Fry's and Video cards

[PolarbearBigEd]

Just a note, be wary of ATi fan boyz at the Arlington, TX store who believe that nVidia is a crappy company who makes video cards. I love ATi and nVidia equally however, I recently got a job there and asked a fellow employee why he didn't like nVidia. Simply put, he said that they suck in games . He emulated a slow moving robot saying that "this is how nVidia cards run in computers." If you have a hardware related question, don't ask anyone there but me A true PC hardware enthusiast and a fellow [H]'er. Just be careful. I hate it when people give bad advice about hardware to people without knowledge.


...end rant

-P

 

[GFreeman9]

Just a note, be wary of ATi fan boyz at the Arlington, TX store who believe that nVidia is a crappy company who makes video cards. I recently got a job there and asked a fellow employee why he didn't like nVidia. Simply put, he said that they suck in games . He emulated a slow moving robot saying that "this is how nVidia cards run in computers." If you have a hardware related question, don't ask anyone there but me A true PC hardware enthusiast and a fellow [H]'er. Just be careful. I hate it when people give bad advice about hardware to people without knowledge.


...end rant

-P

I also hate when people are biased and choose sides with competing companies they don't even work for.

 

[PolarbearBigEd]

I like nVidia and ATi both. But I didn't mention that, my bad. edited.

 

[GFreeman9]

I like nVidia and ATi both. But I didn't mention that, my bad. edited.

Oh in my post I didn't mean you I meant your associates for the record.

 

[5150Joker]

I also hate when people are biased and choose sides with competing companies they don't even work for.

Yeah no kidding, lots of people like that around too.

 

[PolarbearBigEd]

Oh in my post I didn't mean you I meant your associates for the record.

Ahhh ok. I read that wrong. We have a Battlefield 2 set up near the counter running 2 6800gt's in SLi on the Asus Sli board. Sometimes the game will "chug" from gameplay from high resolutions and turned up textures, but because of that, they all think nvidia based graphics cards .... "suck." WTF? *shakes head* I'd like to tell them all to STFU and go do some research, but I just started working there...

 

[Dan_D]

Ahhh ok. I read that wrong. We have a Battlefield 2 set up near the counter running 2 6800gt's in SLi on the Asus Sli board. Sometimes the game will "chug" from gameplay from high resolutions and turned up textures, but because of that, they all think nvidia based graphics cards .... "suck." WTF? *shakes head* I'd like to tell them all to STFU and go do some research, but I just started working there...

I'd bet it has one gigabyte of ram in it doesn't it? Tell them to STFU.

 

[Unoid]

you sound like you need to take some exogenus testosterone so you WILL tell them to STFU ... in the future lol.

 

[Borgschulze]

If I worked at a crappy store like Best Buy or Futureshop, I would tell people to buy those S3 GammaChrome cards.

 

[PolarbearBigEd]

you sound like you need to take some exogenus testosterone so you WILL tell them to STFU ... in the future lol.

LOL *Runs to GNC*

 

[incomudro]

^^^^ Here here

 

[SiliconValley]

I'd bet it has one gigabyte of ram in it doesn't it? Tell them to STFU.

So does 1 gig vs. 2 gigs of RAM really help stop the chugging and jitters? I have a 7800GT and the framerate is pretty high (50+ mostly) but it still feels choppy.

 

[QuimZ]

I feel you Polarbear, but sadly you won't see this change, becuase there are alot of very dense people in the world who just talk out of their asses. In most cases you won't be able to change their opinions, so I wouldn't waste my time trying. It's people that form their opinion by word of mouth, or basing it on the past, instead of trying it for themselves and doing some research. This is the IT world, shit changes drastically, fast. I would have just told the dude to stfu and get an education on the shit he's selling.

Same thing goes around with ATI and Nvidia, I wish the !!!!!!s on both sides could just shut their mouths. Both companies are great, I've owned many cards from both sides of the field, more from Nvidia, but they both make great cards. I just want to tell these punk ass kids that go "OMG ATI is WNED, it's over" to get a life. Yes ATI got trumped BIG this round, but they aren't going anywhere, they are in it for the long run whether they like it or not. Who was reigning before the 6 series? Better yet, how many people here have owned a 9800 of any flavor? This little battle will go on and on between the two, but someone who thinks ATI can't come back and kick Nvidia in the nuts sometime down the road hasn't been in loop very long. This is coming from a guy who's been running a 6 series card for the last year.

 

[nunyabiz]

Just a note, be wary of ATi fan boyz at the Arlington, TX store who believe that nVidia is a crappy company who makes video cards. I love ATi and nVidia equally however, I recently got a job there and asked a fellow employee why he didn't like nVidia. Simply put, he said that they suck in games . He emulated a slow moving robot saying that "this is how nVidia cards run in computers." If you have a hardware related question, don't ask anyone there but me A true PC hardware enthusiast and a fellow [H]'er. Just be careful. I hate it when people give bad advice about hardware to people without knowledge.


...end rant

-P

This is the store I have been talking about. Heard them tell a guy today that he didnt want socket 754, he wants 939 because 754 isnt 64 bit I am just surprised when I finally heard them say AMD was better than Intel. Usually they tell everyone, " just look at the MHz, that tells you which one is faster and AMD isnt even close"

 

[PolarbearBigEd]

This is the store I have been talking about. Heard them tell a guy today that he didnt want socket 754, he wants 939 because 754 isnt 64 bit I am just surprised when I finally heard them say AMD was better than Intel. Usually they tell everyone, " just look at the MHz, that tells you which one is faster and AMD isnt even close"

I worked today, and I think I know the guy you are talking about. Small little dude with black hair probably said that. To make things worse, he doesn't even know what "RAM" stands for, and he get's commission...

 

[Dan_D]

So does 1 gig vs. 2 gigs of RAM really help stop the chugging and jitters? I have a 7800GT and the framerate is pretty high (50+ mostly) but it still feels choppy.

No, it will likely always feel somewhat choppy, it does on my machine. Probably because I use an LCD and I am not running with V-Sync on, mainly because my framerate hits the toilet in that game with V-Sync enabled.

Anyway, adding 2GB of ram does help. The really bad stutters that really affect gameplay will dissappear. However, the game has never felt as smooth as other games on my rig, no matter what I do. I wish the game had an FPS cap function. That would likely solve the problem.

 

[Axsuul]

I worked at Fry's over the summer, and I hate it when customers were deeply unsatisfied or frustrated with an associate's lack of knowledge in a certain area, such as video cards. Most people who come to work at Fry's aren't that even knowledgable with the computer in the first place. Truthfully, I just wanted to scream back at them at why they didn't do their research in the first place.

 

[Dan_D]

I worked at Fry's over the summer, and I hate it when customers were deeply unsatisfied or frustrated with an associate's lack of knowledge in a certain area, such as video cards. Most people who come to work at Fry's aren't that even knowledgable with the computer in the first place. Truthfully, I just wanted to scream back at them at why they didn't do their research in the first place.

I hear you. I get people that want the cheapest ass video card they can buy, when they get home they find out it's ass and they come back and get pissed.

They are like "A 256MB video card should be plenty fast for these games!!!" I tell them that their 256MB Geforce FX 5200 isn't anywhere near as powerfull as most of the other cards on the shelves, including the ones that have 128MB of ram. Then it errupts into a mess where I try to explain to them for the second time that ram does not a card make.

 

[dR.Jester]

Witnessed one of these biased fools first hand at the Best Buy on 71st St in Tulsa.

Walked by as he was talking to a couple and kept going on about how Intel makes the greatest products and AMD's processors are inferior. Its a shame people like that are working the retail chain. Some friends of mine also ran into the same thing at the CompUSSR store about a block from the BB I'm talking about. They were telling me the same thing as in the first post of this thread. Guy went on about how ATI was better blah blah blah.

I think it would be an excellent idea for stores to enforce a policy towards the employees on having a biased opinion towards products.

I know its the employee's job to help the customer but they shouldn't have an agenda while doing so.

 

[jonathonball]

i heard the same kind of crap like that from a guy at work today, i won't go into particulars because it's the same uninformed crap you hear everywhere else

this is the same guy who told me that "ultrabots" was the first game in the mechwarrior series, told me that coke owns pepsi, told me that the gas company bought the rights to the 80mpg carbuerator, told me that fidel castro died in 1980 and is being kept alive purely in the media, and who told me how he drifts in his mini-van....

ppl like this are 60% ignorant, 30% full of crap, and 10% desperate for attention

and there is a 100% chance that there is going to be AT LEAST ONE everywhere you go

 

[Nuzzles]

told me that coke owns pepsi,

They DON'T?!

 

[.Euphoria]

Both cards are great and both have their pros and cons.

 

[jonathonball]

They DON'T?!

well ppfsha ya... geez i thought everyone knew

 

[Zinn]

pepsi blue, man. all the way.

 

[TheGeekFreek]

Yeah, I like Frys, but 90% of the people that work there have got to be retarded.. but if you work at the Frys in arlington, you possibly know my friend Doug, the software manager..but I will never fully understand the whole war on video cards.. from what ive kept up with for the last few years.. thier whole race is constantly neck and neck, which is how it should be, I honestly i cant say I like one more than the other except i like the red ATI PCB's.. thats it.. Ant not to put down doug or anything, but i should have gotten a job with Frys LOOONG before he did, i had assistant management exp. and I know WAAAAAY more about hardware/software than he does.. he only knows what Ive taught him and what I recommend..

edit: Crystal Pepsi pwned all, till it got illegialized for giving people cancer or something.. and pepsi blue makes you shxt green for a few days like SnoBawlz (Was free at Quakecon this year, and at 7/11 soon)

-Evil Juggalo

 

[Goonigoogoo]

I also hate when people are biased and choose sides with competing companies they don't even work for.

Agreed, although he was probably referring to the FX5xxx series

Both companies have their ups and downs but an unbiased salesman will do much better than a biased one.

 

[R1ckCa1n]

Frys has ZERO clue about customer service, mainly in their computer department. 90 percent of the employees can't even seem to put a clean / pressed shirt on each day for work.

 

[Dan_D]

Yeah, I like Frys, but 90% of the people that work there have got to be retarded.. but if you work at the Frys in arlington, you possibly know my friend Doug, the software manager..but I will never fully understand the whole war on video cards.. from what ive kept up with for the last few years.. thier whole race is constantly neck and neck, which is how it should be, I honestly i cant say I like one more than the other except i like the red ATI PCB's.. thats it.. Ant not to put down doug or anything, but i should have gotten a job with Frys LOOONG before he did, i had assistant management exp. and I know WAAAAAY more about hardware/software than he does.. he only knows what Ive taught him and what I recommend..

edit: Crystal Pepsi pwned all, till it got illegialized for giving people cancer or something.. and pepsi blue makes you shxt green for a few days like SnoBawlz (Was free at Quakecon this year, and at 7/11 soon)

-Evil Juggalo

Crystal Pepsi did rock. I wondered why it just dissappeared one day.

 

[ChronicTrees]

I've had shitty experiences at the one in Plano, Garland and Irving as well. Oh wait, all of them! It's not so much the stores, but the type of people they hire to do sales in the departments. I don't mean to be an ass but I am one, I really hate frys associates.

Crystal Pepsi did rock. I wondered why it just dissappeared one day.

Hell yeah it did! I snagged some off of ebay a few years ago, it's at my parents house.

 

[SamuraiInBlack]

I'm sorry but anyone who's honestly going to base their final decision on what a salesperson says with words alone, is begging for trouble. The salesperson is there to sell. That doesn't mean they're going to give you something good, or at least, what's good for you. They're obligated to churn out good margin numbers, accessory attachment, and close-rates. Anything else is irrelevant. They're going to:

1. Sell you the product you're looking for
2. Try to attach accessories to make up for the weak-ass margin on the main product. Granted some stuff would only make sense that you pick up now rather than wait so you save yourself the extra trip, but that number is very very limited (i.e. extra controller for a new console so a friend can play too, multiplayer online equipment if you KNOW for a fact you're gonna be online with it a lot, etc.)
3. Pawn off some lameass shit that probably has nothing to do with what you're originally buying. Typically this consists of the store credit card when you seem wary about the price. Then any kind of subscription either to a magazine or other services that you really don't need, then any kind of 'rewards club' where a key phrase they'll probably try to throw in is like "It's like we're paying you to shop here!" and let's not forget the extended warranties or company warranties that you can buy.

Walk into a retailer *coughBBcough* and pretend you don't know a thing about whatever your specialty is. I work at a retailer and can tell you that's pretty much how it works. I used to work sales. I was written up because I didn't shove all the things I listed above down anybody's throat. It's why I work the warehouse now. I'd mention it, I will claim guilt for that, but I didn't make it sound like the world was going to end if you didn't get it today. Just today the store had a morning meeting and one of the supervisors was stating specifically "do not give the customer a choice".on the topic of closing the sale.

Treatment like that is insulting to the customer and the salesperson's dignity, at least that's how I feel about it. On some occasions the salesperson may actually know quite a lot, but it's rare that they know more than what crap they've been told to tell you to make a good impression. But in the end, you still do your own research first to separate the fact from fiction. It's why I'm glad the [H] is doing full pre-built system reviews. Granted none of them are ones you'd typically find on a major retailer's shelf like an HP or a Compaq, at least not yet, but it's still a good way to know the good, bad, and the ugly about what you're getting.

 

[Dan_D]

I'm sorry but anyone who's honestly going to base their final decision on what a salesperson says with words alone, is begging for trouble. The salesperson is there to sell. That doesn't mean they're going to give you something good, or at least, what's good for you. They're obligated to churn out good margin numbers, accessory attachment, and close-rates. Anything else is irrelevant. They're going to:

1. Sell you the product you're looking for
2. Try to attach accessories to make up for the weak-ass margin on the main product. Granted some stuff would only make sense that you pick up now rather than wait so you save yourself the extra trip, but that number is very very limited (i.e. extra controller for a new console so a friend can play too, multiplayer online equipment if you KNOW for a fact you're gonna be online with it a lot, etc.)
3. Pawn off some lameass shit that probably has nothing to do with what you're originally buying. Typically this consists of the store credit card when you seem wary about the price. Then any kind of subscription either to a magazine or other services that you really don't need, then any kind of 'rewards club' where a key phrase they'll probably try to throw in is like "It's like we're paying you to shop here!" and let's not forget the extended warranties or company warranties that you can buy.

Walk into a retailer *coughBBcough* and pretend you don't know a thing about whatever your specialty is. I work at a retailer and can tell you that's pretty much how it works. I used to work sales. I was written up because I didn't shove all the things I listed above down anybody's throat. It's why I work the warehouse now. I'd mention it, I will claim guilt for that, but I didn't make it sound like the world was going to end if you didn't get it today. Just today the store had a morning meeting and one of the supervisors was stating specifically "do not give the customer a choice".on the topic of closing the sale.

Treatment like that is insulting to the customer and the salesperson's dignity, at least that's how I feel about it. On some occasions the salesperson may actually know quite a lot, but it's rare that they know more than what crap they've been told to tell you to make a good impression. But in the end, you still do your own research first to separate the fact from fiction. It's why I'm glad the [H] is doing full pre-built system reviews. Granted none of them are ones you'd typically find on a major retailer's shelf like an HP or a Compaq, at least not yet, but it's still a good way to know the good, bad, and the ugly about what you're getting.

Personally, I don't do that. I don't give a rats ass what management has to say about it either. I give them the products that they need within their price point. Last night is a good case in point, I sold a guy a video card. He was willing to buy the 6800GT, but after finding out he had a Pentium III 1.4 (Tualatin) I sold him the 6600GT instead. A 6800GT would have been bottelnecked so badly it wouldn't have been worth the $400 we were charging for it.

He understood and grabbed the 6600GT to hold him until he replaced the machine. Granted I am a technician, and I only sell parts when I have to. The tech area is responsible for parts where I work.

 

[ricetek]

Yeah, I like Frys, but 90% of the people that work there have got to be retarded.. but if you work at the Frys in arlington, you possibly know my friend Doug, the software manager..but I will never fully understand the whole war on video cards.. from what ive kept up with for the last few years.. thier whole race is constantly neck and neck, which is how it should be, I honestly i cant say I like one more than the other except i like the red ATI PCB's.. thats it.. Ant not to put down doug or anything, but i should have gotten a job with Frys LOOONG before he did, i had assistant management exp. and I know WAAAAAY more about hardware/software than he does.. he only knows what Ive taught him and what I recommend..

edit: Crystal Pepsi pwned all, till it got illegialized for giving people cancer or something.. and pepsi blue makes you shxt green for a few days like SnoBawlz (Was free at Quakecon this year, and at 7/11 soon)

-Evil Juggalo

truee FRYS sucks! i hear some of them actually even make decent money

 

[lozaning]

kinda off topic, but does anone know where i canget some pepsi blue?

Unfortunately, very off-topic. You are welcome to ask in General Mayhem though. This constitutes your friendly OT warning, next off-topic post gets the thread closed. - DL

 

[ZV3]

That and the Irving one. All the associates are clueless, except for one guy that works the return desk in Arlington and a guy that works the Irving return. I study what I am going to buy and completely ignore associates suggestions. Me and an Associate in Arlington even talk about how I Overclock all the stuff I buy from them!!

 

[Astaroth125]

I'm sorry but anyone who's honestly going to base their final decision on what a salesperson says with words alone, is begging for trouble. The salesperson is there to sell. That doesn't mean they're going to give you something good, or at least, what's good for you. They're obligated to churn out good margin numbers, accessory attachment, and close-rates. Anything else is irrelevant. They're going to:

1. Sell you the product you're looking for
2. Try to attach accessories to make up for the weak-ass margin on the main product. Granted some stuff would only make sense that you pick up now rather than wait so you save yourself the extra trip, but that number is very very limited (i.e. extra controller for a new console so a friend can play too, multiplayer online equipment if you KNOW for a fact you're gonna be online with it a lot, etc.)
3. Pawn off some lameass shit that probably has nothing to do with what you're originally buying. Typically this consists of the store credit card when you seem wary about the price. Then any kind of subscription either to a magazine or other services that you really don't need, then any kind of 'rewards club' where a key phrase they'll probably try to throw in is like "It's like we're paying you to shop here!" and let's not forget the extended warranties or company warranties that you can buy.

Walk into a retailer *coughBBcough* and pretend you don't know a thing about whatever your specialty is. I work at a retailer and can tell you that's pretty much how it works. I used to work sales. I was written up because I didn't shove all the things I listed above down anybody's throat. It's why I work the warehouse now. I'd mention it, I will claim guilt for that, but I didn't make it sound like the world was going to end if you didn't get it today. Just today the store had a morning meeting and one of the supervisors was stating specifically "do not give the customer a choice".on the topic of closing the sale.

Treatment like that is insulting to the customer and the salesperson's dignity, at least that's how I feel about it. On some occasions the salesperson may actually know quite a lot, but it's rare that they know more than what crap they've been told to tell you to make a good impression. But in the end, you still do your own research first to separate the fact from fiction. It's why I'm glad the [H] is doing full pre-built system reviews. Granted none of them are ones you'd typically find on a major retailer's shelf like an HP or a Compaq, at least not yet, but it's still a good way to know the good, bad, and the ugly about what you're getting.

Seeing as how I'm in sales, I might have some perspective on this. I don't mean to flame you, but I don't think you're a good sales person. Not everyone is. A good salesperson will use all three of your options listed above, when appropriate.

Sell you the product you're looking for

Your complaint is a salesperson selling someone what they want? I don't think I need to touch this one...

Try to attach accessories to make up for the weak-ass margin on the main product. Granted some stuff would only make sense that you pick up now rather than wait so you save yourself the extra trip, but that number is very very limited (i.e. extra controller for a new console so a friend can play too, multiplayer online equipment if you KNOW for a fact you're gonna be online with it a lot, etc.)

Say I sell 10 people 7800GTX's. I ask everyone of them if they need a power adaptor for the PCI-e power connector. Nine say no, and the tenth realizes he actually needs it. Now, because I offered an attachment I saved someone a trip back, and I can tell you, they will be much happier.

How about offering the free printer after MIR when you buy a computer? Lots of people want those too.

It takes me thirty seconds to run down a list of attachments and make sure you get you need. And guess what? If you forgot to get something, you'll be glad I did. I explain this to my customers, that I'm not trying to get them to buy everything in the store, I just want to present their options to them while they are in the store and don't have to come back later because they forgot something or saw a good deal I didn't mention. My customers appreciate this, and they come back to see me because of this.

Pawn off some lameass shit that probably has nothing to do with what you're originally buying. Typically this consists of the store credit card when you seem wary about the price. Then any kind of subscription either to a magazine or other services that you really don't need, then any kind of 'rewards club' where a key phrase they'll probably try to throw in is like "It's like we're paying you to shop here!" and let's not forget the extended warranties or company warranties that you can buy.

We have a credit card that gives you a $100 MIR when you buy a computer/motherboard and processor combo. There is no obligation, and no annual charge. You can cancel the card as soon as you get it. How is this a bad deal?

Or how about a warranty that covers accidental damage and screen damage to cameras? Don't tell me you've never dropped your camera.

Or even on a computer, maybe you can fix it yourself, but do you get parts for free? With an extended warranty you do.

I'm not saying all these are always applicable, but why not let the customer decide if he wants attachments and/or warranties instead of the sales person deciding for them?

I answer any question as honestly and as unbiased as I can. I never lie or mislead customers, and often upsell/downsell a customer depending on thier needs. I never sell anything to make myself more money, or to add attachments. I sell a solution that will fit my customers needs.

You know what? My customers keep coming back, they bring their friend's back, they bring their mother's back. I get tons of word-of-mouth business. And my attachment and service plan percentages are good, even though I don't push customers if really don't want them.

As a sales person, my job is to inform the customer as much as I can. This includes informing them about extended warranties, great deals, or attachments they may have forgotten about or not realized they need. It is the customer's job to decide if they need/want any of the above products. It is not my job to not mention something because I wouldn't buy it. I would never buy a 6600GT, but I recommend them all day long. I would never buy a prebuilt computer, but I sell them all day long.

I'll stop now to avoid further ranting, but I hope you understand my point.

Astaroth

 

[kuyaglen]

don't ask anyone there but me

Do they work on commision @ Fry's?

 

[Obi_Kwiet]

Witnessed one of these biased fools first hand at the Best Buy on 71st St in Tulsa.

Walked by as he was talking to a couple and kept going on about how Intel makes the greatest products and AMD's processors are inferior. Its a shame people like that are working the retail chain. Some friends of mine also ran into the same thing at the CompUSSR store about a block from the BB I'm talking about. They were telling me the same thing as in the first post of this thread. Guy went on about how ATI was better blah blah blah.

I think it would be an excellent idea for stores to enforce a policy towards the employees on having a biased opinion towards products.

I know its the employee's job to help the customer but they shouldn't have an agenda while doing so.

I live in Tulsa. Looks like it's time for a bit of AMD fan boy trolling.

 

[Nauseous]

every time i walk into a store like best buy or frys, and some employee ask me if i need any "help" I tell them no. Usually thats the end of that, but this one stupid idiot at frys was like trying to help me after i told him i didnt need it. well i finally got fed up with this, and told the mother fucker how i really felt, and that he was a dumbass and that i didnt need any help. everyone started looking at me and shit because i raised my voice, it was funny the manager came over there and stuff asking me what the problem was, so i explained it he said he was sorry and that it wouldnt ever happen again. i havent been back to that frys since.

 

[Astaroth125]

every time i walk into a store like best buy or frys, and some employee ask me if i need any "help" I tell them no. Usually thats the end of that, but this one stupid idiot at frys was like trying to help me after i told him i didnt need it. well i finally got fed up with this, and told the mother fucker how i really felt, and that he was a dumbass and that i didnt need any help. everyone started looking at me and shit because i raised my voice, it was funny the manager came over there and stuff asking me what the problem was, so i explained it he said he was sorry and that it wouldnt ever happen again. i havent been back to that frys since.

Not that he should have followed you around, but, I personally love it when people who obviously know everything come in and put me in my place.

People seem to work under the assumption anyone in a retail store is an idiot. Remember, there is always a bigger fish, always someone who knows more than you, and he may have been standing in front of you.

For example, I recommended a DFI LanParty Ultra-D to a customer today because he wanted stability on an nf4 platform. He asked me if I had any experience with DFI, and I told him I've had three DFI boards and not one has died or had problems, which is impressive because I've killed a few boards in my day from overunning them. Now, I knew what I was doing would more than likely drastically reduce their lifespan. I knew they weren't the highest quality boards, but I deemed them replaceable. Not a big deal, overclocking can have it's costs, especially on cheap hardware you don't care about.

Well, this guy looks at me and says, 'Yeah, it's ok, that's how everybody learns, after you build a few you won't kill them anymore.'

Needless to say, I got a good laugh out of this know-it-all.

Astaroth

 

[AaronP]

In the past 3 months I've worked there, I've found the intellect and general computer knowledge of nearly 90% of my "comrades" to be major let down.

I gave a friendly warning earlier (in #33) in the thread about staying on topic. It has not been heeded. Sorry to the OP, but this thread is too far off track. - DL