Fresh Windows 10 install questions

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MrCrispy

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May 14, 2007
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I'm reinstalling Windows 10 on my desktop pc and have a few questions -

- is there a reason not to use the builtin Defender as AV? I've tried using the free Avast etc before, the nagware was too much and it didn't catch anything Defender didn't
- I'm not one of the paranoid types who shut off all services. But I do want to disable things like Cortana speech input (no microphone) and similar stuff. What's recommended?
- do visual styles still work? I remember there used to be a patched Uxstyle a long time ago, but I haven't used that in a while.
- do I need anything special if using an ssd. This is why I'm reinstalling btw, just bought an ssd and instead of cloning a fresh start is better. I think Windows by default disables defrag and enables TRIM right?

Any other tips?
 
I've used the built in defender for years without issue. However, I also use Noscript so I don't know if I would recommend that universally.
On install I disable all of the tracking items that I am able. I also disable Cortana and remove it from the start bar. From what I understand you can't truly uninstall Cortana and Onedrive without jumping through hoops, and then it will just get installed during the next major OS update anyway.
Not sure.
Windows recognizes SSDs and automatically optimizes for them.
If you are running Professional I suggest running gpedit and setting Windows to not automatically perform Windows update installations and reboots.
 
I do have Pro. I also use OneDrive so I won't be disabling that, but Cortana I don't need. I think during setup it asks if Cortana should be enabled?
I'm going to find out how to disable some tracking but I hope those tips don't end up disabling too much and breaking things.
 
grim4593 said:
If you are running Professional I suggest running gpedit and setting Windows to not automatically perform Windows update installations and reboots.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately MS doesn't honor that GPO anymore in Pro, only Enterprise/Education. This began with CU. Its basically forced updates and feature updates no matter what, even if you disabled WIndows Update in services.msc
 
DPI said:
Unfortunately MS doesn't honor that GPO anymore in Pro, only Enterprise/Education. This began with CU. Its basically forced updates and feature updates no matter what, even if you disabled WIndows Update in services.msc
Click to expand...
Odd, I have the CU installed and I haven't had any issue. It still notifies me about updates but doesn't automatically install them. However, once I press the button to install the updates it does enforce a timed reboot, but that is acceptable since it is "manual".
 
MrCrispy said:
I'm reinstalling Windows 10 on my desktop pc and have a few questions -

- is there a reason not to use the builtin Defender as AV? I've tried using the free Avast etc before, the nagware was too much and it didn't catch anything Defender didn't
- I'm not one of the paranoid types who shut off all services. But I do want to disable things like Cortana speech input (no microphone) and similar stuff. What's recommended?
- do visual styles still work? I remember there used to be a patched Uxstyle a long time ago, but I haven't used that in a while.
- do I need anything special if using an ssd. This is why I'm reinstalling btw, just bought an ssd and instead of cloning a fresh start is better. I think Windows by default disables defrag and enables TRIM right?

Any other tips?
Click to expand...
1: WD works fine if youre not downloading shaddy shit
2: search techyescity's yt channel for his optimization guide. its good without going overboard.
3: no idea
4: nope. just disconnect any other drives for the install to avoid confusion and set the ssd as the primary boot device. yes windows do those automatically.
 
grim4593 said:
Odd, I have the CU installed and I haven't had any issue. It still notifies me about updates but doesn't automatically install them. However, once I press the button to install the updates it does enforce a timed reboot, but that is acceptable since it is "manual".
Click to expand...

MS will eventually automatically force the update, it's been this way for a few months now. Disabling the service or tweaking GPO no longer works.
 
I have been using the built-in defender with no issues.
I've been using O&O ShutUp10:Free antispy tool for Windows 10 to disable some of the telemetrics. It encourages you to create a registry backup before proceeding, a process it helps with.
I am running a 500 Samsung SSD and no special configuration was needed. I did end up installing the Samsung Magician to test performance and it seems to be working well.
 
Remove Cortana
Remove OneDrive
Remove Action Center
Remove Unnecessary Built-in Apps
Remove Task View button on the taskbar
Remove Cortana search box
Disable Telemetry
Disable Windows 10 installing apps automatically
Disable automatic updates
Disable Unnecessary Services (Remote Registry/Security Center/Touch Keyboard/ Error Reporting)
Pointer Options>Enhance pointer precision> disable
Settings>Privacy Background Apps> disable
Settings app>Privacy> disable all
Task Manager>Startup>disable all
Power Options>sleep>never
Enable colors on the taskbar/title bars
Enable Photo Viewer
Install: CCleaner, Java, .NET, Chrome, Firefox, 7-Zip, StartisBack, Foxit Reader, MPC-HC
maybe use one of these tools
this is a good guide
 
firas said:
Remove Cortana
Remove OneDrive
Remove Action Center
Remove Unnecessary Built-in Apps
Remove Task View button on the taskbar
Remove Cortana search box
Disable Telemetry
Disable Windows 10 installing apps automatically
Disable automatic updates
Disable Unnecessary Services (Remote Registry/Security Center/Touch Keyboard/ Error Reporting)
Pointer Options>Enhance pointer precision> disable
Settings>Privacy Background Apps> disable
Settings app>Privacy> disable all
Task Manager>Startup>disable all
Power Options>sleep>never
Enable colors on the taskbar/title bars
Enable Photo Viewer
Install: CCleaner, Java, .NET, Chrome, Firefox, 7-Zip, StartisBack, Foxit Reader, MPC-HC
maybe use one of these tools
this is a good guide
Click to expand...

My take on some items here, coming from a long time Windows 10 only desktop user, I get the issues some have, just offering a different view on some on these things I consider not privacy or telemetry issues though I have Store app suggestion in it.

Remove Task View button on the taskbar: I have no idea why one would do this, I find if very useful as way to see what's running. Again, I get the privacy concerns over 10 and if there is one with this feature, again, I've made that point known.

Pointer Options>Enhance pointer precision> disable: You may have a reason to do this, I think this option has been there a while, you'd probably never want to do it on a high DPI display. Just make sure you check this out for yourself.

Enable Photo Viewer: LOTS of better options even if don't like the Windows 10 Photos app, InfranView is WAY better: https://www.irfanview.com/

Xodo, only a Microsoft Store app, its a great lightweight PDF reader/editor for Windows. Free, though it only had the ability open six tabbed docs simultaneously. Very fast, interesting viewing options like a dark mode.
 
Mazzspeed said:
Ever since CCleaner came with built in PUP's it's a big no go for me. Realistically speaking, registry tweakers are no more than snake oil anyway.
Click to expand...
Anyone solely using CCleaner for tweaking things like the registry is not using the program fully. Great for cleaning oddball/misc temp crap.
 
Or you could just decide not to use Windows 10, maybe? :D
 
Yes. Depends on your CPU now (doesn't it?) but Windows 8.1 is like 10 without all the bullshit.
You get the good stuff like improved task manager, and centered window titles, super fast boot/startup times over Windows 7, but none of the shit telemetry or cortana etc.

And since we're in the age where everyone installs www.classicshell.net anyway; Windows 8.1 really should be the defacto go to speedy Windows.
 
PimpUigi said:
Windows 8.1 really should be the defacto go to speedy Windows.
Click to expand...

This is often said by anti-Windows 10 folks but is there really any proof of this? For instance I'd love if game review sites benched games across Windows 7, 8.1 and 10. For Win32 DX 11 and lower games I doubt much would be different across those versions.
 
Heh. The proof for me is running them side by side...
I mean, literally. I have Windows 8.1 and Windows 10 side by side on the same hardware for work PC's. (that I also game on)
Windows 8.1 *always* boots faster, and works more consistently. Less weird driver glitches, less random MadVR bugs. etc.

Like on 1803 (Win10), Fullscreen Exclusive @ 1080p23 forces a composition rate of 60hz and causes random freezing of the video (while the audio keeps going).
If Windows 8.1 had DX12 and worked with like, Ryzen Gen2, it'd be the easy choice for gamers. IMHO.
But Windows 10, eh, at least it's better than 7.
 
PimpUigi said:
Heh. The proof for me is running them side by side...
I mean, literally. I have Windows 8.1 and Windows 10 side by side on the same hardware for work PC's. (that I also game on)
Windows 8.1 *always* boots faster, and works more consistently. Less weird driver glitches, less random MadVR bugs. etc.

Like on 1803 (Win10), Fullscreen Exclusive @ 1080p23 forces a composition rate of 60hz and causes random freezing of the video (while the audio keeps going).
If Windows 8.1 had DX12 and worked with like, Ryzen Gen2, it'd be the easy choice for gamers. IMHO.
But Windows 10, eh, at least it's better than 7.
Click to expand...

You post some specific findings then. My main two PCs these days are my sig rig and a Surface Book 2 15" 512 GB model. Both are on 1803 and the only big issue with anything I use routinely is that the Windows 10 Netflix app will crash playing full screen on my sig rig when using my Sammy 4k monitor. Doesn't happen when using Netflix in Edge even at 4k or when using one of my 1080p monitors.

I get not liking Windows 10 but when you have as much as I do working well under it after all the time I've used it, like all of this stuff if just going to be fine under Windows 8.1 or better with fewer issues when the issues are few to begin with. It's not a matter of being lazy or stupid, but it's like 10k in hardware that works very well for all sorts of things. To go back and set it all up, give up things I know don't work at all, like Netflix 4k, etc. because of how much supposedly faster boot times?
 
I'm not anti Windows 10 - and I agree it's not worth all that effort for 8.1 if you already have 10.
(( but the topic is about fresh installs, and I was just replying to the person who said to not use 10; certainly one should avoid 7 at the very least ))
 
PimpUigi said:
I'm not anti Windows 10 - and I agree it's not worth all that effort for 8.1 if you already have 10.
(( but the topic is about fresh installs, and I was just replying to the person who said to not use 10; certainly one should avoid 7 at the very least ))
Click to expand...

It all comes down to what does one need and want of their device. If one can achieve that without desktop Windows that might be a wise thing to do. I think it's a bad idea to recommend versions of desktop Windows that have no future, Windows 7 being the one only 19 months away from EOL and Windows 8.1 with some more time but essentially abandoned at this point because of its low market share and failure in the enterprise.
 
Mazzspeed said:
So Windows users not only attack Linux users, they also attack one another? ;)
Click to expand...

The thing is there's really nothing to attack anyone over. I use Windows 10 because it supports all that I do. The only thing that I personally stopped using as a result of Windows 10 was Windows Media Center which just isn't that big of deal these days. Always happy to use something better, without being attacked over gaming, VR, OneNote, 2 in 1's, etc.
 
heatlesssun said:
The thing is there's really nothing to attack anyone over. I use Windows 10 because it supports all that I do. The only thing that I personally stopped using as a result of Windows 10 was Windows Media Center which just isn't that big of deal these days. Always happy to use something better, without being attacked over gaming, VR, OneNote, 2 in 1's, etc.
Click to expand...

I usually ignore most of your posts as I'm in no way interested in being drawn into some pointless argument over what OS is better than the other. Based on what I've seen of your postings your issues in these forums stem from the fact that you believe everyone should not only think like you but you honestly seem to believe that your opinion is the only one that matters and is therefore the right one.

The fact is, there is no right opinion just like there is no operating system that's better than another - Life's full of compromises, all that matters is whether the compromise really matters based on your own needs.

Don't judge others and they won't judge you. ;)
 
^^ This is WAY too philosophical. When person or business by a device they generally have expectations of its capabilities. If it works for them great, if it doesn't work for them they'll find something else.
 
heatlesssun said:
^^ This is WAY too philosophical. When person or business by a device they generally have expectations of its capabilities. If it works for them great, if it doesn't work for them they'll find something else.
Click to expand...

In one post you've just proven everything I discussed.

You can take my advice and become part of the broader community, respecting the opinions and decisions of others free from bias, or you can continue to be singled out as an individual that brings gaming and VR into discussions where such discussion is not warranted. It's up to you, I couldn't care less and I'm not interested in debating it.

Don't tell me how you use a computer, I'm well aware of it, you post your usage habits literally every time you get the opportunity.
 
Mazzspeed said:
In one post you've just proven everything I discussed.

You can take my advice and become part of the broader community, respecting the opinions and decisions of others free from bias, or you can continue to be singled out as an individual that brings gaming and VR into discussions where such discussion is not warranted. It's up to you, I couldn't care less and I'm not interested in debating it.

Don't tell me how you use a computer, I'm well aware of it, you post your usage habits literally every time you get the opportunity.
Click to expand...

I have no idea how it's biased to say that people buy something with certain expectations and that if those expectations aren't met they'll go elsewhere. I use Windows 10 because it supports all that want and need from my PC devices and there's no alternative, except maybe an older version of Windows that's going to have a hard to supporting the Windows 10 specific things I used now.

I've never said that my expectations applied to everyone.
 
firas said:
Remove Cortana
Remove OneDrive
Remove Action Center
Remove Unnecessary Built-in Apps
Remove Task View button on the taskbar
Remove Cortana search box
Disable Telemetry
Disable Windows 10 installing apps automatically
Disable automatic updates
Disable Unnecessary Services (Remote Registry/Security Center/Touch Keyboard/ Error Reporting)
Pointer Options>Enhance pointer precision> disable
Settings>Privacy Background Apps> disable
Settings app>Privacy> disable all
Task Manager>Startup>disable all
Power Options>sleep>never
Enable colors on the taskbar/title bars
Enable Photo Viewer
Install: CCleaner, Java, .NET, Chrome, Firefox, 7-Zip, StartisBack, Foxit Reader, MPC-HC
maybe use one of these tools
this is a good guide
Click to expand...

Disable automatic updates? That is bad advice. Yes I know some updates have caused issues, that happens in every OS.
Extra services don't use any resources if they aren't used. In some cases they won't even get loaded.

I use OneDrive. Why wouldn't I? It syncs all my settings and I have free 15GB storage.
Same for Action Center. What possible reason is there to disable it?

Disabling sleep - shouldn't this be up to the user?
And disabling all sytartup apps - that's just stupid. There are essential apps in there.

I really don't get why there is so much MS hate.

Are people told to disable all the similar features on OSX. No.
Are people told to disable all startup services and apps in Linux. No.

So why is it not ok to run them on Windows?
 
I am sick of all the MS hatred and FUD on the internet. Windows 10 is easily their best OS. I was a big critic of 8/8.1 due to the Start menu disaster and focus on tablet users. All that is fixed in 10, it is lighter and faster. So yes there is extra telemetry and some privacy concerns, but less than Google/Apple/Facebook, and those companies get a pass because they aren't MS.

Anyone daring to say anything nice about Windows 10 is immediately labelled an apologist.
 
MrCrispy said:
I am sick of all the MS hatred and FUD on the internet. Windows 10 is easily their best OS. I was a big critic of 8/8.1 due to the Start menu disaster and focus on tablet users.
Click to expand...

I use Windows 10 daily with keyboard, mouse, touch and ink input. I think Microsoft has done a solid job getting all of this to work with a single UI. I think that's a much better approach than multiple UIs that work here but not there. More can be done I think the approach is sound.

MrCrispy said:
Anyone daring to say anything nice about Windows 10 is immediately labelled an apologist.
Click to expand...

I does get silly. Sure 10 has it's problems but the way some describe it no one could possible use it because they are constantly waiting on updates to complete. Windows 10 is really the only way to go for guaranteed support of all the latest and greatest in PC hardware and software support going forward.
 
MrCrispy said:
Are people told to disable all startup services and apps in Linux. No.

So why is it not ok to run them on Windows?
Click to expand...

Just to be clear most linux distros do not collect data from you. Most don't have a ton of startup services, most give even green Linux users pretty clear ways to remove (or not install) tons of unneeded stuff. Even things like printer services can be un or not installed if they are unneeded.

Anyway I only post to say...
https://www.howtogeek.com/349844/how-to-stop-ubuntu-from-collecting-data-about-your-pc/
Ya even in the Linux world if you run a distro that does collect things... people will say hey you can shut that off and here's how.

If you want to report hardware and software your using to the distro maintainer or MS or Apple ect... go ahead its turned on be default. Still nice to have the option. (in Ubuntus defense it does ask when you install it if you want to opt out of most of those things... the populatirty contest stuff at least is easy to remove you can even remove it from a GUI package software if you are really terminal adverse).
 
Windows 10 makes it just as easy, and in fact easier than many Linux distros, to turn on/off startup apps. And those startup entries don't collect data from the user!

I was responding to the poster who advised turning off all startup entries - that is spectacularly bad advice.

Whether or not a user should turn on telemetry e.g. there are tons of apps which will have telemetry, e.g. Chrome, Firefox etc, is entirely up to the user. I will not consider this a bug like so many people do.

I repeat people are simply paranoid haters - a common advice is to turn off the ability of Windows 10 to fetch the latest wallpaper from Bing for the login screen. That is an extremely good feature that makes your pc look beautiful, but because its MS, its eeeevvviiiiil.

But gues what - I am looking at Manjaro righ now and thee are options to get wallpaper from a bunch of online sources, but what's considered perfectly ok.

There are many similar examples. Lets just face it there's a double standard when it comes to Windows and MS.
 
There is no double standard at all... just a standard. Its simple MS has a long history of straight up evil behavior. Does google collect data... yep have they had a oh crap moment yet. Not so far but that could change... and yes people have been warning about Google, so far they simply have not been as evil. Take Facebook... lots of people said this is a bad idea for a long time, seems like they are getting some blow back now that they have openly dropped the ball on all that data. I'm sure facebook is going to skate by and everyone will be back to sharing cat pics in no time... but if someone says look facebook is evil in 5 years that will not be a "double standard" that is called having an actual memory longer then a month.

MS claims they are on the up and up these days... and you know what perhaps, perhaps not.

MS has even tried to play nice with the FOSS community, open sourcing a handful of MS tech. I don't trust them on such things as MS has burned us all in the past on very much the same types of things. IE is the easiest one to point at.... open standards sure until MS releases a new version of X and reads things differently. They did (and still do) the same thing with MS office, helping write the open source doc format and then changing the way their software saves and loads what was supposed to be an open standard. Those are hostile acts, and the reason I will not easily forgive MS.

I guess the question is how long is too long to remember bad corp. behaviour ? I guess I'm supposed to say oh they have a new CEO, and those court cases where 10 years ago ? Or am I supposed to say oh messing with the open standards of the Internet... or the Doc formats. I mean its been what 5 years since all that I forgive them.

Na I don't forgive them, and its going to take a lot longer then a few years for many others to forget as well. Hell believe it or not their are still web workers out their today having to screw with code for IE.... ActiveX has only been dead 3 years. MS behaviour isn't easy to forget when you still have to deal with the fall out of some of their blunders.

So its not surprising to me that when 10 launched and it became clear that it was mining data at an OS level for Bing and all the other things 10 was lambasted for that many users said woo hoo here MS has proven they can't be trusted.

Its just a standard;
"Fool me once shame on you... Fool me twice shame on me." MS is asking everyone to trust them, after saying shame on us sorry here we pay our fines and golden paracute our leadership out for some new blood. Trust us. Ya no thanks wasn't born yesterday.
 
Last edited:
MS has no more history of 'evil' behavior than any other big corp, they just happen to be a nice target. But enough of that, I do want to reply to one specific point - which is your questioning their contributions to open source.

Things like VsCode are a godsend, its become the standard for programmers, even those who hate MS have come around. They have a ton of contributions like gitfs wihch have made a big impact. Thei latest announcement of Azure Sphere is something no one else even comes close to doing - its years ahead of what AWS and Google Cloud offer.

And as much as everyone likes to blame IE, remember these simple facts :-

- browsers weren't free. IE being given away is what forced Netscape to make Navigator free and without that they'd still be an app you needed to buy
- MS invented Ajax (XMLHttpRequest) which is basically the cornerstone of the modern web for the last decade at least

The one things MS values above all is backwards compatibility and not breaking peoples systems. This is why IE had so many hacks because tons of companies used it internally. Apple doesn't care about compatibility at all - they break stuff intentionally to force people to upgrade. You can do that when you spot lies in each press conference and claim to have invented everything and your customer base is people who think everything new and shiny is cool.

Personal computing just wouldn't be here without MS. We can now go back to the regularly scheduled FUD :)
 
MrCrispy said:
Personal computing just wouldn't be here without MS. We can now go back to the regularly scheduled FUD :)
Click to expand...

Speaking of extreme apple like FUD. lol

Personal computing was here before MS, will be here after MS. Think we'll just have to disagree on the value of the MS contributions to pretty much everything.

Its too bad MS didn't get broken up as the first non paid off judges ruling recommended. (really even if you love MS chances are they would have been far more innovative and the chances of windows 8 ever being a thing would have been zero... and ya 10 may have actually been a good OS) MS did a good job of getting that judge replaced with one of the ¢orp friendly paid off variety... that and Bush being elected I guess.
 
I pointed out facts which are not in dispute unlike personal opinions. You can disagree all you want, it doesn't change facts.

Speaking of Apple, they are the ones who have a long history of lies and FUD. e.g. https://www.zdnet.com/article/apple-was-the-first-major-open-source-company/. But they are considered the darlings of the tech world despite being the most proprietary, closed and anti-consumer company.

A world in which Apple decides the future of personal computing - now that truly is a nightmare.
 
ChadD said:
and ya 10 may have actually been a good OS
Click to expand...

You don't like 10 and that's fine. I can't install your "real OS" and have anything but tons of problems. So from my perspective your "real OS" isn't particularly "good".
 
Amazing how one person here really hopes for a severely walled off garden approach to win in the end, Chrome OS. In the PC world, since IBM gave up on OS/2, Microsoft is the reason personal computing is here. No, before Microsoft made things accessible to the masses, personal computing was not really available. I was an Amiga user but, it died because Commodore did not have a clue what to do with it long term.

Oh, and Windows 10 is a good OS. Linux Desktop is never going to have it's year, not in 1998, 2008, 2018 nor 2028.

So MrCrispy, how did the clean install go? I did mine again about 3 weeks ago and everything went smooth, until I messed something up, personally. I could not find the fix to make Cortana Text to phone work again except a redo from scratch.
 
ManofGod said:
Amazing how one person here really hopes for a severely walled off garden approach to win in the end, Chrome OS. In the PC world, since IBM gave up on OS/2, Microsoft is the reason personal computing is here. No, before Microsoft made things accessible to the masses, personal computing was not really available. I was an Amiga user but, it died because Commodore did not have a clue what to do with it long term.

Oh, and Windows 10 is a good OS. Linux Desktop is never going to have it's year, not in 1998, 2008, 2018 nor 2028.

So MrCrispy, how did the clean install go? I did mine again about 3 weeks ago and everything went smooth, until I messed something up, personally. I could not find the fix to make Cortana Text to phone work again except a redo from scratch.
Click to expand...

It went fine. I was looking for an iso later than the Fall creators update which was last year but that was the latest one officially available from the MS download tool, so I ended up getting an iso from one of the Windows sites, which ended up being the version of the 1803 April update which was pulled, so my desktop now shows 'Insiders preview'. I think its identical since Windows update doesnt find anything newer.

Its funny you mentioned chrome os, its a toy. I am typing this from a chromebook which I picked up for cheap used, its perfect for browsing, but in 5 years they still have 0 features to connect to other pc's and the whole OS is very limiting. Meanwhile I see Linux and OSX copying features pioneered by MS all the time.

LOTD will never happen even if they got 100B dollars investment. Linux is fragmented by design and thats the way they want it, they will never agree to standardize any goddamn thing. Just look at what an uproar systemd, one of the best things to happen, caused.

OSX is always going to be a crippled, shiny OS with expensive apps locked to expensive hardware. I'm not even sure Apple won't merge it with iOS the way they are going.

So Windows is the only actual option for normal people to use computers. And it also happens to be the fastest and rock solid stable and works with ever hw device ever made, and its free (actually free upgrade, and if not no one ever pays for it as it comes included with the pc you buy). People just love to complain and hate MS.
 
MrCrispy said:
So Windows is the only actual option for normal people to use computers.
Click to expand...

If you have needs beyond the basics I'd agree. ChromeOS is all that a lot of people would need but then mostly all you're getting a just a bigger version of a phone or tablet.
 
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