Finally building custom loop: need help

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jyi786

Supreme [H]ardness
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So now I am serious about moving to watercooling. From another thread I had, I will be moving the rad/reservoir completely away from the computer, possibly in another room.
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1872855

Here is my rig.

i7 2600K @ 4.4Ghz
Asus P8Z68 Deluxe Gen/3
32GB Corsair RAM
MSI GTX 980 Ti 6G Gaming
XFX 1250W PSU
Samsung 830 Pro SSD (512GB)
Samsung 850 Pro SSD (512GB + 1TB)

Here are the water cooling components I have settled on. Price is not a concern for me.

CPU block: EK-Supremacy EVO Elite Edition - Intel 115x
GPU block: EK-FC980 MSI full cover block + backplate
Pump/reservoir combo: Twin D5 Dual Bay Reservoir/Pump Combo
Radiator: MORA 3 Pro
Tubing: PrimoChill PrimoFlex 1/2" ID tubing
Fittings for blocks:
3 x QD3 Female Quick Disconnect No-Spill Coupling, Male Threaded G 1/4 BSPP
3 x QD3 Male Quick Disconnect No-Spill Coupling, Compression for 13mm x 19mm (1/2in x 3/4in)
5 x EK-ACF Fitting 13/19mm - Nickel. 1 for the CPU block, 2 for the pump/res combo, and 2 for the MORA 3 radiator.
Liquid: Distilled water + kill coil.
Fans: 6 x PH-F140HP-II. Or maybe all 9?

Plan is to use the QDCs at the following locations.

1 x QDC at inlet of CPU block
Regular compression fitting from CPU block to GPU block
1 x QDC at inlet of GPU block
1 x QDC at outlet of GPU block

This configuration will net me the ability to isolate the CPU from the GPU or vice versa if I so wanted to.

The flow direction will be as follows:

Pumps (2 in series)/res combo > rad > CPU > GPU

Thanks in advance, and I'd appreciate any input and suggestions.
 
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Loop order really doesn't matter much, just keep the flow smooth as in fewer fitting and tube bends = better. The temperature or the water will be about equal throughout the loop if you have halfway decent flow, and double pumps will definitely provide that. Most high-end blocks perform within a degree of each other, so get what you like. Not trying to sound snarky, but the listed roundup below is probably the most up to date (or at least I haven't found any newer). As far as the dual DDC bay- if you are going to have the rads outside, I’d think that thy will be the bleed / fill point and you don’t need a bayres, but that’s like, an opinion, man.

Sounds like a cool setup- how are far are you planning to run the rads from the computer?


http://www.overclock.net/t/1505481/summer-water-block-round-up-2014
 
DWolvin said:
Sounds like a cool setup- how are far are you planning to run the rads from the computer?
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info man. Much appreciated.

I plan to have the rad/res as far as 15-20 feet away from the computer, and most likely more, perhaps on an entirely different floor, or in an adjacent room.

A few other things I've been reading up on. Please correct me anywhere I am wrong.

1. If the GPU block is nickel, it means that I will need to have the same material for the CPU block to prevent ionizing of the metals.
2. Once I get all the components, I will have to flush the rads before putting it into service. Will I have to do the same for the blocks?
 
The nickel plating is only on the outside of the block and doesn't come in contact with the water, the inside of the block is still copper.
 
dylskee said:
The nickel plating is only on the outside of the block and doesn't come in contact with the water, the inside of the block is still copper.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the correction; you're right. They're all copper blocks on the inside.

I've updated the OP with all the components that I think are right for this build. Let me know if you guys have any other suggestions.

Thanks!
 
I would suggest using Laing D5 pumps (Alphacool VPP655, Koolance PMP-450, etc). In my experience they're far more durable than the DDC pumps. I would also use a combined pump/reservoir unit. You always want the pump(s) to be immediately after the reservoir, close to it.
 
Tsumi said:
I would suggest using Laing D5 pumps (Alphacool VPP655, Koolance PMP-450, etc). In my experience they're far more durable than the DDC pumps. I would also use a combined pump/reservoir unit. You always want the pump(s) to be immediately after the reservoir, close to it.
Click to expand...

How about using something like this externally?
http://www.xs-pc.com/water-pumps/twin-d5-dual-bay-reservoirpump-combo

According to those specs, it says that max head delivery is about 23ft. Do you think that would be enough to move the rad/res/pump externally away as far as I would want to (15-20 ft. or more)?
 
Pump ratings, in feet, is the amount of lift (called head, in pump lingo) that the pump can provide. You can convert that from feet to psi and see the amount of plumbing restriction (often called head loss).

23ft of pump head roughly equates to a backpressure of 10 psi of backpressure. The pump will circulate water not quite linearly at, it's rated GPM at 0psi (whatever that number is, it may actually specifiy a different psi than 0, but if it's not given, assume 0) up to 0 gpm at it's maximum head psi.

In a closed loop system, the amount of piping/tubing going up equals the amount going down, so height cancels out, and you are just looking at backpressure (head loss). Now, backpressure will depend on the number of items in your loop, the number of bends in your tubing, the radius of the bends in your tubing, and the size of your tubing. The length of the tubing doesn't really matter, it's flow resistance does.
More bends = more backpressure
Tighter bends = more backpressure
Each item (block, rad) you have in series in your loop = more backpressure
Smaller tubing = more backpressure

You can think of this just like resistance in a DC circuit really, where flow is current and pressure is voltage, and resistance is the head loss of each component.

1/2: tubing for a computer system is a good size, the amount of head loss, at the flow rates you are talking about, will be minimal, so long as your tubing has smooth all bends and no kinks, and you use a hard fittings (90s and 45s) where you need tighter turns.

Thermodynamically, you don't need a huge flow rate. Flow rate in a thermal system will be directly related to the difference in temperature in the water across a heat changing device.

The actual equations can be found here, you could calculate it before hand if you wanted to:
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/conductive-heat-transfer-d_428.html

You do usually want to put a pump right after the reservoir. The reason being that a centrifugal pump (which is what most of these are) will only work if it's primed. If there is any air at all in the pump, it will be air-bound and not pump well at all. There's also a term called Net Positive Suction, which won't really apply in a small computer system, but you'll see that on larger pumps, and that's the amount of pressure needed at the inlet of the pump - so on larger systems you'll see the reservoir is either pressurized or elevated. Also, in heating service (and this counts as heating service, as opposed to refrigeration), pumps are typically placed in the cold side of the plumbing (before whatever is adding heat, or after whatever is removing it).

In your case, I would put a pump inside the case before the water blocks. If you are going to use a second pump (I don't know that it would be necessary, but it won't hurt and definitely adds reliability) I would consider putting it externally, after the radiators, and you may want to consider dual reservoirs - one before any pump in the loop.

I had set up a similar loop once before, using a reserator externally on about 8ft of tubing. It did not require a second pump, the reserator had an internal pump, but I didn't run it because it wasn't needed. One Koolance PMP-400 carried that, a GPU block, a CPU block, a 240mm radiator, and the extra tubing and reserator plenty fine, and that had a maximum flow rate of 1.9 gpm.I also used 1/2" tubing. I used the reserator as the reservoir, and the pump was located inside the case, on the return line coming back into the case from the reserator.

The bitch of having a system like that, are the lines going external from the case. If you ever want to move your computer (which for me wasn't often, but often enough) - you either are moving your case/external stuff like a slinky by yourself, need a second person to wrangle with the external cooling parts, or you need some sort of disconnection in your tubing. I tried using some sealing quick disconnects at my case, they did work ok. Despite being labeled as self-sealing, they would still leak a bit while you are removing or installing lines.
 
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Brian_B said:
In your case, I would put a pump inside the case before the water blocks. If you are going to use a second pump (I don't know that it would be necessary, but it won't hurt and definitely adds reliability) I would consider putting it externally, after the radiators, and you may want to consider dual reservoirs - one before any pump in the loop.

I had set up a similar loop once before, using a reserator externally on about 8ft of tubing. It did not require a second pump, the reserator had an internal pump, but I didn't run it because it wasn't needed. One Koolance PMP-400 carried that, a GPU block, a CPU block, a 240mm radiator, and the extra tubing and reserator plenty fine, and that had a maximum flow rate of 1.9 gpm.I also used 1/2" tubing. I used the reserator as the reservoir, and the pump was located inside the case, on the return line coming back into the case from the reserator.

The bitch of having a system like that, are the lines going external from the case. If you ever want to move your computer (which for me wasn't often, but often enough) - you either are moving your case/external stuff like a slinky by yourself, need a second person to wrangle with the external cooling parts, or you need some sort of disconnection in your tubing. I tried using some sealing quick disconnects at my case, they did work ok. Despite being labeled as self-sealing, they would still leak a bit while you are removing or installing lines.
Click to expand...

One of the reasons I'm doing this is to get noise completely away from the computer. Pumps are a source of noise that I know will annoy me, so it, along with the rads, fans, and reservoir, will be moved as far away from the computer I can get it.

As for the tubing, I aim to resolve the issue you describe by using two QDCs inline right where they enter the case.
 
Why not just put the entire computer in the other room and run longer display port or hdmi and USB cables to your desk? I've done that for having a PC in the garage due to sawdust and other junk and I can't hear the PC at all ;)
 
Eickst said:
Why not just put the entire computer in the other room and run longer display port or hdmi and USB cables to your desk? I've done that for having a PC in the garage due to sawdust and other junk and I can't hear the PC at all ;)
Click to expand...

This is probably the 10th time someone has recommended this. :D

I'm going to copy/paste my response to this from the original thread linked in the OP:

If you read earlier in this thread, I noted that I didn't want to do that because it doesn't solve the issue of actually letting components run cooler. My GPU runs about 84C full load. I want to cut that in half. Simply moving the system to another room won't help me achieve that goal.
Click to expand...
 
Move the system and watercool it. No need for crazy long tubing runs and being worried about all that.
 
Tsumi said:
Move the system and watercool it. No need for crazy long tubing runs and being worried about all that.
Click to expand...
That's what I was implying in my post. Go nuts on water cooling the PC just move the PC. A lot easier safer and more reliable to just extend the kvm
 
Yep. You can also run less radiators with more powerful fans.
 
Also as a side note- the pump is quiet if decoupled, mine sits on some Velcro dots on top of the power supply, and I can't hear it over the supplys' fan...
 
In my case, I cannot relocate the actual computer. :(

My rig is among other things a DAW. For music production, the centerpiece of my studio (the Yamaha Motif XS 8) uses a Firewire connection. Unfortunately, it has extremely stringent requirements for the Firewire. It has to be a certain chipset, and the cable cannot be more than 6m (or something like that, I forget the exact number). In addition, the cable has to be a high quality/gauge cable, not some cheapo Firewire. Trust me, I've tried extending it already either by using a longer cable or repeater boxes, and they all end up in abject failure. I can't use any Firewire repeater box either because it means they use extra chipsets, which by their very nature introduce DPC latency, thereby screwing up the audio via way of clicks and pops, or audio latency which makes realtime recording impossible.

Bottom line, I want to have my cake and eat it too. If I do watercooling, I have to keep the computer close by. The reason I don't want to do the watercooling in the case (locally) is because I'll already have to concede fan and pump noise. The computer is already quiet on air idle, but is too hot (especially the video card) and loud at load.
 
DWolvin said:
Also as a side note- the pump is quiet if decoupled, mine sits on some Velcro dots on top of the power supply, and I can't hear it over the supplys' fan...
Click to expand...

That's pretty much what I did too - floated it on some felt pads. Drastically cut down the noise the pump made.

You can also get a reservoir with the pump inside the reservoir - the water volume helps cut down on noise that way.
 
I would start with trying to keep the watercooling within your case. Do as what was suggested, decouple the pump. Opt for D5 PWM pumps. Test whether or not they bother you. If they do, then go on and buy the long tubing and fittings you would need to extend the setup to a different room.
 
Ok, so first, I'll try to keep the WC loop as close to the system as possible Got it.

Anyone have any pointers on which components I should flush when I get the parts, and what would be the best way to go about doing it? I've read up on using vinegar, boiling distilled water, and some other things. What would you all recommend?
 
As far as I know, the only component that actually needs a good flushing is the radiator. The blocks can be taken apart and visually inspected whether or not they need cleaning.
 
^
My block ran fine for a year, but I did flush the rad with warm water until noting more came out, and then a pair of distilled rinses... I rinsed the pump assy also, but that was just an excuse to pull it apart to see the inside. :)
 
Alright, update on this.

Sort of deviates from my original intention, but clarifies my thoughts on not wanting to watercool inside the PC.

Today I went out, got a NZXT Kraken G1 and a Corsair H90 AIO. Cheap compared to my project: it was only $150.00, whereas my project will be almost $1200.00. So I thought as an experiment, why the heck not.

Because of the fact that my Corsair 600T case has 120mm fan output at the rear, I also had to get a 120mm to 140mm adapter. I went ahead and replaced the MSI heatsink/fan, got everything mounted in my case, and started testing.

Here are the temps I used to get for the GPU on air:

Idle: 49C
Load: 86C

With the H90 AIO on my GPU, here are the temps I now get:

Idle: 26~33C
Load: 56C

The load was a full 30C improvement. That being said, this whole escapade underscores my intent of not watercooling inside the PC.

Doing this little experiment, I basically added another 3 noise sources into the computer: 2 fans (one for the radiator and one for the Kraken) and 1 pump. Now, the pump is indeed quiet enough for it not to be problematic, although very infrequently, I can hear water sloshing and pinging. When it doesn't do this, it's dead silent and is almost impossible to be discernible. However, the "whoosh" of the additional fans grate on my nerves, even though I've set them to PWM and are controlling them with the motherboard.

I know that it'll be different with the project as I laid it out, since the radiator is going to be the Mo-RA, which means it'll be external. However, if I need to keep it in close proximity to the computer, it is not going to be acceptable for my goals of silence, given what I just did with the above experiment. I'll have to get all the fans out of the computer completely, save 2: one for intake and one for exhaust to keep the board components cool.
 
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Get some PWM Gentle Typhoons and try them out. Fans vary wildly in quality and noise emitted.
 
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