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Fold-server users, hear me!

Discussion in 'Distributed Computing' started by unhappy_mage, Apr 25, 2005.

Should fold-server switch to a single adapter?

  1. Yes, I don't have an extra NIC.

    10 vote(s)
    50.0%
  2. No, the old way is the most logical way.

    10 vote(s)
    50.0%
  1. unhappy_mage

    unhappy_mage [H]ard|DCer of the Month - October 2005

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    Okay, as you all know, I've been working on fold-server since last summer. Since its conception, it has had support for only one network layout - 2 adapters, one on your local network and the other on the "folding" network. However, I've had a few requests for a single-adapter version of fold-server. This is possible, and I can work on it...

    BUT... it would mean abandoning the two-adapter idea entirely, at least for now.

    So, which is it? I'm willing to continue the development along either path, but I'd rather work on something that people will _use_. Existing fold-server users could continue to use it (but at the expense of some reconfiguration), and the stumbling block for new users wouldn't be so high.

    PS: For the technically minded, the reason I have to make this split is because I've hit a point in the deveploment of my web-config script where it'd be difficult to change to having variably named adapters (which is, more or less, what I'd need to fix to allow 1 or 2 adapters). There are several other things I'd need to change, but after I got that done it'd probably be relatively simple.
     
  2. DR_K13

    DR_K13 2[H]4U

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    The only reason I dont use it is because of the 2nd Nic
     
  3. Hito Bahadur

    Hito Bahadur [H]ard|DCer of the Month - December 2006

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    So let me get this straight? You are talking about a 1 nic version that basically talks across your switches etc.?

    How will this affect my current network set-up?

    By the way. Dr_K13, if all that is stopping you is a second NIC, I can probably find one laying about.
     
  4. marty9876

    marty9876 [H]ard|DCer of the Month - February 2006

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    Me personally, ditiching the route required in the router would be best. I know, limits boxen to 253 or so on one fold server but honestly, how many folks are running this many anyways. Yet alone, dedicated boxen.

    Plus some routers (Dlink) flat out won't do a route. I know there are always work arounds, but to make things easier for everyone this is my idea.
     
  5. unhappy_mage

    unhappy_mage [H]ard|DCer of the Month - October 2005

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    [​IMG]
    I hope this explains it better that I did with text.

    BTW, marty, there's a simple workaround which will be in 1.1 whether I switch to 1 adapter or not. It doesn't even slow down the internet much (latencies go up a few ms for things going thru fold-server). Wouldn't affect the folding at all.
    [​IMG]
     
  6. Veeb0rg

    Veeb0rg 2[H]4U

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    while i don't run your fold server. i do run a windows setup that only uses the one nic method.. its fairly easy.. thou i can see why some ppl like the 2 nic version.
     
  7. Irishllama

    Irishllama [H]ard|Gawd

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    :mad: I dont get it. What the hell is a fold server?
     
  8. Hito Bahadur

    Hito Bahadur [H]ard|DCer of the Month - December 2006

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    I prefer proposed. I do not currently use the fold server though so don't rate a vote. It makes more sense though from my network sensibilities.
     
  9. DR_K13

    DR_K13 2[H]4U

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    I Have an extra nic maybe I will try it soon!
     
  10. unhappy_mage

    unhappy_mage [H]ard|DCer of the Month - October 2005

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    It allows you to boot a set of computers over LAN, eliminating the need for hard drives on them. Then they start FAH, and production soars. :D
    [​IMG]
     
  11. HekoAridese

    HekoAridese Limp Gawd

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    So that's how you borg 100+ computers?
     
  12. unhappy_mage

    unhappy_mage [H]ard|DCer of the Month - October 2005

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    Well, if you've got 100+ computers dedicated for folding, yes!

    But if you want to use them for anything else, probably not. The clients don't have much on them at all. If you consider 'vi' productivity software, then you're all set. ;)
    [​IMG]
     
  13. Irishllama

    Irishllama [H]ard|Gawd

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    I want to know more, How do I set this up?
     
  14. mike400hp

    mike400hp n00bie

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    2 network cards all the way!! I could not have setup a farm with a single card. I use Microsoft's Remote Install Service on my LAN that I need to boot computers from PXE. If you have the Fold server using PXE and the Microsoft RIS Server using PXE this could be a bad thing. Is there a solution to this that I'm not aware of? Maybe if you use managed switches with VLANs?
     
  15. GwilyaGwees

    GwilyaGwees Gawd

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    More reading would be required, and it can be found here at the bottom of the page. Hope it helps. If you have any further questions after you have read those FAQ's, feel free to come back and ask us.

    GwilyaGwees
    [​IMG]
     
  16. Bill Clo

    Bill Clo Gawd

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    I think I like the proposed new version better. If I understand it correctly, this means that with the new version, I could attach the diskless boxes to my router, and they'll still know how to boot from and send work to the fold server?
     
  17. Penguincomp

    Penguincomp Racer [H]

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    I'd use the proposed method if I was to use it. Would make for a much simplier farm.
     
  18. Crashsector

    Crashsector [H]ard|Gawd

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    I say make one more round of fixes and improvements on the current distro to get it nice and stable, then switch to the new concept.

    [​IMG]
     
  19. EinsteiN

    EinsteiN Limp Gawd

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    I would not be able to use the fold-server if it doesn't seperate the fold segment from the rest of the network(the network is a dorm network - rather unfriendly place to put your farm.).

    So I voted for 2 nics - one nic would mean no more farm for me.

    -E

    [​IMG]

    EDIT:
    LOL - not to mention all the people with net boot enabled machines who would boot up from the 1 nic fold-server and start folding for me(Not nescerray a bad thing but I won't become popular(Network admin I am))
     
  20. PoisonedPawn45

    PoisonedPawn45 Gawd

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    I vote for the proposed system

    [​IMG]
     
  21. Ronbo

    Ronbo [H]ard|Gawd

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    my vote is for the two NIC version, I'm not using fold server now, but I plan to as I accumalate a few more naked boxen (I've got one semi-nude now :) )
     
  22. marty9876

    marty9876 [H]ard|DCer of the Month - February 2006

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    What exactly are the pros/cons of each method?
     
  23. unhappy_mage

    unhappy_mage [H]ard|DCer of the Month - October 2005

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    mike400hp: Yep, managed switches would probably know how to handle this.

    It would actually be possible to have 2 seperate networks still with something like another linksys box in the middle, but it'd be more complicated.

    As for pros and cons of the new method, I'll try to list some but I'm not sure I can account for all the situations.

    Pros:
    - works for those without extra adapters.
    - won't require NAT -> more speed
    - direct access to clients without setting routes
    - doesn't require a static route on the gateway (but this is dealt with in other ways, too)

    Cons:
    - Less flexibility, the two networks are irrevocably tied together
    - Won't work with college networks because of reason #1

    That's about all I can come up with; if anyone else has more, feel free to add input.
    If it comes down to it, I've got a few NICs (read: few hundred) at a school I volunteer that we're not using and would work with fold-server. I'd ship 'em for free if I had the money (which I don't :rolleyes: ) and you're welcome to them. PM if you're interested.

    Finally, let me just make clear that even if I make a new version with 1 nic support, nobody has to upgrade to it. It wouldn't have more speed, just more features, and eventually I'll get back to a version that supports one or two adapters, with all the features.

    HTH ;)
    [​IMG]
     
  24. mike400hp

    mike400hp n00bie

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    2 Network Cards
    Pros:
    Separate Networks for Diskless Folding boxes
    No PXE boot issues if you have more other services that use PXE
    No DHCP Issues

    Cons:
    Extra Cost of NICs and switchs/hubs
    Possibly more complex setup/installation
    Router might not be able to setup static mapping to a different subnet (can setup manual IPtable though)

    For me a single NIC solution would not work, because I use the Windows Remote Installation service on my active directory network. Maybe there is a solution to running two PXE services on the same network, but I don't see how that would work.
     
  25. rodsfree

    rodsfree [H]ard|Gawd

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    I would rather have the 2 nic system.
    I can get nic's cheap... ebay or friends like u_m.
    Switches are more expensive, especially one that have more than 5 ports.
    Though I can get 5 port switches fairly cheap.
    But to run a 5 boxen farm + 1 server + my puter + wifes puter + whatever puter I'm playing with + print server + file server = more money than I want to spend on a switch.
    Plus.... the farm can run on a 10baseT switch. the rest of the house requires a 100BaseT.

    Remember, we need cheap & stable to fold. The speed we need really only counts when you're actually folding not moving files around.
    my $0.02

    [​IMG]
     
  26. EinsteiN

    EinsteiN Limp Gawd

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    A sidenote and after-thought.

    Whatever you choose (you know what I want ;)) please explicitly state it in the versions on the download and in the docs
    (Maybe a list of versions that states their capabilities(SP?)).
    Otherwise your gmail inbox will fill up fast :p with alot of questions from both old and new users.

    Another sidenote, when is the next version of fold-server expected, and what have you planned for it (Roadmap)?
    (The reason I'm asking is because then I'll finally have a reason to upgrade and switch the setup around a little)

    -E

    PS. If I can help in any way, just ask :)
     
  27. unhappy_mage

    unhappy_mage [H]ard|DCer of the Month - October 2005

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    http://fold-server.sourceforge.net/Todo
    This is my list of things I plan to get going for 1.1. I haven't updated it much, but that's mostly because I haven't worked on it much. I spent today in bed sick, so I didn't have a chance to work on anything. Mostly feeling better now, so I think I'll be able to finish up the NTP side of stuff.

    In terms of helping me out, any features you can suggest would be nice. I'm willing to implement almost anything, so just ask. Also, if you emailed me a suggestion and it's not on the list, email me again, 'cause if it's not on the list I'm not thinking about it. Sorry if I forgot you.

    As for filling up my gmail inbox, I'm using 42 of 2138 MB. Bring it on ;)
    [​IMG]
     
  28. chestRcopRpot2

    chestRcopRpot2 n00bie

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    I could live with either method.

    I'm using the current 2 nic system no problems, but changing to a 1 nic method would be no problem for me.

    I have been very pleased with fold-server. Keep up the good work :)


    Just a little question while im here. On the web stats the workunit value for each client is listed at 0. Is there an easy fix for this? or did i miss a step.
     
  29. KodiakStar

    KodiakStar /'s by 0

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    Single might be nice :p
     
  30. unhappy_mage

    unhappy_mage [H]ard|DCer of the Month - October 2005

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    I'm guessing you missed the step where you do this:
    Code:
    wget [url]http://vspx27.stanford.edu/psummary.html[/url] -O /foldsave/psummary.html
    That should fix it.

    I think for now I'll stick with 2 adapters, poll results notwithstanding. Most of the people who say "one adapter, please" don't give nice explanations of their reasons for wanting one, other than "I don't have another NIC". The people who want to stick with two nics have good reasons.

    For now, I'll get 1.1 ready and release it with support for 2 and only 2 nics. 1.2 will be a testing release with support for one and only one nic, and 1.3 will hopefully have support for either.

    Now that I've planned my release schedule for the next 5 months, time to get going. ;)
    [​IMG]
     
  31. Herulach

    Herulach Gawd

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    1 NIC would be cool, but youd surely have all sorts of issues as far as DHCP goes. Maybe you could fix it with managed switches, but thats not really an option for most folks.,
    [​IMG]
     
  32. OSUguy98

    OSUguy98 [H]ard|DCer of the Month - April 2006

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    Awe come on.... you should be able to crank that out in... well... by May 1st! :D

    Keep up the good work... hopefully I can find some time to install it and give it a go someday soon!



    Keep on Folding!!

    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
  33. KodiakStar

    KodiakStar /'s by 0

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    Ehh my reason is I still cant get it to work with my router.. but further down the road ill just break down and buy a nicer one.
     
  34. Irishllama

    Irishllama [H]ard|Gawd

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    Pfft That is what you get for using a linksys or netgear.
    [​IMG]
     
  35. chestRcopRpot2

    chestRcopRpot2 n00bie

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    cheers. i must have missed that somehow. works fine now.
     
  36. unhappy_mage

    unhappy_mage [H]ard|DCer of the Month - October 2005

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    Well, I just looked thru the docs - it's not just you, I forgot to mention it in the docs. I thought I had. Oh well, it's on my list now.
    [​IMG]