Firefox May Already Be Dead

Addblock plus makes the net so much more tolerable it isn't even funny and FWIW FF with all the extra junk blocked will be FASTER (GASP!) as well in regular use than the incremental speed benefit from using Chrome. I also have flashblock in there for good measure with white list of very few sites deemed worthy of running flash.

But I am not married to a browser. I went from netscape->Opera->FF when they offered the best of what was a available. When I was an opera user. I would try the latest builds of Mozilla/FF a couple of times a year until FF finally surpassed Opera for my usage.

If chrome ever grows up and becomes a real browser, I will start trying it about every six months to see if it is ready to replace FF. It may or may not happen. I don't care, they are free and easy to change. I will always use the best one available for me today and I don't care which one it is.

So yeah, someday that might be Chrome, but from what I saw the last time I tried it, that day a long way off.
 
negated said:
You both need to try "Iron", which is produced by a company called SRWare.

Latest is 2.0.168.0.

They have a portable version (for USB thumb drives) as well.

The purpose of their browser (based on Chromium source) is to strip out all the Google-ness (calling home to google, or anywhere else!) and make it as private as you want it to be. They've also added AdBlock into the browser by default; all you have to to is add the adblock.ini from their site in to the program directory.

Works like a charm, no link to Google, and ABP integrated. It's been out for quite a while, but I'm always surprised no one is talking about it.

-S
Click to expand...

Thanks for this...I'll try this when I get home :D
 
Please, folks, don't make this all about a browser's ability to block ads - regardless of some disclaimers from some of you that you allow HardOCP/HardForum on the whitelist of such tools, it's just a red flag to the Admins and Mods, especially Kyle himself and this thread will die really quick.

As for the article this whole thread should be about, I think it's pretty presumptuous that Firefox is going anywhere. I really can't see Google pulling the plug with their backing for the Mozilla Foundation and browser effort so this guy has basically written an article of FUD that is most certain to draw hits like bees to honey. As for Slashdot, can't stand the place, never have, and I very rarely go there because... well... I can't stand the place. ;)

This whole browser bullshit just brings to mind the always and forever classic line:

"Can't we all just get along?"
 
Sabrewulf165 said:
Quite interesting... will definitely give that a spin.
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Mav451 said:
Thanks for this...I'll try this when I get home :D
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Fair warning: Unless you speak German, their user forum may be hard to navigate...they have an English section, but its controls are in German. Also, they don't update their news page all the time, but the forum has all the up to date info/downloads.

They are doing a good job though; they have fairly regular releases of Iron just after Googles major releases of Chrome. They are also actively working on a Linux variant and have some screenshots of their progress in the forums...

-S
 
Well I've been using iron for approximately 30 seconds and it's pretty sweet! Scroll speed is too slow for my liking though.
 
ku1185 said:
That said, I'd be willing to bet that it's much easier to implement customization features than it is to strip the program down to speed it up. Of course, there's the question of what effect expanding Chrome will have on its speed. This guy is obviously the expert, while I'm... a nobody. But yeah, perhaps the software industry too suffers from genetic dispositions; a la Netscape.
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Actually it is quite the opposite. Firefox gets its insane customize ability due to its architecture. Firefox itself is rendered BY FIREFOX. Pretty much everything you see is XUL and JavaScript, which is why XUL and JavaScript extensions can do so much. You can see this yourself by going copying "chrome://browser/content/browser.xul" in the URL field in Firefox.

So, to greatly speed up Firefox, one need only improve the JavaScript and rendering engine and *BAM* everything gets an equal speedup. Chrome, Opera, and Webkit browsers (safari, etc..) have nothing comparable, and to implement something similar is a huge amount of work. It is not at all easy.

The author is an idiot, as he clearly hasn't seen the Firefox 3.1 beta benchmarks with the new JavaScript engine, otherwise he wouldn't be making such statements. http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/roadmap/archives/2008/09/tracemonkey_update.html Firefox 3.1 will be using a new JavaScript engine called TraceMonkey that is already very fast.

Of course, all people ever talk about and compare is JavaScript performance, but really, how many sites do you go to that are super heavy on the JavaScript? Many major sites aren't. Even Facebook, which has a lot of JavaScript, is still limited by the available bandwidth for AJAX calls than by JavaScript performance.

And to those who don't "get" extensions, it isn't about tricking out one's browser, it is about helpful little tools that make life easier. For example, Firebug and the webdev toolbar are simply amazing if you are doing web development. I love firefox for its extensions, not because there are tons that I use, but for the one or two that I simply like. And why would I give that up to shave .02 seconds in page load performance?
 
DrVal said:
I guess I just don't get why anybody would want to trick out their browser. It's a browser, it's there to browse the internet. Who cares if there's banner ads? And I haven't seen an actual pop-up ad in forever.

Why do I want my browser to control winamp and tell me the temperature outside?

And on that note. Why for the love of all things that are holy WHY is Google/Yahoo/etc toolbars still around? Who uses these things, and WHY? How hard is it to use the search menu or, I know it's hard, but just going to www.google.com... is it that hard? Make a shortcut, you've added 1 extra click.
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I don't need my browser to control winamp as my keyboard does that already. ;)

But Mouse gestures, download status bar, personal menu, you old enough? (extension that bypasses Youtube age restriction without having to log in), Check4Change, and other extensions that have already been named are just a few of the best ones out there..

That's not what I call "tricking out." It is simply a matter of security and what allows me to be more efficient when I'm browsing the Internet.
 
Firefox is the most useful of them all with its extensions. Autopager and all the extensions make surfing the web a lot more enjoyable.
 
I don't know what idiot wrote this, but FF, as far back as it was called FB, was always the slower but better than IE. FF was never about a faster alt to IE, but a better one.
 
I didn't mind chrome, but it had some issues and things that FF did that chrome didn't.

It was enough to send me back to FF, along with my love of extensions.
 
To utilise another British idiom: A load of utter balls.
Chrome may be ever-so-slightly faster at running javascript-heavy sites (though it sounds like they're pitting the latest Chrome beta against FF3 without the new rendering engine), but it's hardly close to a usable browser.
 
Firefox is dead! Long live Internet Explorer! :D

*runs away from [H] pitchfork and torch wielders*
 
Okay, seriously, whoever posted Iron, THANK YOU. It even seems a bit faster than Google, no stupid EULA, adblock (with hardforums whitelisted of course), and is just all around fantastic. This is what Chrome should have been.
 
I'm gonna try our Iron. As for FF being dead....lol. Wow, the article write just wants some attention, that's all.
 
Iron is a damned cool browser and a good way of showing what's capable... I still prefer Firefox primarily for the addon support (some of them are just way too cool to give up), but Chrome is ok for some folks. Again, it's a case of why can't we just get along with respect to the browsers. There can never be a "best" browser for every single person, we're all too different and have too many different needs and wants.

I'm all for speed, but really... I gotta ask my infamous question once again...

"How fast is fast?"
 
Joe Average said:
Iron is a damned cool browser and a good way of showing what's capable... I still prefer Firefox primarily for the addon support (some of them are just way too cool to give up), but Chrome is ok for some folks. Again, it's a case of why can't we just get along with respect to the browsers. There can never be a "best" browser for every single person, we're all too different and have too many different needs and wants.

I'm all for speed, but really... I gotta ask my infamous question once again...

"How fast is fast?"
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I'm amazed no one has replied my post regarding the irony of the browser benchmark being called "Peacekeeper"...
 
Mav451 said:
I'm amazed no one has replied my post regarding the irony of the browser benchmark being called "Peacekeeper"...
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I had made a thread about it about an hour or so after that browser benchmark first appeared just over a week ago and made similar comments. :)
 
Chrome is faster in average use scenarios, that is correct. However, it has absolutely nothing in the way of extensions or add-ons. I don't mind waiting an extra quarter-second to load a page if it means I get no ads and can block unwanted scripts, thanks.
 
uop_apisdn said:
Careful there, DrVal. I've seen Kyle get very irate when the discussion turned to flash blocking. He posted something along the lines of, "Thanks for f***ing my business out of ad income...". A mod (MajorDomo?) locked the thread before anyone could reply. Wise move. =)

I see his side of it, but I can't stand all that distracting animation, either. I'm betting future extensions/add-ons/options/whatevers will come along for Chrome to do what people want.
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But flash really is the bane of the internet. It's annoying, it's slow and it has wonderful tendancy to crash browsers. No offence to Kyle or anyone who makes of living off of ad space but I turn off flash unless I need it on. I cannot stand all the annoying, flashing, in your face shit that flahs is used for 99% of the time.
 
I never understood the obsession with speed, a few seconds here or there doesn't really make a difference for me (maybe it's b/c i spent quite a few yrs on 56K), I'm guessing it's b/c I rarely have to wait for any page to load e.g. if I'm reading something that links to something else in the middle of an article a simple middle click opens a new tab and by the time I finish I'll have 5-6 tabs loaded. Reading the linked piece in the middle of an article is much too distracting anyways and it'll probably lead to a dozen more etc. (once I was reading a wiki on mid air refueling and I somehow ended up at quantum mechanics and fountain pens.
 
Did someone forget to tell this guy that 3.1 isn't ready yet? Not all companies are going to come out with the same improvements at the same time. I've been running nightly branch builds of 3.1 and its great.
 
Firefox 3.1 beta is almost as fast as chrome, especially if you take a bit of time to mess with about:config settings. I tried chrome for about 5 minutes before going back to firefox, I can't browse the web without extensions anymore. If it had come out in like 1999 while IE was as good as it got I might have used it (Opera was still buggy as hell and didn't display pages correctly).

Call me when Chrome gets mouse gestures, theme support, tabmixplus, noscript, adblock plus, flashblock, stylish, gmail manager, bookmark sync, FEBE, greasemokey, google preview, better gmail, downthemall, forecastfox, and countless others.

The only thing chrome has going for it agains firefox is multiple processes but firefox devs have already said that is on the agenda.
 
I use chrome more than firefox now. Chrome just starts up way faster, while firefox always seems to be updating gadgets. I just need mouse gestures and compatibility for chrome to make me fully committed.
 
DrVal said:
I never liked FF. I don't know why. It just never sat well with me.

I highly doubt it's dead or even going to die. But Chrome is here, and Chrome rocks too hard to be ignored. People don't want tricked out browsers. We want FAST browsers. (That being said, I do wish I could turn shockwave/flash off in chrome LOL).
Click to expand...

I like Adblock Plus and cannot lie, all you other brothers can deny. When those ads don't pop up in your face you get You get sprung.
 
Vermillion said:
I don't need my browser to control winamp as my keyboard does that already. ;)

But Mouse gestures, download status bar, personal menu, you old enough? (extension that bypasses Youtube age restriction without having to log in), Check4Change, and other extensions that have already been named are just a few of the best ones out there..

That's not what I call "tricking out." It is simply a matter of security and what allows me to be more efficient when I'm browsing the Internet.
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For the safest web surfing out there you need Adblock Plus and NoScript. If you play World of Warcraft then you may wanna do this.
 
DukenukemX said:
For the safest web surfing out there you need Adblock Plus and NoScript. If you play World of Warcraft then you may wanna do this.
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qtf. NoScript or something accomplishes the same thing is an absolute requirement of me using a browser.
 
Some other plugins I use (beyond the already mentioned blockers/gestures
FxIF - I can click on images and read exif info (camera, exposure etc.)
Slashdotter - enhances slashdot reading
GTranslate - Translate any text

I find the whole "Chrome is faster" nonsense to be just that, nonsense, unless the page is ridiculously full of scripting I don't see how anyone notices. I don't run benchmarks on a dail basis so performance in benchmarks is kind of irrelevant.

I did try Chrome on pages I regular visit like this one. There was NO NOTICEABLE DIFFERENCE in speed on standard web pages.

So bottom Chrome may be faster on benchmarks for speed, but that is pretty much irrelevant for me, it is way behind in the functionality benchmark.
 
Im confused. with most pages it take FF like 3.5 seconds to load. This is not as fast as Chrome? Good for you, I don't like Chrome and you can't use several plugins I like with it. =FF not dead suck it.
 
This article is ridiculous. I can make unsupported assertions and discredit differing opinions under the premise that I am clearly right too. Preposterous.
 
S1N3R6Y said:
I use chrome more than firefox now. Chrome just starts up way faster, while firefox always seems to be updating gadgets. I just need mouse gestures and compatibility for chrome to make me fully committed.
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So you are blaming FF for the time spent updating all the addon's you downloaded, then turning around and wishing chrome would add them..which would put you in the exact same position?

:confused:
 
Honestly the difference in speed between Firefox 3.1b3 with the new tracemonkey engine enable and Chrome is so minimal that most people wouldn't notice it even if they tried. That argument is not valid anymore. But I would love for Firefox to use the title bar as a tab bar like Chrome does and to spawn a separate processes for tabs.
 
IE - for testing only, I still dont trust its security, and no add-ins
Chrome, no add-ins
Firefox - less memory usage and faster than IE, more secure, and has add-ins
Opera? haahha, no.
 
I just tried the latest chrome build and again I see the same thing.

Chrome is no faster real world than Firefox. Actually on the few thing I tried it seemed to be slower.

I am latency freak. I can't have smooth scroll on in browsers because it doesn't respond as directly to input, I can't handle high input lag screens (>45ms). I am a expect instant response.

I did a couple of page loads then did a "back". Firefox snapped instantly back. Chrome did a fraction of a second redraw.

For me Firefox not only is much more flexible/configurable and has a plug in for just about everything, it actually feels faster as well.

So where are people getting this. Chrome is so much faster stuff? Do they just run bechmarks or actually visit pages?
 
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