From 2500+ to 2,8 northwood 512 kb cache?

O

oqvist

[H]F Junkie
Joined
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A good move? My 2500+ have never been as good as I hoped for. Am not 100 % stable at 11,5x200 at 2V even. I am quite frustrated with it really and now my onboard nic have died.

So what is a good deal to replace it with?

I can get a 2,8 northwood 512 kb cache for perhaps 130$ is that a good deal? Will overclock it of course. Do I have to mod it to overclock it?

Also what mainboard should I go for? Have never owned a P 4 system in my life.
 
I don't know, been AMD for too many years to have touch P4's

But AFAIK 2.8 gets you to 3.6GHz

Thats reasonable i guess, But cant answer about mobo's,, gues Epox makes good boards, so does Abit / MSI etc.

read sigs for most used mainboards
 
Just recently built system in my sig, and the ABit IC7-g ROCKS! This was the first intel system i've built since back in the P-200MMX days. So in my opinion i'd go with a board by abit, you should look at [H]ardOCP's review of it.
 
yeah, 2.8c is fun. Grab a abit board, won't undervolt you like the asus will.
 
From my assumption your gonna be on somewhat of a budget? I suggest Abit AI7 I865pe board. Tons of features, under 100 dollars, supports sp-94 hsf. I use it and I am @ 286FSB 100% stable. The chip depends on the stepping and your luck. It may take some voltage but 3.5 - 3.6 is easily achievable. Most are scared to go above 1.7V me I run 1.8V on my 2.4c m0 stepping. Also get some descent ram, even if you have to run dividers on the memory you'll want ram that can do 220+ FSB I run 1:1 @ 286FSB with my memory. Geil Platinum 4000.
 
Well it look like I will keep my system a bit longer. The bid went up to 170$.

Since my BARTON is at 2,3 I won´t get much bang for so much buck really...
 
Why don't you graba mobile barton?

Mine's in my sig, and I haven't pushed it hard enough to find the ceiling yet.
 
Originally posted by NewBlackDak
Why don't you graba mobile barton?

Mine's in my sig, and I haven't pushed it hard enough to find the ceiling yet.
Click to expand...

That's nearly 2.8 ghz. Most Bartons won't get ANYWHERE near that high on air cooling.
 
I'd say move to a mobile barton. You can hit 2.5GHz... which is faster than a 3.0C easily... that way, you don't need to get a new mobo.
 
Originally posted by MemoryInAGarden
That's nearly 2.8 ghz. Most Bartons won't get ANYWHERE near that high on air cooling.
Click to expand...
The proc does 2.2 at stock vcore though, and [email protected] with a Thermalright SLK-800(A) and 3K RPM 80mm fan. They're fine clockers if you wanna push it to the edge.
 
Originally posted by Baker_God
yeah, 2.8c is fun. Grab a abit board, won't undervolt you like the asus will.
Click to expand...

Undervolt? Every Asus board I have seen always overvolts, mine alone overvolts nearly .08v.
 
really? I've seen alot of people complaing about there boards not giving them enough juice. Guess your board's on the other end of the spectrum, still not a good defect though.
 
My 2500+ was bought before they where locked. It was a AQXEA core not that it helped much though.

do mobile 2500+ generally really overclock higher?
 
The mobile chips beat the pants off the normal parts in heat and in OC. I have a "crappy" 2400+M which "only" does 2.4GHz.
33% OC for $70.

I don't know the precise mechanics of the curves, but the 2500+M's tend to have better step codes. Guys have seen 2.7-2.8 on air.

It's really the luck of the draw with the 2.8C or the 2500+M. The 2500+M is cheaper, and if you get a good chip, it'll perform the same as a good 2.8C.

Your call.
 
How come do mobile 2500+ run cooler? Are they as fast as the regular 2500+ at the same clock speed.

This is all news to me I have to look into it.

Is it the Thorton chips with less L 2 cache???
 
Okay mobile BARTONS seem to be priced twice as much as their BARTON counterparts...
 
I have a mobile 2400+, see sig, and it does 2.4GHz on air. It will go higher, but I'm really too lazy to turn off my comp and go through bios, then check prime, and sit around checking temps..
:D
Anyway, it does 2.4GHz on a Zalman AlCu and it idles (if my room is around 70F) at 36C. If my room gets up to 76+ my proc idles 38-40C. Never really hot, however.
The mobile 2400+ is also concidered Barton rather then TBred like it's desktop cousin. So it has double the L2 Cache, at 512.
It's a great buy, I bought mine a few weeks ago, and I don't regret spending 78 bucks on it. :D

Edit: it's not worth getting a 2500+ mobile as opposed to the 2400+ mobile. The only difference is 30MHz, from what I hear they OC to about the same speeds anyways, and let's not forget saving about 20 bucks on the 2400 as opposed to the 2500.
Edit2: I'm not an expert, but I'm pretty sure the reason their temps stay so low is because they require less volts on the VCore. These chips are designed to be kept in a laptop, so better cooling is a must.
 
Originally posted by oqvist
Okay mobile BARTONS seem to be priced twice as much as their BARTON counterparts...
Click to expand...

Normal 2500+ Barton = $75
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=19-103-378&depa=0

Mobile 2500+ Barton = $91
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=19-103-401&depa=0

As you can see, the price difference is $16, not $75. Mobiles are, as I understand it, the best of the bartons, hand picked because they run at lower voltages and thereby produce less heat.

It's your most cost effective upgrade option.
 
Originally posted by LeChuck
Normal 2500+ Barton = $75
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=19-103-378&depa=0

Mobile 2500+ Barton = $91
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=19-103-401&depa=0

As you can see, the price difference is $16, not $75. Mobiles are, as I understand it, the best of the bartons, hand picked because they run at lower voltages and thereby produce less heat.

It's your most cost effective upgrade option.
Click to expand...

Okay I have to look around a bit then. I just noticed a mobile 2500+ Thorton core for 700 and a mobile 2500+ barton for 1500...
 
They are only rated for 266 FSB?? Is it hard to achieve high fsb with these?
 
Originally posted by oqvist
They are only rated for 266 FSB?? Is it hard to achieve high fsb with these?
Click to expand...

No. Since the multiplier is unlocked you can just lower the multiplier and up the FSB.
 
Originally posted by oqvist
They are only rated for 266 FSB?? Is it hard to achieve high fsb with these?
Click to expand...

don't be scared about what there rated for, they're that way becasue of the limitations of being in a laptop.
 
Originally posted by thebro
abits undervolt asus overvolts dude

get it right!
;)
Click to expand...

I'd just like to jump in here and clear this up.....cus you've got the voltage stuff on these boards kinda mixed up. I have owned both an Asus P4C800-E DLX and an IC7-MAX3 so please listen.

Asus P4C800-E: it undervolts AND overvolts

The Asus P4C800-E is a killer motherboard but it is plagued by one menacing problem, it's vcore instability. The board tends to be more or less alright if you leave everything at stock, it's not until you start overclocking that the vcore becomes a problem. The problem is with the boards voltage regulators themselves.....it's not anything like a BIOS or CPU issue. What happens is that the board isn't able to handle the cpu voltage and/or clock being raised to any great extent. When you start to get to high, the board will just cave in, and the voltage begins to bottom out when the cpu is under load. This results in serious stability problems for people who are overclocked and depend on having a certain voltage to maintain their stability. As an example: when I had my 2.8C m0 at 250fsb (for 3.5GHz) the chip itself would need 1.6v to be stable.....but I would have to set it to 1.75v in the BIOS for it to STAY that high. When I held the cpu under load for any amount of time the voltage would actually drop from 1.75 all the way down to 1.63v.....and it would bounce around between those two points. As you can see, this is a very large issue, and is worsened byt the fact that the board also idles a little to high. When I had it set to that 1.75v it would actually idle at 1.78v.....and believe it or not, it would actually go from 1.78v down to 1.68v sporatically ON IDLE. The higher you clock and the more you raise the voltage the worse the problems get.....and I wasn't willing to set my votlage to 1.8v and have it overvolt to 1.85v on idle, just to get the cpu stable at 1.65v under load. There is a voltmod available to counter this horrible effect, but most are NOT interested in any sort of thing, and rely more on the board to be stable right out of the box.....which the P4C800-E is not.

Abit IC7-MAX3!: undervolts and overvolts

The IC7 is also plagued by a couple re-occuring things.....which are moreso present on the MAX3 with it's "impressive" 3.2v vdimm setting capability. The problem lies within the boards memory voltage and is quite well known amung overclockers. What happens is that once a person sets their memory voltage anywhere above 2.8v (or 2.9v.....can't remember exactly) it starts to become unstable. This problem is actually more serious then the P4C's vcore issue, as the MAX3 will actually overvolt your ram, potentially damaging it, and leaving your system unstable as hell. The good news is that there is also a solution for this. Abit has actually adopted a voltmod that was invented on xtremesystems back in summer of last year to remedy the vdimm issue. You can now RMA the board to them and have them hardmod the board completely under warantee, and they'll send it back. No worries though 'cus they'll also cross ship a loaner board for/with you, so you're not left stranded. The fact that Abit is willing to help ppl out THIS much is really outstanding, that's service like i haven't seen in quite a long while.

The only vcore fluctuation on the MAX3 is a standard amount that any HT pentium 4 is going to run into.....but it is VERY minimal on the MAX3. You can actually turn off HT to REALLY stablize your cpu voltage on ANY motherboard, even the Asus, but that kind of defeats the purpose of buying a P4 in the first place. ;)

As you can see, both boards have their ups and downs but I see the MAX3 as the overall better board, and stronger overclocker.....it's truely the best s478 enthusiast board out there, just IMO anyways. The P4C800 series and the IC7 series of boards both command the ORB for top scores in 3DMark2001.....which has to say something, I just think that the MAX3's issues aren't AS impacting and a little easier to remedy for the average Joe (being able to have Abit voltmod the board FOR you). Again, the thing about the IC7 being the better enthusiast board is just my own opinion after owning both top-o-the line boards, and seeing the ups and downs in each. Other people are entitled to a preference and opinion of their own, but nobody is really wrong on which board is "better". If someone IS willing to voltmod their motherboard then the P4C's vcore issue can be rectified, and you can also do another voltmod to raise the max vdimm to 3.15v, as opposed to 2.85v by default. You can see how the TRUE hardcore overclockers out there might find the Asus more appealing, but I have always been a fan of the MAX3, and I'll be happy as hell when I get mind sometime late next week. :cool:
 
The mobiles have a default vcore of 1.45. They're just super barton cores that were binned by AMD. They're comlpletely unlocked, and OC better than the desktop counterparts.
 
Originally posted by NewBlackDak
The mobiles have a default vcore of 1.45. They're just super barton cores that were binned by AMD. They're comlpletely unlocked, and OC better than the desktop counterparts.
Click to expand...

I'm glad you brought up the voltage thing, as I don't think anyone had yet. That is what can also make them attractive for someone who wants a rock stable SFF system, can't go wrong with a 2500+ Mobile for your shuttle right about now.....lower voltage means less heat, which means less noise, which equals one hell of a SFF setup.
 
I have one of the earlier mobile xp2600 barton chips. its the AQYHA stepping. Early on, the 2600s were more likely to hit higher OC's, since they start out as a bit better chip than the 2400 and 2500s. But now, just about all the newer steppings seem to be able to hit the high OC's regardless if its a 2400 or 2600.

after a bit of burn in, my xp-m2600 is prime stable at 2.53ghz (211*12) at 1.80v. Air cooling with a aerocool HT-101. boots and runs windows at 2.7ghz, but I am too lazy to find out what voltage will make it stable.

I am currently setting up a system for my GF, and just ordered the same cpu this week. got an IQYHA with the green pcb board on hers. This one is supposed to be a really good stepping, and typically requires less voltage than the AQYHA to reach the same OC, so I think I'm gonna pull a switcharoo and put it in my system :)
 
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