Yup...its what they turned into and released the last few years...
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Gabe Newell On What Makes Valve Tick
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Yup...its what they turned into and released the last few years...
Meh, yeah, technically they are stand-alone products, sure. But to me they're all a different take on the Source-based HL2 multiplayer mode. Sure, different skins, some different gameplay modes etc. but to me they all feel like HL2 mods.
Day of Defeat, Team Fortress, Counter-Strike...all were basically (to me) HL multiplayer modes.
DotA 2, yeah, that's a different story.
Day of Defeat, Team Fortress, Counter-Strike...all were basically (to me) HL multiplayer modes.
DotA 2, yeah, that's a different story.
But there not. The coding and infrastructure behind a game like Left 4 Dead is wildly different from Team Fortress two. The only similarity is the engine.
Your essentially saying Bioshock is equivalent to Mass Effect because there all just mods built upon UE3.
Flogger23m
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Solidifies and maintains a Steam user base. Same idea is behind the Steam profile rank, trading cards, custom chat emoticons, ect. If people put $15 into an otherwise free game downloading program, they are less likely to give it up.
Their goal, just like any other company, is to make a profit.
I guess I don't understand the collective hard-on for a third Half-Life game, but then again, I tend to live by the guideline of trilogies: the first one is great, the second is generally considered just as good (or better) than the original, and the third one completely fucks the series. Again, this is a guideline and not law, so there are some exceptions to be considered (although not many). So, why not just leave it alone and bask in the nostalgia you have for the previous games?
I hate to quote a movie, but I think Harvey Dent said it best in TDK: "You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain..."
I hate to quote a movie, but I think Harvey Dent said it best in TDK: "You either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain..."
Ok, maybe I'm wrong about L4D - to be honest, I haven't played it. It does seem to have a separate campaign etc.
But I still maintain my opinion about all the other Source-games, like TF2, CS:GO, HL
eathmatch etc - just HL2 multiplayer modes.I don't think you could call Mass Effect a unique play mode of Bioshock or vice versa in the way you could call CS:GO a play mode of Half-Life.
LeninGHOLA
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TF2 doesn't play like multiplayer Half-Life. Neither does CS:GO.
kbrickley
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The only major benefit of a new Half Life game for me would be the addition of a new graphics engine into the crowded graphics field ... there are lots of shooters out there right now (and I am not as big an FPS person as I used to be) ... but a new engine might allow some of the other companies to crank out some interesting IP
I don't have any problem with Valve having a big focus on Steam since that is now my preferred gaming library ... expanding the Indie offerings, making it even more mod friendly, and expanding the secondary offerings (soundtracks, comics, books, utilities, etc) all increase its usefulness (in my book) ... I need a reliable and feature rich digital distributor much more than I need one more FPS game
I don't have any problem with Valve having a big focus on Steam since that is now my preferred gaming library ... expanding the Indie offerings, making it even more mod friendly, and expanding the secondary offerings (soundtracks, comics, books, utilities, etc) all increase its usefulness (in my book) ... I need a reliable and feature rich digital distributor much more than I need one more FPS game
To me TF2 plays like a sophisticated MP mode of HL2.
LeninGHOLA
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Regarding CS:GO, even the description on Steam says:
"Counter-Strike took the gaming industry by surprise when the unlikely MOD became the most played online PC action game in the world... CS: GO promises to expand on CS' award-winning gameplay...".
It has more differences than CoD 4 and CoD 10 do
Well, I do not have the same powers of foresight as you, but I'd tend to agree, except CoD 10 would probably at least come with a vastly new graphics engine
rudy
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What defines a mod? By your definition like 90% of all games ever made are a mod. Someone using valves engine, or valve themselves doing it to make a game that is COMPLETELY unrecognizable from halflife is not just a mod, the work that goes into it is a full game. In the modding community this is often called a total coversion, but what makes a total conversion any different than a whole game made by a studio that builds a game on the unreal engine? The answer is nothing. It is just a name but the actual work and quality of many of valves so called mods is vastly superior to the shovelware that professional studios pump out.
Sit any person who doesn't know about gaming down and ask them which is more similar, show them COD, BF and CS 3 games from different companies on different engines, then show them Halflife, Alien Swarm, TF2. Now ask them which ones look like who new games or which ones look like they were made by a different set of companies.
LeninGHOLA
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Well, I do not have the same powers of foresight as you, but I'd tend to agree, except CoD 10 would probably at least come with a vastly new graphics engine
CoD 10 is Ghosts.
D
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Well you should be saying that. Because EA hasn't improved the industry in a good while. Who cares what they did in the past. That can only be used so many times.
And boy are they good at it. If half the CEOs in America had the business sense of Mr. Newell, we wouldn't have the financial trainwreck that we have in this country.
have there been 10 already?! my bad, I didn't think about all the Black Ops and what-not.
But all those "HL mods" DO use HL engine and they're all shooters. The reason your test sample audience would make the decision you describe is because of the ART style more than because of anything else. BF4 and CoD (what's CS3) go for a realistic style, so yeah, they would easily be put together.
Also, I didn't include Alien Swarm in my messages. I don't even know that game, looks like some minor-release top-down shooter?
Look, all I'm saying is that in my eyes, Valve's gaming output is not that big and most of those popular games like CS:GO, TF2, Lost Coast (what was that even? a tech-demo?), Portal seem like variations on HL - an FPS on Source engine that does SOMETHING unique. TF2 has classes, Portal has portals, so lets make small games that utilise these key points as their core ideas. They do not feel to me like brand new, stand-alone, large AAA releases. I am not saying it's bad, I am just saying it's different and atypical of a major gaming studio and combined with Steam and now Steam-Machines makes Valve a very unique "gaming" studio. Like someone mentioned, they differ from Ubi or Blizzard, who release concrete, full-blown products, like Diablo 3, StarCraft 2, Assassin's Creed etc etc. You don't see those companies releasing "Team Soccer" which is basically about Terrans playing Zergs on a soccer field with unique skins (which, I think, is a SC2 mod, but that's beside the point).
LeninGHOLA
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Isn't Assassin's Creed 4 just a singleplayer mode for Assassin's Creed 1 I mean, it uses the same engine and it's a third person action/stealth game.
I mean, it uses the same engine and it's a third person action/stealth game.This. Valve thinks longterm. Theyre continually adding features to build a community atmosphere. Contrasted to Origin which is basically just a download manager well you see how far they've come.
And a lot of the features added in Steam were planting seeds for what would eventually be needed for the transition to living room space where they'd be competing with Xbox Live and PSN.
Isn't Assassin's Creed 4 just a singleplayer mode for Assassin's Creed 1
Not understanding you. AC1 was primarily a single-player game from what I know. Second, AC4 clearly sells itself as a sequel by keeping the name and adding 4 to it and it is meant to be the same style of a game, with some new features. I don't think anybody is denying it's ties to AC1. Finally, I'm pretty sure it's a new engine.
I think it appears this way because they've been working on a new game engine. Logic would also dictate that they've been working on a new game to debut it with as well. I'd suspect that Left 4 Dead 3 is going to be the debut game this time around, with Half Life 3 coming a little later in this engine's lifecycle.
LeninGHOLA
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No, I know. I'm just giving you crap.
Anyway, Valve even releases their SDK for these games, which is a big part of the reason tons of people are playing their games at any given point.
lol
yeah, no doubt they're doing tons of awesome stuff. Lets wait and hope something major comes out soon, especially with a new engine.
AMD T-type
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If I were you, I wouldn't bother with Titanfall, it's probably just another multiplayer mode of Half Life 2.
No edit button for front page news threads.
Dota 2 also runs on the Source engine though.
Dota 2 also runs on the Source engine though.
Hm, thanks to you, it seems I finally found the term to describe the type of games I was trying to describe. From the Titanfall devs:
"We didn't choose Source to make a "Source game"..."
"Source game" - that's it.
It seems I might have more interest in Titanfall (although I'm not really that hyped up by it - generally don't play MP-only games) because the dev says "...we chose it because its a great foundation to build our own technology on. In addition to everything we've added, we've made significant changes to the engine at all levels including major changes to parts that are not accessible to modders at all. We've rewritten or rearchitected major systems to support the needs of our game and our developers, including things like rendering, lighting, visibility, networking and tools pipelines."
So clearly a lot more incentive than in CS:GO or TF2 if only from the eye-candy perspective.
rudy
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I guess you just do not understand how most games are made. The most popular engine is the unreal engine and you would be surprised how many games fall under that engine. By your definition these games made by full blown studios are just mods. What valve does is no different than what most other studios are doing. Very few companies want to waste the time developing a new engine. Why would anyone want to reinvent the wheel? Did you also know that the frostbite engine was based off the unreal engine? Coding games is a fluid process and the vast, vast, vast majority of code is recycled constantly. If you want proof of this just look at strafe jumping or bunny hopping or whatever you call it. This is an artifact of almost every engine originally being based off id engines. This bug still pops up in games over a decade later. In fact I find your example of blizzard to be kind of ironic, what does blizzard produce? Every game I can think of is a top down control game which means they are reusing the same mechanics in all their games and even the art style in the games is fairly similar yet you give them credit for producing completely unique games even though everyone one of them looks very similar to ever other game. Now take Valve who makes Alien Swarm off the source engine a top down game, DoTa2, like blizzard, and still does possibly the widest array of FPS game styles in the industry. The one oddity about valve is that they want to get everyone on steam and buying from steam so in doing so they often price their AAA titles well below the industry average and even give many away for free.
The reality is that the definition of a mod, and a full game is not standard anyone who has done any actual game development understands this. What you are claiming is as meaningless as saying that a car and a truck which may share the same engine are just mods. An engine on a game is a joke almost all these companies are purchasing the same tech or copying the same tech from each other making the difference between 1 FPS engine and the next fairly trivial. Yet at the same time their are some indie and mod developers who do more work to an engine than full blown companies yet they rarely call their engines a new engine. In the end it is all just marketing, as time goes on engines have to support new features, but the base code and mechanics are all being recycled. If valve cannot live up to your standard of making many games then I highly doubt there is any company that meets your standard in existence today.
No edit button for front page news threads.
Dota 2 also runs on the Source engine though.
But it's not an FPS shooter, i.e. it's not just another "Source game" =)
D
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Psh, everyone knows every game made since 1996 has been a Quake mod. Every. Single. One.
Yeah Quake, wasn't that a Wolfenstein 3D multiplayer mod?
Actually I do, very well, and if you put some thought into what I'm trying to say you would not sum it up as a complaint that all these games use the Source engine.
I won't re-write what I wrote above. I'll just add that, even though Blizzard might be using the same TECHNOLOGY engine (a tool to render graphics, play sounds, control input) to make their games, each game is something completely different than the other in style, story, visuals..almost everything. SC2 - RTS, Diablo - ARPG, WoW - MMORPG etc, I'm sure you know.
I see most of those Valve games I mentioned before as fairly small releases and variations of their main FPS shooter, even their pricing reflects that (with the exception of maybe L4D, which seems to be the most proper stand-alone "Source game" in the bunch, so I admitted I should've left it out).
And why the Alien Swarm again?? I did say I agree to treat it as a game, just like DotA, probably because they're not another FPS iteration of Source. And using Source itself as the underlying engine has nothing to do with it.
You skipped a few mods, but yeah, more or less.Yeah Quake, wasn't that a Wolfenstein 3D multiplayer mod?
Of course, Carmack probably lifted some of that code from Commander Keen, so we've really all been playing the same heavily modded sidescroller for the last 20+ years.
OK, it has a LITTLE BIT to do with it, because part of the complaint here is that Valve's late on releasing a new engine to go along with a continuation of the HL story or even a new IP as opposed to releasing "Source games".
rudy
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So then its the rules of the game that make it different? I am sorry but you seem to think just because something is an FPS its just a mod, or its a small game or insignificant. Blizzard is doing more than just using the same tech, the art style is a half cartoonish art style repeated over and over top down. Now take valve, where you have realistic like CS to completely cartoon like TF. Class based games, what about rules? You have CTF vs DM, vs Coop, etc... The companies produce different games both of high quality but for 100% sure I know that valve makes way more than just 2 games and the only way you can dispute that is if you take every other company I can think of and make the same harsh criticism of them.
So at least now you have expanded Valves game making to Half-life, Alien Swam, and L4D and Dota by your own account that for whatever reason leaves out (TF one of the most popular games in the world and portal). So what currently released games does oh lets say blizzard have? WoW, Diablo, StarCraft, Warcraft and ? Well I guess that means that valve makes 4 games and so does blizzard.
Ehhh
It's not about the count either. Look, I'm running out of ways to really explain it. Valve's games like CS:GO, TF2, CS:Source, HL
M just seem to me like small FPS-Source-formula releases focused on particular play characteristics (like you mentioned - TF2-team play, Portal-puzzle with funky portals, etc). Yes, I understand they are fun, good and popular. They are separate entities and IPs as well for all intents and purposes - that's how they're sold.But none of these games are major releases like Half-Life 2. And this is a game I am waiting for from them. A release of that calibre. It doesn't even have to be HL3 or a shooter. I just don't want to see another minor variant of FPS-play, where you can now play as farm animals that can engineer bionics to enhance their jumping capabilities or whatever.
You might say - OK, so they gave you DotA 2 - ok, sure. Lets say DotA2 was a major release that's not a Source-based-shooter. Now lets get something similar, but with a full-blown single player campaign or a new IP or at least based on a new engine (but a new engine almost certainly calls for something huge like HL3 or a new IP).
I hope that's clearer.
I have come to an opinion about valve so let me pull up my soapbox for a few paragraphs.
They are now a large company like the other big boys who use a ULA and a TOS to play the old lawyer up card if you do not agree with anything they say or if you speak ill of the company, product or services.
So you don't like the terms and you say no thank you? I hope you don't disappear down that dark alley you just passed.
I feel the hayday of gaming is slipping past it's prime due to the simple fact that a person can no longer simply buy a game enjoy it and call it a day. Let's face it gaming as a whole is taken in more money than almost all the other entertainment industries (except for maybe the adult films.) This has given rise to an infested addled madcow cash disease which plows through a consumers rights or anything else for that matter.
Seems a social disease has spread and is prevailant in all businesses: buy the law to get what you want.
Please do not think I am trolling. I just have a very strong opinion about companies who use the F.U. card called we will see you in court!
They are now a large company like the other big boys who use a ULA and a TOS to play the old lawyer up card if you do not agree with anything they say or if you speak ill of the company, product or services.
So you don't like the terms and you say no thank you? I hope you don't disappear down that dark alley you just passed.
I feel the hayday of gaming is slipping past it's prime due to the simple fact that a person can no longer simply buy a game enjoy it and call it a day. Let's face it gaming as a whole is taken in more money than almost all the other entertainment industries (except for maybe the adult films.) This has given rise to an infested addled madcow cash disease which plows through a consumers rights or anything else for that matter.
Seems a social disease has spread and is prevailant in all businesses: buy the law to get what you want.
Please do not think I am trolling. I just have a very strong opinion about companies who use the F.U. card called we will see you in court!
kbrickley
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I don't think we can paint Valve with the same brush as EA and since they are still a private company (and don't seem to be in any hurry to become a public one) they don't have the same financial pressures as the far more annoying public companies they compete with
I don't have any problem with them trying to be a good business since companies that aren't good businesses don't stay in business ... Valve has done all right by me and by lots of other gamers ... I definitely don't see them taking the FU approach with most of their customers (although there are definitely some self entitled folks who want things that even a fairly understanding company cannot accomodate)
Its really funny hearing Gabe talk about all that talent that they attract. Is that talent sitting there watching and making sure Steam is up and running? Sure its important, but they are a gaming company. Its kind of silly hearing people talk about Gabe as if hes a gaming god. If he was then HL3 would be a priority. They fucked up LFD releases with lots of lost promises, so I hope it wont happen to HL series.
I hope I am wrong and they are hard and work on releasing HL3, but will all the talk of steam boxes and focusing mainly on steam makes me wonder. They certainly wouldnt be releasing HL3 for the money, because they are practically swimming in it from all Steam sales combined. Which is why I am tired of hearing of all the so called talent they are attracting. If they are then release some kind of hint of what you are working on, otherwise you will alienate people from your titles and go down the path of Duke Nukem.
I hope I am wrong and they are hard and work on releasing HL3, but will all the talk of steam boxes and focusing mainly on steam makes me wonder. They certainly wouldnt be releasing HL3 for the money, because they are practically swimming in it from all Steam sales combined. Which is why I am tired of hearing of all the so called talent they are attracting. If they are then release some kind of hint of what you are working on, otherwise you will alienate people from your titles and go down the path of Duke Nukem.