so, i got my GC running on a brand new 51" hdtv (phillips) its going in through the 3rd input via s-video. my problem is it looks like shit. theres jaggies everywhere, which i dont mind so much, but the pciture is dithered like crazy, and just general bad colors. my question is, is this normal? does everyone else just suffer through this? or is there something i can do to make it look better?
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Gamecube on 51" HDTV
- Thread starter calluum
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calluum said:
I'm guessing your HDTV is widescreen. I have a 46" Samsung and I Have the same problem. The games, well most of them, are made for a 4:3 aspect ratio, so stretching to a 16:9 ratio will cause them to look horrible. You can switch to the 4:3 aspect ratio and have black bars on the sides, but that almost eliminates the point of a widescreen TV. I also found there was horrible lag in games. I would push left and a split second later the character would move left. I called Nintendo about this, and they told me it was my TV, which is bullshit because my Xbox, play station, and play station 2 all work just fine without any perceivable lag.
It boils down to the game cube not being widescreen friendly. You could hold out for the revolution, but from information so far, the highest widescreen it will support is non HD, 640 x 480. Nintendo is plain and simple catering to the lowest common denominator and making the game cube and revolution for people with garbage regular 4:3 TVs.
If you want a system that will play games in widescreen, and will look decent get an XBOX, or wait for the PS3 or XBOX360 and you can play in true HD widescreen glory.
DragonMasterAlex
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Draax said:
That's bullsh1t, man. I run my GC on a 61" Samsung Widescreen DLP TV and it works fine. The "lag" problem you are talking about affects all consoles--including Xbox and PS2--and on the Samsungs, at least, is a result of the DNIe image processing function. If you disable that, the lag disappears.
As for widescreen support, it depends on the game. Some support it, some don't, and the same is true across all consoles. The Component cables DO help, but not that much (I have Xbox and GC on Component, but not PS2, as that system is too weak to make any difference anyway). Bottom line: Current gen games are not high enough rez to look fabulous on HDTV's. For games that support widescreen, play them in widescreen. For games that don't, switch to 4:3 mode.
Jason
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calluum said:
You could do that, but you won't be able to play RE4 on the DVD player. Not to mention, HDMI on a standard def DVD player is nearly pointless.
Jason
Ya thats what Nintendo told me the second time I called, and it still has lag, where as my other consoles do not. In addition the last time I tried to order Component YPrPb cables from Nintendo they were back ordered until june. It does not effect all consoles as the GC is the only one that suffers from the problem.DragonMasterAlex said:
XBOX 720p games, which there are alot, look infintely better then any game on the Gamecube. The Gamecube is the only console not sold at a loss, to do this they had to reduce price by cutting corners. If you have a HD widescreen TV you can very clearly see where they chose to cut corners. Hell Doom 3 looks better on the XBOX then pumped through dual link DVI from my PC. This is because the XBOX version has true widescreen, whereas the PC version has hacked widescreen with a skewed FOV.
anotherguy159
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I don't think that is true.Draax said:
DragonMasterAlex
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Draax said:
Then you've got something else misconfigured. It is NOT the Gamecube. As I said before, I've got all three systems, Xbox and GC on component and PS2 on S-Video, and NONE have the problem with DNIe turned off. ALL have the problem with DNIe turned on. You can get the component cables on eBay; I got mine for about $15 shipped a few months ago.
There aren't that many 720p Xbox 1 games. I've got over 40 Xbox 1 games and only *2* support 720p natively. As a matter of fact, incidentally, Zelda: The Wind Waker looks better on my TV than *any* other game on *any* console. Yes, Gamecube is sold for a profit. Yes, they've had to redesign the hardware to make it cheaper to produce with every price drop. So have Xbox and so has Sony (there are 14 different versions of PS2, and the newest version, out only in Japan, isn't even compatible with some *PS2* titles, plus about 80-odd total PS1 titles (38 of which are new to the list of PS1 games that don't work on PS2).
I also agree that Doom looks better on an HDTV coming from Xbox than from PC. That's primarily related to the fact that Xbox is a consumer device built for connection to a TV, whereas a PC graphics card is intended for the higher resolutions of monitors. If you could get a decent *Driver* for your HDTV (which, to my knowledge, not a *single* HDTV seller provides) your video card could have much better communication with your TV and would have a better picture as a result. If you grab a tweaking utility that allows you to fine-tune screen size, refresh rate, etc., you can get a very nice picture on an HDTV, but it does take some work.
In any case, the notion that GC is somehow less capable than PS2 or Xbox for displaying games is pure nonsense. There are *plenty* of Xbox games that look like total sh1t on an HDTV, and pretty much *all* PS2 games do. Unfortunately, HDTV's aren't as perfectly plug-and-play as we'd like to wish they were.
Jason
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airiox said:
No, there are, just not very many. Tony Hawk 4 does for sure, as does Doom3, and I've got at least one more that does, but I can't remember the title.
Jason
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calluum said:
Depends on the DVD. The ones with really nice transfers, the quality difference is night and day. For the ones with mediocre transfers (mainly older movies that were never really gonna sell well at $15 retail) it helps a bit, but not incredibly so. If your player *can* run progressive scan, definitely use it all the time, though
You can get a cheap progressive scan player that also does PAL<->NTSC conversion on the fly and plays back DivX/Xvid/Mpeg4 files at Wal Mart for like $50 or less. Not sure on the reliability, but they've got nice feature sets for the price. Might at least give you an idea if you think it's worthwhile, and if you feel the need you could spend the bread for a better player.Jason
DragonMasterAlex said:Depends on the DVD. The ones with really nice transfers, the quality difference is night and day. For the ones with mediocre transfers (mainly older movies that were never really gonna sell well at $15 retail) it helps a bit, but not incredibly so. If your player *can* run progressive scan, definitely use it all the time, though
Jason
well, see the problem is my tv only has one component input and one hdmi input, so right now my cable box is hooked up via the component, and my dvd player via s-video. so in order to use the pro scan on a dvd player, id have to buy an hdmi cable for my cable for about $50 then a $50 dvd player. i dont mind that, but if im not gonna see a huge difference between the two id rather not. of course im thinking with episode 3 coming out tomorrow, it may be a good idea.
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calluum said:
I know of a discount place where you can get cables for really cheap online (I love Chinese slave labor!
, but I can't remember the name at the moment. Tip of my damn tongue, though!Now as for SW EpIII, you should know this: Even with progressive scan, it will still suck
Jason
DragonMasterAlex said:I know of a discount place where you can get cables for really cheap online (I love Chinese slave labor!
Now as for SW EpIII, you should know this: Even with progressive scan, it will still suck
Jason
heh..i liked ep 3...one of like 10 in the us i believe...i really didnt like the first 2 tho. anyway, im really looking to buy local, buying online is a supreme pain in the ass for me. so best iu can do is a $50 hdmi cable at walmart.
D
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DragonMasterAlex
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calluum said:
It's mind boggling how expensive cables are, even at Wal Mart. Stupid cables!
As for Ep3, yeah, it was definitely better than 1 and 2. Personally the only original trilogy SW I liked was Ep2, and the new trilogy, Ep3 was OK. I thought the STORY of the new trilogy was better than the old, but *very* badly directed and acted.
Jason
Oh my good gracious there are so many things in this thread, oooo, head hurts.
Callum, first off, dude you need a component splitter. Something that allows you to hook more than 1 thing into your TV via component cables. HDMI DVD isn't going to make a night and day difference on regular dvd now. It will make some difference, but not a difference so huge you're like "WOW!" It won't do that for you. Some DVD's will look worse if the transfer used to make the dvd was of poor quality.
Pelican makes a couple of component splitters that many many people all over the internet forums and such stand behind. So you could at least try it out, and if it didn't meet your standards, get a more expensive one from the net somewhere. Radioshack also has a 4 port component splitter, that apparently is decent.
The difference between using a Progeressive DVD player with component or HDMI connections, versus one with an S-video non Progressive picture is going to be huge. Thats going to be where you see an improvement, and a big one. If you can look for a newer DVD player that has a video decoder in it that runs at 108mhz/12bit. Thats going to be considered 'high-end' for most of your big box brick and mortar stores, and will give you better visual quality than a cheapy.
Honestly though, spend more than 100 bucks, you'll thank yourself in the end. And when you buy episode 3 tomorrow, use the THX optimizer to set the picture up correctly, you'll thank yourself for that too. That DVD is supposed to be pretty mofo'n DVD.
Thank god someone mentioned www.HDTVarcade.com. Want to know if a game for any system supports 480p 72p0 1080i and/or widescreen? Go there.
Halo 1 looks like shit on a widescreen HDTV, so it's not just the gamecube. Final Fantasy X, looks like shit on a widescreen HDTV, so it's not just the gamecube. Xbox is the most WS friendly, PS2 follows behind that, and a lot of the newer first party game on the cube are WS compatible, but the GC still lags behind even the PS2 on that front. THe games that do run in 480p WS look awesome though, so the GC is no slouch when it comes to the visuals.
Running any of the consoles via S-video into an HDTV, and then playing a non progressive, non-widescreen game, in a forced widescreen stretch mode, is a recipe for shit visuals, and thats true for any system.
DO NOT PAY $50 for an HDMI CABLE! go to www.monoprice.com, they have HDMI cables, much less than $50.
And yes, there are multiple documented issues with lag on Projection DLP and LCD tv's with video game consoles. It is worse on micromirror displays, but has been known to show up on other sets. So it's not just the gamecube.
Callum, first off, dude you need a component splitter. Something that allows you to hook more than 1 thing into your TV via component cables. HDMI DVD isn't going to make a night and day difference on regular dvd now. It will make some difference, but not a difference so huge you're like "WOW!" It won't do that for you. Some DVD's will look worse if the transfer used to make the dvd was of poor quality.
Pelican makes a couple of component splitters that many many people all over the internet forums and such stand behind. So you could at least try it out, and if it didn't meet your standards, get a more expensive one from the net somewhere. Radioshack also has a 4 port component splitter, that apparently is decent.
The difference between using a Progeressive DVD player with component or HDMI connections, versus one with an S-video non Progressive picture is going to be huge. Thats going to be where you see an improvement, and a big one. If you can look for a newer DVD player that has a video decoder in it that runs at 108mhz/12bit. Thats going to be considered 'high-end' for most of your big box brick and mortar stores, and will give you better visual quality than a cheapy.
Honestly though, spend more than 100 bucks, you'll thank yourself in the end. And when you buy episode 3 tomorrow, use the THX optimizer to set the picture up correctly, you'll thank yourself for that too. That DVD is supposed to be pretty mofo'n DVD.
Thank god someone mentioned www.HDTVarcade.com. Want to know if a game for any system supports 480p 72p0 1080i and/or widescreen? Go there.
Halo 1 looks like shit on a widescreen HDTV, so it's not just the gamecube. Final Fantasy X, looks like shit on a widescreen HDTV, so it's not just the gamecube. Xbox is the most WS friendly, PS2 follows behind that, and a lot of the newer first party game on the cube are WS compatible, but the GC still lags behind even the PS2 on that front. THe games that do run in 480p WS look awesome though, so the GC is no slouch when it comes to the visuals.
Running any of the consoles via S-video into an HDTV, and then playing a non progressive, non-widescreen game, in a forced widescreen stretch mode, is a recipe for shit visuals, and thats true for any system.
DO NOT PAY $50 for an HDMI CABLE! go to www.monoprice.com, they have HDMI cables, much less than $50.
And yes, there are multiple documented issues with lag on Projection DLP and LCD tv's with video game consoles. It is worse on micromirror displays, but has been known to show up on other sets. So it's not just the gamecube.
Jawad said:yeah, try getting the new Nintendo Revolution..... or wait, thats not HD either
xbox 360 is your friend..
im honestly not a big console gamer, but i will be picking up a 360 when it comes out for Perfect dark zero and oblivion if nothing else. anyway, im gonna look into the component splitter things.
spydermonkey
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First off... nobody knows if the Revolution will be HD yet, since Nintendo is still in "consideration" mode... the GPU inside will certainly be capable of it, and at the very least, 480p widescreen will be standard... I am willing to go out on a limb and say that 720p will be a feature that will be usable by any developer that wants to use it, since 480p is known to work.
As for this thread... first off, you can't plug in ANY console to the S-Video port on a large widescreen TV. Interlaced picture will give it "stretch marks"... Get the component cable from ebay and fix whatever issue your TV has with gaming consoles. It's not the Gamecube's fault. The XBox 360 will be my friend when it gives me some games that I actually want that won't be on other consoles, or on the PC within 9 months thanks to XNA.
As for this thread... first off, you can't plug in ANY console to the S-Video port on a large widescreen TV. Interlaced picture will give it "stretch marks"... Get the component cable from ebay and fix whatever issue your TV has with gaming consoles. It's not the Gamecube's fault. The XBox 360 will be my friend when it gives me some games that I actually want that won't be on other consoles, or on the PC within 9 months thanks to XNA.
Jawad said:yeah, try getting the new Nintendo Revolution..... or wait, thats not HD either
xbox 360 is your friend..
You are spot on, some people cant seem to admit that Nintendo can do wrong. You just need to take a look at the GC and the specs for the revolution and you can very clearly see the stance Nintendo has taken in regards to HD and widescreen display in games.
I dont care what anyone in this thread says about the GC not being the only console that lags, because It simply is not true. I have tested consoles from Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft on my TV because I own them, and I have indicated my findings. I will reiterate that the Playstation and the XBOX do not lag anywhere near what the GC does. On my Samsung DLP there is no percievable lag on the XBOX or PS, thats just the way it goes, I cant speak for everyone elses TVs but thats the way it goes for mine, end of story.
All I know if I plugged my cube into my friends new 52" LCD projection TV via component cables and it looked BEAUTIFUL!!
I think on a TV of that size, component cables make all the difference!
Also, RE4 suffers jaggy syndrome more than most games since it doesn't even use the full 640x480 resolution available to the cube. It runs in a "fake" widescreen mode that loses some of the vertical resolution.
I think on a TV of that size, component cables make all the difference!
Also, RE4 suffers jaggy syndrome more than most games since it doesn't even use the full 640x480 resolution available to the cube. It runs in a "fake" widescreen mode that loses some of the vertical resolution.
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Kahnvex said:
Thank goodness you posted about Monoprice.com
They are about 2 blocks away from here (from where I work) and I buy all my cables there. EXCELLENT place. Even if you had to pay shipping, you'd save a *fortune*.Jason
What type of tech is your TV? LCD, DLP, CRT? That could make a difference...
I have a Hitachi 57" CRT RPTV with an HD cable box, HDMI DVD player, PS2, and GC hooked up to it. The Cable box gets the HD component in, DVD Players gets the DVI/HDMI in, so that leaves an S-Video for the PS2, and composite for the GC (PS2 games look much better than GC games, so it gets the better input).
Still, I have yet to play a game that looks bad on this set. Granted, the only gamecube game I really play is DDR: Mario Mix, but I have had friends over who have brought others, a japanese Naruto import, even seen Madden on GC (doesn't look nearly as good as the PS2 version, but I think that is more the GCs limitations than the connection) all look good.
Now, granted, CRT RPTVs are much, much, more forgiving when it comes to low-res input signals and upconverting them than fixed pixel displays or fixed pixel RP sets are. In fact, the big reason I bought this set is that it beats the pants off of anything else on the market for making look standard-def signals look as close to HD as possible.
Try fiddling with your picture controls too, if you have your brightness/contrast/color out of what that can make it look bad. Also turn off the BS picture 'enhancements' like Velocity Scan Modulation (gives artificial hard edges), Noise Reduction (makes everything blurry), and depth enhancer (pretends to add contrast, but really reduces it overall).
I have a Hitachi 57" CRT RPTV with an HD cable box, HDMI DVD player, PS2, and GC hooked up to it. The Cable box gets the HD component in, DVD Players gets the DVI/HDMI in, so that leaves an S-Video for the PS2, and composite for the GC (PS2 games look much better than GC games, so it gets the better input).
Still, I have yet to play a game that looks bad on this set. Granted, the only gamecube game I really play is DDR: Mario Mix, but I have had friends over who have brought others, a japanese Naruto import, even seen Madden on GC (doesn't look nearly as good as the PS2 version, but I think that is more the GCs limitations than the connection) all look good.
Now, granted, CRT RPTVs are much, much, more forgiving when it comes to low-res input signals and upconverting them than fixed pixel displays or fixed pixel RP sets are. In fact, the big reason I bought this set is that it beats the pants off of anything else on the market for making look standard-def signals look as close to HD as possible.
Try fiddling with your picture controls too, if you have your brightness/contrast/color out of what that can make it look bad. Also turn off the BS picture 'enhancements' like Velocity Scan Modulation (gives artificial hard edges), Noise Reduction (makes everything blurry), and depth enhancer (pretends to add contrast, but really reduces it overall).
DragonMasterAlex
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Jawad said:yeah, try getting the new Nintendo Revolution..... or wait, thats not HD either
xbox 360 is your friend..
Actually, it hasn't been announced yet whether Rev will support HDTV or not, aside from ATI saying that its GPU WILL be able to handle HDTV resolutions. Of course, yesterday's Jim Merrick interview, where he said that there will be no visual difference between Revolution and 360/PS3 is a pretty good indicator that, in fact, Revolution will have some great graphics. More importantly, however, it's got that awesome control system that's truly revolutionary and could, if executed well, change the way games are played *fundamentally*.
I expect to buy an Xbox 360 when PS3 launches, since the second generation of software and the first price drop will have arrived by then. But make no mistake: Sony and Microsoft are offering more of the same, just with prettier graphics. Revolution is the ONLY true "Next Generation" platform coming.
Jason
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Draax said:
You keep making ridiculous claims. If GC lags on your TV, there's either something wrong with YOUR TV or with YOUR GAMECUBE, not with the GC itself. I run mine on a 61" Samsung DLP HDTV and there is NO LAG AT ALL. NONE. It's a simple issue to disable DNIe and all your lag issues disappear. With DNIe on, ALL consoles lag a little, even Xbox and PS2. I can't play DOA Ultimate online with DNIe on because it throws off the timing enough to get my ass kicked every time.
Simply put, YOU are WRONG.
Incidentally, you *CAN'T* look at the specs for Revolution, because they haven't been released yet! I take your statement as further evidence that you have no idea what you're talking about. Perhaps next you'd like to tell us that the marketing jokes Cell and Xenon are superior to multicore Athlon64's and P4's, yes?
Jason
DragonMasterAlex said:
Correction until you try the console on my TV, which is the only TV I am identifying, and I very clearly stated that, you do not know what you are talking about. Do you have any idea in the difference of hardware in 46" and 61" rear projection DLPs, or the fact that I have the model before the one that was just released a few months ago ? There are so many variables, and hardware configurations, that you can only claim performance on a TV by TV basis which is what I have done. You on the other hand are content to make wide sweeping generalizations about all Samsung DLP televisions.
Draax said:
The GC doesn't know what type of TV it is outputting to. The size/res of your screen will not slow it down or speed it up. If it does not 'lag' on a 20" analog TV, it should not lag on your 51" HDTV. If there is lag on both, you have a broken gamecube, if there is lag on only the HDTV, your tv has some issue, and will show lag with any console plugging into that input. If you are trying to say this isn't the case, you are wrong.
NulloModo said:
That is simply not true, the way the image is processed, the signal recieved, quality of connection all play a factor in how the image is displayed on an HDTV as opposed to regular 4:3. Just try inputing poor quality signals into an HDTV and you will see the quality of the signal the TV recieves is directly proportional to how the image is displayed on screen.
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Draax said:
No, you're making wide generalizations about GC. I have the 2004 model Samsung DLP. The hardware is identical between the 46, 50, 56 and 61" variants within the same family. While there is certainly room for a little variation here and there, you're choosing to claim that it's because the GC is somehow manufactured more cheaply or inadequately than the others, which isn't true. Goodness knows, you can't get a console more cheaply manufactured than PS2.
Your problem isn't a GC design problem. If it were, there'd be far more people than just you (me, for instance) who'd have it.
Jason
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I run my GC on a dlp projector (capable of HD) using s-vid (looking for component cables right now) and it looks great, my PS2 looks great aswell (using s-vid also)
and thats on a.. hm.. like 100"+ screen?
sounds like you got a f-'ed up tv or you dont know how to configure it.
and thats on a.. hm.. like 100"+ screen?
sounds like you got a f-'ed up tv or you dont know how to configure it.
[T5K]thrasher said:I run my GC on a dlp projector (capable of HD) using s-vid (looking for component cables right now) and it looks great, my PS2 looks great aswell (using s-vid also)
and thats on a.. hm.. like 100"+ screen?
sounds like you got a f-'ed up tv or you dont know how to configure it.
This comming from a guy using s-video to connect a console to his projector.
Draax said:
S-Video is fine for a console. Composite is fine for a console on my 57" HD set, sure S-Vid looks better, but GC doesn't suffer much from composite.
I know that quality is to a degree proportional to how you input the signal, but you are talking about lag, not quality of signal. The TV should not 'lag' on certain signals and not others unless it is doing some weird image processing on certain inputs, in which case there is most likely a way you could turn that off and solve the problem.
[T5K]thrasher
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Like i said. Im looking for component cables right now. Looks like lik-sang is the only place to get them at the moment as nintendo has stopped shipping them.Draax said:
And s-video looks great on my projector. It could be that it has the faroujda DCDi processing chip to scale the picture to the native dlp reselution. ( i love my x1)
NullModo... the PS2 looks better than the cube? lol I think you should reverse those cables - the Cube is a much more powerful piece of hardware, far more capable of eye candy than the PS2, and almost even the X-box (see RE4 comparison thread from a few weeks back). Connecting a Cube through S-Video over composite CAN produce a "night and day" difference, though... as when I first did it a couple years back, I was blown away. (See: Zelda: Wind Waker)
Draax - Plug it into a regular CRT (i'm sure you have one around the house). If it lags, exchange the gamecube, as it's a faulty one. If it doesn't lag, either exchange your TV, or configure it accordingly. I've plugged the GC into many an HD projector, lcd, plasma, dlp, rear projection, and CRTs, NONE of which produced ANY lag whatsoever. And I'd be sensitive to those things.
As for HD - let me again say that we here who own HD home-theatres are in the 10%-ish minority that does. You can bet your ass that the ATI GPU and IBM CPU inside the Revolution are far FAR more capable than X-box 1, which incidentally does 720P on a very few select games. It is quite safe to assume this, even though we haven't seen any specs, because Nintendo has said time and time again that there won't be any huge visual differences between any of the consoles. Inference, sure - but not something that's hard to imagine. The only issue with HD is that there has to be an output to serve it. Component cables? The Rev will have those. As well, Nintendo said "you will be able to hook the Revolution up to your computer monitor" - which, to me, suggests that it also has VGA output. I'd say that there's quite a good chance that 720p will be an optional standard, unlike Microsoft, which forces 720p, developers will have the option with the Revolution. The reason that they have this option is likely because Nintendo is trying to attract indie developers with shoestring budgets, neither of which have the millions required to invest into X360 or PS3 development (especially PS3 development). My 2 cents.
Draax - Plug it into a regular CRT (i'm sure you have one around the house). If it lags, exchange the gamecube, as it's a faulty one. If it doesn't lag, either exchange your TV, or configure it accordingly. I've plugged the GC into many an HD projector, lcd, plasma, dlp, rear projection, and CRTs, NONE of which produced ANY lag whatsoever. And I'd be sensitive to those things.
As for HD - let me again say that we here who own HD home-theatres are in the 10%-ish minority that does. You can bet your ass that the ATI GPU and IBM CPU inside the Revolution are far FAR more capable than X-box 1, which incidentally does 720P on a very few select games. It is quite safe to assume this, even though we haven't seen any specs, because Nintendo has said time and time again that there won't be any huge visual differences between any of the consoles. Inference, sure - but not something that's hard to imagine. The only issue with HD is that there has to be an output to serve it. Component cables? The Rev will have those. As well, Nintendo said "you will be able to hook the Revolution up to your computer monitor" - which, to me, suggests that it also has VGA output. I'd say that there's quite a good chance that 720p will be an optional standard, unlike Microsoft, which forces 720p, developers will have the option with the Revolution. The reason that they have this option is likely because Nintendo is trying to attract indie developers with shoestring budgets, neither of which have the millions required to invest into X360 or PS3 development (especially PS3 development). My 2 cents.