http://www.bit-tech.net/gaming/2006/06/09/final_fantasy_vii_elder_scroll/1.html
Just interesting read.
Just interesting read.
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Final Fantasy V Oblivion
- Thread starter Netrat33
- Start date
I think this quote is a great point:
FF and Oblivion are two incredibly different styles of RPG. The FF series has always been story and character driven, it is about involving you in an epic quest, making you care about the party members, drawing you in, pulling at the heart strings, and throwing you for a loop here and then. Oblivion, on the other hand, is all about freedom, but that extra freedom comes at the cost of story. There is just no way to have a plot as involving as FFVII in a game as open-ended as Oblivion.
I think the Oblivion style games appeal more to the MMORPG type crowd, the people who like to level up, kill stuff, collect stuff, repeat, and, hey, if that is what you like, go for it.
On the other hand, the FF style games can be seen almost like interactive movies to some people, which some like, some don't. I think both are good, and I personally prefer the FF style by a large margin, but his big point, that modern RPGs like Oblivion could learn a lot from older RPGs about how to tell a good story first and foremost, and somehow combine that with the freedom, well, that is a good idea.
FF and Oblivion are two incredibly different styles of RPG. The FF series has always been story and character driven, it is about involving you in an epic quest, making you care about the party members, drawing you in, pulling at the heart strings, and throwing you for a loop here and then. Oblivion, on the other hand, is all about freedom, but that extra freedom comes at the cost of story. There is just no way to have a plot as involving as FFVII in a game as open-ended as Oblivion.
I think the Oblivion style games appeal more to the MMORPG type crowd, the people who like to level up, kill stuff, collect stuff, repeat, and, hey, if that is what you like, go for it.
On the other hand, the FF style games can be seen almost like interactive movies to some people, which some like, some don't. I think both are good, and I personally prefer the FF style by a large margin, but his big point, that modern RPGs like Oblivion could learn a lot from older RPGs about how to tell a good story first and foremost, and somehow combine that with the freedom, well, that is a good idea.
heatsinker
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Oblivion represents the quintessential style of computer RPGs. More emphasis is put into stats and stat development as well as open-endedness. The story is important too, but with an open-ended approach it's hard to keep the focus in one place; kinda like in real life where the story is the chore while the sidequests are the fun activities.
Conversely, you have the typical style of Japanese RPG, where the story is central and the characters revolve around it. You end up with a more linear, but more affecting approach. Repetition is usually more common with JRPGs, but not universal.
Keep in mind that none of these are written in stone, a lot of games have broken these conventions and became instant classics. Ultima VII is a great example; incredibly character-centric, open-ended, and the story was nothing short of epic. Then you have games like Star Ocean where the story takes a backseat to the lengthy gameplay and stats/item hoarding.
Conversely, you have the typical style of Japanese RPG, where the story is central and the characters revolve around it. You end up with a more linear, but more affecting approach. Repetition is usually more common with JRPGs, but not universal.
Keep in mind that none of these are written in stone, a lot of games have broken these conventions and became instant classics. Ultima VII is a great example; incredibly character-centric, open-ended, and the story was nothing short of epic. Then you have games like Star Ocean where the story takes a backseat to the lengthy gameplay and stats/item hoarding.
*bitchslap*cyks said:
I agree with the second poster; Oblivion and the FF series are designed from the ground up as different types of games. It's like comparing Baulders Gate with Morrowind. One is a top-down, story-driven fantasy, and the other is a FPS-style ,"look-at-me-I-can-jump-off-cliffs", overstory game. Or, this is also akin to comparing the original Doom to BF2. Doom is [mostly] a single player corridor crawler, and BF2 is a multiplayer, team-v-team style of game.
Apples /= Oranges.
SilverSliver
[H]F Junkie
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Well is FF7 is an apple, and Oblivion is an orange, lets compare oranges to mangos for a second.
Diablo II and Oblivion. Save for the perspective, both the same genre compared to FF7 which is more character based.
My opinion is Diablo II had more "meat" than Oblivion, you could level up all you wanted, collect all the items you wanted, replay everything over and over and still have something to look forward to and a sense of accomplishment with the story line.
Oblivion....well...for me it was just empty. You could kinda wander into the main story line, get the best stuff in the game relatively easy, and beat the game. Sure it was pretty, sure there are a lot of petty side quests. But really. Besides the graphics and the initial 12 hours or so of gameplay, Oblivion started feeling very pointless, very fast.
If you are going to focus on achievement in an RPG, there has to be more stuff to achieve. More gear, more characters, more dungeons that arn't just reskinned or extended versions of everything you've already been to. Baldurs Gate does this well, Diablo II even did it fine, Spellforce 2 does an okay job as well. But why, oh why can't Oblivion? Why do we have to rely on the mod communiity in this instance? Eh...Im ranting.
PS -- I like FFVII.
Diablo II and Oblivion. Save for the perspective, both the same genre compared to FF7 which is more character based.
My opinion is Diablo II had more "meat" than Oblivion, you could level up all you wanted, collect all the items you wanted, replay everything over and over and still have something to look forward to and a sense of accomplishment with the story line.
Oblivion....well...for me it was just empty. You could kinda wander into the main story line, get the best stuff in the game relatively easy, and beat the game. Sure it was pretty, sure there are a lot of petty side quests. But really. Besides the graphics and the initial 12 hours or so of gameplay, Oblivion started feeling very pointless, very fast.
If you are going to focus on achievement in an RPG, there has to be more stuff to achieve. More gear, more characters, more dungeons that arn't just reskinned or extended versions of everything you've already been to. Baldurs Gate does this well, Diablo II even did it fine, Spellforce 2 does an okay job as well. But why, oh why can't Oblivion? Why do we have to rely on the mod communiity in this instance? Eh...Im ranting.
PS -- I like FFVII.
heatsinker
Supreme [H]ardness
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It's obvious that the development team spent the majority of their time working with the engine because the Elder Scrolls games have been essentially the same for decades. I can't say I blame them because the visuals really add an entirely new dimension to the game; I don't think I've ever felt so immersed. 
I just wonder if their parent company will allow them to diversify their game selection like they did in the past; I'd like another Redguard game. But then again, a lot of this applies to Squaresoft as well...
I just wonder if their parent company will allow them to diversify their game selection like they did in the past; I'd like another Redguard game. But then again, a lot of this applies to Squaresoft as well...
M
MantisIT
Guest
Final Fantasy sucks.
(Compared to Oblivion)
(Compared to Oblivion)
MrGuvernment
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RailGunRiz said:
Please explain frome ach and every version starting at 1 upto 11 now? how each one sucks and why please.
For someone like me who has neve rplayed oblivio, but has played every FF upto 6, then stoped, played 10 and no more so far....
SilverSliver said:
I had fun with Diablo, but I wouldn't really call it an RPG. It is more along the lines of Gauntlet, pure hack and slash (with the added bonus of getting items). I mean, did Diablo even have a story? If it did it must not have been that good, because I can't remember it. Diablo was fun for what it was, but the main focus was dungeons dungeons dungeons, kill kill kill, which is OK, just not really what RPGs are made of.
MrGuvment -
You never played VII - IX? I really recommend you at least give VII (overrated a bit, but still an absolutely awesome game) and IX (very much underrated, personally my 2nd favorite from the FF series, goes back to the NES and SNES roots with the characters) a try. VIII is a toss up... It came with that whole Square flirting with Fantasy meets Sci-Fi phase and ended up with an interesting enough but rather convoluted story, and extremely cold characters that are hard to relate to (well, unless you are a militant emo boy). On the plus side VIII did have a pretty interesting 'you steal magic and abilities from enemies' idea, which I am not sure how I feel about. I never finished it (finals came up and I got off track and never came back) but I will probably get around to get once I get a PS3 (seeing as my PS2 refuses to read PS1 games anymore).
Denki said:you can't really say that there isn't games that combine the best of both worlds... i mean hello fallout 1/2?
I think the only reason it might not be considered the best even though I do think it's the best is that fallout has a much more higher maturity level (sex, slaves, cussing) so it's not as "mass appeal" not that it's a bad game.
M
MantisIT
Guest
MrGuvernment said:
You can't run up to someone in Final Fantasy and beat them down with a flail or a hammer for no apparent reason.. Also japanese games just aren't my fancy.
Oblivion signifies what every aspect of an RPG should have IMO, content, graphics, good sound /subpar acting / fun gameplay/ ect. ++ IT'S FUN.
What does FF offer you? Wooo weeee turn based anime'esque power ups WOOOOoo, long cutscenes with too much drama, ect ect ect..... I guess if you like that sorta stuff then by all means play it. I however, hate it and in my humble opinion it sucks.
heatsinker
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Yep, Fallout was definitely something else and awesome packaging too! It's a shame we don't get that kind of treatment from the publishers anymore. Now we have to pony up extra bucks to get a hard copy of the manual.
ZOMGWTFBBQ
Limp Gawd
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The two are very different but the overall differences are clear.
Oblivion - Incredibly shit storyline(what little there was) with no emotion, no depth and a gameplay style thats very mediocore. Nice graphics though, if you can run them.
Final Fantasy - Awesome story, in-depth characters, plot(including back-stories) and a story driven style of gameplay. Simple but satisfying graphics.
Basically, if you want pretty graphics and to be bored to tears then play Oblivion. If you want a game that puts more into story than anything else, get FF or something similar.
IMO Secret of Mana was a far better game than Oblivion and it had sprite graphics and midi-quality music(which was still better than oblivions music). I only care bout storyline and music which doesnt seem to be the view of many others(oddly enough)
Oblivion - Incredibly shit storyline(what little there was) with no emotion, no depth and a gameplay style thats very mediocore. Nice graphics though, if you can run them.
Final Fantasy - Awesome story, in-depth characters, plot(including back-stories) and a story driven style of gameplay. Simple but satisfying graphics.
Basically, if you want pretty graphics and to be bored to tears then play Oblivion. If you want a game that puts more into story than anything else, get FF or something similar.
IMO Secret of Mana was a far better game than Oblivion and it had sprite graphics and midi-quality music(which was still better than oblivions music). I only care bout storyline and music which doesnt seem to be the view of many others(oddly enough)
MrGuvernment
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NulloModo said:
Shall have to try them one day for sure
was it FF 10 that had the really annoying cut scenes like every 5 mins ? for PS2 ? then 11 came out which also was for PC and was online play only ?
You can't deny that FF is the largest grossing RPG franchise ever created though, hell I think FFX or FFVII made more money than any other RPG, not counting pay-to-play RPGS. And it doesn't eat up people's lives like some other RPGs do. And you don't need expensive hardware to enjoy it either. Computer nerds and console nerds are a whole different breed, and I'm not talking intelligence here.
Stereophile
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IMO Oblivion more closely approximates a pen and paper RPG.
It mimics the early PC RPG styles only with much nicer graphics.
JRPS didn't come out until later.
I really don't consider them RPGs in the traditional sense.
Some people like them, I don't.
For the same reason I didn't like MGS2 on PS2.
It's like watching a movie unfold.
I like to make my own story. I don't want everything delineated beforehand.
Plus the whole "teenage angst" angle gets old.
Doesn't really matter though. Sims games are best sellers
but they bore the crap out of me.
It mimics the early PC RPG styles only with much nicer graphics.
JRPS didn't come out until later.
I really don't consider them RPGs in the traditional sense.
Some people like them, I don't.
For the same reason I didn't like MGS2 on PS2.
It's like watching a movie unfold.
I like to make my own story. I don't want everything delineated beforehand.
Plus the whole "teenage angst" angle gets old.
Doesn't really matter though. Sims games are best sellers
but they bore the crap out of me.
The biggest flaw that I felt playing Oblivion was it tried to be a bit too open ended. I mean if I stumble through an Oblivion gate to that hell inspired world as a level 2 weakling, I expect to get my ass handed to me. Instead I am hanging in a brutal melee against what looks to be a nasty demonlord that instead turns out to be quite a powder puff at lower levels. Even better is winning the Arena championship as that tougher competitor in the kindgom without even bothering to level beyond level 5 or even buying a better weapon than that iron sword obtained during the initial prison break. In the typical RPG tradition you have to level up before venturing into that dark forest as such, but now there is no real gain in levelling except new shiny loot. The problem there is that loot in itself isn't that useful since everything levels along with you, meaning that it may look cool except that it only allows a constant difficulty (assuming you keep the magic weapons charged). It is clear that was the intention of Bethesda, since I have read countless reviews where the reviewer is obviously a casual gamer that is thrilled by the fact he can go after the biggest baddies without bothering to level first. Or another reviewer that loves the fact that it isn't that difficult to get the really cool looking ebony weapons / armor, but neglects to notice that his ultra rare / expensive armor turns out to be quite common among the world once he levels into his twenties.
Beyond the hefty hardware requirements, that seems to be the only major flaw in an otherwise excellent PC RPG. Being that close to greatest isn't enough and it is for this reason that many, myself included, are clamouring for the fan inspired leveling mods that bring back that true sense of the traditional RPG (weakling chasing rats at low levels and a virtual god shrugging off demons at the highest levels). This opinion seems common in the old guard of PC RPGs that still remember playing the classic the AD&D gold box games from SSI and an opinion that is often shirked by many more recent gamers who seem to think that GTA is an RPG.
FF7 on the otherhand is the quintessential JRPG and that in itself is perhaps its largest flaw since that genres success has led to its own mediocrity. How many tens or hundreds of generic JRPGs exist where some unlikely lad becomes a hero and savior from the darker powers through odd quests and turn based combat? In such a case the story must hold everything together since without the story there is nothing to differentiate that legendary FF7 from the nameless masses of similiar titles. It doesn't seem that suprising that FF7 is held in such high regard since it set the milestone that many later JRPGs are judged against in the whole evolutions vs. revolution arguments.
-Malichite
Beyond the hefty hardware requirements, that seems to be the only major flaw in an otherwise excellent PC RPG. Being that close to greatest isn't enough and it is for this reason that many, myself included, are clamouring for the fan inspired leveling mods that bring back that true sense of the traditional RPG (weakling chasing rats at low levels and a virtual god shrugging off demons at the highest levels). This opinion seems common in the old guard of PC RPGs that still remember playing the classic the AD&D gold box games from SSI and an opinion that is often shirked by many more recent gamers who seem to think that GTA is an RPG.
FF7 on the otherhand is the quintessential JRPG and that in itself is perhaps its largest flaw since that genres success has led to its own mediocrity. How many tens or hundreds of generic JRPGs exist where some unlikely lad becomes a hero and savior from the darker powers through odd quests and turn based combat? In such a case the story must hold everything together since without the story there is nothing to differentiate that legendary FF7 from the nameless masses of similiar titles. It doesn't seem that suprising that FF7 is held in such high regard since it set the milestone that many later JRPGs are judged against in the whole evolutions vs. revolution arguments.
-Malichite
awww hellz yeah!ZOMGWTFBBQ said:
I think the problem with Oblivion was that it tried to do to be to open. It was fun wandering around exploring places and0 doing quests but once you get back to the main quest and finish it, I just didn't feel like ever touching the game again. There was nothing else to draw me back in sense. It was a pretty emotionless game too. The combat system, art style, and music were also horrible.