Frame limiter - in game - to address screen tears? (No GSync / FreeSync on a 60hz Monitor w/ 3070)

DarkSideA8

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I've got a 3070 and a 60hz 1080p monitor (to deal with for the near future while I await release of the 32" fast IPS 4ks). I've been trying (successfully) to up my framerates in Tarkov... which I can push into the 130s -- but now I'm seeing screen tears and jags as I pan the camera (as in, 'fast scanning for enemies'). IOW, the jags and tears are making it more difficult to spot pests than before.

The monitor I'm on does not have FreeSync / GSync or any of that (10 year old HP ZR24w). However, Tarkov does offer an in-game limiter. Something I'm totally unused to.

Question is: would it be better to run VSync (which I understand creates a bottleneck in the GPU, and other latency problems) or the in-game FPS limiter?

If the In-game limiter: do I lock it at 60, or something different?
 

jobert

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A frame limiter doesn't stop tearing from happening. Of course you might get some oblivious person that thinks tearing only happens when you exceed your refresh rate which I never understood that asinine myth because it's completely untrue. In fact the higher the frame rate, the less noticeable the tearing is even though there's more of them happening because they're happening at a much faster rate. Tearing at low frame rates can be extremely bothersome because it's almost like a slow wave going across the screen. Anyway I don't know why you're making this so difficult just turn on vsync and be done if tearing is bothering you.
 

DarkSideA8

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I don't know why you're making this so difficult
Sometimes we just can't help ourselves!

Grin

It's a weird thing - I'm way exceeding the refresh in some games, like WOT, RDR2 HZD etc. and no tearing, but in Tarkov I get it.

Main reason I'm asking about the in-game limiter
 

DarkSideA8

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Hmmm... May not work for my situation: apparently does not work unless game is fullscreen, and with Tarkov I have to play Windowed Borderless b/c long load times = Alt+Tab and do something else while waiting.
 

Krenum

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And that will not stop screen tearing..
Yeah, the problem with screen tearing is the fps are going beyond the 60Hz rating of the monitor. Limit the frames to just under the monitor's refresh rate & it will stop the tearing.
 

jmilcher

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And that will not stop screen tearing..
Yes it will. If he knows he can always exceed his setting, and his setting is the limit of the monitor, screen tearing cannot occur unless the frame rate drops below that setting. It’s a very simple concept and people have been doing it for ages.
 

Armenius

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Yeah, the problem with screen tearing is the fps are going beyond the 60Hz rating of the monitor. Limit the frames to just under the monitor's refresh rate & it will stop the tearing.
For V-Sync you typically cap slightly above the framerate, not below. 62 FPS for 60 Hz is usually the target. Still, running a frame cap without any type of frame syncing is going to cause tearing regardless. You need a type of sync so frames are only displayed when the scanout of each frame is completed by the monitor.
Yes it will. If he knows he can always exceed his setting, and his setting is the limit of the monitor, screen tearing cannot occur unless the frame rate drops below that setting. It’s a very simple concept and people have been doing it for ages.
No, it won't. You have to understand what scanout is.
 

jobert

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Yes it will. If he knows he can always exceed his setting, and his setting is the limit of the monitor, screen tearing cannot occur unless the frame rate drops below that setting. It’s a very simple concept and people have been doing it for ages.
Nonsense. There will still be screen tearing and anyone that is not blind can see it. I have heard all the BS over the years when it comes to screen tearing and its amazing how some people still say such ridiculous things.
 

jmilcher

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Nonsense. There will still be screen tearing and anyone that is not blind can see it. I have heard all the BS over the years when it comes to screen tearing and its amazing how some people still say such ridiculous things.
Most of us believe our eyes. That was my experience for many years and it worked just fine until I got into high refresh rate gsync displays. You may have a minority opinion based on your experience. But the overwhelming majority of people have done this for ages and been happy with it. There will always be an outlier and you may be just that.

I suggest OP try the frame limiter and get back with us. He can chime in on if that solved his problem. A 3070 at 1080p should handle 60 FPS.
 

jobert

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Most of us believe our eyes. That was my experience for many years and it worked just fine until I got into high refresh rate gsync displays. You may have a minority opinion based on your experience. But the overwhelming majority of people have done this for ages and been happy with it. There will always be an outlier and you may be just that.

I suggest OP try the frame limiter and get back with us. He can chime in on if that solved his problem. A 3070 at 1080p should handle 60 FPS.
The overwhelming majority of people also said for years and years that screen tearing only happened when exceeding refresh rate which was BS. You and some others can claim whatever you want but I know damn well that capping at 59.7 does NOT stop screen tearing and is one of the dumbest claims out there on this topic. Again all the hell I have to do is look at the screen and see the tearing is there just like before. The only way to have no tearing is with some kind of sync being enabled.
 

Krenum

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For V-Sync you typically cap slightly above the framerate, not below. 62 FPS for 60 Hz is usually the target. Still, running a frame cap without any type of frame syncing is going to cause tearing regardless. You need a type of sync so frames are only displayed when the scanout of each frame is completed by the monitor.

No, it won't. You have to understand what scanout is.
Edit. Yes, I believe I got that backwards.

You know what? I think you're right. Its been so long since I had a 60hz monitor. 62fps sounds right, although, if you dip below, you'll get tearing again, this was the frustrating part. Cap at 62 and have no tearing and deal with input lag or uncap and have screen tearing with no input lag.
 
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jobert

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Nah, it's not. Did it for years before getting a monitor with VS technology.
You and jmilcher are just flat out oblivious. Armenius is right as setting fps cap by itself does not stop tearing and never has to anyone that is not blind.

Here you both go. I just set 59.7 in afterburner and fired up RE2 and gee what do you know there is tearing just like I said there would be. I cant even imagine what goes through the mind of people like you to actually claim that setting an FPS cap of 59.7 magically stops tearing. If that was actually true then every article or topic would simply say this and case closed. The reality is that what you are claiming is 100% BS.

 

Krenum

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You and jmilcher are just flat out oblivious. Armenius is right as setting fps cap by itself does not stop tearing and never has to anyone that is not blind.

Here you both go. I just set 59.7 in afterburner and fired up RE2 and gee what do you know there is tearing just like I said there would be. I cant even imagine what goes through the mind of people like you to actually claim that setting an FPS cap of 59.7 magically stops tearing. If that was actually true then every article or topic would simply say this and case closed. The reality is that what you are claiming is 100% BS.

I edited my post. Armenius is right. I had it backwards.

Try capping your frames at 62fps with Vsync on.


Not to be a pill, but what are you doing with a 3070 on a 60hz panel (for gaming) anyways? That's like wearing sweatpants with cowboy boots. Heck man, you can get a HP Freesync monitor at 75hz at Best Buy for $100 bucks. Have that tie you over till you get your fancy monitor. Just check G-Sync Compatibility mode and youre gtg.
 
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jobert

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I edited my post. Armenius is right. I had it backwards.

Try capping your frames at 62fps with Vsync on.


Not to be a pill, but what are you doing with a 3070 on a 60hz panel anyways? That's like wearing sweatpants with cowboy boots.
That is the OP you are referring to and he said the 1080p 60hz screen was temporary and have nothing to do with that.
 

Krenum

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Not sure why you are asking me. I was just responding the nonsense claim that capping fps at 59.7 stops screen tearing.
Well, you tested the aforementioned I figured you'd want to test the other way too. Just to give OP the correct results. After all were here to help OP, right? Or are you just down with OPP?
 

jobert

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Well, you tested the aforementioned I figured you'd want to test the other way too. Just to give OP the correct results. After all were here to help OP, right? Or are you just down with OPP?
If simply using regular vsync then that stops tearing so no real need for the 62 fps cap.
 

noko

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For Nvidia and non VRR monitor, I've always found Adaptive Sync pretty good. No screen tearing and for me no noticeable lag which with plain Vertical Sync I can't stand. Turn on Adaptive Sync in the Control panel off in game unless the game has an option for adaptive sync. Some games it works with Control panel on and vertical sync on in game. I knew it was working when fps was at 60 and no lagged if frame rate dropped below 60.

If you can keep your fps above 120fps+ constantly, use Fast Sync for reduce lag, if not I recommend Adaptive sync.
 

jobert

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For Nvidia and non VRR monitor, I've always found Adaptive Sync pretty good. No screen tearing and for me no noticeable lag which with plain Vertical Sync I can't stand. Turn on Adaptive Sync in the Control panel off in game unless the game has an option for adaptive sync. Some games it works with Control panel on and vertical sync on in game. I knew it was working when fps was at 60 and no lagged if frame rate dropped below 60.

If you can keep your fps above 120fps+ constantly, use Fast Sync for reduce lag, if not I recommend Adaptive sync.
The whole point of adaptive sync was for games where you cant always maintain your refresh rate and you would rather have tearing when dropping below it than have stutter. If you are not dropping below your refresh then it is no different than regular vsync.
 

noko

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The whole point of adaptive sync was for games where you cant always maintain your refresh rate and you would rather have tearing when dropping below it than have stutter. If you are not dropping below your refresh then it is no different than regular vsync.
Yes and no, the period of time less than 60fps, only briefly, like during heavy fire fights etc. lag was a killer, a second here and there made the game feel sluggish so to speak. Anyways best to just try it out and if it works better than not, it is an option.
 

jobert

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Yes and no, the period of time less than 60fps, only briefly, like during heavy fire fights etc. lag was a killer, a second here and there made the game feel sluggish so to speak. Anyways best to just try it out and if it works better than not, it is an option.
I have used it off and on for years and some games that have the occasional dip such as many Unreal engine games do much better. When using adaptive sync it is certainly recommended to use an fps cap just above refresh rate too as occasionally some games get tripped up and might end up tearing the entire time.
 

DarkSideA8

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Hey all - thanks for the responses and lively discussion. Been AFK with kids sports, so I have not yet been able to try anything suggested here. I did play with the in game limiter a bit - and 60 Hz there looks bad with stuttering but 120 is 'ok'. I don't understand why that would be so - but again not much time for anything other than an offline raid to see if setting lower or higher did anything.

When I get a chance I'll try something like what Armenius et.al. suggest and get back to you.





... Still daily refreshing multiple sites hoping to see that the monitor I want is coming out - but for months now they're just hype and vaporware. (OK maybe not vaporware - but you get the point) :(
 

VirtualMirage

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While some on here to say to cap framerate to 62fps on a 60hz non-vrr monitor (roughly 2fps above the max refresh rate), the funny thing is if you are running a G-sync monitor, like me, it is recommended to cap the framerate 2 fps below max refresh to prevent any stutter from occurring (and minimize input lag) when framerate is bouncing off the Hz limit of the monitor.

For some games it's a non-issue and isn't noticeable. But games like RDR2, it was quite a noticeable and the solution I mentioned above made the gaming experience much smoother.
 

defaultluser

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Try NVIDIA's Fast Sync.

it's forced triple-buffering IN ALL GAMES , without all the input lag. Give it a try (turn on it on universally in drivers, then turn vsync off in your game)

You may be surprised by how low the input lag is (higher than sync off, but not much worse)
 

VirtualMirage

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Try NVIDIA's Fast Sync.

it's forced triple-buffering IN ALL GAMES , without all the input lag. Give it a try (turn on it on universally in drivers, then turn vsync off in your game)

You may be surprised by how low the input lag is (higher than sync off, but not much worse)
I thought that was only beneficial if your max framerates were a good number of times over your max refresh rate, otherwise it shows no benefit over the typical g-sync/v-sync/frame limiter method. This is where I read up on it before and why I chose not to use it:

https://blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101-input-lag-tests-and-settings/8/

Unless improvements have been made since that post, they don't recommend doing that unless you are able to maintain a framerate that is at least 3-5 times your max refresh rate. Otherwise, latency can be worse and microstuttering can occur. The method I am using is the one that as recommended by BlurBusters.
 

defaultluser

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I thought that was only beneficial if your max framerates were a good number of times over your max refresh rate, otherwise it shows no benefit over the typical g-sync/v-sync/frame limiter method. This is where I read up on it before and why I chose not to use it:

https://blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync101-input-lag-tests-and-settings/8/

Unless improvements have been made since that post, they don't recommend doing that unless you are able to maintain a framerate that is at least 3-5 times your max refresh rate. Otherwise, latency can be worse and microstuttering can occur. The method I am using is the one that as recommended by BlurBusters.

You know, there's staring at meaningless numbers, and then there's actually trying the thing ; if you can't tell the difference, then who cares what some site says about raw numbers?

Also, since all major sites tabled the idea five years back, is there any possibility that newer drivers have improved latency? It's amazing how lazy you folks are! You see one set of numbers, and dismiss it permanently :rolleyes:

I tested this vs vsync off, and couldn't tell any latency difference in fps games (and I cam notice steam link latency over gigabit).
 
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VirtualMirage

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You know, there's staring at meaningless numbers, and then there's actually trying the thing ; if you can't tell the difference, then who cares what some site says about raw numbers?

Also, since all major sites tabled the idea five years back, is there any possibility that newer drivers have improved latency? It's amazing how lazy you folks are! You see one set of numbers, and dismiss it permanently :rolleyes:

I tested this vs vsync off, and couldn't tell any latency difference in fps games (and I cam notice steam link latency over gigabit).
Are you hearing yourself here?

The method I am using has been working great for me, so why would I change it? Especially after I did try all sorts of different methods to find what works best. I didn't just read an article and go purely on what they said, but my results and perception certainly fall in line with what they tested. That's not laziness, that's having already done the work and sticking to what works best for me. Now, when it comes time to upgrade my 27" 4K 60Hz G-Sync monitor, which may be sometime this year, to something with a higher refresh rate, I will go back to the drawing board and test what works best for that setup.

Out of all the methods I have tried, the one I am currently using provides the most consistent results across a wide range of games. Other methods worked better for some, but not on others. Also, I like to cap my framerate to go no higher than my refresh for a couple of other reasons not mentioned:
  1. No sense in having the video card work harder to provide more frames than can be displayed (so lower temps and power consumption)
  2. To reduce the coil whine that my RTX 3090 FE likes to make when the framerates are high.
I was chasing this stuff down last fall when I upgraded my system and was trying to find a way to minimize the coil whine and the stuttering I would experience with RDR2. So it was fairly recent.

Blur Busters knows their stuff, they actually frequent this forum too (but mostly the monitors section). You should check out more of what they have posted.
 

WilyKit

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Yeah, the problem with screen tearing is the fps are going beyond the 60Hz rating of the monitor. Limit the frames to just under the monitor's refresh rate & it will stop the tearing.
That’s not why tearing happens. Tearing happens because the GPU is not drawing the frame at the same time the screen is refreshing itself.
 

WilyKit

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Most of us believe our eyes. That was my experience for many years and it worked just fine until I got into high refresh rate gsync displays. You may have a minority opinion based on your experience. But the overwhelming majority of people have done this for ages and been happy with it. There will always be an outlier and you may be just that.

I suggest OP try the frame limiter and get back with us. He can chime in on if that solved his problem. A 3070 at 1080p should handle 60 FPS.

When and why screen tearing occurs isn’t a matter of opinion.
 
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