Gaming monitor for bright conditions? Windows + office lights

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bAMtan2

[H]ard|Gawd
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Sep 16, 2008
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You are playing a dark section in Stalker this afternoon. Your back faces a window, the sun shines in. The white walls, floor, and ceiling of the office are a bright, reflecty mess. Fluorescent lights beat down upon your head. Even with a matte finish, there is still some reflection coming from your monitor. Thank god you didn't get a glossy one. But at least you can see enough to play. You're going to war, after all.

The monitor you chose to play with is the _
 
LG W2442PA 200$ online from NClX typically.

It has the medium AG coating, you won't see any reflections. I also have a glossy screen and a matte one with light AG so no worries I know what I'm talking about
 
1300$ 30" panels with IPS glow and medicore black levels will be like punishment for some one wanting to play S.T.A.L.K.E.R.

Dell U2311H would also be a good choice for a bright enviromenment and gaming.
 
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Actually, STALKER looks great at 2560x1600 :) Black levels are fine for a LCD. If you want excellent black levels you need a CRT or a plasma.
 
NCX said:
1300$ 30" panels with IPS glow and medicore black levels will be like punishment for some one wanting to play S.T.A.L.K.E.R.
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First hand experience, looks great on the Dell U3011. It has higher input lag than the HP, but still low enough to be a non-issue in my experience.

And I have the exact same setup as you OP, with a window facing my back. Very effective AG, not a problem at all.
 
PC Gaming at high resolution (2560x1440) compared to gaming at 1920X1080 is a revelation. Two days ago I played Crysis on my U2711. Its a completely different experience. The new Crysis 2 should be an experience.
 
Increasing the resolution does not change the important aspects of image quality! Plenty of LCD's have good black levels, the over priced 30" models can not compete with the 23-24" panels in terms of image quality and have the over agressive AG coating which is not needed to block light.

Dur it's big, I bought it and like it, therefore it must be good. Welcome to America.
 
NCX said:
Increasing the resolution does not change the important aspects of image quality!

Dur it's big, I bought it and like it, therefore it must be good. Welcome to America.
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Higher resolution is part of image quality. Big screens are great for productivity and immersive and high DPI produces a very crisp image. :)

Dur, it is big, just about every review posted for it claims it produces great image quality, it looks great in person, therefore it must be good. America, **** yeah!

Yes, some complain the AG is very strong, but that is a plus for a very bright environment (windows + office lights).
http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/dell_u3011.htm
TFT Central said:
Overall I was very impressed by the new U3011. Spec and features wise, Dell have done their usual excellent job of providing pretty much everything you could want or need from a screen. IPS panel technology is always a popular choice, and it has now been combined with the latest generation of 10-bit panel. There's a massive selection of interface options for connecting all your devices, PC's and multi-media players. Ergonomics are good and there's a decent range of preset modes and options available from the screen and OSD.

Performance wise the default factory settings were very pleasing in standard, AdobeRGB and sRGB modes which was great to see. The factory calibration of gamma and colours has done a good job here and it's a nice investment by Dell. We'd like to see more screens factory calibrated like this as it's very important to most normal users, who would not necessarily have access to a colorimeter or reliable calibration methods. Black depth, contrast ratio, responsiveness and input lag were also all more than adequate. There were some obvious improvements made over the previous 3008WFP in these regards, and certainly when it came to the colour accuracy and performance in those tests. This was obviously a decent upgrade from the 3008WFP which is again great to see.
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lancelot48 said:
PC Gaming at high resolution (2560x1440) compared to gaming at 1920X1080 is a revelation. Two days ago I played Crysis on my U2711. Its a completely different experience. The new Crysis 2 should be an experience.
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now play crysis at 60fps minimum for another completely different experience

I wonder which is better

both can be pretty expensive (or pretty cheap, depending how you do it)
 
NCX said:
Increasing the resolution does not change the important aspects of image quality! Plenty of LCD's have good black levels, the over priced 30" models can not compete with the 23-24" panels in terms of image quality and have the over agressive AG coating which is not needed to block light.

Dur it's big, I bought it and like it, therefore it must be good. Welcome to America.
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Are you serious?
 
NCX said:
Increasing the resolution does not change the important aspects of image quality! Plenty of LCD's have good black levels, the over priced 30" models can not compete with the 23-24" panels in terms of image quality
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LOL, thanks for the laugh!
 
NCX said:
Increasing the resolution does not change the important aspects of image quality! Plenty of LCD's have good black levels, the over priced 30" models can not compete with the 23-24" panels in terms of image quality and have the over agressive AG coating which is not needed to block light.

Dur it's big, I bought it and like it, therefore it must be good. Welcome to America.
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Bigger is always better, and it also applies to monitors. ;)
 
lancelot48 said:
Bigger is always better, and it also applies to monitors. ;)
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You would pick a monitor with bad contrast, viewing angles and input lag just as long as it's big? Wow.

NCX has a point here. Image quality > size.
 
tQz1 said:
You would pick a monitor with bad contrast, viewing angles and input lag just as long as it's big? Wow.

NCX has a point here. Image quality > size.
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I dunno, sounds like someone is just insecure that they are measuring up several inches short. *shrugs*

Seriously though, show me a review that says the image quality of these 30" ultra high res herculean displays is "poor", lets be real. :)
 
I doubt you will see such a review. I was running with a Dell 2405 @ 1920x1200 for a long time (since 2005), and very happy with it. I still have it on my desktop (to the right) with my U3011 and the U3011 has better blacks, whites ,contrast and color compared to my 2405.

I will say in NCX's defense, assuming what I think he meant to say is that, all things equal, going from a 24" 1920x1200 display to a 30" 2560x1600 display - "Increasing the resolution does not change the important aspects of image quality!" - Is correct. But the implication of doing so will result in lessor display quality is definitely not my experience with making this move.

And as Ducman69 points out; "Seriously though, show me a review that says the image quality of these 30" ultra high res herculean displays is "poor", lets be real. "

You won't see one from me. I am very happy with my U3011.

Takeaway=Does going from a 24" @ 1920x1200 to a 30" 2560x1600 = an increase in resolution?

Do the math.
 
Go to the Colour Accuracy, Black Depth and Contrast section.

When actually reading the review for the U3011 it states:
Black depth was recorded at a pretty decent 0.23 cd/m2, giving a static contrast ratio of 780:1. Another pretty decent result from an IPS panel here in this regard.
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And goes on to praise the fantastic image quality and color accuracy of the U3011 display out of the box, whereas with the BenQ there are numerous noted complaints including limited color space, gamma a little off, color temperature was way out, color accuracy fairly moderate with banding and recommended adjustments needed to get a decent picture, correcting some of which throws color accuracy further off with descriptions for the BenQ of "odd, exaggerated and appear almost cartoony".

In fact the only way in which it received superior remarks was in its deep blacks, due to being a VA LED backlit panel type.

You would get superior blacks from a 50" 1080p plasma as well, but to use that solely when discussing image quality, and implying the U3011 is poorly reviewed in IQ is very misleading to say the least. :p

Thats not to say that its king of kings, but its a very big very high resolution screen with great color accuracy and overall IQ and low enough input lag for gaming, w/ generally speaking the only complaint being the strong anti-glare coating, which in the case of a bright environment w/ a window behind you is a positive compared to a weaker or worse yet glossy type. :)
 
I never compared the color accuracy of these two monitors. And where did I imply the U3011 is poorly reviewed? My only point was, the 30" monitors are not the best in each aspect. Size is not everything. There are other factors that should also be taken into account when choosing a monitor.

tQz1 said:
So for someone who considers contrast ratio important, the EW2420 would have a much better image quality in that regard.
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Anyway, the difference between 800:1 and 3000:1 contrast can have a significant impact on overall picture quality.
 
For high glare lighting conditions, I would recommend an IPS panel as the AG coating of these panels are as effective as you can get for maintaining legibility.
 
High lighting sucks :p

I'm a big fan of glossy personally. Glossy is great (imo preferred) if you can control your room lighting - keeping lights alongside or behind the monitors. I hate rooms at workplaces that have "operating room bright" fluorescent lights blasting. So much so that I might get some non-corrective "auto-dimming" type glasses, since wearing sunglasses indoors is generally frowned upon. I really hate when anyone blasts me with light or sounds that I don't want at high levels. Thats why I always have earplugs smashed in my wallet as well.

Some high end professional monitors , like Lacie's
http://www.superwarehouse.com/LaCie_LCD_Monitors/b/307/c/1876
have visors or hoods (like awnings or canopies) on them , because flooding your monitor with light is a bad idea if you want accuracy. Coating the screen in cross-hatch crystal wax is not that great of a solution in my opinion either - especially the over agressive AG coatings in the current crop of very high rez 27" - 30" ips from what I've been reading.. (other than the 27" cinema display which is glossy - and which looks beautiful -- and which I'm buying soon ! :D ).

You can buy some visors separately.
Here is one for a 27"
http://www.pcrush.com/product/LCD-Hoods/646121/NEC-HDPA27-Monitor-Screen-Hood?refid=1238

22" to 24"

http://www.amazon.com/Display-Hood-21IN-Professional-Displays/dp/B003CNRQ1S

http://www.provantage.com/hewlett-packard-hp-kz301aa~7HPP92P4.htm

if you do a google search on lcd , monitor, etc.. +visor or +hood and subtract camera ( -camera) you can find more results

LaCie 324 24" Widescreen LCD Monitor with Hood and Calibration Software Features
Ideal For Your Work Environment
Designed to optimize your work environment, the LaCie 324’s large 24" diagonal and 16:10 format enhance productivity and allow full 1:1 scale display of two letter-sized or A4 pages with extra space for toolbars. Its USB 2.0 hub and headphone port are conveniently within reach so you can easily connect your peripherals. All monitor controls are easily accessible through the monitor’s touch-sensitive interface. For professionals working in the brightest environments, the optional easyHood simply clips into a stable position where it blocks out ambient light.
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Considering all the 30" have medicore contrast it is only fair to say a slight imrpovement that the 3011 brings is good. It is like saying a Wii game has good graphics for a Wii game (but compared to everything else=medicore). The image quality is good for a 30", or more than adequate because it is as good as they get, but not when compared to the smaller panels.

The 2011 1440p/1600p IPS panels will have good image quality that is finally on par with the smaller panels, minus the AG coating, which is unecessary. The typical/medium AG coating is more than sufficient for bright environments.
 
NCX said:
The 2011 1440p/1600p IPS panels will have good image quality that is finally on par with the smaller panels, minus the AG coating, which is unecessary.
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What 2011 27/30" IPS panels? These aren't tick-tock semiconductors, they have a fairly long life. The LM300WQ5 is probably more than four years old if it is still in use.
 
I meant the 2011 monitors, not a new panel itself.
 
The zr30w performs well in this review's tests, and some of the 24" screens do score really well in black level test according to this site's ACD review....

http://www.anandtech.com/show/3946/apple-27inch-led-cinema-display-review/5

I use various lcds around my home and workplace. I can usually tell if blacks are noticeably poor so its hard to understand the charts regarding the cinema display I've been eyeballing. The notes at the bottom of the charts confuse the results. The two black level tests are at max and min brightness, where the glossy display's blacks really come out when you turn the brightness down considerably, but not "off", and are also dependent on the room lighting. Room lighting really matters so tests really should include that information. When using my led edgelit samsung tv for example, I have different settings for daytime and nightime which greatly improve the picture quality (inlcuding black levels as perceived) when I switch to them appropriately. I'm not sitting there with a colorimeter.. my eyes are affected by the environment.
..
The glossy display tends to make blacks look darker to me by nature. I can't say how the heavy AG coated large ips model screen's black levels would be perceived by eye, and as compared to the better-scoring 24" displays in the same lighting environment? By eye in my own enviroment is my only real concern.
If you are getting bad glare where you have your gaming setup you probably are being blasted with bright light, so your monitor should have a lot of brightness to compensate. Personally I would try to get an LED one if possible but thats my preference.
.. I ~had~ been considering getting the hp zr30w for awhile until I read many reports about the AG.. Heavy AG reallly bothers me. Dells are out of the running since not only do they have the AG - they use a scaler which = greatly increased input lag.

I'd never buy a wax-crystal coated display for $1k +personally - I'd design my lighting and workspace around my setup, not the other way around.

One final thing I just remembered that may or may not be of use to you. You can buy three panel hinged free-standing privacy screens made of wood. Some have wooden blinds with a spine-rod that opens and closes the shutters as much as you want. You can also get ornamental ones, (often shutter-less oriental ones) , or be creative and paint your own designs onto one. I use a black one with shutters on it in my front hall desk area sometimes (where I pay my bills, etc) because at a certain time of day the sun comes through my front door's oval window like a laser.

http://www.workstationsusa.com/IVG2/Y/CatID-5958-Desktop-Privacy-Screens-Folding-Curved-Snap-On.htm?imagesize=large
 
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Yeah, I really like my ZR30w. I'll certainly never go back to 1080p or a smaller 1920x1200 monitor. AG coating does not bother me at all, in fact if this forum didn't make such a big deal of it I doubt I'd have noticed it in the first place. My dad really likes having my old Samsung T240 as his new PC monitor though, for him it's the best thing ever! Personally I couldn't get rid of it fast enough :D
 
NCX said:
1300$ 30" panels with IPS glow and medicore black levels will be like punishment for some one wanting to play S.T.A.L.K.E.R.
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Why are you talking about glow and black levels when that stuff isn't even noticeable in a bright room?

NCX said:
Increasing the resolution does not change the important aspects of image quality! Plenty of LCD's have good black levels, the over priced 30" models can not compete with the 23-24" panels in terms of image quality and have the over agressive AG coating which is not needed to block light.
Click to expand...
It's pretty clear that you have no understanding of how contrast affects the image, or you wouldn't put so much emphasis on it for a bright environment. Even worse, you recommended a TN panel where the viewing angle effects can be seen from a normal viewing position even in a bright room.



tQz1 said:
You would pick a monitor with bad contrast, viewing angles and input lag just as long as it's big?
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The HP ZR30W has good viewing angles and low lag, and the contrast wouldn't be an issue in a bright room.

tQz1 said:
NCX has a point here. Image quality > size.
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He has no understanding of image quailty. He recommended a smaller TN panel with worse viewing angles over a large IPS panel simply because of a small contrast difference that isn't even visible in a bright environment.

tQz1 said:
Anyway, the difference between 800:1 and 3000:1 contrast can have a significant impact on overall picture quality.
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Only in a dark room displaying something dark. Otherwise, there's hardly any difference. Viewing angles and gamma calibration make a far bigger difference.
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tQz1
Anyway, the difference between 800:1 and 3000:1 contrast can have a significant impact on overall picture quality.
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Originally Posted by ToastyX
Only in a dark room displaying something dark. Otherwise, there's hardly any difference. Viewing angles and gamma calibration make a far bigger difference.
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... About the room lighting vs black levels --- Basically when your room lighting gets darker, your eyes perceive the brightness of a monitor going way up. This happens in my front hall-room as the daylight wanes. By the time its dusk, the lcd is painfully bright unless you turn on some supplemental lighting. You can get a similar effect with a flashlight in the summer sun vs turning it on at night .. what a difference. :cool:
....
For monitors in general, you might actually get better blacks when the brightness is turned down when you are in a dim to softly lit room. Turning down the "flashlight" blasting through the back of the display can help to "sink" the blacks. Its a delicate balance though and the overall contrast rating does determine the max effect and how easy it is to tweak better. (But - the overall contrast rating on most lcd's is now exaggerated in the specs due to the max brightness ceiling be so high).
....
... You should be able to turn the brightness down on your display considerably. As long as you have some dim to medium lighting going your eyes should perceive decent black levels as black, and the brightness/whites as strong. People used to put a soft lamp behind their rear projection tv's for that reason back in the day - because the blacklevels on the earlier generations of hdtv's were very poor (350:1) and it helped a bit vs total room darkness because of the way our eyes work.
....
....As most people know, LCDs are set ridiculously bright out of the box. So much so that some people immediately cry how horrible the edge bleeding is - when often it is horribly exacerbated by the insane brightness "flaring" out from the edges of the screen. While very high brightness levels might look "ok" when in a super bright showroom floor at a store, at home in most lighting environments they are completely unnecessary, and can be downright painful to your eyes after staring a few hours into a "flashlight".
....
... Black levels/detail-in-blacks/contrast levels are very important, but your lighting environment vs your display settings determines some of how your eyes perceive those levels, and thus what you can "get out of your display" black level vs detail-in-blacks wise.
 
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