Fortron 530W Help!

A

Alex41290

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Feb 20, 2004
Messages
1,570
ok...well, my rails are running low according to windows, but i will check in a little bit with a voltage meter...low in windows meaning like 11.6v on the 12v line doing NOTHING....anyway, my PSU is the Fortron 530w, and i was hoping some ppl could enlighten me as to how to change the voltage with the pot adjusters....i'll post again a little later with some REAL voltage updates.

Thanks!

alex
 
sry...wasn't thinking straight :rolleyes:

anyway...i'm gonna ask my mom to pick up a multimeter from like, say, walmart tonight and see what i can do...but, right now, sitting here F@H, SpeedFan says its 11.61v (note, not with a multimeter, YET)

i thought the one i have was working, but its, in fact, broken (blown fuse)

okay, here's the takaman's thing:

3.3V: 3A or above
5V: 17A or above
12V: 15.3A or above
3.3V and 5V combined: 95.4W or above
3.3v, 5v, and 12v combined: 280.1W

Total output: 290.1W

to answer ur other questions, i am watercooled, so its not exhausting the CPU HS air...and for my temps, i am getting really varied results...somewhere between 40-50*C, i think for CPU...which doesn't make sense, cuz its at stock...and my air cooling was better than this...anyway...ambient, i'm not EXACTLY sure, but i think 25*C ...i think something is VERY wrong with the sensor, cuz it just skipped to -128*C for the CPU socket temp :confused:...now its back to 41...

if you need any other info, just ask and i'll post it (i'll post the multimeter ratings later)

so, my question is: do i turn the pots until i see a change to what i want it to be? elaborate on this, if you can (like a step-by-step guide, cuz i couldn't find one, just general info)

EDIT: Wow...just....wow...i never thought about checking the BIOS (duh...:rolleyes:...) so, of course, checking the BIOS, it reads:

12v: 12.22V
5v: 4.99V
3.3v: 3.31V

now, the only problem is, why isn't my overclock working? i get random reboots with an overclock to 2.2GHz....i guess i will try again! off i go! so, if you could help explain this and why my CPU temps (even in BIOS, but i know, don't trust BIOS) are so high?!?! they were 39*C sitting in the BIOS! seems high even if it is off by a little bit...thanks!
 
well the theoretical maximum draw on the +12V is 15.3A
and the supply is rated at 16A which is actually a conservative figure
but then the ambient temperature factors in

http://www.silentpcreview.com/article28-page2.html

A typical PSU operating temp statement is somthing like this:

0ºC ~25ºC for full rating of load, decrease to zero Watts O/P at 70ºC

Examine what that says. Full power (let's say 400W) is available when the unit is at 0ºC ~25ºC. Hmmm. Think about this.

Have you ever felt air blown out of a PSU in a PC running absolutely full tilt (which it would have to do to get anywhere near 400W output) that felt cool to the fingers? 25ºC airflow would feel exactly that: Cool, given that normal body temperature is 37 °C.

So this PSU cannot deliver full rated power when its temperature goes over 25ºC. OK, what happens to the max power output capacity above that temp? It decreases gradually so that by the time the PSU temp reaches 70ºC, the PSU cannot deliver any power at all. So if you assume that this power drop as temp rises is linear, then max power capacity will drop by ~9W for every degree over 25ºC.

Now having examined as many PSUs as I have over the last 2~3 years, I have to say there's not a single PSU in ANY PC I have ever used or examined that would not measure at least 30~35ºC almost anywhere inside the PSU under almost any kind of load. And if/when it is pushed, 45ºC is nothing at all, especially for or near hot running components like voltage regulators.

So let's say 40ºC is a fairly typical temp inside a PSU. This 400W rated unit would actually be able to deliver a max of just 220W at that temp. Hmmm. Interesting, isn't it? At 50ºC, the available power would drop to just 130W. No wonder some PSUs have 3 fans each capable of 50 cfm!!

Here's a simple fact: Really high quality PSUs are actually rated for full power output at as high as 40ºC. The trick is get a hold of the spec sheets that tell such information so you can compare apples to apples. Or ask.
Click to expand...

and, you should be very close to the ambient room temperature for your CPU temp if your water cooling, if you arent you really need to investigate first that the waterblock is properly mounted and then twaek your system, likely improving the flowrate (and that doesnt necessarilly mean a bigger pump, but thats a whole other topic)

Id reduce the load on the PSU and see if that effects the voltage
and verify the value with a DMM, and seriously look at your temps
got a pic of the case and watercooling setup?
Im pretty good at spotting problems, my home forum for the 1st two years here was OC&Cooling
 
IMG_1233.JPG


there she is...i know the wiring is messy...but i can't help it...the air blowing out of the PSU is cold :confused:...i also have 2 fans exhausting right below it....so, hmm....i'm thinking by christmas i might just have watercooling on my 9800 Pro...but oh well...comment all you like (at least say <i>something</i> else about the PSU so its not totally off-topic (even though it kind of is))

thanks!

alex
 
well for starters youd be alot better off exhausting the radiator directly out of the case,
which I assume isnt the case unless its blowing out the bottom front and your using the 2 fans in the back as intake

the tubing however looks pretty good without alot of restrictions except that HDD cooler and is that a white water block?
which Eheim is that?

might give pHaesteus' Maximizing Flowrate a once over and this article reagrding pumpheat by RhoXS
(who happens to play with this professionally cooling nuclear reactors :p
There is an elementary equation from basic thermodynamics that states that the rate of heat transfer (Q) equals the mass flow rate (M) times a Constant (the specific heat of water) times the Delta T (fluid temp out minus fluid temp in):

Q = M x C x Delta T

In other words, the rate of heat transfer is directly proportional to mass flow rate. If you increase the flow rate, you will then increase the rate of heat transfer. Since you cannot mess with mother nature, it is very naive to think it works any other way.

Assume the CPU inserts a constant rate of energy (Q) into the cooling system. Then, from the relationship above, increasing the mass flow rate must result in a smaller delta T because Q remains constant. This smaller Delta T (fluid out - fluid in) also means that the average fluid temperature in the water block is somewhat lower even though the rate of heat transfer has not changed.

Now let's look at the heat transfer from the CPU to the water:

The rate of heat transfer between two points is proportional to the temperature difference between those points.

In our case, this Delta T (not to be confused with the one above) is the temperature of the CPU minus the average water temperature in the water block. Lowering the average water temperature, as we did above by increasing the flow rate, means we have a little better heat transfer from the CPU to the now somewhat cooler water. The result is that the CPU runs a little cooler.

This all says that if you increase the flow rate and everything else remains constant, you will decrease the CPU temperature. However, everything else will not remain constant if you increase the flow rate by using a larger pump.

The pump uses some amount of electrical energy. This energy must end up somewhere. A relatively small amount of it is dissipated as heat from the motor. The overwhelming majority of it is converted from electrical energy to mechanical energy in the form of a rotating shaft that does real work on the water.

This energy ends up in the water by increasing its temperature. It is called "pump heat" and can be very significant.

An Eheim 1048 is rated at 10 watts, almost all of which ends up in the water. I understand a very overclocked CPU is good for upwards of 75 watts. As you can see, a smaller pump like the 1048 contributes about 13% to the total heat load on a system with an energy hungry CPU. With other more common CPUs running at 25 to 50 watts, this percentage is much higher and is therefore much more significant.

An interesting aside for non-believers: This is also why excessive use of a blender to mix up frozen orange juice results in the juice not being as cold as expected. Also, nuclear power plants use primarily pump heat (from three or four 6,000 HP pumps) to heat up almost 75,000 gallons of water from 200 degrees F to about 550 degrees in about six hours or less.

The point here is that there is a trade off in how big a pump to use to increase the flow rate. More flow is beneficial. It is best to achieve the desired flow with as small a pump as possible and flow paths with minimum flow resistance.

The bigger the pump, the more heat is added to the system. Eheim makes a 50 watt unit that I see talked about every now and then. This guy is probably a bigger heat load on the cooling system than the CPU itself.

Bottom Line

If you increase flow rate with the same pump, your temperatures will trend in the direction of goodness. If you increase flow rate by going to a bigger pump, you will reach a trade off somewhere where the pump starts putting too much energy into the system and temperatures will start increasing.
Click to expand...

there is a link to the original thread but the forum is down for maintenance currently
also note BillA's posts in that thread

another factor in the PSU could be the source power are you employing a UPS?
are you actually seeing instability?, random crashes ect?
 
well, when i try to overclock my CPU, i get much instability, and i'm running from a surge protector from a standard outlet (i know, a UPS would be better, but its also like $150)

i don't have a hdd cooler :confused: (sorry, don't really understand what you meant) and yes it is a white water block...the pump in the Eheim 1250

if i wanted to have my radiator exhaust out the front (my plan), how could i get it to stay stuck against the front? should i drill holes and screw it down?
 
ahh, must be a resevoir, I was describing the HDD cooler as the part of the circuit that is going up to the 5.25 inch drive bay, those 90 degree hose barbs scrub a little flowrate
however a White Water isnt exactly a high flow block so it doesnt really matter that much
(impinge jet designs benefit from greater presssure not flowrate)

Id say the fact the radiator doesnt have a decent cool airflow is really the limiting factor
RE how basically youd attach it with a bracket or screws to the fan, make a duct
or a couple of ducts

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top view

||||||||||||| = Radiator

................... duct

__
|...| fan
|...|
|...|
|...|
|__| or
________
|________|

so a fan on the side feeds a duct cool clean air through a radius 90 degree turn to the radiator with a fan behind it and out the front of the case
(you can trial the side case fan, it might not add that much and you might just forgo it

there would of course be other alternatives, but the idea is to supply as cool of air as possible to the rad, the lowest possible temperature you can get is that of the air running through the rad, preheating it with the components in the case obviously cuts into that

there are 3 basic considerations in any heat transfer
the differential temperature, if the air is twice as ciold, twice the heat can be transfered
the volume of transfer medium, if there is twice the airflow or water to transfer to within the same time periiod twice the heat can be transfered (or close to it)
the size of the transfer interface, youve alreadt got a rad so...
but if it was twice the area...
 
Adding a shroud between the radiator and output fan will reduce noise and increase cooling performance. And, it's easy!
 
etruscan said:
Adding a shroud between the radiator and output fan will reduce noise and increase cooling performance. And, it's easy!
Click to expand...

that exceeded my asci skills :p
but your right, lets see if I can edit that in

OK got a shroud standoff for the second fan

another common exhaust strategy is out the top
you could for instance mount the rad on the ceiling and bring a duct in through one of the bays and out the top
in which case simply rotate the art above 90 degrees counter clockwise
(and ignore the case "space" ---------- lines

you get the best fluid flow (be it water or air) by keeping it short and smooth walled
or at least without any large protrusions like capacitors and RAM sticks disrupting the flow

you stilll need to address cooling the board, I'll Ive done is isolate the rad from the rest of the case
the board and drives still produce considerable heat and also need a sufficeint airflow
 
Your asci skills far exceed mine for a fact.

Looking at that setup I see another possibility. With either some 4” PVC tubing, or even cardboard, one could construct a cross flow air system in that case, as in air coming in from one side, exhausting from the other. That would tend to lower ambient case temps and use outside air for cooling. Looks like only two tubing changes would allow the rad/fan to sit at a true right angle to the case. The normal existing fans should be able to do the rest, case wise.

Just a thought.
 
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