Futuristic Riot Gear

Brantoc said:
Watch Future Weapons episode on Dragonscale. It's about as close as it comes.
They unload a MP5 clip, several .45 rounds, AK, and M4 at it, then detonate a grenade under it.

Now you will be hurt, but live.
Separately it has been tested with a .50 at less than 100 yards and passed.
Click to expand...



1. That episode was effectivly a paid advertisement for Pinnacle Armor.

2. I have no idea why people keep saying the armor wasnt destroyed when put onto a grenade. If you lay on a grenade, your going to die, dragonskin or not. The close proximity blast wave would shred your heart and other internal organs, you dont need shrapnel for that.

3. I havent heard or seen a test using (or defeating for that matter) a .50 BMG round...that would be interesting. Especially if they were to test with SLAP rounds.

Now with all that said. I would still prefer to wear dragonskin rathar than the Interceptor or the MTV....mainly for flexibility. It may be heavier....but with all the extra stuff (side plates and DAPS) we put on the interceptors...I dont think the wieght difference would be all that great. Plus all that stuff makes you about as flexible as a lawn knome.
 
Ockie said:
Like I said, it will depend on your definition of a bullet, definition of "proof". A tank round will clean house, a depleted uranium bullet from a plane will clean house, a rail gun bullet will clean house... it depends on your definitions. Now I never said that this armor can't stop hand gun rounds, I was simply commenting on the statement made.
Click to expand...

Exactly. Also depends on how many rounds and the spacing of those rounds. There are a several specifications and levels for a bullet proof vest. Within those specifications and levels there are also different materials depending on your preference. Police wear "bullet proof” vests that are only rated for some handguns. Rifles, magnum handguns, and handgun cartridges out of a rifle platform require armor plates. The more powerful the round you want to stop the thicker the plates get. For example, military vests are not full Class 4 vests. Class 4 requires that it stop 30.06 AP. The military decided that no one shoots that at them, so they went for something between that could stop the most powerful Russian AP round: 7.62x54R. Saves money and several pounds of weight.

Test procedures are particularly important too. A vest like most police wear (Kevlar, no ballistic plates) passes just fine when "worn" by something semi rigid and movable, fails with a solid object. The human body and its structure are a vital part of these vests.

Want to learn about the various vest ratings? Look here: http://www.bulletproofme.com/


Watch Future Weapons episode on Dragonscale. It's about as close as it comes.
They unload a MP5 clip, several .45 rounds, AK, and M4 at it, then detonate a grenade under it.

Now you will be hurt, but live.
Separately it has been tested with a .50 at less than 100 yards and passed.
Click to expand...

You are testing a vest with a rifle plate. The .45's are pointless. Most vests without plates stop those. The MP5 (pistol rounds out of a rifle...basically), AK, and M4 require an armor plate. The current military vests stop those too. Multiple rounds are part of the specification.

.50 what? .50AE? .50Beowolf? .50BMG? There are a lot of .50 caliber rounds. I'll assume .50bmg since that is what most people mean when they say .50 caliber. Truth be told, .50bmg isn't all that impressive of a round. With the right bullet it can take out light armor, but hasn't been able to kill a tank or anything close since pre-WWI. .50bmg just happens to be the biggest rifle you, as a civilian in the USA, can purchase like any other rifle. There are 20mm cannons, but since 1968 they require lots of paperwork and LOTS of money (how does a $200 tax and registering every round + the cost of the round sound?). Want to see one? Check this out: http://www.anzioironworks.com/

Check out the picture of the .50bmg next to the 20mm. It looks tiny.

The bullet matters. I saw a test once where at close range <100yds they shot an armor grade steel plate with 5.56x45 M855 (.223 Remington/SS109 for civis) and .50bmg. .50bmg bounced off of it and just left a dent. The 5.56 went right though. Why? M855 is our standard round for the M4/M16. It has a steel AP in the tip. The .50bmg was standard MG ball ammo (lead core, copper jacket...often called FMJ). Use AP, API, or Raufoss rounds in the .50bmg and they would have gone clean through that plate at a 1000yds.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raufoss_Mk_211
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M855

Don't get me wrong, .50bmg is nice, but just like the .45acp round used in the 1911, there is a lot of myth surrounding it too.
 
Grahamkracka said:
1. That episode was effectivly a paid advertisement for Pinnacle Armor.

2. I have no idea why people keep saying the armor wasnt destroyed when put onto a grenade. If you lay on a grenade, your going to die, dragonskin or not. The close proximity blast wave would shred your heart and other internal organs, you dont need shrapnel for that.

3. I havent heard or seen a test using (or defeating for that matter) a .50 BMG round...that would be interesting. Especially if they were to test with SLAP rounds.

Now with all that said. I would still prefer to wear dragonskin rathar than the Interceptor or the MTV....mainly for flexibility. It may be heavier....but with all the extra stuff (side plates and DAPS) we put on the interceptors...I dont think the wieght difference would be all that great. Plus all that stuff makes you about as flexible as a lawn knome.
Click to expand...

The problem with the dragonscale is its failure modes are really bad. In idealized testing it does very well. However, once you start moving, even "substandard' rounds can defeat it. Think of it this way. Remember chain mail armor? Allowed you to move, but stretch the links so that there is spacing (which is how it lets you move), your protection goes down. Dragonscale has the same problem. All those little plates work well when they support each other, plus you can move well. Bend, twist, etc. and then get shot and it is bad news. Interesting concept that needs more work.

It's engineering, pick your tradeoffs and live with it.
 
Depends on the type of .50 BMG your talking about. There are armor piercing variants of it.
 
gunderwood said:
The problem with the dragonscale is its failure modes are really bad. In idealized testing it does very well. However, once you start moving, even "substandard' rounds can defeat it. Think of it this way. Remember chain mail armor? Allowed you to move, but stretch the links so that there is spacing (which is how it lets you move), your protection goes down. Dragonscale has the same problem. All those little plates work well when they support each other, plus you can move well. Bend, twist, etc. and then get shot and it is bad news. Interesting concept that needs more work.

It's engineering, pick your tradeoffs and live with it.
Click to expand...

True. I still wear the interceptor. It is a proven armor system, Iv seen it work. But theres always something better.
 
Grahamkracka said:
True. I still wear the interceptor. It is a proven armor system, Iv seen it work. But theres always something better.
Click to expand...

Yes. You build a better vest, I'll build a better gun. It never ends. In the end, war is a dangerous business. Sometimes it has to be done. Choose the equipment that suits your needs the best, while having the fewest drawbacks. My sportscar is worthless offroad...:cool:
 
Thanks to those who offered educational replies to my question.

Re: intimidation, I think the most intimidating feature of all is the crotch protector. "Don't crotch-butt me, bro!"

Impresses the ladies, too--"Si, senorita, it's a tight fit, but they don't make a larger one..."
 
gunderwood said:
Exactly. Also depends on how many rounds and the spacing of those rounds. There are a several specifications and levels for a bullet proof vest. Within those specifications and levels there are also different materials depending on your preference. Police wear "bullet proof” vests that are only rated for some handguns. Rifles, magnum handguns, and handgun cartridges out of a rifle platform require armor plates. The more powerful the round you want to stop the thicker the plates get. For example, military vests are not full Class 4 vests. Class 4 requires that it stop 30.06 AP. The military decided that no one shoots that at them, so they went for something between that could stop the most powerful Russian AP round: 7.62x54R. Saves money and several pounds of weight.

Test procedures are particularly important too. A vest like most police wear (Kevlar, no ballistic plates) passes just fine when "worn" by something semi rigid and movable, fails with a solid object. The human body and its structure are a vital part of these vests.

Want to learn about the various vest ratings? Look here: http://www.bulletproofme.com/




You are testing a vest with a rifle plate. The .45's are pointless. Most vests without plates stop those. The MP5 (pistol rounds out of a rifle...basically), AK, and M4 require an armor plate. The current military vests stop those too. Multiple rounds are part of the specification.

.50 what? .50AE? .50Beowolf? .50BMG? There are a lot of .50 caliber rounds. I'll assume .50bmg since that is what most people mean when they say .50 caliber. Truth be told, .50bmg isn't all that impressive of a round. With the right bullet it can take out light armor, but hasn't been able to kill a tank or anything close since pre-WWI. .50bmg just happens to be the biggest rifle you, as a civilian in the USA, can purchase like any other rifle. There are 20mm cannons, but since 1968 they require lots of paperwork and LOTS of money (how does a $200 tax and registering every round + the cost of the round sound?). Want to see one? Check this out: http://www.anzioironworks.com/

Check out the picture of the .50bmg next to the 20mm. It looks tiny.

The bullet matters. I saw a test once where at close range <100yds they shot an armor grade steel plate with 5.56x45 M855 (.223 Remington/SS109 for civis) and .50bmg. .50bmg bounced off of it and just left a dent. The 5.56 went right though. Why? M855 is our standard round for the M4/M16. It has a steel AP in the tip. The .50bmg was standard MG ball ammo (lead core, copper jacket...often called FMJ). Use AP, API, or Raufoss rounds in the .50bmg and they would have gone clean through that plate at a 1000yds.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raufoss_Mk_211
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M855

Don't get me wrong, .50bmg is nice, but just like the .45acp round used in the 1911, there is a lot of myth surrounding it too.
Click to expand...


... I don't know you, but I already like you ;):eek:

QFT.
 
[BOLD]Ockie[/BOLD] Thanks. I hardly ever post, but I read often. There are so many myths, hype, and misinformation surrounding firearms (since any lawabidding citizen in the USA can have them, it is a hot topic), that I will post then.

To be technically accurate, I should state that .50bmg is the largest, current U.S. military rifle you can buy without special background checks and paperwork. The Russians have a .50bmg equivalant and of course there are dangerous game firearms. I was just self limiting to the [off]-topic in my previous post.
 
I believe them to be posed figures yes. The lighting, the plastic look, the hand positions and feet positions on all of them...mostly the lighting isn't natural. Someone stated they all have different faces...so did GI Joe's...not a hard task for a modeller.
 
I love the advancement of technology and all but all these sci-fi announcements mean squat if it is not readily available for use.
 
something to think about, this armor isn't designed to stop bullets, only glass bottles, hippie fists, junk like that. its more like brawling armor than combat armor.
 
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