Forum Order

[lorcani]

There's been so much arguing about the order of the forums, so I think it's best to settle it once and for all. Let's just have a vote, and then see what the administrators think, and end this. Post your opinions here as well as voting.

I previously wanted General Hardware at the top, but I decided that it makes it hard for the moderators, who have to move threads to other forums.

The "Video Card" forum, which is now at the top, moves so fast it's hard to keep up. Also, as put in another thread, flame wars balloon out of hand faster than anyone could possibly keep up (which makes it hard for fugu and w1zzard, the resident moderators there).

IMHO, I think Case Modding should be at the top, for 2 reasons: 1) There's less ability to spark a nasty flame-war; 2) It's the most interesting to read about (most show pictures, and some of the mods I've seen make me just gape in utter amazement), versus people droning on and on about 10fps increases.

Make sure you think hard about your choice here. It's a known fact that the forum at the top of the list gets the most activity. Let's find out which forum is most deserving of that activity. If you agree with the current order, vote for Video Cards. If you agree with the order before the forum purge, vote for General Hardware (remembering the points I brought up above).

If anyone wants any other poll options, say them here (though, I don't think I can edit the poll).

Again, this really boils down to, what exactly is the [H] about? Overclocking? Video Cards? Case Modding? I can't really say.

Thank you for your time.

 

[xphantg0d]

What about alphabetical?

 

[lorcani]

What about alphabetical?

(I edited my prior response out to avoid starting a flame-war.)

Alphabetical, while totally unbiased, is a poor way to do it. We need to put our best foot forward, and put the forum that is the most [H] first. This poll is the best way to try and find it.

 

[ComputerBox34]

Video Cards and General Hardware are 2 of the most popular forums. But I think General Hardware might be more usefull to the average Joe. So I voted General Hardware.

 

[lorcani]

Video Cards and General Hardware are 2 of the most popular forums. But I think General Hardware might be more usefull to the average Joe. So I voted General Hardware.

The problem with General Hardware is that it's way too broad, so if it was at the top of the list the moderators would have to move it to other forums more often.

 

[lomn75]

You forgot "Kyle's choice" as a poll option.

Just a hunch, but I'm gonna go with that as a write-in.

Anyway, I think it's fine that all of Vid Cards, Mobos, Mods, and OC (your big "[H]" forums) are immediately onscreen at 10x7 res, and it's good that anything "general" is likewise not.

The problem with "general" at the top is that it sucks in lots of threads that don't belong, requiring a good bit more moderator oversight.

 

[lorcani]

You forgot "Kyle's choice" as a poll option.

That's implied. I just wanted to see what people's opinions were on this subject, so that the moderators could use this thread to influence their decisions.

 

[ComputerBox34]

The problem with General Hardware is that it's way too broad, so if it was at the top of the list the moderators would have to move it to other forums more often.

True.....

But think of the name of the organizer line that organizes the threads. (Hardware is the name in this case) Wouldn't it make more sense to put the "General Hardware" at the top. I would think that someone who is a first-time visitor to this forum would surely scroll down to see what other topics there are. Maybe the mods should just rename General Hardware to make it sound not as broad. I dunno really at this point....

 

[xphantg0d]

Is it me or does lorcani seem a little biased to the modding forum. He doesnt want it alphabetical he doesnt want video cards he doesnt want general hardware. And i dont think many people will vote for overclocking though it is one of the largest forums. So basically it sounds like lorcani is asking to have modding first. In my personal opinion it is up to kyle and the mods and admins they know more about how forums work than most of us, esp. considering they run one.

 

[lorcani]

Is it me or does lorcani seem a little biased to the modding forum. He doesnt want it alphabetical he doesnt want video cards he doesnt want general hardware. And i dont think many people will vote for overclocking though it is one of the largest forums. So basically it sounds like lorcani is asking to have modding first. In my personal opinion it is up to kyle and the mods and admins they know more about how forums work than most of us, esp. considering they run one.

I have never posted a single thread in Case Modding. I have had numerous threads ignored in General Hardware [Ignored is harsh, mainly just lack of interest] (I dissuade people from voting for General Hardware because it is too broad). I post a reply to something in the Video Card forum, and seconds later I get a reply. We need to get the people posting in the Video Card forum to post in other forums as well.

Yes, it's up to Kyle and the mods. I respect their opinions, but I just wanted to help them make an informed decision. I don't feel the Video Card forum belongs at the top, and I think fugu and w1zzard probably agree. They are the one's who have to watch a 100 threads a day turn into flamewars.

This thread is based on something diredesire said here that I thought made a lot of sense.

 

[Ludic]

I'm used to the Video Cards being on top, and I think that's what a lot of people who come here for answers are usually searching for.

 

[diredesire]

Pretty impressive that we can get a poll going. Hopefully this can remain a civil conversation and remain active (i.e. not locked). When i think of [H] i think of a few things, namely innovation (and originality) and PUSHING THE LIMITS.

I think the two best folders for the top of the page should be (this is again, just my opinion) case modding and/or Overclocking and cooling. I mentioned that i'd like case modding at the top, and i wouldn't mind it, but after thinking about things, i'd probably like OC&C at the top. Case modding has it's place, but i can't say the entire forum is wrapped up in the world of case modding. I'd like it at the top because things are really 'quieting down' as far as innovation, originality, and of course [H]ardcore-ness. If that forum is brought back up to the top, resulting in more hits to that folder, i imagine that we will have a sudden (perhaps not SO sudden, but reasonably so) surge in new ideas, if not implementations that we haven't seen before. I for one love new ideas and i love seeing them in action even more.

OC&C is another candidate, because as of late (my HONEST opinion), there hasn't been much limit-pushing here. A lot of people have left the hardforum for more specialized forums (such as procooling or xtremesystems). We could use some reminders of why we are the [H], IMO and talking about video cards (rather, arguing about them) isn't getting us there. I know it's kind of a moot point considering the chances of actually getting the forum order changed are slim, but i thought i'd add my 2 cents.

-DD

 

[lorcani]

OC&C is another candidate, because as of late (my HONEST opinion), there hasn't been much limit-pushing here. A lot of people have left the hardforum for more specialized forums (such as procooling or xtremesystems). We could use some reminders of why we are the [H], IMO and talking about video cards (rather, arguing about them) isn't getting us there. I know it's kind of a moot point considering the chances of actually getting the forum order changed are slim, but i thought i'd add my 2 cents.

Limit-pushing is what got us to this stage, and limit-pushing is what's going to keep this place interesting.

 

[rogue_jedi]

OC&C... it's what the [H] was built on, and we need more interest in it (especially since a lot of people left for other forums... there aren't that many extreme overclockers left at the [H] even though many started here) there also isn't much room for flame wars in overclocking and cooling... as long as intel/amd specific (not OC&C related) material is kept to their respective subforums.

the next on the list should be general hardware... it is a useful forum for n00bs. you know. video cards should be somewhere near the bottom of the page. it might help keep it more civil though i doubt that. i think people there like flame wars. case modding should be about where it is, as most questions there get answered in a timely fashion.

this is just a bunch of imho, so take it for what its worth

 

[lorcani]

Yes. You notice my poll doesn't include processors, because those are best left in two separate forums.

I'm glad to see this poll is getting a lot of intelligent responses. Keep them coming, guys.

 

[lorcani]

I just wanted to bump this up, so we keep getting a nice response going. So far all the indicators are pointing to having General Hardware at the top. Notice that only one person voted for Video Cards, the way it is now.

There's still plenty of time left to vote.

 

[lomn75]

I just wanted to bump this up, so we keep getting a nice response going. So far all the indicators are pointing to having General Hardware at the top.

1) You don't need to bump a thread 5 posts down
2) You apparently didn't get the hint the first time.

I'm not going out of my way to be an ass here, but face it -- Kyle and mods agree that the best place for General Hardware is not at the top, and that it's not even on the initial viewable area for standard resolution (which is really what matters on the web). All your other choices are immediately viewable, so there's no controversy there. Beating a dead horse isn't going to do you any good.

 

[ComputerBox34]

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=765964&highlight=general+hardware

This makes more sense. I say we leave it as it is. I'm sure the admins and mods have already put hard thought into the forum ordering and they have more expierence in moderating then anyone here. I don't think you can convice them to change the ordering because it just makes their jobs much harder. I'm sure they're ignoring this whole thread right now because none of them has posted a response. This is becoming futile.

 

[lorcani]

You apparently didn't get the hint the first time.

I'm not going out of my way to be an ass here, but face it -- Kyle and mods agree that the best place for General Hardware is not at the top, and that it's not even on the initial viewable area for standard resolution (which is really what matters on the web). All your other choices are immediately viewable, so there's no controversy there. Beating a dead horse isn't going to do you any good.

I know that G[H] doesn't belong at the top. I've realized that, and posted it in this thread. However, Video Cards is a hot spot for flamewars. The two options are such: divide the forum into just ATi and Nvidia (it worked for AMD/Intel), or make the Video Card forum less popular. The second option is the one that is being attempted in this thread.

That thread mentions a trouble-shooting forum. I got opinions on that, the general consensus was "no."

Besides, who has a good reason for Video Cards being at the top, and OC&C being near the middle? It shows a completely different set of priorities than what I thought the [H] had.

 

[Talon]

I didn't vote for it (stayed with video cards), but OC & Cooling would probably be the best [H]ard|OCP themed forum, and I do think Lorcani has a point about the flaming.

 

[diredesire]

I didn't vote for it (stayed with video cards), but OC & Cooling would probably be the best [H]ard|OCP themed forum, and I do think Lorcani has a point about the flaming.

Quoted for TRUTH. Before the reorganization of the [H] i used to frequent the VC forum for news and other info i 'need to know' about Video cards and what new technologies brought to the table (and what these new technologies WERE/did). Now there are pages upon pages of sarcastic "look at what this nVidiot is saying" or "great another fanATIc" BLAHBLAH. It's not even worth sifting through anymore...

 

[lorcani]

Quoted for TRUTH. Before the reorganization of the [H] i used to frequent the VC forum for news and other info i 'need to know' about Video cards and what new technologies brought to the table (and what these new technologies WERE/did). Now there are pages upon pages of sarcastic "look at what this nVidiot is saying" or "great another fanATIc" BLAHBLAH. It's not even worth sifting through anymore...

I'd be really interested to see fugu and w1zzard's opinion on this. This change would benefit them the most.

 

[Lethal]

While it's interesting to hear people's opinions on this, I really don't see that the order is going to be changed anytime soon. It's only been two months since the forums were entirely re-vamped.

What some of you don't realize is that the Video Cards forum has always been a hot spot, even before it was at the top. For some reason, a lot of people are very passionate about their vid cards. There are new high-end cards coming out and there's much discussion about upgrading for Doom3/HL2.

Since the re-vamp, Steve and Kyle have been pimping the forums a lot from the main OCP page. They frequently link directly to Vid Card threads, which is where a lot of the traffic there is coming from, not because of the fact that it's at the top. And the top two featured OCP articles concern vid cards.

As far as a troubleshooting forum, I mentioned elsewhere that people generally have an idea where the problem is, such as issues with a monitor (Displays), Windows XP (Operating Systems), virus (General Software), etc. But if your comp won't boot and you don't know what the source of the problem is, then Gen Hard would be the best place to start. A lot of niche experts tend to hang in certain forums and I think you'll get faster, more knowledgeable help there than in a general troubleshooting forum.

 

[lorcani]

The question that sticks out in my mind is this: why is namecalling and flame wars such a huge problem in the Video Card forum, and not in the processor forums? My thinking is because, there isn't one processor forum, it's divided up into AMD and Intel. Why wasn't that done with ATi and Nvidia? I realize that they have sub-forums, but the bulk of the threads are posted in the actual main Video Card forum, which is where the fights start.

 

[Carnival Forces]

The question that sticks out in my mind is this: why is namecalling and flame wars such a huge problem in the Video Card forum, and not in the processor forums? My thinking is because, there isn't one processor forum, it's divided up into AMD and Intel. Why wasn't that done with ATi and Nvidia? I realize that they have sub-forums, but the bulk of the threads are posted in the actual main Video Card forum, which is where the fights start.

quoted for truth. Word++ I think this is a really good idea; there should be a separate, fully fledged nVidia forum, ATi forum, and then a Video Card Forum (which would function to hold comparison charts, best bang for buck, news about Vid. Card's // PCI Express, benchmarks that compare both nVidia and ATi).

that way, fanboys/girls won't have so much to crap on.

 

[lorcani]

quoted for truth. Word++ I think this is a really good idea; there should be a separate, fully fledged nVidia forum, ATi forum, and then a Video Card Forum (which would function to hold comparison charts, best bang for buck, news about Vid. Card's // PCI Express, benchmarks that compare both nVidia and ATi).

The problem is that is the way it is set up now: a sub-forum serves to divide nVidia from ATi. I don't know if we could still have a bi-partisan forum. Instead, ATi and nVidia supporters could bring their own research to the table, without each side coming into contact with each other.

 

[Carnival Forces]

The problem is that is the way it is set up now: a sub-forum serves to divide nVidia from ATi. I don't know if we could still have a bi-partisan forum. Instead, ATi and nVidia supporters could bring their own research to the table, without each side coming into contact with each other.

sub-forums tend to (to me) seem more hidden, and sort of swept under the rug. I guess you do have the best idea though, separating nVidia and ATi Fanboys/girls into nVidia's OWN FORUM and ATi's OWN FORUM (like with the Strictly AMD and Strictly Intel forums) might just be the best bet. Lethal, any thoughts ?

 

[Carnival Forces]

While it's interesting to hear people's opinions on this, I really don't see that the order is going to be changed anytime soon. It's only been two months since the forums were entirely re-vamped.

What some of you don't realize is that the Video Cards forum has always been a hot spot, even before it was at the top. For some reason, a lot of people are very passionate about their vid cards. There are new high-end cards coming out and there's much discussion about upgrading for Doom3/HL2.

Since the re-vamp, Steve and Kyle have been pimping the forums a lot from the main OCP page. They frequently link directly to Vid Card threads, which is where a lot of the traffic there is coming from, not because of the fact that it's at the top. And the top two featured OCP articles concern vid cards.

Change is good

Even if the Vid. Card forum has always been "a hot spot" that doesn't justify it, being one component, having 3x or more traffic than any other forum. Yes, new technologies are coming out, well, so is new DDR stuff ; but you don't see the Memory forum becoming the [H]ardest place to [H]ang... As for linking directly from the front page, so what. That doesn't account for the sheer volume of threads that seem to populate like rabbits in the Vid. Card Forum

I thought the exact same thing. I know the order was thought out, but it seems to me like the Video Cards forum has just turned into flame fests w/ fanboys from both camps pitted against each other, with a witty remark or two thrown in the thread. Those damn things balloon so fast i don't even have the patience to read them anymore..

It's out of control, overpopulated, and burning. In flames. We need something like OC&C, the [H]eart of [H]ard|OCP or General [H]ardware, the newbies' haven, at the top.

and as to the "the top 2 [H]ard|OCP articles are Video Card related, well, more people on the [H] get new/decide to OC old Comp's than new Video Card articles are released, so something like Gen[H] or OC&C should be getting more traffic, regardless.

additionally, i, for one, almost never check the [H] front page articles; they get released at about a pII speed compared to places like www.hexus.net or www.anandtech.com It's sad really, all I read on the front page is usually the "news" stuff..

EDIT: why is the poll closed? don't want to hear what the populous thinks?

 

[lorcani]

EDIT: why is the poll closed? don't want to hear what the populous thinks?

Heh, my doing. You are late, sir.

The poll was set to close this morning, IIRC.

 

[Carnival Forces]

Heh, my doing. You are late, sir.

The poll was set to close this morning, IIRC.

mah bad

 

[Carnival Forces]

furthermore, the sub-forums of the Vid. Card thing obviously aren't working. The first 3-5 threads or so (minus the one i just started) are all about 6800's or GeForce cards...seems like the Video Card forum should be generating quite a lot of work for Mods to move threads repeatedly...

there really should just be a separate nVidia and ATi forum and that's it, like the AMD/Intel ones...

as for the order, have you guys thought of just the forum w/ the most recent post gets top position? like the forum order, is like a thread...except posting in a forum, moves that forum to the top of the order

what do you think?

 

[lorcani]

there really should just be a separate nVidia and ATi forum and that's it, like the AMD/Intel ones...

as for the order, have you guys thought of just the forum w/ the most recent post gets top position? like the forum order, is like a thread...except posting in a forum, moves that forum to the top of the order

For nixing the subforums and making separate ATi and nVidia forums, I agree totally. However, your idea about having the forums jump around is confusing and un-necessary.

 

[Carnival Forces]

For nixing the subforums and making separate ATi and nVidia forums, I agree totally. However, your idea about having the forums jump around is confusing and un-necessary.

oh okay, i was just trying any way to get Vid. Card out of the top spot...

and it seems w/ the jump around way, the forum w/ the most naturaly traffic would naturally rise to the top?

 

[lorcani]

and it seems w/ the jump around way, the forum w/ the most naturaly traffic would naturally rise to the top?

But all the other ones would jump around randomly. It would be confusing.