First build in seven years

[AlexanderMorou]

Greetings,

I'm building a new computer in a couple of stages, to break up the system, so it's more affordable (i.e. I don't have the full cost up front.) The primary focus of this system is Programming, Digital Media Creation, 3D Modeling, and gaming. My budget is 5-6 thousand dollars spanned across 4-5 purchases of 1300 dollars (my bi-monthly pay). I live in mid-west Kansas, so there's not a lot of tech in the area. The following is what I'm planning on getting, the 'x' means I have already purchased it.

☒ CPU : Intel Core i7-980X Extreme Edition Gulftown 3.33GHz $1,079.99
☐ Memory : Mushkin Enhanced Blackline 24GB (6x4GB in two 3x4GB packages) $1,299.98
☐ Motherboard : EVGA 170-BL-E762-A1 LGA 1366 Intel X58 4-WAY SLI Classified $ 479.99
☐ PSU : Thermaltake Toughpower W0133RU 1200W $ 364.99
☐ GPU : Two EVGA 015-P3-1482-AR GeForce GTX 480 $1,079.98
☐ SSD : Intel X25-M Mainstream SSDSA2MH160G2R5 2.5" 160GB $ 459.99
☒ Case : LIAN LI PC-P80 Black Aluminum ATX Full Tower Computer Case $ 299.99
☐ Optical : LITE-ON 24X DVD Writer iHAS424-98 LightScribe Support $ 31.99
☐ Operating System: Windows 7 Ultimate - OEM $ 174.99
————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
Combo Savings : -$ 75.00
Total (current) : $5,196.89
————————————————————————————————————————————————————————————
Remaining : $3,816.91


I'm not reusing any parts, this is a from scratch build. The listed processor and case will arrive some time next week. The aspect of overclocking is the main reason I'm here, I know jack squat about it, and given the price range I'm focusing on, I want to have a clue before I start screwing with settings. Namely things that might not be very apparent:

• How does overclocking affect the overall MTBF of a given product. Can altering the functional output and thermal footprint affect the product's lifetime, even when adequate cooling solutions are used?
  • If the lifetime of the product is impacted by the overclock, can you give a general way to estimate the negative expected change a given overclock can have?

I haven't decided on a monitor at this time but I'm open to suggestions, since I don't consider a monitor a part of my estimate, if the price range exceeds the range set, that's fine.

I'm mostly looking for insight here towards overclocking, the price range is a bit high, but that's why I've broken it down into more manageable chunks. The next purchase will likely be RAM and optical drive. As an aside, I'm not fond of blu-ray for some reason. I also plan on having this system for a good few years at least. I don't regularly update hardware, just as a point of reference.

 

[tiraides]

I'm going to say this now: You're spending way too much money. If you can, cancel the order on the 980X and Lian-Li case.

So we have a point of reference of our own, please tell us which parts you used in your prior build. Additionally, please answer the following questions:

- How long did you keep your prior rig for?
- Which monitor(s)/resolution(s) do you use for gaming? At which level of visual quality? Do you use AA/AF as well?
- Which games do you plan on playing? Which (resource-intensive) software do you use?
- How did you get the idea(s) for the parts that you list in your OP?

Done properly, and with the right equipment (namely, a good CPU cooler and a case that provides excellent cooling of components), overclocking will not reduce the "lifespan" of a component any more than running things at stock speeds.

 

[AlexanderMorou]

I'm not worried about the price. I appreciate your focus on the price, but why should that matter (rhetorical)?

The Core i7 980X is a 6-core processor with hyper-threading enabled, I'm sure you know this, though. I focus on writing programs that write programs, I'm interested in the thought of making them multi-threaded. Since I'm the primary end-user of this program, being able to have as much power as I can is essential.

I picked the RAM from some reviews I read about the size range I've selected, I selected the quantity because the paltry 1GB I use now I've had times where I was unable to operate my system without terminating certain applications due to the amount of memory they require (mostly programs written by myself, they weren't poorly written, they were just processing a lot of data, I've done profiling on them to ensure myself of this.)

I'm selecting a SSD as the primary drive due to speed. I'll focus on upgrading the size of the drive as I get more familiar with higher-quality digital media creation and the space becomes an issue. I selected the EVGA Classified 4-way SLI in the event that I ever decide to change my mind and purchase the extra two, yes it would require probably either a different, or an extra, power supply.

I kept my previous system until now. I can't game on my current system, at least not on any current games. As a point of reference, Half-life 2 gets a handfull of frames per second, on low.

I plan on trying a variety of games, mostly to get an idea of how far I need to go media wise before I can consider myself acceptable. As for what those games are, I don't know, I've never played a current generation title on my system (only the XBox 360).

I selected the parts in the list myself based off of my own impatience for waiting and desire to get serious about game development in the media and software development side of things.

 

[tiraides]

You could build a good Core i7/X58-based system for around $1500-$2000, and that system will do everything you want almost as well as your $5000+ build.

If you really want a six-core processor, wait until they cost less than $500 a pop. Intel's Extreme Edition line of processors are bad buys because, historically, a new processor arrives within a year or two after the EE is released and performs about as well as the EE for much less. An "entry level" Core i7 920 or 930 overclocked to above 3.2GHz would outperform just about any Intel Socket 775 or AMD AM2+/AM3 processor with "similar" specifications.

Regarding RAM, few (commercial) programs require more than 6GB of RAM. While I am fully aware of what you're using the RAM for, in many cases, it's better to just get two 3x2GB kits (for a total of 12GB of RAM) and use one of those kits to create a super-fast swap disk using RAMdisk software.

At a 1920x1200 resolution, one GTX 480 or a single HD5870 could handle most games in the market (save for those designed to tax video cards, like Crysis).

Besides multiple PCI-E x16 slots and good overclocking features, what else do you need in a motherboard?

 

[engiNURD]

If you're having to worry about the up-front cost of an Expensive Edition build, then you might want to re-evaluate your needs and wants, IMO. I mean, sure, its you're money, but as tiraides said, you really don't have to spend that much to get good performance. Also, AMD's 6-core CPUs are coming out soon, so you might want to wait and see how they do in comparison; who knows, you might be better off building a dual-cpu with that. Have you looked into a dual LGA1366 system over a single 980X system?

 

[AlexanderMorou]

I'm not asking for financial advice. I'm asking for OC advice.

Perhaps I have the wrong community.

 

[lt_shiro]

I'm not asking for financial advice. I'm asking for OC advice.

Perhaps I have the wrong community.

http://hardforum.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=2

this is the overclocking section

its up too u how u spend your money but when a person has taken they time to explain why buying a $1,100 CPU is not the best idea in the world but you should listen first before get all cranky.

 

[SUPERGT]

Yeah, you're always going to have the first few people start off with the economics of your build. Personally, I am doing almost the same as you and spanning my purchases over several months - and doing it with the 980X no less.

They are right about the cost/performance of the 980X, and the worth of an EE processor. But even given that, it will still be a top-notch processor for years to come.

Regarding overclocking, I specially am using a 980X so that I don't have to overclock. All I can suggest though to reduce wear while overclocking, is to use adequate cooling. For something as big and fast as a 980X, I would suggest water. Especially if you're going to have such a large budget to begin with - throwing in a $200-$300 loop shouldn't be a problem. I am actually using a Freezone Elite MTEC system for my next build, since I wanted a maintenance free system. Unfortunately they've been since discontinued, but I'm just trying to push my point of big-ticket CPU's get big-ticket cooling.

Right now the only few things I would change from your current list would be the RAM - I don't think 24GB really has a real world use - for the most part. 12GB should be more than adequate, and if you needed more performance, you could just upgrade the RAM later with faster stuff, rather than more.

Also, the case. I'll go back to cooling here as well, because you can get a modified PC-P80 w/ 12TEC Boreas chiller for the CPU. Link: http://www.performance-pcs.com/catalog/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=103_193&products_id=25140.

 

[tiraides]

Never mind; do what you want.

 

[AlexanderMorou]

tiraides,

Sorry to get irritated, you're not the first to complain about the cost. It's not you, it's more an issue of multiple persons citing cost as a potential issue (communities beyond this one).

lt_shiro,

I apologize if I posted this in error, I was under the impression that since it's not a presently built system it required some sort of 'build' topic to go along with the OC advice.

SuperGT,

Yes, cost per dollar with EE processors is crap. You're paying for supply/demand. Less people see need to pay the higher premium, so there's less demand, which in effect places the initial opening bid for the processors higher. That or Intel is smarter than we think, and they really sell like hot cakes; either way. As far as the modified Lian Li case goes, I haven't decided on a cooling solution yet, I was almost sure that given the type of hardware (the GTX 480s, mostly) it'd require a fairly large radiator, which would result in an external solution.

 

[SUPERGT]

SuperGT,

Yes, cost per dollar with EE processors is crap. You're paying for supply/demand. Less people see need to pay the higher premium, so there's less demand, which in effect places the initial opening bid for the processors higher. That or Intel is smarter than we think, and they really sell like hot cakes; either way. As far as the modified Lian Li case goes, I haven't decided on a cooling solution yet, I was almost sure that given the type of hardware (the GTX 480s, mostly) it'd require a fairly large radiator, which would result in an external solution.

Well, the Boreas doesn't use a radiator. It simply uses a thick heatsink, so you could eliminate the need for any external system. Plus, you can have that particular system rigged for not only the CPU, but also (at least one) GPU as well. The Boreas can handle tons.

 

[Hels]

• How does overclocking affect the overall MTBF of a given product. Can altering the functional output and thermal footprint affect the product's lifetime, even when adequate cooling solutions are used?
  • If the lifetime of the product is impacted by the overclock, can you give a general way to estimate the negative expected change a given overclock can have?

I

It depends almost entirely on the temp output of the OC'ed devices, if you can maintain the same temp output as the stock device, it shouldnt affect MTBF.

I have also heard that it negatively impact OC'ing to fill out every mem slot on your motherboard.

Your best bet though is to post this thread on the OC'ing forum.

 

[RedRaven]

It would also depend a fair bit on the volatage being applied to the device in question. Many overclocked PC have one or more parts running at higher volatage than the specified norm (ie memory, cpu, video card gpu, to name a few).

Since most PC hardware is constructed to very fine tolerances, higher voltages can mean more accidental jumps of electrons between electrical traces - over time this can build up and cause damage. I forget what the process is called, but it has a name.

The increased voltage also directly manifests itself in the form of additional waste heat.

There is no direct correlation between a potential reduction in the MTBF rate for any given part. This is where part of the 'art' of overclocking lies. Some parts, you can push and push and push and all they will do is crash, and work fine a reset later. Others, too much and pop, you're off down to the PC store to order a new one. The question of possible damage due to overclocking is not a simple one - it depends too much on design and things none of us can see or have any control over (even the hardware designers).

But as a general rule, all but the hardest overclocking techniques like liquid nitrogen/dry ice, and to a lesser extent, water-cooling (potential for leaks) do not reduce the 'noticeable' lifetime of the product. Even if the parts did suffer some damage as a result of being overclocked, it is small enough not to concern the overwhelming majority of overclockers here. Most will report no decline in the apparent lifetime of their components.

Personnally, I've been overclocking ever since Kyle posted his first articles here. The PC I write this on is almost 6 years old and has been overclocked the whole time.

PS - you have the right community - but remember most overclockers have one primary goal: getting a modestly-priced system to work as well, and better than the fastest company-specc'ed systems out there. The whole idea is to wring the performance out whilst still paying a decent price.

Ignore their advice at your peril; you speak as though there's money burning a hole in your wallet, and as someone who (used to) sell PCs, I for one would see you coming and be counting the fat wad of 100-dollar bills you lost at the end of the day.

Or a check, if you prefer.

 

[AlexanderMorou]

Whether it's a waste is a matter of relative perspective. That's neither here nor there. Part of the reason I'm buying a system in this range is I've read many reviews about the performance of this or that, but I've always bought systems at the absolute low end of the spectrum (integrated graphics, anyone?)

I used to have to save up (even longer) for the low end, now I'm merely doing the same, and I get paid, a fair bit more. I want to build one PC that I can at least get an idea of what the high end of the bracket is like. Yes, it's a bit childish, and yes, it'll be as outdated as every other system, built today, in five years. I can't say whether it's worth it or not until I try. Considering the length I wait until upgrades, I might get a slightly slanted result.

I'll make a new thread in the appropriate OC forum, which is what I think I should do since this hasn't been moved.

 

[firas]

it's not childish, others wanted to make sure you understand it won’t be 4 times faster than an I7 920 because it’s 4 times more expensive. It’s an extreme chip meant for overclocking and it has its market and buyers, it’s for sure not a useless or pointless product. and here at [H] it should be the first option for anyone.

p.s. watercool everything

 

[engiNURD]

So I take it a dual LGA1366 build is out? The reason I suggested it is because you can get two cheaper i7's plus the board for the cost of a single EE chip, and it would yeild you more cores/threads -- which, I thought, was one of your goals, but apparently I was mistaken.

Yah, we shoot for bang for buck around genhard, mainly because many people don't know that spending 100%+ more will only yield them only 20% more performance. So basically, we're just trying to provide enough info for you to make your decision. Yes, everyone has different financial requirements, but at your price range, you're definitely past the point of diminishing returns (in most people's minds, anyhow; towards your own goals, maybe not); hence all the bang for buck posts.

Your hardware selection looks fine from a OC'ing/performance perspective. You chose Mushkin Blacklines, an EE CPU, and the Classified... looks like you're good to go. Now, for specific OC'ing advice, make the new thread. Though, I am surprised you didn't choose Dominators. Yes, you'll want to WC everything.

 

[AlexanderMorou]

 ☒ CPU         : [URL="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115223"]Intel Core i7-980X Extreme Edition Gulftown 3.33GHz[/URL]                 $1,079.99  
 ☒ Memory      : [URL="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820104116"]Kingston HyperX 1600 (PC3 12800)[/URL] 12GB (6x2GB in two 3x2GB packages) $  361.98  
 ☒ Motherboard : [URL="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813188059"]EVGA 170-BL-E762-A1 LGA 1366 Intel X58 4-WAY SLI Classified[/URL]         $  479.99  
 ☒ PSU         : [URL="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817256054"]SILVERSTONE ST1500 1500W ATX[/URL]                                        $  364.99  
 ☒ GPU         : [URL="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130551"]EVGA 015-P3-1482-AR GeForce GTX 480[/URL]                                 $  539.99  
 ☒ SSD         : [URL="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167024"]Intel X25-M Mainstream SSDSA2MH160G2R5 2.5" 160GB[/URL]                   $  459.99  
 ☒ Case        : [URL="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811112159"]LIAN LI PC-P80 Black Aluminum ATX Full Tower Computer Case[/URL]          $  299.99  
 ☒ Optical     : [URL="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827106335"]LITE-ON 24X DVD Writer iHAS424-98 LightScribe Support[/URL]               $   31.99  
 ☒ OS          : [URL="http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16832116762"]Windows 7 Ultimate - OEM[/URL]                                            $  174.99

Those are the specs that I ended up with. I haven't purchased more than one GTX 480 yet due to desiring to get the build done (and sinking $2,000+ into a vehicle). I finished about three months ago, but decided to revisit this topic with a specific focus. I'm curious if I should attempt water-cooling on this system due to a potential future problem point. I've read that the Core i7 980x runs cool, some have said as low as 19C on air. Mine idles at 30-40C on air and as high as 70C on heavy load. Should this be a concern to me?

The other thing that concerns me is the GTX 480 generates a lot of heat (93C under load), while it's within its tolerances, if I plan on using this system for a while, I want to be sure that it's going to last.

If anyone has any suggestions, I'm all ears (or eyes in this case).

Edit:
As far as performance goes, it's everything I wanted and then some. Crysis at 1080P with High settings (probably Very High once I get another 480.) at 60-90fps. Multi-threading code I've written has been able to really push forward with this processor, I started with 6 GB of ram and should receive the next 6GB tomorrow, I had to increase it due to large scale calculations, and other software, taking more than I'd like (nearly 90% memory usage.) The only overclock thus far is a memory related OC to hit the performance indicated by the HyperX modules. I ended up with HyperX instead of Mushkin due to making the mistake of telling someone else where I was planning on getting them, and they were suddenly no longer available. ;]

Edit (2):
Figured I'd add some horribly shot images of the build. I need a digicam to take photos once I'm done for good (used my cellphone.):

I'll probably post better pictures after I put in the rest of the ram and install the V10 CPU cooler I put off installing.