First time water cooling... with 4 GPU's! Could really use a bit of advise.

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CodeMonkey

Weaksauce
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Oct 15, 2009
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I'm looking to cool my GPU's and CPU. :D
Alright, this is my final chosen setup. Any more suggestions? All are greatly appreciated.

Here's my system:
MoBo: MSI 890FXA-GD70
CPU: AMD Phenom X4 955 BE 3.2 GHz <--- rarely stressed, not OCed
GPU: Radeon HD 5870 (Reference)
Radeon HD 5870 (LCS)
Radeon HD 5870
Radeon HD 6950

HDDs: OCZ 120GB SSD
WD Velociraptor x2
WD 1TB
RAM: 8GB Ripjaws CAS 7


Here's the Liquid Cooling system I want:
Radiator: Swiftech MCR420-QP <--- Purchased @ sidwindercomputers
Pump: Swiftech MCP655 <--- Purchased from [H] CrazyV
Reservoir: Bitspower Water Tank Z-Multi 400 (765mL Capacity) <--- Purchased @ sidwindercomputers
CPU: Swiftech Apogee GT <--- Purchased from [H] Dolfan13
GPU: VID-AR587T2 for HD 5870 <--- Purchased from [H] DCMod
GPU: Swiftech Komodo HD6900 (for non reference 6950) <--- Purchased from [H] Copenhagen69

Here's the loop I intend to use at present:
|--GPU 1--|
|--GPU 2--|_ _CPU --Radiator--Reservoir--pump-- > (loop)
|--GPU 3--|
|--GPU 4--|

I will be using 10mm (3/8") ID tubes with all compression nozzles from Koolance.
For the split to cool the GPUs in parallel I will be using Koolance's 5-way Brass Nozzle Body.
For the coolant I will be using distilled water with PT Nuke.

Pre S&H Price Tag: $519

:p < plagiarism > Thanks to anyone who responds, I really appreciate it! I don't wanna screw this up, so I'm trying to be as prepared as I can! </plagiarism> :p
 
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3/8 vs 1/2 has been proven to have minimal differences. No difference between silver killcoil and PT nuke, but you have to remember to add PT nuke each time you refill the system, whereas silver killcoil is leave and forget.

DO NOT get that pump. Get two MCP355 or MCP655 instead. I would go with the 655, and run them in series (outlet of one goes to the inlet of the other). That 750 pump can barely even handle a single CPU + GPU block and radiator, much less multiple blocks and a radiator.

I would run the GPU blocks in parallel. If you do not know what that means, look it up. It'll provide more even temps, and that's where two 655's come in handy, due to their high flow rates compared to the 355.

You're looking to spend way too little for what is needed to cool your system. A proper watercooling solution for your system with brand new parts should cost at least 500-600. Used parts will cost less, but you're still looking at least $300-400. Save up some money first, then look into watercooling.
 
I agree with Tsumi on the pt nuke part i would rather drop a silver kill coil in and call it a day.
 
Tsumi thanks for the reply. +I'll extend my budget for this setup to $550. It's not a matter of not having the money, but rather a matter of not wasting it. Still, I agree, +there's no point in doing it if it isn't going to be done right.+
I was eyeing the MCP655 anyway so I'm adding two of those in a push pull config. Thanks for the tip on parallel cooling. I hadn't previously come across that in my reading. So out of the radiator I'm going to split 4-way to each GPU and then rejoin all 4 before going to the CPU. Any other n00btard changes you suggest I fix?

Thanks again for the feedback. It's exactly what I needed.
 
Thanks Aus10 for seconding the kill coil. I'll be using that as well. Looks like you and Tsumi both have killer liquid cooling setups. :)
 
CodeMonkey said:
Thanks Aus10 for seconding the kill coil. I'll be using that as well. Looks like you and Tsumi both have killer liquid cooling setups. :)
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His is good mine sucks and i hate it honestly. If i can give a word of advice dont go cheap either shell out the money or dont do it. I went cheap and bought used granted the guy i bought it from didnt tell me how bad all this was. Anyways used stuff is good just idk liquid cooling is a hobby you should do it the way you want to.

I honestly think you should look at better cpu blocks and full coverage blocks they just look better IMO and your rads are fine.. Although i would look for more just so i can run quiter fans and still have good cooling. You can never have to much rad lol. but The mcp 655 is the pump i will be getting soon. Since i hate all my stuff so much im selling it and buying new stuff.

You also need to account for fittings. Compression fittings are smexy looking but expensive barbs arnt as good looking but are a hell of alot cheaper.
 
I'm definitely doing compression fittings. I'll post up changes including better water blocks for the GPUs in a bit. Having a bit of a tough time find a water block for the non reference 6950 though.
 
I think as much as i hate this block the Xspc rasa cpu block is a good performance cpu block... I would look into them instead... they perform well just i hate there looks I would much rather have a Koolance 370 (My next cpu block) I am selling my Xspc rasa cpu block. I like my computer to look good too so i am going to pay more and get better looking stuff lol
 
I like the Koolance 370 as well. I may end up getting it, but it's way more expensive than other equally competitive cpu blocks. I agree, it does look damn cool though. :cool:
 
The best piece of advice is to not do this until you've had experience watercooling something much simpler, maybe 1 CPU + GPU. Otherwise, chances are very good that this will turn into a complete disaster.
 
That's why I'm here for advise. I already had two gpus, but saw a deal here on [H] that I couldn't pass up now I need to cool all these cards and I just don't think air is going to do it. At least not without being extremely loud. :(
I will take my time, spend what's needed and try to be careful as I can. I will be testing the LC system for 24hrs before I actually install it. If you have any other pointers I'm all ears. :)
 
Dont be like me and just assemble it in your computer and turn it on without leak checking or anything and its your first time lol. I got lazy and didnt know what to do plus since i bought used i was even more clueless...
 
Ok, so now the plan is to parallel cool the GPUs then hit the cpu block, so my set up sort of goes:

|--GPU 1--|
|--GPU 2--|_ _CPU --Radiator--Radiator-- Reservoir --pump--pump-- > (end loop)
|--GPU 3--|
|--GPU 4--|

I'll have a 5-way splitter on either side of the GPUs and I'm think 2 radiators should be able to dump plenty of heat. If anyone knows of a radiator that can do the work of these two let me know. :) Also in better options for a reservoir or does it really not matter?

I'll be sure to post pictures when this setup is finally complete. :D
 
With the amount I'm investing in this rig I'm absolutely going to take my time and test and re-test at ever step. I'll actually test my cooling circuit for at LEAST 24hr. After I've got a few approvals on my proposed setup I'll go ahead and order this weekend. Hopefully everything is here by Weds or Thurs day so I can run it and test it for a couple of days before actually installing it next Saturday. :D
 
Im confused? I would think it would be best to have like maybe pump- cpu- rad-All gpus-pump-rad-res-then pump..-....
 
Hmmm, I could certainly play around with that. I'll pm Tsumi to see if there's any particular advantage to using the pumps push/pull rather than spacing them out. Intuitively I would have probably went with something like your suggesting. Wow! Looks like this setup is going to run me $700 unless I can find some quality used parts! :eek:
 
Welll yeah lol its not cheap i would rather let the flow die down a bit and then shoot it back up maybe put the pump then the res or something i would rather space them out though if i were you
 
Couple of final questions before I start buying.
Anyone have any suggestions for a good cpu block (price to performance)?
Anyone have any experiences (good or bad) with Bitspower reservoirs?
Is there an advantage to placing the pumps one after the other in the cooling circuit as opposed to spreading them out?

Thanks
 
1) Xspc Rasa
2) Not with there reservoirs but they are the best with there compression fittings so i would imagine that there reses are just as good.
3) Not sure, I think it would be better to space them out.
 
Wow dont do two loops ... no need ... a 3 or 4 fan rad can do the job no problem with a good push/pull setup. Water has an absolutely amazing ability to saturate heat and dissipate that same heat to another medium.

After all you have one coolant loop on your car and it generates 10's and 10's of thousands of BTUs of heat, way more than any computer component can ever generate.

Im going to recommend you consider Swiftech MCP35X as it has a higher head pressure and higher flow rate than the 655 does. It is a new pump by swiftech.

Also I would consider this order in your loop.....

Res - Pump - GPU - GPU - GPU - CPU - Rad - back to Res

You see air accepts heat differently than water does. If you were to pump air through hoses to cool your equipment the air would get hotter and hotter and hotter and eventually unusable.

With liquid the entire loop will stabilize to an even temperature throughout the loop regardless of where the liquid last left. Of course it will get hotter and hotter if you are not able to transfer the heat out of the radiator..

The properly of thermodynamics with Air are very different that with water. You see that is why water cooling is extremely effective and efficient over air.

GPUs on air tend to run in the high 70-80's or higher under load but with water GPUs run in the 50's and in many times lower.

Also your CPU will not be generating much heat or adding heat to the loop while the GPUs are load bearing, and the GPUs will not be adding heat to the loop while the CPU is load bearing. Its a natural balance.

The loop and cooling system will be wicking away heat for the GPUs or the CPUs but usally never both. Its only typically responsible for cooling one or the other in most normal gamer circumstances.

As far as CPU block I have had great experience with the Swiftech Apogee GTZ for socket 1155. Its a solid copper unit and does a fantastic job in my opinion. And with swiftech I have experience absolutely amazing customer service. I have a waterblock being RMA'd right now and it was my fault I purchased the wrong item. They even offered to pay for my shipping to them since they felt bad they didnt update the fitment on their site for the card I bought. It was the technical information I based my purchase off of. They are great company.

And testing your loop, 24 hr is fine for a first timer. Ive gotten to the point with water cooling that I just clamp shit down and run it for 30 mins, no leaks and it goes into production mode.

But I do love looking at pictures of over complicated and over constructed h2 loops in so many rigs. Bigger is not better, science is better, and application of science in water cooling is better than anything.

**lastly I know you didnt ask this in your post but you are not going to be able to xfire the 5000 and 6000 series GPUs together to my knowledge.
 
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Dude, you're awesome! If I can get down in the 50's under load I'd be perfectly happy. Not to mention removing one pump and a radiator simplifies the setup (less likely to screw up then I'd hope) and it saves some money. :) I'll still cool the GPU's in parallel, but I may look for a 4 fan radiator instead of the three.
Thanks a ton. I'm going to look into the pump you mentioned and do a little more homework.
 
TYVM for that very clear explanation. I'm going to get the Apogee for the CPU and I like the simplified loop. I'm assuming that you mean for the GPU's to be in parallel so as to have more even temps. As for the pumps I'm not sure how to utilize the specs:

Swiftech MCP655
Maximum pressure: 50 PSI
Maximum head: 10ft
Max nominal discharge: 1200 LPH (flow rate?)

Swiftech MCP35X
Maximum pressure: 22 PSI
Maximum head: 14.7ft
Max nominal discharge: 1050 LPH (flow rate?)

So is max head more important than flow rate and discharge? I understand that the head determines how far I can move the coolant, but in the case of PC cooling does an extra 4.7ft of head out weigh pressure and flow rate? In either case would one pump really be enough for this set up? I don't think I'll have more than 10ft of hose running in the machine so it seems feasible.
This seems to bear out your preference for the MCP35X though:
swiftech-pumps-compared.png
 
No problem but of course get some other opinions out there and then summarize them all and make the best decision for you!
 
Quick Bump. I've finalized components and setup.
Many thanks to everyone that has given me input thus far.
I think I have a pretty descent LC build now.
I'd greatly appreciate any thoughts or suggestions. :D
 
I think I would put more rad on it. Koolance's "1300w dissipation" claim is way overrated. Water gives you a lot of wiggle room, but definitely not that much.

I have two triple Swiftech rads with two 6970's (one at 1GHz, one at 925Mhz for now, memory underclocked to 340Mhz on each) and my 2600k at 4.8Ghz.

Before adding the second 6970, temps on the one card were 30°C idle and 41°C load. After adding the second card, idle is the same (drivers shut off one of the cards while idle), but load temp is now 44°C. I can imagine that adding two more cards would bring temperatures up a lot more, as it would overwhelm the rad area. I will be adding a third triple rad whenever I can figure out how to mount it securely. :)

Are there any space limitations, ie must fit in certain case or anything?
 
If you're going ahead with it, the best piece of equipment to have by far is the Koolance Quick-fit Disconnect. You use two pairs (two male, two female) before and after the GPU part of your loop so you can isolate and remove the GPUs without having to drain the whole system or risk getting anything wet.
 
jedimasterben said:
I think I would put more rad on it. Koolance's "1300w dissipation" claim is way overrated. Water gives you a lot of wiggle room, but definitely not that much.

I have two triple Swiftech rads with two 6970's (one at 1GHz, one at 925Mhz for now, memory underclocked to 340Mhz on each) and my 2600k at 4.8Ghz.

Before adding the second 6970, temps on the one card were 30°C idle and 41°C load. After adding the second card, idle is the same (drivers shut off one of the cards while idle), but load temp is now 44°C. I can imagine that adding two more cards would bring temperatures up a lot more, as it would overwhelm the rad area. I will be adding a third triple rad whenever I can figure out how to mount it securely. :)

Are there any space limitations, ie must fit in certain case or anything?
Click to expand...

What pump (or pumps) are you using? I'm going to test with the one rad first and if my temps aren't in the low 50's under load I'll definitely be adding another rad. I too doubt that the Koolance fan is dissipating that much heat, but if they're close enough not to get sued for false advertising then I think I should get at least 900-1100 W heat dissipation. To the best of my knowledge the MCR320 only dissipates 500W or so at top fan speeds. That said, if I need an extra rad it'll be the MCR320 triple rad since that's what I'd originally chosen. I don't have too many space constraints as the radiator, reservoir, and pump will be outside the case. Thanks for the feedback!
 
Matrices said:
If you're going ahead with it, the best piece of equipment to have by far is the Koolance Quick-fit Disconnect. You use two pairs (two male, two female) before and after the GPU part of your loop so you can isolate and remove the GPUs without having to drain the whole system or risk getting anything wet.
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Great, great tip! Thank you! Just added two VL3N pairs to my shopping list. It would be a pain in the @$$ having to drain the system just to replace or move cards.
 
Higher head is important for restrictive systems (lots of components in serial). It needs more pressure (force) to get the water through everything. Higher flow rates are more important with systems that run in parallel.
 
CodeMonkey said:
What pump (or pumps) are you using? I'm going to test with the one rad first and if my temps aren't in the low 50's under load I'll definitely be adding another rad. I too doubt that the Koolance fan is dissipating that much heat, but if they're close enough not to get sued for false advertising then I think I should get at least 900-1100 W heat dissipation. To the best of my knowledge the MCR320 only dissipates 500W or so at top fan speeds. That said, if I need an extra rad it'll be the MCR320 triple rad since that's what I'd originally chosen. I don't have too many space constraints as the radiator, reservoir, and pump will be outside the case. Thanks for the feedback!
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Well the XSPC triple Rad is a lot thicker with a higher fin density so it will mean for more cooling area.You may wanna take a look at their site.

If you do want to go with another rad I have a 2 fan I will gladly sell you. I think its model is MCR220 (2 12cm Fan Rad from Swiftech)
 
As far as I know, all XSPC radiators are low fpi, 8 fpi vs 12 fpi of the mcr radiators.
 
Tsumi said:
As far as I know, all XSPC radiators are low fpi, 8 fpi vs 12 fpi of the mcr radiators.
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Okay this im not sure of and if you are right then the swiftech rads are better due to the higher flow rate through the fins. I guess the faster the water can circulate back to the heat exchanger the cooler the overall balanced temperature will end up being.
 
Higher flow rates help to a certain point, due to keeping cooler water in the block. However, the reverse happens from the radiator perspective, where it doesn't spend as much time being cooled. That's why after ~1 GPM, flow rates above that don't really affect anything.

From what I remember reading, the XSPC radiators have 8 FPI, and the Swiftech radiators have 12. The low FPI of the XSPC radiators will give it the edge in extreme low speeds (500-900 RPM in single side fan configuration), but would work against it in medium speeds and above (1000 RPM and higher). It'll also work against it in push/pull configurations.

The best comparison I can think of is between a TFC Monsta 420 (I might be mixing this up with a different radiator, but you get the point) (8 FPI radiator I believe, very thick, I think around 50mm) and a Black Ice GTS 420 (32 FPI radiator, very thin, approximately 20mm, less than half of the Monsta). In pull only configuration, the GTS matched the Monsta at about 1500-1700 RPM, and surpassed it at higher fan speeds, but did really poorly below 1200. However, in push/pull, the GTS matched it at 900-1000, surpassing it at all fan speeds above.
 
Aus10 said:
His is good mine sucks and i hate it honestly. If i can give a word of advice dont go cheap either shell out the money or dont do it. I went cheap and bought used granted the guy i bought it from didnt tell me how bad all this was. Anyways used stuff is good just idk liquid cooling is a hobby you should do it the way you want to.
Click to expand...

There is absolutely nothing wrong with cheap and used. This is the route I took and built a loop that allows ample room to grow as needed

OP, if you're not in a hurry, you can pickup great deals in the for sale section of many forums. Heres my sub-$300 budget loop that is a solid foundation to get into watercooling.
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1608393
 
Your radiator setup is awesome! :cool:
I'm not in a terrible hurry so I am hunting for components at great deals. Have a few parts in already.

86 5.0L said:
There is absolutely nothing wrong with cheap and used. This is the route I took and built a loop that allows ample room to grow as needed

OP, if you're not in a hurry, you can pickup great deals in the for sale section of many forums. Heres my sub-$300 budget loop that is a solid foundation to get into watercooling.
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1608393
Click to expand...
 
I know this is really isn't showing much. And I have sold 2 6970s to get a 6990 to run my awesome 6805 SAS card, I needed the slot. But here is roughly what my setup looks like until later this week when I get my 6990 in (I already have a track no and its on the way woot). I will be placing the 90 and 70 in the loop in serial. I may actually need to purchase a MCP35X to replace the lower head pressure 655 pump I currently run. Im also going to minimize the amount of tubing to increase interline pressure.

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1617900
 
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