Please forgive me, as I'm sure this is going to be way too long of a post. I have been running this rig for almost a year now. I've had a few harware upgrades, but it has all been on the same install of Windows MCE 05. During my first few months, I got a little crazy with the downloading and installing useless programs, GUI Customizers, tons of pics, game demos, etc. I have found that is not the way to keep your system efficient. I have done my best to clean it up, but its a PITA. Another thing I did, thinking I was so clever, was divided my hard drive up into partitions, which is great, but I allocated the space horribly. 200Gb Maxtor SATA got chopped into: 1 -15Gb partition for the OS, 1 - 50Gb partition for games, 1 - 20Gb partition for programs. Then awhile back I realized the fault of my action. I ran out of game ( and later program) space and had to partition off another 50Gb cleverly labeled "Storage". lol I have been thinking about just starting over with a fresh install, to get back that "peppy" fresh install performance. (you know what I'm talking about, how smooth everything is at first?) I just got my girlfiend's PC up and running, and I am jealous of how smooth it is. And that sucks, cause she has my old mobo (gigabyte) and an Athlon 64 3200+ @ stock speed. The problem is that along with all the garbage that I want to get rid of, is a lot of things that I want/need. Most of the stuff I want is all to do with my games. I have a lot of custom maps, skins, etc. that were downloaded in bits and pieces over a year's time. It would take forever to redo all of that. So, I finally get down to my question. How can I back up all the stuff I want to save and put it into the new install. I know I will have to reinstall all my games. That is fine, I only have a few that I play right now. System drivers, I can do them too. Doesn't matter. Windows has just gotten too sluggish. Now that I know what happens, I think I can prevent it from getting so bad next time around. I don't expect someone to lay it all out step by step here, but if you guys could give me some advice/pointers and possibly point me to a guide or something, that would be awesome. Thanks in advance.
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Fresh install
- Thread starter Deejay3d
- Start date
One good reason for splitting up a large hard drive is to keep the system partition with the OS and the most commonly used applications in a small-ish space which makes backing that up or starting over nice and clean (clean meaning a freshly formatted partition, not just a partition where you delete some stuff) a relatively easy task.
If you've got games you need to back up, obviously DVD media is the ticket. If you've got some money, go buy another hard drive just for back up duties. Fry's and a lot of retailers regularly sell 250GB-350GB SATA hard drives for ~$75 these days. That would let you offload the data you've currently got to someplace "safe" while you redo the machine as you'd like.
There's nothing wrong with splitting the drive(s) into partitions. You did a good thing there, but I guess it comes down to maybe a bit shortsighted future plans since you ended up requiring more space than you actually had when you made the layout in the first place.
Most games don't need to be reinstalled, that's the most important point I can make. They typically keep everything neatly installed in one directory, with the possibility of a "saved games" directory either in My Documents or someplace else. Most 'saved game" files aren't that large either, so that just makes it that much easier.
I still say get some blank DVD media - assuming you have a DVD burner, that is... if not, go get one, and a big stack of blank DVDs too, I recommend TDK or Sony blank media personally, and get to burning. It's relatively quick, easy to do these days, and provides you with some long term storage that's not susceptible to possible malware damage as it might be if it sits on a backup hard drive.
Hope this helps...
If you've got games you need to back up, obviously DVD media is the ticket. If you've got some money, go buy another hard drive just for back up duties. Fry's and a lot of retailers regularly sell 250GB-350GB SATA hard drives for ~$75 these days. That would let you offload the data you've currently got to someplace "safe" while you redo the machine as you'd like.
There's nothing wrong with splitting the drive(s) into partitions. You did a good thing there, but I guess it comes down to maybe a bit shortsighted future plans since you ended up requiring more space than you actually had when you made the layout in the first place.
Most games don't need to be reinstalled, that's the most important point I can make. They typically keep everything neatly installed in one directory, with the possibility of a "saved games" directory either in My Documents or someplace else. Most 'saved game" files aren't that large either, so that just makes it that much easier.
I still say get some blank DVD media - assuming you have a DVD burner, that is... if not, go get one, and a big stack of blank DVDs too, I recommend TDK or Sony blank media personally, and get to burning. It's relatively quick, easy to do these days, and provides you with some long term storage that's not susceptible to possible malware damage as it might be if it sits on a backup hard drive.
Hope this helps...
BIGDADDY51
2[H]4U
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- Jul 26, 2005
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Nero 7 express works wonders and can be found for around $6 oem. Iburned ALL my copys of Vista Beta, and not 1 coaster with a Lite-ON DVDRW from Newegg $30
Ive got Vista Ultimate on two XRaptors raid0, and XP Pro on two XRaptors raid0. In the raid configuration the drives equal 280gig each. I have them partitioned at 140, 140. I did a fresh install of Vista and Ive had ZERO problems since. Infact today there is an update for Vista 64 bit. That's me. So far Im spending way more time inside Vista than XP. When the drivers are all done, and there is a service pack or two Ill raid0 all four drives and go Vista only.
What hasn't been mentioned yet is that the most straightforward approach to backing up and protecting all that data is to go grab another hard drive and bung it in the system as a secondary drive. Then simply copy your necessary data over to it. After doing so you can wipe the original drive, change the partition structure, do whatever you want. The copying across can be done in Windows. The partition changes can be done with a DOS based tool downloadable from your hard drive manufacturer's website.
Sure, another drive is more expensive than some blank DVDs. But it isn't prohibitively expensive. Hard drives nowadays are high capacity and are relatively inexpensive. Anybody who maintains large stores of data should have double the drive storage space they think they need, so they can do quick and painless data backups.
Edit: I would advise, if you plan to have a separate partition for the Windows installation, to allocate 40Gb to that as a minimum. Especially so if you use a Microsoft multimedia management solution and maintain libraries of electronic content. Those libraries can take up large amounts of drive space.
Sure, another drive is more expensive than some blank DVDs. But it isn't prohibitively expensive. Hard drives nowadays are high capacity and are relatively inexpensive. Anybody who maintains large stores of data should have double the drive storage space they think they need, so they can do quick and painless data backups.
Edit: I would advise, if you plan to have a separate partition for the Windows installation, to allocate 40Gb to that as a minimum. Especially so if you use a Microsoft multimedia management solution and maintain libraries of electronic content. Those libraries can take up large amounts of drive space.
Thanks for replying so quickly..
So, do you mean I can just move the game file, or "directory" to another hard drive, (or DVD) wipe the original clean, reinstall Windows, then just move the file back into the new windows?
Yes, I do have a DVD burner, and conveniently, I have a stack of TDK blank DVD's right here.
Yes that does help, but I am still a bit unsure. The way I am understanding it, is I just copy whatever I want to keep onto a DVD, then get rid of all the junk, reinstall, then just add the stuff I wanted to keep. Correct? I am a little iffy about the games. I know I can get the file into the new install. But then what, create a shortcut to the App file on the desktop? And the game will function as if nothing ever happened? Sounds too good to be true.
BTW, I have a 250Gb External HDD. That would substitute the DVD's right? That would save me a lot of hassle and would probably be faster.
So, do you mean I can just move the game file, or "directory" to another hard drive, (or DVD) wipe the original clean, reinstall Windows, then just move the file back into the new windows?
.
Yes, I do have a DVD burner, and conveniently, I have a stack of TDK blank DVD's right here.
Yes that does help, but I am still a bit unsure. The way I am understanding it, is I just copy whatever I want to keep onto a DVD, then get rid of all the junk, reinstall, then just add the stuff I wanted to keep. Correct? I am a little iffy about the games. I know I can get the file into the new install. But then what, create a shortcut to the App file on the desktop? And the game will function as if nothing ever happened? Sounds too good to be true.BTW, I have a 250Gb External HDD. That would substitute the DVD's right? That would save me a lot of hassle and would probably be faster.
40Gb? Really that much? I've heard many people say that they never use more than 15-20 at the most for XP. Supposed to limit the access times, so it goes. As far as a "microsoft media management solution", do you mean "My Pictures" and "My Music"? Yes, sort of use them, I guess. I usually move them to another partition, cause I tend to save way too many pics of things to show people and whatnot. So I put them where there is more room. And music, uhhmm... yeah.. thats where the External HDD comes in. Last time I checked, I have over 90Gb of music.
What I meant was exactly what I said: most games don't need to be reinstalled because they typically (tricky word there) install themselves into a single directory; they don't splatter their files all over the place.
In my experience, I've never come across a game that actually needed to be completely reinstalled clean for any real reasons; the saved game data (your user profiles, saved map locations, etc etc) all usually end up either in the game directory itself or in some kind of saved games directory in My Documents. I know most games put out by Microsoft itself will follow this methodology; after installing something like Halo or Combat Flight Simulator, you end up with a My Games directory inside My Documents and the game's save data is kept there - the user profiles, saved games, map locations, etc.
I don't know what games you have, but typically (there's that word again) you shouldn't have any major issues or hassles if you simply copy the game directory as is from wherever it is right now to a safe location for the backup, like that 250GB drive you say you've got.
I'm not saying this type of instant backup - just copying the entire game directory - will work in the long run. There's only one way to know for sure. But in my experience, again, all I've really had to do was the copy of the directory from Program Files\<game name> and then copy it back as well as any saved game data files from inside that directory (part of the file copy) or from another location, perhaps the My Documents directory.
All this stuff is dependent on the games themselves and how they keep the user data either with the game files or in a seperate location. That is something you're going to have to work out yourself.
If you've got that 250GB drive, use that for the games, that would save you the trouble of making the directories "fit" onto neatly sized DVD chunks of roughly 4.5GB or so (to keep it inside the 4.7GB max, which actually means don't load it with more than 4.3GB of data.
It would be a LOT faster to backup the games by using that additional hard drive, and it would be a LOT faster restoring them too.
Worse case scenario: you may have to reinstall all the software totally. It's a bitch, yes, but sometimes it's a good thing.
Hope this helps...
ps
Yes you'd have to recreate the game shortcuts again since those are created during the original installation.
In my experience, I've never come across a game that actually needed to be completely reinstalled clean for any real reasons; the saved game data (your user profiles, saved map locations, etc etc) all usually end up either in the game directory itself or in some kind of saved games directory in My Documents. I know most games put out by Microsoft itself will follow this methodology; after installing something like Halo or Combat Flight Simulator, you end up with a My Games directory inside My Documents and the game's save data is kept there - the user profiles, saved games, map locations, etc.
I don't know what games you have, but typically (there's that word again) you shouldn't have any major issues or hassles if you simply copy the game directory as is from wherever it is right now to a safe location for the backup, like that 250GB drive you say you've got.
I'm not saying this type of instant backup - just copying the entire game directory - will work in the long run. There's only one way to know for sure. But in my experience, again, all I've really had to do was the copy of the directory from Program Files\<game name> and then copy it back as well as any saved game data files from inside that directory (part of the file copy) or from another location, perhaps the My Documents directory.
All this stuff is dependent on the games themselves and how they keep the user data either with the game files or in a seperate location. That is something you're going to have to work out yourself.
If you've got that 250GB drive, use that for the games, that would save you the trouble of making the directories "fit" onto neatly sized DVD chunks of roughly 4.5GB or so (to keep it inside the 4.7GB max, which actually means don't load it with more than 4.3GB of data.
It would be a LOT faster to backup the games by using that additional hard drive, and it would be a LOT faster restoring them too.
Worse case scenario: you may have to reinstall all the software totally. It's a bitch, yes, but sometimes it's a good thing.
Hope this helps...
ps
Yes you'd have to recreate the game shortcuts again since those are created during the original installation.
The external drive is a great alternative to use.
Sometimes gamesaves will be in the 'Documents and Settings' folder somewhere. Sometimes they will be in the game program installation folder somewhere.
Simplest solution? If you have plenty of hard drive space available on another drive then simply copy across the entire 'Documents and Settings' folder structure, the intire games programs installation structure, and any other folders you've created outside of the 'My Documents' arrangement for data storage. (My Documents is inside Documents and Settings)
Do your partition changes. Install Windows clean. Update and configure it. Install your programs and configure those.
Then copy back only the data you want, finding and copying back any savegames and such you wish to keep. When you've finished retrieving the stuff you want, delete the backup stuff to reclaim the storage space on the external drive.
Sometimes gamesaves will be in the 'Documents and Settings' folder somewhere. Sometimes they will be in the game program installation folder somewhere.
Simplest solution? If you have plenty of hard drive space available on another drive then simply copy across the entire 'Documents and Settings' folder structure, the intire games programs installation structure, and any other folders you've created outside of the 'My Documents' arrangement for data storage. (My Documents is inside Documents and Settings)
Do your partition changes. Install Windows clean. Update and configure it. Install your programs and configure those.
Then copy back only the data you want, finding and copying back any savegames and such you wish to keep. When you've finished retrieving the stuff you want, delete the backup stuff to reclaim the storage space on the external drive.
Hang on a bit. What's being suggested here?
If you wipe the drive and install Windows again fresh and clean you will have to install ALL your programs again, and that includes your games! Any advice to the contrary is incorrect. A lot of people use a different partition or drive as the location for their game and program installation. When that is done a format/fresh install still means the programs need to be installed again. The benefit of doing this is that user configuration files for games and programs will still be there in place when you install the software again, so configuration won't need to be replicated.
If you wipe the drive and install Windows again fresh and clean you will have to install ALL your programs again, and that includes your games! Any advice to the contrary is incorrect. A lot of people use a different partition or drive as the location for their game and program installation. When that is done a format/fresh install still means the programs need to be installed again. The benefit of doing this is that user configuration files for games and programs will still be there in place when you install the software again, so configuration won't need to be replicated.
You're coming into this thread and jumping immediately to "Any advice to the contrary" and you're wrong, so be careful - we've already clarified stuff in this thread if you'd take the time to read through it. Your comment about "What's being suggested here?" leads me to think you just took a quick and rather cursory glance over the content and didn't read every last word said so far.
None of the advice given so far should be avoided; it's all accurate across the board, and even covers some "failsafe" actions and information where I specifically said what the worst case scenario is... so be mindful of that when you pop in like you just did.
I'm sorry if I've misunderstood here, but making a backup of a game installation directory and then later copying it back after a format/fresh install will not make the game available for use within Windows. The game will have to be reinstalled.
As I understand the comments made, the suggestion has been that games may NOT need to be reinstalled. That would be an incorrect claim. Copying the game installation directory back to a clean Windows install won't recreate the registry entries which tell Windows that the game is installed and available for use. Installing the game does that.
As I understand the comments made, the suggestion has been that games may NOT need to be reinstalled. That would be an incorrect claim. Copying the game installation directory back to a clean Windows install won't recreate the registry entries which tell Windows that the game is installed and available for use. Installing the game does that.
Hence me making the comment about restoring the shortcuts manually.
I've got the following games backed up with just the methodology I described:
Quake I
Quake II
Quake III
Doom III
Halo
Combat Flight Simulator
Warcraft
Starcraft
Diablo I
Diablo II
Farcry (don't play it much but it's been restored several times from the backup)
and a whole slew of others backed up safely to DVD media as I mentioned above. All of them were burned to DVD directly from the Program Files\<game directory> with no modifications to anything; just a straight burn of the game directory to the media along with the "saved game" directories when appropriate.
Again, the worst case scenario is that the OP might need to reinstall the games completely clean, and my suggestion(s) would perform 2 tasks:
1) make a complete reinstall unnecessary
2) save his all important game data, maps, levels, etc; all the stuff he's been collecting over the period of time he's own the games and ran them from the current installations
I have a single dual layer DVD here with Quake 1 and 1.2GB of mods/maps/patches on it; Quake II with 2.4GB of the same type of materials; and Quake 3 with 4.1GB of the same stuff, and I can restore any of it or all of it anytime I want and create a shortcut on the Desktop and wham, run any of it.
I've never come across a game that demanded a clean install as long as you back up the entire game directory as well as any pertinent data files that might be necessary. Most games, at least the better written ones, will give you specific instructions on how to make sure you save your all important profile data/saved game info, and some even will tell you "You don't have to reinstall the game completely clean if you reinstall the OS." I've seen that in several manuals before, so it can and is often done.
Hope this helps...
I've got the following games backed up with just the methodology I described:
Quake I
Quake II
Quake III
Doom III
Halo
Combat Flight Simulator
Warcraft
Starcraft
Diablo I
Diablo II
Farcry (don't play it much but it's been restored several times from the backup)
and a whole slew of others backed up safely to DVD media as I mentioned above. All of them were burned to DVD directly from the Program Files\<game directory> with no modifications to anything; just a straight burn of the game directory to the media along with the "saved game" directories when appropriate.
Again, the worst case scenario is that the OP might need to reinstall the games completely clean, and my suggestion(s) would perform 2 tasks:
1) make a complete reinstall unnecessary
2) save his all important game data, maps, levels, etc; all the stuff he's been collecting over the period of time he's own the games and ran them from the current installations
I have a single dual layer DVD here with Quake 1 and 1.2GB of mods/maps/patches on it; Quake II with 2.4GB of the same type of materials; and Quake 3 with 4.1GB of the same stuff, and I can restore any of it or all of it anytime I want and create a shortcut on the Desktop and wham, run any of it.
I've never come across a game that demanded a clean install as long as you back up the entire game directory as well as any pertinent data files that might be necessary. Most games, at least the better written ones, will give you specific instructions on how to make sure you save your all important profile data/saved game info, and some even will tell you "You don't have to reinstall the game completely clean if you reinstall the OS." I've seen that in several manuals before, so it can and is often done.
Hope this helps...
Please forgive the topic sidetrack here, Deejay3d, but it's sorta relevent.
bbz_Ghost, are you saying that for those games (and some others) copying the program installation folder (and savegames if necessary) back after a format/fresh install will give a working installation of the game, which can be launched from the relevent file in the game installation folder, and that you can create a desktop or Start menu shortcut to it to get things operational again?
That's not something I've ever tried doing, which is why I ask.
That method, of course, wouldn't make the game visible to Add/Remove programs or anything else which needed to detect it in registry entries. But to some people that wouldn't be a problem.
bbz_Ghost, are you saying that for those games (and some others) copying the program installation folder (and savegames if necessary) back after a format/fresh install will give a working installation of the game, which can be launched from the relevent file in the game installation folder, and that you can create a desktop or Start menu shortcut to it to get things operational again?
That's not something I've ever tried doing, which is why I ask.
That method, of course, wouldn't make the game visible to Add/Remove programs or anything else which needed to detect it in registry entries. But to some people that wouldn't be a problem.
Why bother with Add/Remove programs when you can just delete the directory directly?
So yes, you're getting my meaning correctly. The only way you'll know for sure is to test it out yourself, if you're game (no pun intended).
I do this all the time; the benefit is I rarely if ever need to pull the original game media out from it's relatively safe storage spot risking possible damage.
I've been doing that with my Quake games for nearly 10 years now, hence the size of all the mods/maps/skins/etc. I've got quite a collection going...
This process has never failed for me when I restore(d) a game, so I can't see why it wouldn't work for others as well.
Installing a game primarily creates shortcuts pointing to the game directory and Desktop/Start Menu stuff; I've never come across a game that so tightly integrates itself into the Registry that you have to reinstall it completely between OS installs.
That would be something to see...
So yes, you're getting my meaning correctly. The only way you'll know for sure is to test it out yourself, if you're game (no pun intended).
I do this all the time; the benefit is I rarely if ever need to pull the original game media out from it's relatively safe storage spot risking possible damage.
I've been doing that with my Quake games for nearly 10 years now, hence the size of all the mods/maps/skins/etc. I've got quite a collection going...
This process has never failed for me when I restore(d) a game, so I can't see why it wouldn't work for others as well.
Installing a game primarily creates shortcuts pointing to the game directory and Desktop/Start Menu stuff; I've never come across a game that so tightly integrates itself into the Registry that you have to reinstall it completely between OS installs.
That would be something to see...
Fair enough then. I think you should be clearer about what you mean in your suggestions, though. Seems to me that you are sometimes using the word 'shortcuts' when you're actually referring to registry entries. Technically, a registry entry could be claimed to be a shortcut, but it's not a usage of technical terminology which is common.
I think it also fair that, when such suggestions are made, the limitations of techniques are acknowledged and explained. Otherwise it can lead other readers, who aren't privy to your thoughts and experiences, to later suffer confusion. An "Oh hell! I can't uninstall it!" is quite possibly a fear somebody is going to encounter down the track a bit.
That said, I thank you for the explanation. It's not a matter I'd explored previously. I tend to try keeping things 'playing by the rules' as far as possible, because I'm advising people at a consumer level day in and day out.
I think it also fair that, when such suggestions are made, the limitations of techniques are acknowledged and explained. Otherwise it can lead other readers, who aren't privy to your thoughts and experiences, to later suffer confusion. An "Oh hell! I can't uninstall it!" is quite possibly a fear somebody is going to encounter down the track a bit.
That said, I thank you for the explanation. It's not a matter I'd explored previously. I tend to try keeping things 'playing by the rules' as far as possible, because I'm advising people at a consumer level day in and day out.
Been doing the consumer thing almost daily for 3 decades, so I have the background, no worries there.
Games "register" themself with the operating system by dropping a few "hints" as I'd call them in the Registry; I have yet to see a game that actually makes the kind of Registry entries where those entries are crucial to the operation of the game and only happen during the installation of the game to begin with.
More often than not - and I say that based on my own experience - any game I've ever used personally is transportable across installations of the operating system, meaning I can back up the game directory and relevant files, and when I copy them back to the original location or I simply choose to run them from the new location (where applicable), there's no issue with doing so.
Obviously I can't run my Quake games off that DVD because the game modifies the config.q3 file most nearly every time it runs - the dual layer DVD isn't a rewritable, and even if it were I don't use packet writing software so instant edits and rewrites on such media just won't work.
Besides, even on my Plextor 18x DVD drive trying to play such games would be excruciatingly slow when it comes to loading levels. One of my favorite things when I have a machine that's capable is to run any of the Quake games off a RAMdisk using system RAM - of course that typically means a machine with 1GB for Quake 1 and 2, and over 1GB for Quake 3. Talk about fast - I'm always the first person on a level when I run the games that way, and it pisses my opponents off in the extremes.
So, I guess the appropriate term is transportable: I've never encountered a game that isn't transportable from one Windows installation to another, save for the obvious shortcuts on the Start Menu and Desktop, etc, and the saved game directories being restored to the previous locations from the previous installation.
It can't hurt to test this out yourself, that's all I can say at this point. It works for me, but as with any suggestion, even with the same games on the same exact hardware and the same exact OS...
YMMV.
Games "register" themself with the operating system by dropping a few "hints" as I'd call them in the Registry; I have yet to see a game that actually makes the kind of Registry entries where those entries are crucial to the operation of the game and only happen during the installation of the game to begin with.
More often than not - and I say that based on my own experience - any game I've ever used personally is transportable across installations of the operating system, meaning I can back up the game directory and relevant files, and when I copy them back to the original location or I simply choose to run them from the new location (where applicable), there's no issue with doing so.
Obviously I can't run my Quake games off that DVD because the game modifies the config.q3 file most nearly every time it runs - the dual layer DVD isn't a rewritable, and even if it were I don't use packet writing software so instant edits and rewrites on such media just won't work.
Besides, even on my Plextor 18x DVD drive trying to play such games would be excruciatingly slow when it comes to loading levels. One of my favorite things when I have a machine that's capable is to run any of the Quake games off a RAMdisk using system RAM - of course that typically means a machine with 1GB for Quake 1 and 2, and over 1GB for Quake 3. Talk about fast - I'm always the first person on a level when I run the games that way, and it pisses my opponents off in the extremes.
So, I guess the appropriate term is transportable: I've never encountered a game that isn't transportable from one Windows installation to another, save for the obvious shortcuts on the Start Menu and Desktop, etc, and the saved game directories being restored to the previous locations from the previous installation.
It can't hurt to test this out yourself, that's all I can say at this point. It works for me, but as with any suggestion, even with the same games on the same exact hardware and the same exact OS...
YMMV.
Believe it or not, I have actually picked up some great info, while spectataing the "debate". lol I think I got a pretty good grasp on what needs to be done. I guess worst case scenario is that I will have to reinstall a few games, lose some game hours, and some custom maps that I can redownload when needs be. Its not like I have a bunch of crucial data that I cannot afford to lose, right? Thanks for takin the time out to learn a youngin a few things. I'll check back and let you know how it went. Thanks again!
BTW/ The games I am talking about are F.E.A.R. (single and COMBAT), Quake 4, Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2, and Battlefield 2142, which now that I think about it, is served through EA games online, if I am correct. I do have a few save folders on my PC, but I was under the impression that it was a bit like Valve games, since I have to log on to an account to play. And speaking of Valve, with Steam apps like Hallf Life 2 and Counter Strike, don't all the game files work through Steam's online server, or is that just the game app itself, and I am responsble for the save games? At any rate, I know how save and put my Source Mods back where they need to be, so that should be fine. Thanks again guys..
I'll check back and let you know how it went. Thanks again!BTW/ The games I am talking about are F.E.A.R. (single and COMBAT), Quake 4, Neverwinter Nights 1 and 2, and Battlefield 2142, which now that I think about it, is served through EA games online, if I am correct. I do have a few save folders on my PC, but I was under the impression that it was a bit like Valve games, since I have to log on to an account to play. And speaking of Valve, with Steam apps like Hallf Life 2 and Counter Strike, don't all the game files work through Steam's online server, or is that just the game app itself, and I am responsble for the save games? At any rate, I know how save and put my Source Mods back where they need to be, so that should be fine. Thanks again guys..