First external drive purchase

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Lord Chambers

Weaksauce
Joined
Jul 4, 2003
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I've got two 80 gig SATA drives in RAID 0 right now, and they're approaching their capacity. Plus, it's about right time to reformat, and so I'm looking at getting an external drive to back up my data first.

I've been to the Western Digital, Seagate, and Maxtor sites looking at their products, and also to Pricewatch. My question is, is there anything I should know before going ahead and making a purchase?

I'm thinking 200gbs would be sufficient. My mobo supports USB 2.0, so I figure that's the way to connect, rather than with firewire. 8mb cache would make sense too. 7200RPM seems standard. Am I missing anything important?

The differences between this 200gb Maxtor at Newegg and this from some less reputable dealer brings me to this question: Do I need to have the drive formatted before I get it? Aren't I just going to do that anyway? Or is that just the drill for internal drives, and your average external drive comes ready to use?
 
Originally posted by lessthanjakejohn
The USB standard is in a state of flux, with vendors often using their
own interpretation of the words "full" and "high". At one point, "full
speed" referred to USB 1.1 operating in a USB 2 port at the 12Mb/s
maximum of USB 1.1. "High speed" referred to the standard maximum speed
of USB 2, 480Mb/s. The USB organization has a statement to the effect
that one should determine what is being stated by a vendor from the
vendor itself if there is any doubt about what is being advertized.
This is important since some vendors were using the term "USB 2
compliant" to mean USB 1.1 would work, while customers were interpreting
it as "USB 2".

The USB standards organization still recognizes that Full Speed and Low
Speed refer to USB (formerly known as USB 1.1) transfer rates, and
High-Speed refers to Hi-Speed USB (formerly known as USB 2) at its
maximum transfer rate.

http://www.usb.org/info/usb_nomenclature

The USB-IF's naming and packaging recommendations for low- or full-speed
USB products, as listed on this web site state that such products can
carry only the basic version of the USB logo, which simply states
"Certified USB." We state clearly that manufacturers should avoid using
terminology such as USB 2.0 Full Speed, Full Speed USB or USB 2.0. These
formal recommendations were published to the USB-IF membership and
posted on this web site in August 2002.
[end quote]
Click to expand...

Originally posted by PassMark
As there was some discussion about USB speed (Highspeed/FullSpeed), I thought I would mention that there are a number of other factors that impact USB speed. While USB 1.1 vs USB 2.0 is the most important, as already pointed out, USB 2.0 supports FullSpeed (12 Mb/s) and USB 2.0 may only operate below this speed. So it is imporatnt to know whether your USB 2.0 port and device are capable of HighSpeed.

Other issues that impact USB speed include: the manufacturers host controller implementation, point of connectivity to the host controller (e.g. A connection via the PCI bus will insert a bottleneck to achieving High-speed rates. My testing of PCI connected ports show they typically have a much slower maximum speed of 100 - 130Mb/s compared to typically 250Mb/s to 330Mb/s when directly connected to the motherboard, cabling (you might be surprised how much re-transmission is occurring - slowing things down), the device driver used, implementation of the USB device and the implementation of the application software.

This information is based on reliability testing and benchmarking carried out on the recently released USB 2.0 loopback and benchmark plug from www.passmark.com/product/usb2loopback.htm
Click to expand...


personally, Id add another HDD internally (via a PCI Card if nothing else)
if there was no room, and I had a spot near my computer that was guranteed to not be effected my impact, vibration ect

Id go the eSATA route

and if I had no other PCI slots available, and the performance wasnt important
Id still look at the above and double check exactly what performance figures my specific combination of components might yield ;)

HDDs are Fragile devices, and using large capacity 3.5" form Factor Internal HDDs in little external enclosures wouldnt be my first choice, with extreme care it works, but there are people in here every day with my HDD died
Click to expand...
 
I still have two internal bays I could use if I so wanted, perhaps even five if I removed the PC speaker. The point of getting an external drive is just so I can backup my media for a format, and the fact that I could utilize the space to keep my RAID 0 drives at lower capacity for files I don't anticipate using often is just a benefit. While I could still meet those goals with another internal drive, I would feel compelled to add it to the RAID in some way, and the of course I'd be utilizing it and dirtying with the two I already have, so then when I went to format again I'd had to find some other way to backup my data.

I realize the externalness of a drive is really just physical, and that I could simply have an internal drive that I only use for backup, as I would an external drive. At first thought though, an external drive seems right up my alley. And considering it is transportable, it has an added benefit. I guess the question I have to answer is, would I rather have something transportable, or something cheaper and more secure?
 
Alright, so now I'm looking more into another internal drive, primarily because they are cheaper. Are there any concerns associated with having different size drives by different manufacturers in the same computer? My RAID 0 drives are 80gb Seagate's, and if I were to get another drive it'd probably be about 200gb, and Seagate doesn't sell any SATA drives larger than 160gb, from what I see on their site and Pricewatch.
 
Originally posted by Lord Chambers
Are there any concerns associated with having different size drives by different manufacturers in the same computer?
Click to expand...
I'd really like to know, because it's the difference between going with a 160gb Seagate or a 200gb something else.

Now it looks like Seagate does have a 200gb SATA offering, but I can only find it on their site, and not for sale anywhere.
 
Originally posted by Lord Chambers
Are there any concerns associated with having different size drives by different manufacturers in the same computer?
Click to expand...
I can't think of any technical reasons one ought to avoid using different manufacturers...
 
...but then again I don't have much knowedge of how hard drives interact with the rest of the computer.
 
nope there is no reason to worry about different makes and models in a computer per se
they all work in accordance with the protocol they are designed for (PATA\SATA\SCSI\FC) and should cause no problems in theory

however there are compelling reasons to adopted matched HDDs for any hadware arrays (RAID or JBOD\Just a Bunch Of Disks)
where a single controller has to deal with multiple HDDs for striping, mirroring or parity
since each make\model of HDD has its own cache algorithm, and handles the data slightly differently, the controller is better off writing or reading the data to both (or many) HDDs if they are identical

the same logic could possibly apply to any onboard controller
but the number of variables is daunting, the standards call for complete compatibility, but in RAID arrays for instance, some HDDs seem to do better than others in certain RAID levels with certain controllers, the same may well be true for chipset to HDD performance, it becomes the most efficient use of the various cache levels of the system (from the L2 and system memory to the HDD cache) and exactly how the application is accessing the HDD (reads\writes) and the filesystem parameters (filesystem type, partition size\location\cluster size)

the main difference here is that the controller on a mainboard isnt typically attempting to complete a read or write concurrently to two (or more) seperate HDDs, where the little differences could slow completion

thats all together what optimizing and benchmarking is about
as well as motherboard\chipset selection \ busmaster driver development and HDD selection

the "best" performance combination is often elusive
they all "should" work the same, but the difference between theory and implementation does pop up here and there
actually on second thought, its the incremental improvements in HDDs offered by various models that brings this about, currently most HDDs of a given "class" (similar areal density, spindle speed, cache size, ect) are pretty close to identical, its often the cache algorithms and firmware, how they intellegently handle the data that makes or breaks the performance of the drive.
 
Roger doger Czar, thanks for the informative posts.

I want to buy a 200gb SATA Seagate drive, but it's only listed on their site, and not for sell anywhere, even Seagate resellers listed on the Seagate site. Has anyone seen this drive availible?

Presuming I can't find this drive, I'll probably get a 200 or 250 Maxtor or WD. Anyone want to caution me against certain models? Perhaps the 200gb WDs are known for sucking, or perhaps I should avoid 250 altogether because of a cost premium for those extra 50gbs? If you were in my shoes, what size would you get, and which manufacturer?
 
well counter-intuitively most externalSATA HDD enclosures take PATA HDDs :p

so verify any options your considering for the external enclosure ;)

Id assume its a continuation of the eagate 7200.7?
readily available in 160GB, may take awhile to get it in 200GB
personally, Id be far more concerned with the supply chain reliability than the early sourcing of a model ;)
 
I'm talkin' internal drives!
You changed my mind.

Another thing I'd be interested in hearing about are suggestions on how to keep this new drive from getting mucked up like drives do through often use. If I just keep this new drive for use as file storage, and don't install anything on it, I'll never see a need to format it will I? What if my system gets a virus? Then the storage drive is in jeopordy isn't it?

Hrmm. It's a pain, but I could just disconnect the drive when I'm not using it. Should I keep it powered?
 
LOL, well I think its a wise decision, they are far less suceptible to "accidents"

a better approach is to, actually backup the HDD
I employ 3 layers of data backup

Redundancy, where I keep important data in multiple HDD locations (I have 2 RAID 5 arrays available for this)

Images of the HDD or partition

and Hard Backup to Media (Tape, CD or DVD)

each has its advantages
by Imaging a partition (with say Ghost) if an OS install for anyreason goes bad, its relatively easy to simply restore the image, (drivers, tweaks, installed programs, and data)

Redundancy has the advantage that there is no downtime
the data being accessible elswhere, and in the case of a RAID 5 array, as long as only a single HDD is lost, its just degraded (meaning there is no longer redundancy but is accessible) but you would want to rebuild it as soon as possible, as the loss of a second HDD will kill the array

and the advantages of Hard "true" backup are obvious

the time required for each is really the factor
I tend to burn hard media (CDR) for data "sets"
a project, subject, or folder (like my docs) though with ghost you can span disks and burn whole partitions so you can restore them

the RAID array is probably the easiest as its just online
and I save data directly, but its not true backup in the real sense of the word, I do keep Ghost images on it however

as far as security goes
Invest the time to learn how to secure your system
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=741280&perpage=15&pagenumber=2
 
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