Fire Department Faces $73K Fee From Verizon To Move Phone Cable

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Verizon wants to charge a volunteer fire department $73,000 to move a phone cable to a new location. The company says that roughly 50% of the fee is for materials, the rest is labor charges. Seems excessive to me, especially considering it is a volunteer fire department. :eek:

The Chincoteague Volunteer Fire Company has received a hefty estimate from Verizon for moving the current underground telephone cables to the other side of Deep Hole Road, where the company is slated to build a new fire station. The estimate has sparked outrage from the small island community and the fire company, itself.
 

Elios

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FYI this the FD thats famous for wild pony auctions btw

but yeah thats pretty bullshit
 

sir-gold

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I think that headline (and the summary) is a bit misleading.

From the article it looks like that $73K is the cost of relocating the main trunk line feeding the entire town.
This is about relocating some 1,100 feet of 1200-pair copper cable along with fiber optic lines serving a large portion of Chincoteague Island.
 

Darunion

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I think that headline (and the summary) is a bit misleading.

From the article it looks like that $73K is the cost of relocating the main trunk line feeding the entire town.
That crap is expensive to lay out. But yea, they make it sound like it is a small cable you would route in your yard to a dish and they are just gouging this poor FD.
 

Logan321

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Why don't they add to it instead of relocating it?
I'd bet the main telephone system for the while island is in the basement of the old building, including the emergency phone backup. If they are abandoning the old building or demolishing it, an entire new location for the phone system has to be set up, seems like. It also sounds like the method of the move was specced by the fire department itself.
 

TwistedAegis

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Doesn't seem that obscene to me, IMO. It's also an island, so in my layman's mind I would imagine such a high water table would cause additional cost.

Aside from that, Chincoteague is pretty awesome, definitely worth a visit.
 

Dead Parrot

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Sounds like someone in the FD missed a step in their plan for a new building, or didn't realize that their little phone system also contained the bulk of the cabling for the rest of the island. If the FD was in their old building long enough, it is very possible that everyone with any knowledge of what that mess of wire and blinking boxes did is retired or dead.
 

gigaxtreme1

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Sounds like someone is misrepresenting something somewhere.Switch the FD to mobile for the time being. They use VHF too.
 
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I think that headline (and the summary) is a bit misleading.

From the article it looks like that $73K is the cost of relocating the main trunk line feeding the entire town.
Why the hell would they need to move an entire trunk for just 1 telephone line across the freakin road?
 

pxc

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Why the hell would they need to move an entire trunk for just 1 telephone line across the freakin road?
That doesn't seem to be the problem. What seems to be the big unknown is: "To meet the fire department’s specifications,..."

Either Verizon is playing dumb and trying to rip off the fire department, or there are specifications that aren't as simple as moving a pair of wires across the street.
 

sir-gold

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Sounds like someone in the FD missed a step in their plan for a new building, or didn't realize that their little phone system also contained the bulk of the cabling for the rest of the island. If the FD was in their old building long enough, it is very possible that everyone with any knowledge of what that mess of wire and blinking boxes did is retired or dead.
I hate having to drag people out of nursing homes in order to get stuff fixed.

You have to deal with the constant questions like "where we are you taking me?" and "who are you and where is my nurse?", but once you sit them down in front of the mess they made 30 years ago, they usually calm down a bit.

Alzheimers is funny like that, they can't remember yesterday, but they remember 30 years ago in perfect detail. Which is ideal when you sneak them back in, and the nurses don't believe their story about going back to work for a day.
 

sir-gold

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That doesn't seem to be the problem. What seems to be the big unknown is: "To meet the fire department’s specifications,..."

Either Verizon is playing dumb and trying to rip off the fire department, or there are specifications that aren't as simple as moving a pair of wires across the street.
It's a 1000-foot 1200-pair copper bundle, plus fiber optic lines.

The specifications they are referring to is burying the new line (old line was buried), which adds a ton of cost in both materials and labor. If they did it above-ground it would be cheaper.
 

whateverer

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Aside from that, Chincoteague is pretty awesome, definitely worth a visit.
If you like fishing/boat activities. Otherwise, there's not much else to do there.

It's like they captured "small town" Midwest vacation spots, complete with "RVs as far as the eye can see" in a theme park, but put it on an ultra-humid island. Easy access to your boat, but not much else.
 
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bigdogchris

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Verizon wants all their lines buried and probably hoped the fire department was dumb enough to pay for it for them.
 

Teenyman45

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I think that headline (and the summary) is a bit misleading.

From the article it looks like that $73K is the cost of relocating the main trunk line feeding the entire town.
Also what it looked like to me. But why does the mole main trunk need to relocated for the new fire station? That was unclear from the article.
 

i960

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I'd bet the main telephone system for the while island is in the basement of the old building, including the emergency phone backup. If they are abandoning the old building or demolishing it, an entire new location for the phone system has to be set up, seems like. It also sounds like the method of the move was specced by the fire department itself.
The new location is nowhere near the old one. I think what's going on is the cable is buried in empty space along side the road of the new location, right underneath where the new building is supposed to go. So the cable is in the way and has to be relocated on the other side of the street, away from the building. So either the FD needs to choose a different location for the building, or have verizon move the lines (either underground, or above ground with poles). At least that's what I'm gathering. I googled the 2 addresses and they are pretty far apart. The wording made it seem like they are moving across the street and want existing services moved with them, but that doesn't appear to be true.
 

Merc1138

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Considering some of the quotes I've gotten from companies to run fiber from the street maybe 50 yards into a building, Verizon is offering them a bargain.
 

MrValentine

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If it really is a 1200 pair cable and some fiber cable, then 73k might be a tad high, but not to bad.

The real question is why does a small VFD have a 1200 pair POT cable ran to it?

Hell, at work we routinely pay ATT 5 figures just for installation fees. (ASE circuits). and that's no where near the hassle of a 1200 pair POT cable.
 

PhotoBobBarker

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I think i960 probably has the right idea as to what is going on. But the longest distance I can figure would be about 550 ft. I don't know where they are getting 1000ft from. If they want to play those games... I would have them move the line across the street for just the distance of the driveway of the department (so maybe 100ft or so). And maybe throw in something about "if you don't want to play ball, EVERY emergency vehicle might just have a flat tire if you ever need us". IF Logan321 is right and they have to move it because it's in the basement of the old station... I guess Verizon owes them back rent for the space... that would come to somewhere around $73,001.00...
 

nilepez

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I don't really understand why the line needs to be moved, but if you have to move the lines across the street, I assume that means they'll have to tear up the road. Never been involved in this aspect of Telecom, but it seems like a move like this would require a lot of planning well beyond the guys digging up the cables and/or laying down new ones.
 

yodafunk

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This doesn't sounds wholly unreasonable on Verizon's part. The fire dept acquired this land either knowing (or not) that there was a copper/fiber bundle running through the middle of it. If they want to construct on the top of it, then they are on hook for the cost of relocation. If their spec calls for burying the cable, then Verizon will quote them to bury it. According to the article, Verizon mentioned being flexible to other options if the city/FD was willing to change their spec.

Seems to me you are used to seeing the evil Verizon does (and they do plenty), but I just don't see it here.
 

i960

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Considering some of the quotes I've gotten from companies to run fiber from the street maybe 50 yards into a building, Verizon is offering them a bargain.
This. My company was quoted $24k by AT&T to run fiber into one of our locations from across the street. They waived the fee if we signed a 2 year contract. I'm sure they ate the cost for a large part of those 2 years.
 

BadAim

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That's a high price, but I don't know the soil conditions in the area. if they would encounter lots of rock during the directional bore, it could increase the cost. That said, I would hire an independent contractor, and then resell usage of the cable back to Verizon.
 

MajorDomo

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Price doesn't sound too out of line from my experience. I made an inquiry on the cost of relocating a main trunk line no further than 25' off one of our lots when I was a project manager. Slam dunk since the soil is sandy, no obstructions and on top of that it was a main junction terminal. The answer was over $17K.
 

Darunion

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Price doesn't sound too out of line from my experience. I made an inquiry on the cost of relocating a main trunk line no further than 25' off one of our lots when I was a project manager. Slam dunk since the soil is sandy, no obstructions and on top of that it was a main junction terminal. The answer was over $17K.
But but, verizon is evil and this poor fire department!

Anyone else getting so sick of journalists spinning stories to create a good guy and bad guy when the situation doesn't actually call for such a thing?

Kind of a crappy island anyways, and that bridge you drive on to get there, that can just go ahead and F**k off. Bridges shouldn't be that long lol.
 

nilepez

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But but, verizon is evil and this poor fire department!
Anyone else getting so sick of journalists spinning stories to create a good guy and bad guy when the situation doesn't actually call for such a thing?
Kind of a crappy island anyways, and that bridge you drive on to get there, that can just go ahead and F**k off. Bridges shouldn't be that long lol.
All of those allegations are direct quotes from the fire department and other officials, so the journalist didn't spin jack.
 

Darunion

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All of those allegations are direct quotes from the fire department and other officials, so the journalist didn't spin jack.
I didn't say lie, I said spun. Please read.

Maybe they should just build in a different spot instead of on top of trunk lines feeding the island?

After reading several articles on this and not finding anything from verizon, it is just a giant pity party about the poor fire department and their struggle with this. I know, don't built on someones trunk lines.
 

Elios

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If you like fishing/boat activities. Otherwise, there's not much else to do there.

It's like they captured "small town" Midwest vacation spots, complete with "RVs as far as the eye can see" in a theme park, but put it on an ultra-humid island. Easy access to your boat, but not much else.
Ocean City Maryland is only a hour or 2 north it really a is a nice place
 

whateverer

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Ocean City Maryland is only a hour or 2 north it really a is a nice place
Yeah, but if you're going to Ocean City, why waste a day?

There's not much to see and do in Chincoteague, unless you own a boat, and have planned your trip in-advance. Because small town with a short list of set-in-stone planned events for visitors. The chance of you coming for a single day on-the-way to OC, and actually doing something interesting is nearly impossible.

Don't believe me? Read the excitement of strictly-scheduled small-town life right here!

http://www.chincoteaguechamber.com/events

If you're not the kind of person to make your own fun, preferably on your boat, you have no business going. It's just another gimmicky small town "destination", with wild ponies once a freakin year.
 
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nilepez

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All of those allegations are direct quotes from the fire department and other officials, so the journalist didn't spin jack.
I didn't say lie, I said spun. Please read.
Maybe they should just build in a different spot instead of on top of trunk lines feeding the island?
After reading several articles on this and not finding anything from verizon, it is just a giant pity party about the poor fire department and their struggle with this. I know, don't built on someones trunk lines.
And I didn't say anything about lying. The author didn't spin jack. They quoted Verizon (so I don't know how you didn't find anything from Verizon) and they quoted people associated with the fire department.

A Verizon Representative said:
“The Chincoteague fire department asked Verizon to relocate telephone network equipment from where they intend to build a new fire station," said Michael Murphy, public relations manager for Verizon.

“What’s been missing from the story about the cost to complete the work is this: we’re not talking about moving a phone line or two. This is about relocating some 1,100 feet of 1200-pair copper cable along with fiber optic lines serving a large portion of Chincoteague Island. To meet the fire department’s specifications, we proposed burying those cables - an expensive process - but there are other ways to accomplish this. We’ll consider any design changes they are willing to make to reduce costs or lessen the impact to the island’s telecom equipment.”
 

Krab

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If you're not the kind of person to make your own fun, preferably on your boat, you have no business going. It's just another gimmicky small town "destination", with wild ponies once a freakin year.
I disagree. Been there and enjoyed it. If you are an ADD kid who needs constant stimulation I don't know you went there in the first place.
 

flashoverride

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73k doesn't sound too bad. Let's see, a bit of back of the envelope here...

1100' of 1200 pair - that comes on reels about 250' a piece, so 5 reels, so you're looking at at least 4 1200 pair splice jobs and 2 1200 pair terminations - unless you're splicing in the existing termination points, which would be 6 splice jobs.
1100' of fiber - they don't specify strand count, but I'd assume a 48 strand. Honestly you can pull that off one reel, so no splices here unless you splice in the term point. I would want avoid that - anyplace you can introduce loss - so you're looking at 96 fiber terminations.
4-6 Armadillo splice cases
If they're using MS2 splicers, each strip takes 25 pair, so 48 strips per splice, so 192-288 strips
trenching/directional bore
Unknown if they are direct burying the cable; I wouldn't if I could avoid it, but that's another 1100' of 6" schedule 80 PVC and 4 manholes.

For terminations... they're gonna want a hot cut, so you'd terminate the new run and jumper it over. 66 blocks, looking at 96, 48 per term. You could get away with 48 if you terminated on both sides. 110s are a bit denser at a hundred pair, so 12 per end. If you're terminating into a frame it gets different; likely one side of this is a CO, so that'd get spliced into the frame down in a cable vault. Fiber wise you're looking at a fiber tray, maybe 4 plates, per side.


1200 pair is about 5 and a half pounds per foot, so around 3 tons of cable + reels. Not sure what those weigh but they're pretty heavy. 48 strand is a lot lighter, but you're still looking at several hundred pounds, maybe 1,000. Splice cases are 15-20 pounds a whack, more if they use stainless steel (a lot more). Total weight for all the materials alone might come in around 5 tons for a direct bury.
 

B00nie

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Why do they even bother with the copper anymore? Our house has that antiquated piece of string hanging on the side but hasn't been used in a decade.
 

Darunion

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I feel like it really would come down to who is legally responsible for it. If the cable isn't allowed to be where it is then it could fall on Verizon unless they are grandfathered in. I'm the end it's a cost of building and should have just been either taken care of or denied instead of crying to the media that it is unfair to charge them. Just wait until it actually has to move, could take a long time depending on their workload in that region, I imagine they don't employ as many for that type of work.
 

Riccochet

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$73k to re-run a 1200 strand line and some fiber? That's a steal.

When I was looking at houses we found one we liked, but there was no cable/internet in the development. Local cable company wanted $80k to bring service 1/4 mile to the house. And that was for aerial pole cabling. Granted it was fiber.
 

whateverer

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I disagree. Been there and enjoyed it. If you are an ADD kid who needs constant stimulation I don't know you went there in the first place.
Went there for a friend's vow renewal. Not planning on going back.

Said friend is the type of person who is intense in day-to-day, and just need to get away from it all. She wants her vacations uncomplicated, different locale, which is why she owns an RV and has a reserved spot in one of the campgrounds.

This makes no sense to me, because if I want to relax, I can do it at home with a "staycation" :D

In my day-to-day life, I'm not ADD. I can put up with the same shit for weeks, and am as laid-back as they come. Just when I go "on vacation," I want to do something different. And I don't want to live my life any more scheduled than it has to be. Chincoteague is neither of those.

Jyst know before you send someone off to there.
 
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HardOCP News

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Okay, the reason I personally thought this was a big deal ISN'T whether or not $73K is worth it...it's because Verizon, a company with almost $140 billion in revenue last year, could DONATE the cost of the bill to a VOLUNTEER fire department. It would be a tax write off, it would be good publicity and you wouldn't have this shit happen.

That's all I'm saying.
 
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I feel like it really would come down to who is legally responsible for it. If the cable isn't allowed to be where it is then it could fall on Verizon unless they are grandfathered in. I'm the end it's a cost of building and should have just been either taken care of or denied instead of crying to the media that it is unfair to charge them. Just wait until it actually has to move, could take a long time depending on their workload in that region, I imagine they don't employ as many for that type of work.
Aren't they supposed to build these things on easements to avoid this issue?
 
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