People who bought Medal of Honor got early access to the beta, but it was open to everyone a few days later.
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Gabe Newell isn't worried about piracy, and responds to Ubisoft's "95%" quote
- Thread starter Skizzy
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ummmmm use your words we don't need to read about your struggles to understand the concept here, you seem to be confused about the discussion.
nobody is arguing that free is not free, point being these features that mean nothing to you, are worth money to other people, so they would rather pay for them instead of waiting for patches to get cracked, or waiting for propers when someone screws up. the convenience of having the game downloaded installed and managed for you is much easier for some than fucking with torrents and extracting isos. when time and money is worthless to you, maybe you wouldn't care about waiting days/weeks to be able to play a game you could use right now, but most people don't want to deal with that.
some people have friends, that use steam community in game, nothing to do with sp or mp, just convenient when you have steam running and you don't need tabbing to other apps to find buddies playing the same games. support with developers is worth it when you can report actual bugs, instead of whining about your broken cracks among paying users like an idiot, while they laugh at noobs posting their problems with scene groups failing to bypass drm triggers.
this is much bigger than your latest addiction to some sp game like skyrim or whatever, we're talking about an entire market of games that only a real small minority would want to crack one at a time, the way I see it most people just want games that work, when they have time to play.
Bigtime. There is a reason why Steam has the biggest market share. Because he's smarter than the other publishers and was way ahead of the curve. And Steam shows that every day. Half the people I know who pirate games, they bought Skyrim even thought they could pirate it the same day. And quite a few people actually pirate only as a means to try the game out to see if it runs on their system or to see if they like it. You know, what PC gamers used to call DEMOS. We rarely, RARELY get demos today unless its from a indie dev. I bet if we started seeing more demos, it would cut down on piracy a bit as well.
Sure, there are going to be people who will pirate no matter what, you won't ever change that. Just like you will never change drug use by going to "war" against it. It's stupid and unrealistic. But I have over 100* games on my Steam account alone, not to mention D2D, Impulse, MMO's, etc, and I am broke lol. Bottom line, people will buy games even if they can pirate them. Just make good games. It's not that hard, just ask Ubishaft.....oh wait.
NukeDukem
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Yeah I just think that people who pirate a game were never going to buy it in the first place.
pigwalk
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure most of respondents to that poll were [H]'ers and if you think that we constitute the majority of PC gamers you're absolutely delusional.
Inate8
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Anyone who thinks that people who would pirate, never have any intention of buying the game are... well, you're fucking retarded.
That is exactly what many people I know do. Download, enjoy and put it on the wishlist. When they see a smoking deal they snatch it up.
They get to enjoy the game, AND support the companies. If they don't enjoy the game, then they don't end up playing it and they don't end up buying it.
There are those kinds of people. Studio's refuse to release demo's BEFORE the game's release(some do it months AFTER a game is on shelves, how stupid is that!?), so this is their only avenue of testing a game before buying it.
These days money is short, and people WANT to spend money on their entertainment, but they don't want to blow $60+ on a game only to find out it's garbage right out the gate(ala, the BF3 fiasco, that is STILL going on).
Yes there are those that will do it because it is free, and simple as that. There are always two sides(or more) to every situation. Pull your heads out of your asses and realize that the world isn't black and white.
That is exactly what many people I know do. Download, enjoy and put it on the wishlist. When they see a smoking deal they snatch it up.
They get to enjoy the game, AND support the companies. If they don't enjoy the game, then they don't end up playing it and they don't end up buying it.
There are those kinds of people. Studio's refuse to release demo's BEFORE the game's release(some do it months AFTER a game is on shelves, how stupid is that!?), so this is their only avenue of testing a game before buying it.
These days money is short, and people WANT to spend money on their entertainment, but they don't want to blow $60+ on a game only to find out it's garbage right out the gate(ala, the BF3 fiasco, that is STILL going on).
Yes there are those that will do it because it is free, and simple as that. There are always two sides(or more) to every situation. Pull your heads out of your asses and realize that the world isn't black and white.
I think Gabe is bit of a hypocrite for saying DRM is the wrong way to go when Steam is not just a gaming service but also a DRM client. I can't even mod many games in Steam without Steam overwriting the mods because they set up that "do not update this game" option so that the publisher can override it and force an update. Steam is DRM!
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Gabe said:
Precisely where did he say DRM is the wrong way to go?
Steam is DRM, however it's also a service, and that's what he's saying. If you're going to put on DRM, make it more attractive than piracy. Of course there are drawbacks to Steam, but having easy access to my entire library on a cloud server, games that backup saves and settings offsite, access to indie content that would have never really seen the light of day, effortless patching, screen shot capture/hosting, integrated voice and chat system....for all of it's drawbacks it has a lot going for it too. That's his whole point, provide an attractive enough product that people prefer it to piracy.
Also, exactly how does it get in the way of game mods? I've played tons of mods on Steam games....
If you don't think the benefits are worth the restrictions, don't use it, and maybe they'll try to add even more benefits to change your mind. I think we all prefer companies trying to win us over instead of Ubisoft's declaration of war against their paying customers.
"The quality of the Anno franchise is inarguable, and they have released some quality exclusives now and then on the platform. But most of these software contain one type of DRM or the other, and it’s confusing why Ubisoft chooses to go this route."
Sounds to me like he is saying he is anti-DRM when Steam is DRM. Some game publishers make their titles Steam exclusive just because it is a DRM solution and no other reason. Skyrim , Shogun2, DoW2, etc. I'll continue to buy games from Steam but I don't drink the purple Kool-Aid.
Sounds to me like he is saying he is anti-DRM when Steam is DRM. Some game publishers make their titles Steam exclusive just because it is a DRM solution and no other reason. Skyrim , Shogun2, DoW2, etc. I'll continue to buy games from Steam but I don't drink the purple Kool-Aid.
scojer
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Lol, that's what I meant when I put "[H]ard", which meant mostly us, the [H]'ers. Statistics on a small scale!
MrGuvernment
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your comparing steam DRM to say Always On / Connected UbiSoft DRM ? lets not get into the other crap they have used like SecureROM root kits and so on........
"But most of these software contain one type of DRM or the other"
He is not talking about always on DRM only, he is talking about all DRM. I expect persoanlly he is opposed to all DRM but that is not what Steam offers in the least. Steam can be quite annoying at times. I own one of the Anno games and it has limited activations but not always on DRM.
He is not talking about always on DRM only, he is talking about all DRM. I expect persoanlly he is opposed to all DRM but that is not what Steam offers in the least. Steam can be quite annoying at times. I own one of the Anno games and it has limited activations but not always on DRM.
Steam isn't DRM-free, and we'll see how they do with GOG's greater entry into recent titles.
But it's more reasonable, and Ubi's DRM got wrecked, anyway.
If Steam DRM is like celery in chicken noodle soup, bad DRM is like serving raw celery with no topping while charging for soup.
But it's more reasonable, and Ubi's DRM got wrecked, anyway.
If Steam DRM is like celery in chicken noodle soup, bad DRM is like serving raw celery with no topping while charging for soup.
Steam's "DRM" consists of keeping the steam client running while you're playing, which I'd want anyways because of the friends list and in game browser. That's hardly what I call DRM.
Hardly what you'd call DRM? Really exactly what part of it doesn't make it DRM? Just because you like it does not mean it isn't DRM. It IS DRM period.
It is by far one of the least obtrusive, easiest to deal with DRMs out there. Steam is the way that I buy games. I don't even notice the "DRM" because I have steam running whenever my computer is on anyways.
yes it's a bit ambiguous and self serving but he has a point. steam drm should not be grouped in the same category as others, and people should know the difference. when they choose to use orbit or securom or tages and layer it over steam, it no longer functions the same way it would if they were to use just the client. this kind of overbearing protection prevents people from installing the game where they want, and playing offline as steam drm would normally allow. that's why people like it, there's no "kool-aid" involved when we have rational reasons for supporting one method over the other.
he would do well to choose his words wisely, people hate bullshit just as much as drm.
the key here is in the protection scheme and what restrictions they choose to enforce, which isn't all that much tbh. what can't you do besides sell or transfer the license? there are clear differences that set it apart from other schemes with way more restrictions. the whole purpose of drm is just to prevent unauthorised exchange, and they do just that, without preventing you from using it how you want.
I tend to keep Steam running all the time as well, but nothing you have said disputes the fact that Steam is a form of DRM. Steam is actually one of the most restrictive forms of DRM around, but Valve has designed it well enough that in most cases it isn't noticeable.
nobody_here
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somewhere around the same time you grow up and stop putting so much emphasis on video games is around the same time you will stop putting so much emphasis on "friends" seeing you online playing a video game......hardly what I call worth paying for
The Friends feature isn't about showing off, it's about communicating with other people. And it's not something you have to pay for, since the Steam overlay can be used with any non-Steam game simply by adding the game to the Steam games list.
piscian18
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There was a time when steam was a pain in the ass with games not launching properly, having to do repairs and what not but I really haven't had any problems with Steam in years.
I keep hearing this bs about how we owe EA the same courtesy that steam but that does jib with me.
Origin is a pain in the dick. I've had to completely redownload most of my games at least once because their download service is crap. That's never happened with steam. Not even in the early days.
and Battlelog...OMFG it's the worst service I've ever seen. God give me the fucking BC2 browser back. I've had some many weird fucking crashes and " you've been disconnected from EA online" alerts some days it'll take me an hour to get into a decent game of BF3 and then after I've completed a round I'm so exhausted from the bullshit I just go play something else and I've asked, all my 50 something battlelog friends run into the same everyday.
I'm ok with DRM. Just don't make it so painful I don't even wanna fucking play.
oh fuck me it erased my install when it was repairing. &%)&%%_%_ gonna go play Serious Sam.
Plague_Injected
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Steam is really only a pain in the ass if you get a Steamworks game and have a slow Internet connection. Steam doesn't let you touch the game until all of the updates have been downloaded, and in the case of games that have been out for a while, are usually 100s of MB in size.
PrincessFrosty
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Steam does have DRM components but then it's a digital distribution service and for it to work they have to protect their platform which in my opinion is reasonable. Much like you would put down a deposit on a car if you were renting it, there's some minimum levels of safety you have to have in your business model to protect it.
The DRM in steam is pretty mild considering what lengths they could go to, in fact it's mostly transparent to the user, and I think most people accept this level of DRM as simply the norm
However with store bought titles you expect to own your game, in the same way you'd expect to own your car if you simply bought it from a dealer, you don't want the dealer to be updated every time you drive the car to ensure you still own a legitimate copy of their car, that's just dumb, you've paid for it right?
Gabe is always talking about games as a service and that's what steam is, it's a service to the gamers, steam comes with many value added features and is not merely a platform to send you game files. Afterall a digital distribution service could easily just allow you to download the game files once and that's it, never allow it again, in the same way you buy 1 dvd from a store and never get a 2nd.
Like it or not peoples expectations are different in each circumstance, to some people like me mild DRM is acceptable with steam because when I buy in to steam as a service I understand they have to protect their business model, so having to sign in to their service to play my games seems reasonable.
If I buy a game from a store my expectations are that I own that disc and from then on the developers/publishers have nothing to do with me, I've proved that I've bought the game because I've gone to a store, got a physical disc, got a unique CD key.
Steam inherently has to have DRM in it, it's a public service available to anyone and if there wasn't security behind it to enable authentication of accounts and verify who is who, then people would just steal steam games en masse, it would be like a physical store with no security cameras or tag detectors that just allowed public on the street to walk in, take a copy off the shelf and walk out.
collegeboy69us
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You must be very out of touch with reality and the financial vs psychological issue of piracy.
Best example I can give is my own life -- like so many other people I was super excited for the new Duke Nukem to FINALLY be released, I was willing to pay for it, however due to past experiences of being burned badly on crap games for huge amounts of money, I waited.
Guess what -- I saved myself 50 dollars that otherwise would have PISSED me off. I played the game for about 3 hours and then just said "this sucks" uninstalled and deleted.
The rest of the world agrees with me -- look at the price and popularity it's sitting at on steam, in 6 months it went from being a hotly anticipated game to bargain bin 6 dollars on a steam sale.
There is a fundamental flaw with a developer who makes a shitty port/buggy game and then expects everyone to lap it up for 60 bucks . At the first sign of a game performing poorly due to either crappy development, marketing, or management the "go to" excuse is piracy.
I love paying for something that's worth it, paid full price for Forza 4, BF3, Saints Row3 ,and would do it all over again because these games simply WORK and are fun. I picked up Orcs Must Die with all DLC for 5 dollars, and if i knew it was this fun I'd have paid three times that.
If you make a crappy game that's no fun, and then sprinkle on uber restrictive DRM then it's your own damn fault if the game gets pirated/passed around like a 2 dollar whore and then discarded.
We've all noticed the decline of the classic "DEMO" that used to be everywhere for every piece of software 10 years ago. The fact that most big game companies refused to release a free demo tells me they know their game sucks but want to bilk me for 50-60 dollars for me to find out. Nuts to them.
In a rigged system where the only way to find out if a piece of software is worth a damn is to pay in full with no chance of a refund, piracy is a byproduct of economics.
I have a pretty extensive Steam Games collection so you can't say that I'm some sort of evil leech on society, but for those of us that don't have money falling out our ass, if we are to spend 50-80-100 dollars on a game we are going to be sure it's worth a damn.
You know, instead of pirating you could actually wait for reviews on a game?
No one is forcing you to buy a game without knowing what it will be like. Hell, you can fucking watch people stream the damn game if you want to 'get' what it's like.
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This thread is taking up too much of our time.
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