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Front Projection

J

Jerry

Limp Gawd
Joined
Apr 4, 2000
Messages
500
I'm looking for someone with experience with front projection or who owns a front projector and would be willing to try some stuff out for me. I'm pretty new to this area, I've been over at AVSForum but they don't see to take too kindly to newbies...

So here's my dilemma. I have quite a bit of ambient light in my apartment with one huge 4' x 6' window with those pull down shades and then sliding glass doors that lead out to my patio that have the kind of blinds that drop down from the top edge of the door to the floor. I was wondering about possibly mounting my projection screen above the top edge of the window and actually utilizing the ambient light as a sort of backlight? I've done a bit of searching and no one's mentioned trying this or anything, but I figure it's somewhat like backlights on LCDs and I should see a boost in image brightness? This would just be for normal "TV" watching, whereas I'd rotate the projector about 90 degrees and shine it on another wall 18 feet away to get a 120 inch widescreen image for movies at night =)

My apartment is an efficiency that has the one room at 12x19 feet:

http://www.inwoodonthepark.com/large_a5.html

Projector would be mounted on the kitchen counter about 13 feet back from the window. I'd get a screen that would cover the whole window, but the projector would be 16:9 and only utilize the upper part of the screen - the extra cloth would just serve as drop so when the projector is off and the screen is down, it doesn't look out of place but instead hides the whole window...

Thoughts? Comments? Any feedback would be appreciated, thanks!
 
i dont think that would work because the sun would just shine all around the edge of the screen..sort of obscuring it like an ecclipse. the screen is opaque so why would the light "help" it? if you have to do this just get blinds id say.
 
One of the issues with a front projector is they need a screen designed to be a screen. Stewart Grey Hawk, for example. If you don’t use the right screen you get weird colors not to mention poor black levels. If you use a screen bigger then the picture your trying to project then you get a bad halo effect on the rest of the screen.

I can’t think of any circumstances where any sort of light in your room will help you at all. You need all but total darkness to get the full benefit of a Front Projector.

Light bulb expense has to be taken into consideration as well, they can cost hundreds and they don’t last “years” with normal use.

As much fun as a Front Projector can be I’d have to point you towards a good rear projector as an alternative.

Just some thoughts
 
Mmm.... yeah I was worried about the light bleeding from the edges... the problem with getting real drapes is the fact that I have 2 cats that would love to get their claws on anything cloth hanging down.... they already attack the blinds for my windows as it is, so =P

I dunno, I've read of reports from people going to CEDIA 2004 and seeing FP's demo'd in the main exhibit hall where there's probaly 20x more ambient light than I'd have in my room with the blinds closed during the day and the image still being very watchable... this would be either the new Panasonic AE700 or the Sony HS51, I forget... Also Sony's new black screen technology which really does allow you to use an FP in a fully brightened room... from the reports people posted of their experience at the exhibit, FP has definitely come a long way - total black isn't required anymore with these newer projectors an screens...

Mmm alternatively what about backing the projector screen with black fabric to absorb incoming sunlight from the window, would that help any? I could also mask off the edges of the window with some black fabric to reduce leakage... I dunno, I guess I want some confirmation that this would actually work like I'm thinking before I go out and do all this... thanks...

As far an RPTV again, it's the cats...
 
IdiotInCharge said:
Cats == silencers for the next hunting trip.
Click to expand...

That was rude, crude and totally socially unacceptable. Kinda like me, I loved it. ;)

I have three Persians that run this house, I swear they use the computer when I’m not around :D
 
Jerry said:
Mmm.... yeah I was worried about the light bleeding from the edges... the problem with getting real drapes is the fact that I have 2 cats that would love to get their claws on anything cloth hanging down.... they already attack the blinds for my windows as it is, so =P

I dunno, I've read of reports from people going to CEDIA 2004 and seeing FP's demo'd in the main exhibit hall where there's probaly 20x more ambient light than I'd have in my room with the blinds closed during the day and the image still being very watchable... this would be either the new Panasonic AE700 or the Sony HS51, I forget... Also Sony's new black screen technology which really does allow you to use an FP in a fully brightened room... from the reports people posted of their experience at the exhibit, FP has definitely come a long way - total black isn't required anymore with these newer projectors an screens...

Mmm alternatively what about backing the projector screen with black fabric to absorb incoming sunlight from the window, would that help any? I could also mask off the edges of the window with some black fabric to reduce leakage... I dunno, I guess I want some confirmation that this would actually work like I'm thinking before I go out and do all this... thanks...

As far an RPTV again, it's the cats...
Click to expand...

A few additional thoughts. At CEDIA and CES the manufactures all use “high gain” screens, which are totally unacceptable in your home environment. A home screen has a “gain factor” of maybe 1.2 to 1.9 these days, the idea being if you throw 1000 lumens at the screen you get maybe 450 to 500 back. More then that and it would be almost too bright to watch. Think of doubling the brightness of your monitor and you will get the idea.

Another problem is if you project a 16 X 9 picture on a square screen the unused screen reflects light back at your eyes, very distracting. A lot of the new screens include the option of side curtains for 4X3 use with a 16X9 projector, as well as top and bottom curtains if you have a 4X3 screen.

Blackout window shades are one answer, and affordable for ambient room light. I personally like FP very much but it can be a pain to work with. Also I’m old school, I love the CRT 3 Tube sets, but those are few and far between.

Luck
 
Mmm I didn't get the hunting reference as I am a naive city boy =P

Yeah... still considering my options, haven't settled on one technology over the other, everything seems to have the "just around the corner" phenomenon which makes me wanna play the waiting game some more... Thanks for the suggestions though =)
 
you can have some ambient light in the room but try not to have any direct light hitting the screen.
I've been using Front projectors for 10 years now, started with a few LCD's and now have a decent CRT.
I am projecting on a white wall (need to get a screen eventually) and it provides a decent picture.
screen01.jpg
 
Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon? =)

I'm waiting on comparison tests between the Sony HS51 and the Panasonic AE700 which were both released recently...I just can't seem to find optimal placement for a traditional TV that would be both aesthetically pleasing and functional... maybe I need to post a mod my room thread...
 
That really is nice for a white wall. CRT units do a much better job then LCD or DLP if your using a wall. Looks very good :D
 
I've got a DLP and I picked up an 80" screen for $80 on ebay... Worth every penny!
 
BillR said:
That really is nice for a white wall. CRT units do a much better job then LCD or DLP if your using a wall. Looks very good :D
Click to expand...

That image was projected with my worn out ECP-3101 too.
Here is a shot of my new projector, ECP-4500,
06.jpg
 
eeewww

you are projecting 4:3????


:eek:

Jerry

if you can instead of buying drapes. Buy blackout cloth. Work better and cheaper. So if and when the cats use it to sharpen their claws. It won't cost as much to replace ;)
 
I'm looking at projectors now. Do LCD projectors blur and ghost in games like LCDs?
 
Hey, that's a great question to ask. Someone provide feedback on this? Any image ghosting or motion blurring?

Where am I supposed to mount the blackout cloth? Hmm, can I get a rollable screen with a black backing to aborb all the light? I think that'd work really well... just don't know if it's possible...

I'm getting some nice claw mitts from www.softpaws.com so hopefully no more scratches...
 
figgie said:
eeewww

you are projecting 4:3????


:eek:

Jerry

if you can instead of buying drapes. Buy blackout cloth. Work better and cheaper. So if and when the cats use it to sharpen their claws. It won't cost as much to replace ;)
Click to expand...

Ya, someone rented the wrong version of MIB2. I personally can't stand movies in 4x3 if they were originally in widescreen format.
 
Evoken said:
I'm looking at projectors now. Do LCD projectors blur and ghost in games like LCDs?
Click to expand...

I haven't noticed any ghosting with the 2 LCD's I used to own, an Eiki and Sharp.
It may be more apparent with signals that are at higher frequencies, like 31Khz vs 15khz.
 
Very nice work WS6, and i'm going to be in a similar boat as yourself Jerry. I'm still in the debating stage as to what setup to go with. I hear good DIY kits get you more IQ for your money but i'm still digesting the tons of info out there.

Might i ask what is a CRT based design? I might be interested if its IQ is better than an LCD based design. Sorry to threadjack but i'm suffering from information overload (voraciously researching the topic) and my thread on page 2 went unanswered :(
 
SJetski71 said:
Very nice work WS6, and i'm going to be in a similar boat as yourself Jerry. I'm still in the debating stage as to what setup to go with. I hear good DIY kits get you more IQ for your money but i'm still digesting the tons of info out there.

Might i ask what is a CRT based design? I might be interested if its IQ is better than an LCD based design. Sorry to threadjack but i'm suffering from information overload (voraciously researching the topic) and my thread on page 2 went unanswered :(
Click to expand...


thanks,
This is a CRT based Projector,
ecp-4500.jpg
 
On LCD and DLP FP they (the industry) don’t refer to it as blurring and ghosting. Their name for that is “Digital Aberrations and Artifacting”. If your watching fast motion as in sports or close up of car racing you will actually see picture break up. It appears as larger squares for brief instances, which is a bigger version of blurring.

Like computer monitors, the more you pay the less of that you get. Also, if you’re a real movie buff CRT is the only way to go even though they are becoming few and far between. Nothing I’ve seen at any price beats a CRT for making a movie look like a movie.
 
Hmm, I thought that was due to mpeg decoding? For a game that's being rendered in real time, I wouldn't expect to see those same kinds of artifacts... right?
 
Jerry said:
Hmm, I thought that was due to mpeg decoding? For a game that's being rendered in real time, I wouldn't expect to see those same kinds of artifacts... right?
Click to expand...

Not as bad but still pretty noticeable actaually. What blew me away was how well the cheap (LCD) Yamaha handled it as opposed to the 40k (DLP) Runco. I tried to buy the CRT Runco the DLP replaced, but it got moved to a different room...OH well, many next time ;)
 
Eesh, I don't think I'll ever have enough to afford a Runco in my lifetime, so it's good to hear lower priced alternatives providing that same level of performance =P

I'm currently looking at Elite screen's electric HOME series which has gotten pretty good reviews. The screens seem to be a great value and are targeted for beginner HT setups. They offer a 4:3 screen that is 55x72 (actual screen size) and a 16:9 screen that is 42x72 (actual screen size). The viewable screen size on these is 52x70 and 39x70, respectively.

I am planning on projecting a 16:9 39x70 image that is centered in my window recess. So my question to you all is whether I should get the 4:3 screen and mask off the bottom 13 inches myself or ask for a 16:9 with extra drop on the bottom? I don't know how much customization I can ask for. I also don't know how hard it is/how much it will cost to mask it myself.

Also, I like the Elite screens because of the position memory feature. Basically, you can have it remember where you want it to stop at, so you don't have to adjust the screen multiple times to try and get it to line up with the projector. Are there any other screens that offer this? I also like the small case dimensions - da-lite's cases protrude way too much for my tastes horizontally.

http://www.vmaxscreens.com/store/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=616

I'll probably end up painting those caps white to match :p
 
Actually, now that I think about it, since I'm only going to be using the projector a couple times a week, for watching movies/sports events, etc, I don't feel the added headaches of hiding yet another set of cables as well as the extra cost of electric screens vs manuals is really worth it. The Draper Silhouette/M series really really catches my eye. Any thoughts on this company? I wish they offered a larger selection of screen sizes for this model, so I'll have to choose between just a little too small (1 inches on both sides) and too big (7.5 inches on both sides). I guess I'll talk to them and see if I can get a custom set up that's somewhere in between those two extremes...
 
I'm waiting on comparisons between Panasonic AE700 and Sony HS51 before I decide. The Panasonic L500U is also an option.
 
Jerry said:
I'm waiting on comparisons between Panasonic AE700 and Sony HS51 before I decide. The Panasonic L500U is also an option.
Click to expand...
I'm beginning to contemplate a "pre-made" projector as opposed to a DIY kit. I've re-decided my budget and it's now <$1500ish but am willing to spend a lil more for higher quality (i want new but i'll cross check ebay pricing). Researching this stuff has been a lot of fun for me, but i'm no closer to my objective :)

Def post some pics when your project is finished.
 
The Panasonic L500U dropped from 1999 down to 1499 once its sucessor, the AE700, was announced. The L500U is a very excellent projector, with very much improved picture quality due to image smoothing technology that reduces the screen door effect. However, I've read that some people have had vertical banding issues with it. I don't know how noticeable/frequent this is, but it did give me pause, especially once I found out that the AE700 was just a month away. So, that's definitely an option. The Sanyo Z2 is also another one in the same price range I think and is a direct competitor to the L500U, but might be even cheaper, I haven't checked.
 
Thx for the heads up, will def research those and put them on my short list.
 
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