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Finally Nvidia comes back

Originally posted by dderidex
But, fill-rate ALWAYS will be King.

Shaders are great, but they are only really practical as 'special effects'. Filters, haze, blur, lighting, etc.

All that is of no use with no objects to work with.

And 3d objects are always (well, from now on - they didn't originally in games) going to have textures on them. And your screen is full of 3d objects...all covered in textures....

It takes very, VERY heavy use of shaders to overcome the inherent heavy usage of textures and polygons in any 3d scene.
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yes, for now, fillrate is king

i was just indicating that in the future it may not be, it is possible to replace textures and polygons with vertex and pixel shaders, any game doing this most likely won't be around for quite a while, well after DirectX Next (DX10) with shader model 4.0

my memory bandwidth comment still stands as well as relevent to current games
 
Does it really Matter Everone cheats in bench's anyway ....
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No thats wrong Nvidia is the only company whose drivers detect 3dmark2003 and run altered code(cheating code). Truth hurts they're cheating dogs.
 
I'll be interested to see what the R420 has to offer.

ATI had about a 6 month jump (at least) on Nvidia with their R300 architecture compared to Nvidia's NV35. Since then, they have just released revisions of that architecture with 9800pro/XT.

So ATI has had a full 6 months to tweak, perfect and optimize their R420 architecture, while Nvidia was scrambling to release their NV30 and revisions to that architecture.

I think this is going to be a huge advantage for ATI.
 
Originally posted by Orbius
No thats wrong Nvidia is the only company whose drivers detect 3dmark2003 and run altered code(cheating code). Truth hurts they're cheating dogs.
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Actually ATI was caught at it as well with the whole Quake/Quak Issue
 
Hey if it is as reported badass.... I dont give a rats ass who makes the best card...just make it. I currently own a 9800pro and trust me if Nvidia comes out with a kick butt card my machine will have it within it. Im just happy ati took the lead to make the giant nvidia get serious again.... war war war love it cuz we the consumers win.
 
Originally posted by mpm
I'll be interested to see what the R420 has to offer.

ATI had about a 6 month jump (at least) on Nvidia with their R300 architecture compared to Nvidia's NV35. Since then, they have just released revisions of that architecture with 9800pro/XT.

So ATI has had a full 6 months to tweak, perfect and optimize their R420 architecture, while Nvidia was scrambling to release their NV30 and revisions to that architecture.

I think this is going to be a huge advantage for ATI.
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How do you know NVIDIA hasn't been working on their next architecture the whole time?
 
Both companies have multiple teams working simultaneously. The R420 and the NV40 have been in development for MUCH longer than 6 months.
 
Originally posted by @trapine
..........................
And if your gonna Turn AA and AF off then why in hell even bother buying a topend graphics card:rolleyes: ...............
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Some people prefer higher resolution and higher frame rate, especially in FPS. The high resolution equals out the eyecandy of AA/AF, while allowing a greater number of frames.

Now you've learned something today.
 
I hope NVIDIA and ATI both come through with their next-gen parts. I haven't had any problems with either company's products.
 
Actually ATI was caught at it as well with the whole Quake/Quak Issue
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ATi claimed it was a bug in the driver and I tend to believe them as Quake 3 scores actually IMPROVED down the road without the 'hack'. Regardless there was a big stink and they were rightly called out about it.

Nvidia purposefully reduces precision and cheats their asses off in 3dmark2003, everyone knows they cheat and despite being called out by every major site and 3dmark for cheating they continue to do so.

Perhaps it doesnt bother you, but it does me, perhaps I am more honest than you?
 
Originally posted by Shane
Hey if it is as reported badass.... I dont give a rats ass who makes the best card...just make it. I currently own a 9800pro and trust me if Nvidia comes out with a kick butt card my machine will have it within it. Im just happy ati took the lead to make the giant nvidia get serious again.... war war war love it cuz we the consumers win.
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Well said, I totally agree.

And to several people in this thread: Can't we have at least one conversation, or at very least some old fasion speculative fun, about an upcoming product without bringing up benchmark cheats or quack cheat? It gets tiring watching a bunch of geeks with no real issues in thier lives debate over such tired Jerry Springer'esque topics. Instead of wasting all of your time trying to find every single con in every single product in an attempt for superiority, why not look for every single pro?
 
Until NVidia gets off its high horse and follows MS DX specs to the letter, what does it matter.... "oh gee, my geforce 6000 blows away your ati 10000" even if the ati is running dx 10 and the geforce is only dx 9.
 
Some people prefer higher resolution and higher frame rate, especially in FPS. The high resolution equals out the eyecandy of AA/AF, while allowing a greater number of frames.

Now you've learned something today.
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:p :p :p lmfao
 
Heres some more ingredients for the stew, ATi spoke about its R420:

"This(time) has given us a chance to really refine our next-generation architecture and focus more transistors on raw processing power, so we can deliver a huge leap in performance (like we did last year with the Radeon 9700 Pro). There is more, of course, but you'll have to wait just a little longer to hear about that."
 
im waiting for the NV40 and RV420 by the time they are released ill get the fastest out of the whole lot, time to get my own back from these peeps with faster cards than I have at the moment

was the same with the Radeon 9700 launch, I grabbed one as soon it was released, it was that good
 
I tend to want to buy older products since I'm a broke bastard so I still want a brand new radeon 9100. :D it'd pwn half the FX line :p anyhow. (it's kinda sad that an old ass 9100 pwns a brand new fx 5200)... rather sad actually.

~Ada
 
Originally posted by pakotlar
sadly it's also called lying.
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Guys did you hear about this thing called Oxyclean? They guarantee that it'll get any stain out! :rolleyes:

Marketing is based on hyping your product to the point that people run out to buy it. If you honestly think any marketing corporation doesn't lie, then you might be missing a brain, my good man.
 
Originally posted by CleanSlate
I tend to want to buy older products since I'm a broke bastard so I still want a brand new radeon 9100. :D it'd pwn half the FX line :p anyhow. (it's kinda sad that an old ass 9100 pwns a brand new fx 5200)... rather sad actually.

~Ada
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Sad how it will own a 9600se too?
 
Remember way back last year when those preliminary benchies came out for HL2? And that they showed ATi stomping the crap out of Nvidia? Remember how Nvidia cards paled in comparison and that the code for the game would have to be reoptimized to give better performance to them?

Perhpaps this latest marketing move is banking on that code optimization primarily, with a much smaller performance increase coming from increased speeds on the card itself.....

just my 2 cents
 
Originally posted by jhtevans
Remember way back last year when those preliminary benchies came out for HL2? And that they showed ATi stomping the crap out of Nvidia? Remember how Nvidia cards paled in comparison and that the code for the game would have to be reoptimized to give better performance to them?

Perhpaps this latest marketing move is banking on that code optimization primarily, with a much smaller performance increase coming from increased speeds on the card itself.....

just my 2 cents
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A code optimization is a tad different than an architecture change. Oh, and remember even before HL2 with the Doom3 demo showing NVIDIA stomping the crap out of ATI? Those "benchmarks" are called marketing hype.
 
Originally posted by jhtevans
Remember way back last year when those preliminary benchies came out for HL2? And that they showed ATi stomping the crap out of Nvidia? ...............
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$6 million+ will get you one hell of a slideshow!
 
Originally posted by obs
A code optimization is a tad different than an architecture change. Oh, and remember even before HL2 with the Doom3 demo showing NVIDIA stomping the crap out of ATI? Those "benchmarks" are called marketing hype.
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NO. Those benchmarks are called *GASP!* benchmarks.

Let me guess, the DOOM3 benches are marketing but the HL2 benches are perfectly valid right even though as a company Id is far more trusthworthy than Valve 'done by Sept 30 even though our leaked compilable code shows the opposite'.

:rolleyes:
 
Originally posted by Vagrant Zero
NO. Those benchmarks are called *GASP!* benchmarks.

Let me guess, the DOOM3 benches are marketing but the HL2 benches are perfectly valid right even though as a company Id is far more trusthworthy than Valve 'done by Sept 30 even though our leaked compilable code shows the opposite'.

:rolleyes:
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And what is your basis on this? Sorry, but both the Doom3 and HL2 scores are nothing but marketing hype by ATI and NVIDIA to push their cards. The developers couldn't give two shits if people knew which card performed better 6+ months before the game is released. Also, ATI and NVIDIA made damn sure that the people "benchmarking" could do nothing but push a button on a locked box.
 
Originally posted by Vagrant Zero
NO. Those benchmarks are called *GASP!* benchmarks.

Let me guess, the DOOM3 benches are marketing but the HL2 benches are perfectly valid right even though as a company Id is far more trusthworthy than Valve 'done by Sept 30 even though our leaked compilable code shows the opposite'.

:rolleyes:
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It's really getting to the point of anything nvidia does is instantly put into the ground by the ATi zealots around here.
 
Originally posted by WalteRr
Guys did you hear about this thing called Oxyclean? They guarantee that it'll get any stain out! :rolleyes:

Marketing is based on hyping your product to the point that people run out to buy it. If you honestly think any marketing corporation doesn't lie, then you might be missing a brain, my good man.
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Marketing has to walk the fine line of pushing their own product as the best solution without lying. If they lie about the performance directly they can be held accountable for fraud.
Thats one of those funny things... lets say, for instance, Intel's fastest CPU was only 2.8GHz right now, which is obviously outperformed by AMD's Athlon 64/FX line my a decent margin. Intel can make the honest claim of the fastest x86 CPU available based on pure clockspeed, disregarding performance, and not be fraudulent. If they showed benches that had been doctored, they've gone the other way, opened the door to litigation.

as my wife plainly put it just a moment ago reading over my shoulder, marketing is based entirely on half truths. Not outright lies.
Tell the best, leave out the rest. The competition will call out your failures for you.
 
Originally posted by WalteRr
Guys did you hear about this thing called Oxyclean? They guarantee that it'll get any stain out! :rolleyes:

Marketing is based on hyping your product to the point that people run out to buy it. If you honestly think any marketing corporation doesn't lie, then you might be missing a brain, my good man.
Click to expand...

You are lumping the crap with the good stuff. Though ATI may not be perfect, they for example are more often honest with their marketing performance estimates. This is a case where marketing does not equal lying. Most companies advertise their products based on technical specs (which, under law cannot be falsified) and then make performance stipulations based on those figures. Unfortunately, in the computer business things get cloudy. A company in a desperate situation may make bogus performance claims based on something like this: our product is twice as fast as the competition because run at twice the clockspeed! Reminiscent of anyone? :rolleyes: And yes I think there are plenty of corporations that don't LIE, but market their products accurately. The point is when your product holds its own weight you don't need to lie.

p.s: While there are marketing corporations, we're not talking about them. AD agencies do not equal computer companies. Yeah, sure I guess, I MIGHT be missing a brain. good point!:rolleyes: :p
 
Nvidia lost me already...

For some reason, after I got ATI product...

I really really hate Nvidia...
 
that page is has far too many pop ups.

and yeah, i'm getting annoyed by all this pre-hype. let the product speak for itself. i'm no longer ever going to believe hype ever again.
 
i dont give a fuck what the benchmarks say.. EVERYONE CHEATS EVEN I CHEAT ON MY MATH TESTS. lets just see what they do when the real games come out. and thats my mindless yammer
 
Originally posted by Badger_sly
$6 million+ will get you one hell of a slideshow!
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Typical response from you.

"It's not the hardware, they made HL2 slow on purpose on nVidia hardware".

Nice conspiracy theory, with zero proof of anything to back it up.
 
I'm just glad these cards are starting to GET some hype, I've been waiting for the next gen card since I built my system last year and I'm dying to get whatever hit's the market first! Well, ok, I won't do that, but can you feel my pain?

;)
 
Its funny how a video card is be faster(7x) on a more intense(HL2) game and slower(4x) on a less intense(D3) game...:rolleyes:
 
I love this type of thread. Speculation is always fun but the fact remains: We won't know jack until the hardware and the games in question are available.

If the past tells us anything, it is that a new videocards very rarely live up to the pre-release hype. IMHO the two most recent were the orginal geforce and the 9700 pro.

While I currently lean towards ATi, I want nothing more than to see nvidia come out with a card with all the teeth and attitude the marketing spinsters claim. As it has been said many times, competition is the lifeblood of the consumer.
 
Originally posted by fallguy
Typical response from you.

"It's not the hardware, they made HL2 slow on purpose on nVidia hardware".

Nice conspiracy theory, with zero proof of anything to back it up.
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IIRC, it was infact a slideshow. Some sort of Power Point presentation or something right?

I think you read too far into that statement.
 
Originally posted by ApaThy_NeXT2
Its funny how a video card is be faster(7x) on a more intense(HL2) game and slower(4x) on a less intense(D3) game...:rolleyes:
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That sounds perfectly reasonable to me. ATI is like that to an extent already, if you compare them to nVidia. If you look at what everyone has been saying here for a long time, ATI's Flagships are currently faster at DX9 games than Nvidia, but remove the DX9 features(or severely limit them) and the speed advatage diminishes.

If you dedicate a portion of your card to DX9 specific features, but only nominally increase the overall speed of it. Then you will see the exact scenerio you yourself said.
 
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