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Finalizing Perfect Intel Setup (Need Advice)

S

Skooga

n00b
Joined
Jul 23, 2005
Messages
14
I am planning on building a very nice, overclockable system that will last me a couple years. Here are the components:

MotherBoard - ASUS P5WD2 Premium Socket T (LGA 775) Intel 955X ATX Intel Motherboard - Retail
(Really want to stick with this motherboard for overclockablitiy and features)
CPU - intel Pentium 4 630 Prescott 800MHz FSB LGA 775 EM64T Processor Model BX80547PG3000F - Retail
(Researched and found out this is a great and stable overclocking CPU)
Video Card - XFX PVT45GUDF3 Geforce 6800GT 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail
(I want a decent video card and have read reviews on how good this is)
Memory - 2x CORSAIR XMS 512MB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Unbuffered System Memory Model CM2X512A-6400 - Retail
(Is this memory worth it and is 1GB enough to run the system I have?)
Hard Drives - 2x Maxtor DiamondMax 10 6B250S0 250GB 7200 RPM Serial ATA150 Hard Drive - OEM
(Want to Raid 2 of these and have read the 16MB cache is better then 10k Raptors)
Heat Sink - THERMALRIGHT XP-120 Heatsink - Retail
(Read that this is a very nice heatsink and cools your system 10 degrees or so)
Fan for Heat Sink - Thermaltake A2018 120mm 1 Ball 1 Sleeve Blue LED Light Case Cooling Fan - Retail
(Also found this combined with the heatsink provides user friendly cooling)

I currently have dvd drives, sound card, video tuner, and a power supply.
Is a 480W Silent PurePower enough to power everything or should I upgrade to a newer Power Supply?

Does everything look compatible and the best for what I want to get out of it?

Thanks.
 
Do you know if those 630 processors like that one work on a 925XE chipset motherboard?
 
Carv said:
Do you know if those 630 processors like that one work on a 925XE chipset motherboard?
Click to expand...


I have an abit AA8XE, and it just needs a bios update for the 630 to work. Was considering getting one as i heard it easily does 4+ gig on air.

I'm currently struggling temp wise to get over 3.8gig ( ;) ) with my p4 540j !!
 
I have read that the onboard sound is pretty good and I may use that over my turtle beach santa cruz sound card. Also, what is the pci-x4 slot for? I don't think I have seen any card that utilizes that yet.
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think those are the future of the regular PCI cards, such as Network cards, etc.
 
Excellent choice in hard drives. The 16MB Maxtor drives are indeed faster than the WD360GD, and come closer to WD740GD than any other 7200RPM drive. They are also all over the Raptors in capacity and value.
 
Nice set up. Absolute fastest.... (especially seek times) the 74GB is faster. But hardly worth the extra money and limited space.

Everything looks good.

Though why not get a 7800GTX? I'd drop one of those 250GB harddrives and put that money towards the 7800GTX.

Raid 0 does not make things that much faster (real world use).
 
chrisf6969 said:
Nice set up. Absolute fastest.... (especially seek times) the 74GB is faster. But hardly worth the extra money and limited space.

Everything looks good.

Though why not get a 7800GTX? I'd drop one of those 250GB harddrives and put that money towards the 7800GTX.

Raid 0 does not make things that much faster (real world use).
Click to expand...

QFT
 
I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with "QFT".

Anyways, I have never used raid before and I would rather have that then a little nicer video card. I don't want to pay a crap load of extra money for a little boost in performance and the 6800GT can't be that bad.
 
Skooga said:
I'm sorry, I'm not familiar with "QFT".

Anyways, I have never used raid before and I would rather have that then a little nicer video card. I don't want to pay a crap load of extra money for a little boost in performance and the 6800GT can't be that bad.
Click to expand...

QFT - which in german means, whale's vagina, the literally translation has been lost through time, so really no one is exactly sure what it means. (Anchorman) :) LMAO!

ok, really...

QFT = Quoted For Truth ( I think!? or something like that)

He was saying I was right. That Raid 0 wouldn't benefit nearly as much as a 7800GTX (much nicer video card).

edit: a 6800GT is great, a 7800GTX is just AWESOME.
 
chrisf6969 said:
QFT - which in german means, whale's vagina, the literally translation has been lost through time, so really no one is exactly sure what it means. (Anchorman) :) LMAO!

ok, really...

QFT = Quoted For Truth ( I think!? or something like that)

He was saying I was right. That Raid 0 wouldn't benefit nearly as much as a 7800GTX.
Click to expand...

QFT :D ...God im lazy.
 
I would love to spend an extra couple of hundred, but my resources are limited. I plan on using a Stafford loan to pay for these upgrades (Which is ~1,200) or so. College money well spent. But, I'm going to be in debt the rest of my life so I might as well enjoy it while I can. So I am stuck with what I have unless there are any conflictions or major issues that I should be aware of. Thanks for all the positive (and negative) feedback. It reasures my investment.
 
Is a 480W Silent PurePower enough to power everything or should I upgrade to a newer Power Supply?
Click to expand...
no way in hell. that thing only carries 18a on the +12v, and you should have at LEAST 25ish for a system like that. look into the antec neopower and truepower 2.0 series, as well as the seasonic, FSP, sparkle, PC P&C, OCZ and enermax units.
 
I've gotta know if PC2 6400 memory is too much or something. It seems the CAS timings are slower and will the added bandwidth outweigh this? I don't mind buying it, but I just don't want to pay extra for something that is not as good.
 
Skooga said:
Another question, since I don't want to fork out the extra $200 for a 7800 GTX, what would a good 6800GT be (or other video card)?
I'm not seeing much of a difference between these 2 cards...

XFX PVT45GUDF3 Geforce 6800GT 256MB 256-bit GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail

eVGA 256-P2-N376-AX Geforce 6800GT 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail

Is it just a brand preference or does one actually perform better?
Click to expand...

Brands in high end videocards mean practically nothing.

ALL high end cards are built on the reference design, b/c they require such tight tolerances for the high speed ram, etc..

The only things better from one card to another is possibly:
1. warrantee - which I've never had a warantee issue with any of my videocards.
2. default speed - SOME cards come pre-overclocked which will be nice if you have NO inclination to overclock the card yourself. But for 5 minutes of installing coolbits and fiddling around you can surely overclock the videocard yourself that much or more.

PS. I still think you should drop one of those $120 drives and spend the extra $30 for a 7800GTX.
($350 for 6800GT vs $500 for 7800GTX = $150 difference - $120 for HD = $30)

And on the PSU, I have a Thermaltake 480 Silent Purepower too. And its been fine for my 6800GT and 3.4Ghz Northwood system. Though your system when overclocked will probably be a 4Ghz Prescott system, I think it will still be enough.
 
I'd say ditched the 6800 GT (as I did because I see no improvement in gaming between the 6800 Gt and 6600 GT except for benchmarking) and get the PNY Geforce 6600GT $180,
Click to expand...


at higher resolutions and settings, the 6800GT rapes the 6600GT.

what reso were you playing at?
 
I have a 17" sony sdm-x73 @ 1280 by 1024 pixels. Is this considered high?

I also read the review at ZZF and it says that memory was made pretty much for p5wd2, but at newegg, it says the ddr2 standards are 800. This is DDR 1000. Won't the extra be worthless or does that have nothing to do with it?

I have never over clocked anything but the processor, but would be willing to learn to overclock memory and graphics if that's what it takes to have higher performance at a decent cost.

Also, what does UL mean? (i'm guessing it is latency related)
 
Skooga said:
I have a 17" sony sdm-x73 @ 1280 by 1024 pixels. Is this considered high?

I also read the review at ZZF and it says that memory was made pretty much for p5wd2, but at newegg, it says the ddr2 standards are 800. This is DDR 1000. Won't the extra be worthless or does that have nothing to do with it?

I have never over clocked anything but the processor, but would be willing to learn to overclock memory and graphics if that's what it takes to have higher performance at a decent cost.

Also, what does UL mean? (i'm guessing it is latency related)
Click to expand...

Thats a fairly high resolution. And since you're stuck at 1280x1024(native) you may want to turn up the AA & AF.
2048x1536(ultra high) 1600x1280(high), 1280x1024(high/medium) 1024x768 medium, 800x600 = low, 640x480 = CRAP

DDR2 1000 is for overclocking.

UL (usually means ultra low - latency)
 
Skooga said:
Anyways, I have never used raid before and I would rather have that then a little nicer video card. I don't want to pay a crap load of extra money for a little boost in performance and the 6800GT can't be that bad.
Click to expand...

RAID 0 = almost no benifit (except video editing), and a huge increase in risk to loose data. Backup OFTEN if you use RAID 0, every single person I know that has ever used RAID 0 over the last 10 years (more than 10 people, and some people more than once) has lost data because of either a drive, or the controller, or the powersupply had a hiccup.. usually the drives were still fine, but the data was gone. (though I have seen drives fail too)

a single 7800GTX = FASTER than two 6800 ULTRAs in SLI.

Your call.

==>Lazn
 
Lazn_Work said:
RAID 0 = almost no benifit (except video editing), and a huge increase in risk to loose data. Backup OFTEN if you use RAID 0, every single person I know that has ever used RAID 0 over the last 10 years (more than 10 people, and some people more than once) has lost data because of either a drive, or the controller, or the powersupply had a hiccup.. usually the drives were still fine, but the data was gone. (though I have seen drives fail too)

a single 7800GTX = FASTER than two 6800 ULTRAs in SLI.

Your call.

==>Lazn
Click to expand...

Thats a really good point. Forgot to throw that in the arguement for dropping the Raid 0, (besides the zero speed benefit).

Also.

Noob Nasgul = w/ 51 posts telling you to get a 6600GT vs 6800GT (bad advice)
vs.
2[H]4U Lazn_work = 4,000 posts... with good advice
 
chrisf6969 said:
Noob Nasgul = w/ 51 posts telling you to get a 6600GT vs 6800GT (bad advice)
vs.
2[H]4U Lazn_work = 4,000 posts... with good advice
Click to expand...
and lithium726= 4,100+ posts saying the same thing :p

with doom3, youre using the one game that will really make that card shine. with UT2004, you have a game that is a couple gens old technology wise. Painkiller isnt that taxing either.
 
seems your unfamiliar with exactly how strickly the flaming and namecalling rules are enforced around here, the fact its the 1st rule may have been a clue.


(1) Absolutely NO FLAMING OR NAME CALLING. Mutual respect and civilized conversation is the required norm.

If you havent tripped to it yet, thats what your post count really reflects
how familiar you are with the rules of civil discourse in here.

Unfortunately for you Im busy and cant hold your hand, but this isnt your only transgression
So you get a vacation till Im not busy writing the frontpage news.
Then I can track down your other insulting posts and publicly let the rest of the members in those threads know your just a n00b that doesnt know any better,

In the mean time your on vacation, to ensure the membership such outbursts arent tolerated. Your ban will lift tommorow.
 
Ouch that hurt! :)

<sarcasm> Nasgul obviously is a very mature and knowledgable person, you should listen to him and take his great advice! </sarcasm>

Ok back on subject, if you still need some clarification, though considering a mod had to but in and spank him you should realize that he's not the person to listen to. But let me break down his childish attemp to compare his system to ONE of my systems.

He's comparing his 6600GT on his 4Ghz with 1Gb DDR2 maxed out (OC'd) system to my wife's PC w/ 6800nu in a little shuttle xPC 865 with 512 DDR at only 3Ghz thats not tweaked out at all. (picking on a girl) So he's got twice as much CPU power and his score was still 121 points less. - even that looks like he's the one getting owned!!

Now, a better comparison would be to my Lian-Li rig with a 6800GT and a 3.4Ghz cpu (even though its quite old, 478, DDR1, AGP etc.) , which completely smashed his 3dMark2005 score. (5600 vs 4300) 30% better score.

With both systems and 3dMarks right in front of him, he chooses the weaker system with a card that we're not even talking about to try to make his point. WEAK!

Anyway back to the point, the old smart people with lots of posts (hang around here long enough some knowledge will sink in) are all saying the same thing. Skip Raid 0 and go for the BIG GUN videocard.
 
chrisf6969: No need to pick on Nasgul anymore, he might straighten up and turn into a good part of the community.. or he may go away, either way lets stay on topic.

Skooga: If you are planning on doing video editing, or even photoshoping large files, RAID 0 can help. But if you choose to use it, (really even if you don't) backup often.

There is no alternative to backing up data. Even RAID 1 or RAID 5 only help with hard drive failure, not any other form of data loss.

As to if you "need" a 7800GTX, well no of course not. Personally I use a 6600GT because it was what I could justify cost wise. (at the time 6800nu's were significantly more, now they are close to the same cost, and what I would get if I were making a purchase today)

If you are only building a computer for doing homework, a Via Eden motherboard with onboard vga would be enough. But if you are planning to play games, and you are trying to decide between RAID 0 and a 7800GTX, the better video card is a better use of your money.

==>Lazn
 
Thank you for all the advice. I was actually worrying about Raid 0 in my mind immediately (since it splits the files up). But my only modivation was a speed that I have never experienced first hand. I guess it won't help that much, but I do plan on doing some video editing and sound editing as well as some photoshop work. (I might chose Computer Science as my major or else some sort of engineering.)

So will the other Raids that are available on my board be of any use or are they all garbage?
I suppose I will chose the PC8000 over the PC6400 (even though it costs like $50 more).
I may drop one of the hard drives since I already have a 160GB 8mb cache Maxtor and the second may be of no use to me.
And I will have to wait until September or October before I can even buy this because that is when the loan is processed and the video card prices will probably drop by then so I will look seriously into the 7800GTX or similar kinds.

Thank you for all the help so far and I am sorry this has caused some bickering and minor squalls.
 
A RAID-0 setup will be useful for the video/photoshop work. However, it should be separate from your operating system volume for best performance. Nevertheless, the 16MB Maxtor drive you're picking up now to hold Windows and your programs, then a pair of whatever drives is king of the hill when you get into content creation in RAID-0 will deliver great performance in such work.
 
lithium, you're quite the post whore, a little over a year and over 4K post? gotta get out of the basement a little more.
Click to expand...
or perhaps, i just like helping people out and contributing to conversations. Thanks, buh-bye.

id love to see your 6600GT run Far Cry at 1280x1024 wtih 4x AA and 8X AF and retain a constant 40+ FPS. My 6800GT can!
 
Skooga said:
But my only modivation was a speed that I have never experienced first hand. I guess it won't help that much, but I do plan on doing some video editing and sound editing as well as some photoshop work. (I might chose Computer Science as my major or else some sort of engineering.)

So will the other Raids that are available on my board be of any use or are they all garbage?
Click to expand...

You would have been sitting their waiting to experience it forever. B/c you can't feel or experience the minor difference in Raid 0 vs a good SATA HD. Unless, you sat there and timed a virus scan or something. The difference would be so minor its really not worth it.

Read up some articles they almost all say the same thing, in a desktop environment Raid 0 is a waste. Like this ANANDTECH article :

Final Words
If you haven't gotten the hint by now, we'll spell it out for you: there is no place, and no need for a RAID-0 array on a desktop computer. The real world performance increases are negligible at best and the reduction in reliability, thanks to a halving of the mean time between failure, makes RAID-0 far from worth it on the desktop.

There are some exceptions, especially if you are running a particular application that itself benefits considerably from a striped array, and obviously, our comments do not apply to server-class IO of any sort. But for the vast majority of desktop users and gamers alike, save your money and stay away from RAID-0. ...

... Bottom line: RAID-0 arrays will win you just about any benchmark, but they'll deliver virtually nothing more than that for real world desktop performance. That's just the cold hard truth.
Click to expand...

If you already have a 160Gb HD just stick with that or if your really want to try Raid 0 buy a 2nd 160GB and raid those. (much cheaper)

Pretty much all of the new big HD's perform about the same. even 8mb vs 16mb doesn't make too much of a difference. The only HD that really sets itself apart is the WD 74Gb raptor. Which is just in a different class, but very expense considering it only comes with 74Gb. (about $2+ per Gb) Compared to many HD's costing about $0.50/Gb. AND the ONLY TIME I EVER NOTICE it being faster is for something really HD intensive like a virus/spyware scan or defragmenting the HD. Everything else "feels" the same.

Speaking of buying videocards... I've been seeing PCIe 6800 Ultras for sale in the FS forum for $325 shipped!! Now thats something to consider getting!!
 
I see ppl suggesting some nice ram for OC but it really depends how far you want to go OC wise. I built my gf a very similiar system but did not make it for overclocking. Just for fun I thought I`d see what it could do OC wise and it ran 3.5ghz with OEM HS/F and $88 GEIL2x512mb ram. The temps were fine, and system was stable. You don't have to spend $200+ on 1gb to get 3.5ghz, hell I spent $140 on my GEIL that's rated up to 2.4v so in theory it should perform as the other posting running his at 2.0.

:)
 
I've been swayed to intel from amd, so I don't have much intel knowledge or experience. Isn't almost all ddr2 rated at 533 MHz? You can run 1:1 and get a good OC out of PC4200 ram. Why does everyone suggest such high-rated ram (aside from the small performance advantage from better latencies and running at a better ratio than 1:1)?
 
JasonE4 said:
I've been swayed to intel from amd, so I don't have much intel knowledge or experience. Isn't almost all ddr2 rated at 533 MHz? You can run 1:1 and get a good OC out of PC4200 ram. Why does everyone suggest such high-rated ram (aside from the small performance advantage from better latencies and running at a better ratio than 1:1)?
Click to expand...

Because they're overclockers by nature and always over buy when it comes to RAM. It's better to have it and not need it, than it is to need it and don't have it. Or something like that. Plain old PC 4200 with timmings of CAS3 -3-3-8 would do just fine.

As for Video cards, I'd much rather have an ATI X800XL over the 6800 GT. 6600 and X700 are out of the question IMHO. Right now AMD is ahead of Intel as far as my Gaming rig goes. Yet, I find myself defending Intel more.

As we post, price will be falling the rest of the week and into next week as these guys (VARs) jockey for positions. Put off any CPU purchase for at least one week. There are othe plans for cuts at the end of the month as well.

I have a bud looking at a P4 640, Asus 945, ATI X800XL, 1GB of PQI, WD 250GB 16MB Cache and Case, PSU plus the rest he already has. The only things I'd do differently is go with the 561 and 955x, I already have two systems waiting on Mobo+Proc+Video, and possible DDR2 for an Intel system.

Donnie27
 
I second that x800xl suggestion.

And as for the kid who got a vacation, though he was immature and went about things in the wrong way, he is not far off in his claims. I had a 6600GT for a few months, and I found a good deal on a 6800GT so I upgraded. I went into my games hoping that this new card would make everything soo much better when in reality my fps was better in doom3, far cry, and hl2, but roughly 3 fps. I tried different resolutions and even at the highest resolution I was only gaining a minor 6-10 fps, if that.

Please DO NOT misunderstand my post. I am in no way trying to tell you that the 6600gt is better or the same in performance as the 6800GT. I am just trying to make a small point that for some aspects such as the gaming part, the extra money would be better spent elsewhere. As a matter of fact if you want a card that outperforms both go with the previously mentioned x800xl. It is GREAT, and in between the two cards in price.
 
swanysto said:
I second that x800xl suggestion.

And as for the kid who got a vacation, though he was immature and went about things in the wrong way, he is not far off in his claims. I had a 6600GT for a few months, and I found a good deal on a 6800GT so I upgraded. I went into my games hoping that this new card would make everything soo much better when in reality my fps was better in doom3, far cry, and hl2, but roughly 3 fps. I tried different resolutions and even at the highest resolution I was only gaining a minor 6-10 fps, if that.

Please DO NOT misunderstand my post. I am in no way trying to tell you that the 6600gt is better or the same in performance as the 6800GT. I am just trying to make a small point that for some aspects such as the gaming part, the extra money would be better spent elsewhere. As a matter of fact if you want a card that outperforms both go with the previously mentioned x800xl. It is GREAT, and in between the two cards in price.
Click to expand...

You have to have a real good/high overclock to see that much more of a difference. Someone with an A64 FX-55 ( or a lower classs model overclocked to 2.6 GHz for example) would see a larger performance GAP than the same cards installed in a computer with a 3200+. I'd think the bottleneck points on each system would have to be factored in. He has a nicely overclocked P4 but that's for another post. It and an AthlonXP might show a smaller performance GAP. Might see a larger GAP on the Pentium M as well. Luckily for Intel that GAP is mainly in Games.

Donnie27
 
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