and a few acers. Even a few 42 and 50 inch lcd and plasma tvs.
All in all I tested probably about 30 monitors.
Of all of them, there were varying degrees of ghosting. Not a problem. What truely set the gateways apart from every other monitor in the store, was the fact that ONLY the GATEWAYS ghosted or smeared DARK colors in ALL moving object trails.
All other monitors ghosted trails were similar in color to the object they trailed, in this case scrolling solid blocks of color, if you are familiar with the Pixel Persistance Analyzer, you know what I mean. White trailed white, yellow trailed yellow, ect ect.
I purchased the gateway 24, and honestly this ghosting, or color of ghosting, is just completely unpleasant and hard on my eyes. Almost resulting in headaches.
I just find it increadibly interesting that very few people in this thread find it unnatural or hard on the eyes. Even several people I worked with agreed that the trailing/ghosting colors on the gateway was akward.
I'm not saying the gateway was a bad monitor. I love its crispness and colors. Text to me looks awesome on this. But playing games and watching videos, its just too much for me.
I will be returning this monitor to find something that better suits me.
All in all I tested probably about 30 monitors.
Of all of them, there were varying degrees of ghosting. Not a problem. What truely set the gateways apart from every other monitor in the store, was the fact that ONLY the GATEWAYS ghosted or smeared DARK colors in ALL moving object trails.
All other monitors ghosted trails were similar in color to the object they trailed, in this case scrolling solid blocks of color, if you are familiar with the Pixel Persistance Analyzer, you know what I mean. White trailed white, yellow trailed yellow, ect ect.
I purchased the gateway 24, and honestly this ghosting, or color of ghosting, is just completely unpleasant and hard on my eyes. Almost resulting in headaches.
I just find it increadibly interesting that very few people in this thread find it unnatural or hard on the eyes. Even several people I worked with agreed that the trailing/ghosting colors on the gateway was akward.
I'm not saying the gateway was a bad monitor. I love its crispness and colors. Text to me looks awesome on this. But playing games and watching videos, its just too much for me.
I will be returning this monitor to find something that better suits me.