Full tower cases, need help

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christpunchersg

Limp Gawd
Joined
Feb 14, 2008
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208
Going to get myself a brand new PC, i7 with a few HDDs and a gtx 285.

Not looking for watercooling but I need a case that can allow me to try that in the future.

I would like to have a large size full tower (server) type cases where I can fit in a lot of HDDs and expand to dual/tri graphics cards if I ever go down that route. My main areas of concerns are expandability (space), and low noise.

Not looking to spend more than I need to. If money was not a problem I would just get the ABS Canyon/Lian-Li PC-X2000 and be done with it but I think even then it would be overkill.

I've been looking at the A7110 but people say it's not as good as the A70 which while doesn't have the hot swappable SATA cages it does have better HDD anti-vibration.

Can anyone give me some recommendation for which cases I should be looking at? I don't want to spend more than $300~ but if there is something really good I will be more than willing to spend an extra hundred to get the additional features.
 
christpunchersg said:
The reviews are mostly good but what do you think of the noise level coming out of this case? Does it shake and rattle or is everything properly damped right out of the box?
Click to expand...

I would guess it's fairly quite, I mean it is a high end Lian Li after all.

The 120mm fans should be almost inaudible and if you have a reasonably quiet video card, your overall system should be very quiet.
 
I just bought a Cooler Master RC-840 with intent to watercool. The Lian Li is about $30-60 cheaper, and arguably just as well if not better built, but these aren't $50 Antecs. At that point it's much a question of personal preference.
 
christpunchersg said:
The reviews are mostly good but what do you think of the noise level coming out of this case? Does it shake and rattle or is everything properly damped right out of the box?
Click to expand...
Attachment of side panel's top edge is little loose but nothing what mass damping doesn't stop...
In general with silencing as goal I would recommend adding at least mass damping (except with Antec P18x which is only properly factory damped case) and that applies also to thin steel cases because only elastic suspension would fully insulate HDD vibration. (also bad fans generate vibration)

But for silencing A71 is clearly better. Door dampens intake fan/component noises quite a lot by blocking direct noise escape path (gives less noise/higher fan RPM for more cooling) and makes design about the quietest after Antec P18x but because of light weight of aluminum damping mats are required for realizing that capability.
And don't worry about adding some weight, after generous installing of combination mat (with 2.2mm bitumen layer) weight was still scant 12kg (26lb) which is well below weight of lot smaller P182 and other full towers without damping and mostly with lack of silencing features.
There's mat also in lower part of door and in both sides between case frame and that black part forming face behind door:

Completed PC has seven HDDs (4xWD6401AALS, 2x WD5000AAKS + WD4000KD, all AAM disabled) and with door closed only way to hear their seek noises is by listening from very close to case...
So I'm now making circuit/wiring for HDD access LED of case to be controlled by both motherboard and 3ware RAID card for knowing when there's HDD access going. :p
 
I like my CM 840, but had a few issues with some of the build quality. Not sure if I would pick the LL over it though. For me the question would be about the quality of specific parts over the 840. Are the side panels thicker on the LL? This is one of the short falls on the 840, I need to contact CM about a replacement for the one damaged in shipping (small dent near the front edge). Does the LL have a "built-in" vibration dampener on the PSU hole? The 840 doesn't by my (significantly) cheaper CM 690 did.

I will say that the 840 is dead quiet. Without any extra dampening material it is about 100x quieter than my CM 690. Also, the ball-bearings on the mobo tray are great - much better than the metal on metal scraping on my TJ07.

Ninja edit: I would not recommend getting a TJ07 until SS makes some much needed corrections to the design. It costs more than the LL and CM and has some major flaws.
 
E.T said:
Attachment of side panel's top edge is little loose but nothing what mass damping doesn't stop...
In general with silencing as goal I would recommend adding at least mass damping (except with Antec P18x which is only properly factory damped case) and that applies also to thin steel cases because only elastic suspension would fully insulate HDD vibration. (also bad fans generate vibration)

But for silencing A71 is clearly better. Door dampens intake fan/component noises quite a lot by blocking direct noise escape path (gives less noise/higher fan RPM for more cooling) and makes design about the quietest after Antec P18x but because of light weight of aluminum damping mats are required for realizing that capability.
And don't worry about adding some weight, after generous installing of combination mat (with 2.2mm bitumen layer) weight was still scant 12kg (26lb) which is well below weight of lot smaller P182 and other full towers without damping and mostly with lack of silencing features.
There's mat also in lower part of door and in both sides between case frame and that black part forming face behind door:

Completed PC has seven HDDs (4xWD6401AALS, 2x WD5000AAKS + WD4000KD, all AAM disabled) and with door closed only way to hear their seek noises is by listening from very close to case...
So I'm now making circuit/wiring for HDD access LED of case to be controlled by both motherboard and 3ware RAID card for knowing when there's HDD access going. :p
Click to expand...

Where did you get that sound dampening material?
 
the HAF 932 is an amazing case. Tons of room and very easy to work in.




thats my HAF there
 
EndersShadow said:
Where did you get that sound dampening material?
Click to expand...
From Germany... such expensive here in Finland.
That dark/black mat is current Bequiet Noise Absorber and greyish piece of patterned mat below motherboard older version of it which has little thinner foam with honeycomb pattern instead of fabric surface.
With side panels alone taking one packet and little more full coverage needs ~2½ packets. I had one "sheet" left from two packets but also used maybe three sheets of older mat which was left over from previous case project.
(mat below PSU position is very little effective thin Akasa mat but have sheets of it floating useless so put it in there because those real damping mats would have left less airspace)
What I know BeQuiet mats aren't available in US but there are few European shops which sell to outside EU.

Nexus Damptek is similar combination mat using different mass loading material and with thinner foam.
Sheets included in one packet have bigger area than those of BeQuiet but one packet wouldn't be enough for A71 and that one packet costs twice the BeQuiet's price. (and thicker materials are never bad in sound insulation)

DIY version would be first installing common bitumen mat and then gluing some sound absorption foam material on top of it.

Ragenrok said:
the HAF 932 is an amazing case. Tons of room and very easy to work in.
Click to expand...
And as quiet as car's engine with hood open.
Just like Antec 1200 and all magpie's nest cases.

Also most toolless 5.25" systems are rather bad because most fan controllers are short devices and need full compliment of screw holes for attaching them securely.
vanilla_guerilla said:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811233026
actually i have had one of these and the build quality is as good if not better than lian li imo.
Click to expand...
Build quality might be that but features look more about 50 dollar case with stamped fan vents, questionable airflow arrangements and hard HDD mounting.
Well, at least noise leaking side has some use in that case because front end can't really act as air intake.
 
Just a pic to showcase the room in an Antec 1200... I love this thing.

083.jpg
 
E.T said:
Attachment of side panel's top edge is little loose but nothing what mass damping doesn't stop...
In general with silencing as goal I would recommend adding at least mass damping (except with Antec P18x which is only properly factory damped case) and that applies also to thin steel cases because only elastic suspension would fully insulate HDD vibration. (also bad fans generate vibration)

But for silencing A71 is clearly better. Door dampens intake fan/component noises quite a lot by blocking direct noise escape path (gives less noise/higher fan RPM for more cooling) and makes design about the quietest after Antec P18x but because of light weight of aluminum damping mats are required for realizing that capability.
And don't worry about adding some weight, after generous installing of combination mat (with 2.2mm bitumen layer) weight was still scant 12kg (26lb) which is well below weight of lot smaller P182 and other full towers without damping and mostly with lack of silencing features.
There's mat also in lower part of door and in both sides between case frame and that black part forming face behind door:

Completed PC has seven HDDs (4xWD6401AALS, 2x WD5000AAKS + WD4000KD, all AAM disabled) and with door closed only way to hear their seek noises is by listening from very close to case...
So I'm now making circuit/wiring for HDD access LED of case to be controlled by both motherboard and 3ware RAID card for knowing when there's HDD access going. :p
Click to expand...

Looks nice, that's the A71 in the photo am I right?

What's the difference between A70 and A71?

I want to go higher up but after reading some reviews on newegg I think the A70 is probably the best value per dollar.
 
christpunchersg said:
Looks nice, that's the A71 in the photo am I right?

What's the difference between A70 and A71?
Click to expand...
Yep.
Only physical difference is door and changes required by it. (front face attached by screws instead of spring loaded clips because of weight of heavy door)
http://www.nordichardware.com/skrivelser_img/532/A71_5.jpg
http://www.virtual-hideout.net/reviews/Lian_Li_PC-A70/05.jpg

Noisewise difference is much bigger. (no going back to case without door anymore)
Already difference in intake fan noise between door open and closed is probably nearly "couple hundred RPMs" which translates to 25-30% higher airflow using SPCR's measurements of fan at those speeds.


TotalLamer said:
Just a pic to showcase the room in an Antec 1200... I love this thing.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v339/Inuyasha32/083.jpg
Click to expand...
Don't manipulate picture by cropping important parts away...
Just where is that supposed room around graphic cards or between motherboard and drive bays?
 
E.T said:
And as quiet as car's engine with hood open.
Just like Antec 1200 and all magpie's nest cases.

Also most toolless 5.25" systems are rather bad because most fan controllers are short devices and need full compliment of screw holes for attaching them securely.
Click to expand...

Actually, no. The fans are extremely quiet, they only run at 19db due to the size and low rpm's. The tool-less drive bay system works very good but there are screw holes with included screws if you choose/need them.

The only thing that wouldn't work for the thread poster would be the fact that the case does not have fan filters.
 
drew630 said:
Actually, no. The fans are extremely quiet, they only run at 19db due to the size and low rpm's.
Click to expand...
You also believe to horoscopes? Only thing marketing clowns tell thruthfully about fans is size and RPM, rest is BS measured from other side of city or from where ever they happened to leave measuring instruments.
Also case fans are only one part of equation and that kind leaky frame for holes case will never be quiet unless components inside it are very quiet which is quite incompatible with high performance components. (tried that in more sound insulating CM Stacker)
TriCools themselves aren't even that good.
 
E.T said:
You also believe to horoscopes? Only thing marketing clowns tell thruthfully about fans is size and RPM, rest is BS measured from other side of city or from where ever they happened to leave measuring instruments.
Also case fans are only one part of equation and that kind leaky frame for holes case will never be quiet unless components inside it are very quiet which is quite incompatible with high performance components. (tried that in more sound insulating CM Stacker)
TriCools themselves aren't even that good.
Click to expand...

Nope, I believe in what I own. Compared to my friends 1200, my HAF is much quieter. No, fans don't make-up all of the noise in a case, but they do make up quiet a bit of it. Also, with the vibration pads things on the hard-drive racks, I never hear them. I will agree that it isn't a silent case, you can hear the gpu fan when it's running high, but turn that down and you just barely hear the case fans chugging along at full speed.

As for the thread, the thread poster wants a case that 1.) can be fitted for water-cooling in the future (the HAF was even designed for this kit and even a triple rad internally), 2.) can accommodate many HDD's (up to 5 internally, 6 with the eSATA port), 3.) low- noise (which the HAF is IMO).

The HAF was clearly a good suggestion by Ragenrok. :D

P.S., I don't know where the dust filter thing came from in my previous post. I think I may have gotten my threads mixed up. :p
 
Okay guys I've ordered the A71 today and will be picking up in 2 weeks. Hopefully I've made the right choice. Thank you.
 
christpunchersg said:
Okay guys I've ordered the A71 today and will be picking up in 2 weeks. Hopefully I've made the right choice. Thank you.
Click to expand...
If you need any installing/modding hints just ask here or send PM.
For starters you can remove those full length card supports and most of those horizontal bars in frame holding "mid case" fans between HDD cage and motherboard. (no use for extra impedance for creating more turbulence noise and lowering airflow)


drew630 said:
2.) can accommodate many HDD's (up to 5 internally, 6 with the eSATA port)
Click to expand...
That few... couldn't fit really anything else than primary "disk" made by RAID10 array.
(total 7 HDDs)
 
E.T said:
If you need any installing/modding hints just ask here or send PM.
For starters you can remove those full length card supports and most of those horizontal bars in frame holding "mid case" fans between HDD cage and motherboard. (no use for extra impedance for creating more turbulence noise and lowering airflow)


That few... couldn't fit really anything else than primary "disk" made by RAID10 array.
(total 7 HDDs)
Click to expand...

I just got the case today, it's beautiful, everything is solid and created with some critical thinking. Feels like a "man's" toy and not a child's toy if you get my drift.

I will be mounting the PSU on the bottom instead of on top. Can I remove the upper back HDD case as I have no use for it? I still want to keep the fan up there however, so is there any way to keep it there without the HDD case?

What horizontal bar are you speaking of? I have those little white colored slot holder things infront of the two fans in the "mid case", can those be removed or are they useful for something?
 
Cases like the HAF and Antec 1200 are some of the ugliest I have ever seen in my life. Seriously, the HAF looks like someone shat on the drawing board and they decided that it kind of looked like a case.

The Lian Li A71 is sheer beauty, and so is the ACTS 840 for that matter. Do CM have 2 different design departments or what?
 
And also looks serious and not some plasticky bling bling/christmas tree.

christpunchersg said:
I will be mounting the PSU on the bottom instead of on top. Can I remove the upper back HDD case as I have no use for it? I still want to keep the fan up there however, so is there any way to keep it there without the HDD case?
Click to expand...
Fan is mounted into HDD cage so removing it also removes fan and would require attaching fan somehow into there. Unless you're needing that space for something there's really no need to remove that HDD cage. (although attaching fan directly there would make it easier to change later)
But if you want to remove it IIRC there's just enough space to remove it without removing "roof"... removing which takes only as long as it takes to unscrew four screws.

What horizontal bar are you speaking of? I have those little white colored slot holder things infront of the two fans in the "mid case", can those be removed or are they useful for something?
Click to expand...
Those plastic supports aren't needed unless you somehow happen to own full length expansion cards (makes graphics cards look short) so obviously they go immediately into that accessory part/screw packet.
After that it's easier to cut away those cross bars of frame holding those plastic supports resulting lower airflow impedance. Some of those I left for retaining most strength of it:

While it doesn't show I left strip on right side of intake fans without damping mat for being able to remove/change fan without removing HDD cage.
Like shown front has good places for damping mats and because I don't like the idea of water near non water-proof electronics at all I also covered top with same thoroughness. That part you might want to leave free of damping mat in case of modding radiator there. (again if you don't much like the idea of cutting holes yourselves there are ready tops for dual and triple rads)

I also made hole to motherboard tray for being able to change CPU heatsinks back plate without removing motherboard. Although I made also notch for CPU power cable and hole for motherboard's cable for routing them behind motherboard tray those ended up without use because there wasn't anymore much space there after damping side panel and they're easy to route without hindering airflow. Here's pic showing them. (and work quality chief inspector)


That handle on top is my addition to last two cases. With full load of components (rising weight lot) and side panels installed these big cases are very hard to move so that you have secure grip from it because of big depth you can't wrap other hand around case.
Not the best fit into angular case (fit much better to rounded front top decoration of CM Stacker) but big utilitarian benefits overrides such small esthetic misfits for me.
 
F.E.A.R. said:
What he said....the attention to detail is impressive.

Edit: just saw that you ordered. nvm
Click to expand...

My 1200 will be in today.

I cannot justify spending more than $200 on a case. I would rather drop that extra $$$ into my retirement account... or a new rifle. :D
 
Lol, those of you claiming the 1200 sounds like a car engine are either lying or hyper-sensitive to sound. This thing is on low, keeping everything as cool as my screaming Antec 900 and I can barely hear it.
 
Thanks for those pics ET. I will remove those little white slot things in the middle fan cage as you've recommended.

As for the dampening material, does it add any heat to the system? Is it expensive to buy that sort of stuff?

I will have to move the PC after I'm done installing everything and testing it out. Like you said, it will be very heavy after everything is put in. Can I install wheels on the A71?
 
Because components needing cooling aren't in direct contact with case and rely to convective cooling using air as heat transfer medium "insulation" shouldn't even be able to make that much difference in properly designed case for as long as airflow stays same.
Heat traps like top of inverted ATX case without exhaust on top/immediately below top in back would surely get lot hotter because from that kind place heat can't escape through convection of air leaving conduction through case as only possibility. Also PSU on top with down facing fan (and without exhaust in top of the case) causes similar heat trap situation.
But with that upper exhaust on back that heat trap doesn't exist and with slight negative pressure (more exhaust than intake) there would be small airflow on upper part of case drawing air in through gaps around faces of 5.25" devices (never fully tight fit) removing warmer air from whole top end of case.
And removing restrictive inside mesh of "CPU exhaust" fan is easy way to slightly increase rate of heat exhaust where it matters.

Ready combination mats meant for computers aren't that cheap (unlike useless Akasa Paxmate) but for basic mass damping you might find bitumen mat cheaply and in SPCR forum they've also used dense vinyl mats. Precise material doesn't really matter, for as long as material is dense adding mass it lowers panel's resonant frequency and decreases amount of vibration because it takes more energy to get bigger mass to vibrate. Also rigidity of panel rises (also lowering amplitude of vibration) and any kind lining absorpts some airborne sound compared to plain metal sheet.
There are also sound absorption foams/mats meant for general use so adding such on top of mass damping layer would be possible.
Of course amount of work just increases when you have to cut pieces for same areas multiple times and possibly apply glue separately for attaching both of them.

Lian Li has wheels of V-serie available as separate accessory and as there's quite many screw hole in bottom at least those might fit directly.
And attaching any standard wheels would be just question of drilling holes.
I myself made three new holes for moving HDD cage 7.5mm towards motherboard side. (which gave enough space for easy use of HDD cables with straight connectors)
 
You're talking about the grill at the back case fan? The one that's directly next to the CPU Cooler? You're saying it's useless?
 
christpunchersg said:
You're talking about the grill at the back case fan? The one that's directly next to the CPU Cooler? You're saying it's useless?
Click to expand...
Someone sticking fingers into fan blades from inside of the case?
Obstructions directly "in face of the fan" are especially harmfull because they cause turbulence both creating more airflow noise and lowering airflow through increased impedance. And as that's primary exhaust position no sense to hinder its effectiveness.
 
Well as on owner of a HAF, I must say, I am very happy with the case.
For those who state the HAF is not a "GOOD LOOKING" case well its
not for you. I personally think its a good looking case but more importantly
well built, very thoughtfully layed out, and for the price, well its well priced.

The airflow is great,and nearly silent.

If you can afford the ATS 840 go right ahead, but know that you are buying the exact same design with the exception of the side window fan.

below please find pics of my HAF for your refference.

P1010058.jpg


P1010013.jpg


P1010253.jpg
 
ya, the HAF is very hit or miss with people, I think it's a very nice looking case (is there prettier? yes lol)

but for the size, performance, quality and price you can't go wrong. And I haven't had any noise porblems with my HAF. And ever since I installed a fan controller my case has been dead silent lol.
 
The HAF would be 100% nicer if they would just follow Antec's lead and paint the inside black!
 
If the inside color is a big selling point a can of krylon ultradry flex paint is $10.
 
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