Fermi/GF100 tidbits: NDA expiry, performance, pricing.

GoldenTiger

GoldenTiger

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http://www.bjorn3d.com/forum/showpost.php?p=215717&postcount=8

The editor of the Bjorn3D review site has this to say about Fermi, posted late last night:

Methious said:
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Design Article releases tomorrow 7PM CST with complete Whitepaper info.

New Features, new cache, new Memory setup, and yes it's about 100% performance increase over GTX-2xx so figure single GTX-285 vs 5870 then double the GTX-285 performance.

Then it handles triangles different, triangles on any given frame can number in the hundreds of thousands so that's very important.

It will fold a lot better.

Increased efficiency in several areas.

It's a revolutionary new design oriented toward tessellation (those pesky triangles) and geometric programming. Problem being every wire frame is made up of triangles, tessellation takes those triangle and breaks them down into many smaller triangles. This core is uniquely designed to handle that so geometric and shader heavy games you will see more than the 100% raw power increase.

520USD might handle it. At 2x GTX-285 performance that puts it above GTX-295 performance and it's DX11 ready and designed for that specifically. Current ATI offerings are really good but basically a double the hardware on the same core design to provide more raw power. GF100 is a core design to take advantage of what the industry needs today and for some time in the future.

Read the article tomorro cause that's about all I can say tonight.
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:eek:
 
520$? pfft. When will Nvidia learn. The days of 500 dollar video cards are over. The general populace isnt going to spend that kind of money on a video card. Its a niche market at best.
 
Krenum said:
520$? pfft. When will Nvidia learn. The days of 500 dollar video cards are over. The general populace isnt going to spend that kind of money on a video card. Its a niche market at best.
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At TWICE the performance of a 285 and DX 11 they will. I know I will!:D
 
Like I said many times over the past months, fully expect to pay $600+ for one of these cards indefinately into the future. And you'll need 2 cards for Eyefinity type setups. Probably the reason they will let older GTX2xx cards work with their 3D vision...the high price of the new cards.
 
So comparing a 5870 to Fermi would be like comparing a 4870 to a GTX280. About what I expected. Not enough for me to trade up, but hopefully the Mid-range Fermi's perform about equal to a GTX260, so I can replace my power hunger 8800GTS(g92) SLI with a more power efficient Fermi-lite.
 
Any one know how they translate gtx-2xx to equal gtx-285? Couldn't that also be 260/275/280?
I do agree the $520 mark is quite lofty even if it performs as well as they say. Still though, for a single gpu I might be willing to shell that out rather than go with another 5870 and deal with the issues of CF/SLI. If I could get one for maybe $450 or less with cashback, probably jump on it.
 
heatlesssun said:
At TWICE the performance of a 285 and DX 11 they will. I know I will!:D
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Like I said, its a niche market. but hey, if you have the money to blow, more power to ya. I just wish Nvidia would lower there prices. At 500+ dollars Ati doesn't have to lower there prices to compete. Thats bad for the customer.
 
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Krenum said:
Like I said, its a niche market. but hey, if you have the money to blow, more power to ya. I just wish Nvidia would lower there prices. At 500+ dollars Ati doesn't have to lower there prices to compete. Thats bad for the customer.
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The 5870 is ~400. At 500 dollars for 20-30% more performance + better physx (faster context switching vs. gt200), that doesn't sound like a bad deal. Also at ~400 you're already dealing with the high-end enthusiast, and I'm not sure how price-sensitive that consumer is.

From an engineering standpoint its clear nVidia is trading size, heat/power consumption, and performance for GPGPU, to expand that end of their business, but it doesn't really matter when it outperforms the competition at a relevant price.
 
The 7800GTX at launch was $600+, if the performance of this new card is as Methios says, then I think I would pay what it costs when BF:BC2 come out.
 
$500 sounds about right if its around 25-30% faster than a 5870. the gtx360 is what I am wanting to know about though. also hopefully all these cards(ATI and Nvidia) will drop down in price around summer time because I usually draw the line at 200 bucks. I paid less for my gtx260 in Nov 2008 then they are selling for now so prices on these new cards may be too high for a while though. :(
 
BeavermanA said:
Any one know how they translate gtx-2xx to equal gtx-285? Couldn't that also be 260/275/280?
I do agree the $520 mark is quite lofty even if it performs as well as they say. Still though, for a single gpu I might be willing to shell that out rather than go with another 5870 and deal with the issues of CF/SLI. If I could get one for maybe $450 or less with cashback, probably jump on it.
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That's the weird thing. I've read elsewhere that it's double the performance of a GTX-260 in Farcry2. Not sure why Bjorn would say double "GTX-2XX" if he really meant double the GTX-285. Sounds like it'll be faster than the 5870 but only marginally.

But man, if I have to get two of these cards to enable Eyefinity/NFinity, forget it.
 
akotlar said:
The 5870 is ~400. At 500 dollars for 20-30% more performance + better physx (faster context switching vs. gt200), that doesn't sound like a bad deal. Also at ~400 you're already dealing with the high-end enthusiast, and I'm not sure how price-sensitive that consumer is.
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All these comparisons to the 5870 are great and all, but these new cards are coming out in March right? Don't think AMD will just take this lying down. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if a 5890 poked its head up around the same time frame, eliminating that 20-30% gap and coming in at a significantly lower price than the assumed $520. NVidia will then have to rethink it's pricing scheme unless they're totally banking on a premium price for say, better folding performance. Anyway, this is great for us all. :)
 
First off will these new nVidia cards do nFinity like AMD's EYEFINITY ? I know there is an option coming where old nVidia cards can run triple screen gaming BUT in SLI with 2 cards :rolleyes: Will just one single new generation nVidia card do it ?

Plus these are due in March ? That will be 6-7 months after the 5800 series was released, I would think ATI has a refresh coming then ? And by March I know the chip makers will have their factory in full swing for AMD with no shortages by then.
 
Hope that ATI won't drop the price yet since my HD 4870 X2 is going to eBay this week.
 
Performance is supposed to be a noticeable increase, but the price most assuredly is a detractor for me if its spot-on =/
 
After paying $400+ for a 7800GT, I will never pay more than $300 for a video card again, it just isn't worth it. I also am just hoping it pushes down the price of a 5870 to around $300.

I also have a hard time believe that much of an improvement across the board, maybe on some specific titles so I'm not expecting much price pressure on the 5870.
 
darkpaw said:
After paying $400+ for a 7800GT, I will never pay more than $300 for a video card again, it just isn't worth it. I also am just hoping it pushes down the price of a 5870 to around $300.

I also have a hard time believe that much of an improvement across the board, maybe on some specific titles so I'm not expecting much price pressure on the 5870.
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You sir fall into that general populace factor I was talking about. common sense folk like you and myself remember the days of the Geforce wars. I know I won't ever pay that much for a video card again, 300 dollars is my limit.
 
Krenum said:
You sir fall into that general populace factor I was talking about. common sense folk like you and myself remember the days of the Geforce wars. I know I won't ever pay that much for a video card again, 300 dollars is my limit.
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My Brother is the same way...$299 is his extreme limit, and he is an IT programmer and PC gamer since the 80's, been building computers for well over 15yrs.

He makes a good point, that these fancy schmancy $500+ cards like the 5970 and GTX-295 are a fucking joke and for e-penis and nothing more. Because these huge brick size cards get old very quick, and take up tons of energy and make the computer hot, plus the price premium is never worth it.

I am one of those freaks that does go for these high end cards, and like to run my games at extreme AA and AF, and super high res, but the more I buy them, I feel he is correct. Taking out my GTX-280 it felt heavy and like a brick, and took two big power connectors from the PSU, and now the GTX-280 can be matched in speed with like a GTX-275 or 5850 which run much cooler and cheaper.

My point is these super high end dual GPU cards get out performed and become outdated just too fast, in like 6-12 months the next gen single cards come out cheaper, cooler, and more efficient.
 
Sigh, yea, I've bought quite a few $500-600 graphics cards in the past, but I'm done with that.

games never even use them to the full potential because companies don't develop games based on $600 cards
you can get by very well on a $200-$300 card these days.
 
Zorachus said:
My Brother is the same way...$299 is his extreme limit, and he is an IT programmer and PC gamer since the 80's, been building computers for well over 15yrs.

He makes a good point, that these fancy schmancy $500+ cards like the 5970 and GTX-295 are a fucking joke and for e-penis and nothing more. Because these huge brick size cards get old very quick, and take up tons of energy and make the computer hot, plus the price premium is never worth it.

I am one of those freaks that does go for these high end cards, and like to run my games at extreme AA and AF, and super high res, but the more I buy them, I feel he is correct. Taking out my GTX-280 it felt heavy and like a brick, and took two big power connectors from the PSU, and now the GTX-280 can be matched in speed with like a GTX-275 or 5850 which run much cooler and cheaper.

My point is these super high end dual GPU cards get out performed and become outdated just too fast, in like 6-12 months the next gen single cards come out cheaper, cooler, and more efficient.
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yeah thats why I have never been interested in having the fastest and most expensive parts. technology just changes too damn fast to justify spending thousands on pc parts. heck a $5000 pc is no better than a $1000 pc 2 years down the road. please just give me bang for buck parts.
 
I'm not cheap but I agree with you guys here regarding the prices. I know there are people here and on other sites that would basically pay whatever the charged for the next great thing. 600, 700? Alot of people are ok with that, I however am not. I was hoping $400.00 would be a GTX 380 (GF100) flagship card since that puts it in line with a 5870 price wise and yet it will be a little faster. It makes sense (to me) at least. Now I also have an issue as to where it makes sense to upgrade for me. If 1 fermi is about equal or a little faster than 2 x GTX 260's then where does that leave me for an upgrade? I need 2 for the upgrade to make sense. Which means $1200.00 bucks, ugh. I was hoping to do that same upgrade for about $800.00 and that I could justify for price/performance. It's not a matter of affordability it's common sense and what I can bear to swallow before I feel like a schmuck being taken for a ride. I mean let's face it this is all expensive and loaded with diminishing returns at our level but there's varying degrees of absurity lol in my mind at least.

I paid $600.00 for 1 8800gtx at launch and thought it was alot of money but that was only 1 card at the time. I came from 2 x 7800 gtx's and it made sense. But now with tri sli I need 2 cards for this to make sense and I'll be damned if I go with 1 just to save some heat and power LOL no way.

Just some of my thoughts on the subject. Here's to hoping GF100's are 400 each. :)

Oh and 1 other thing if the single GPU Gf100 flagship card will be $600.00, then where will they price the dual GPU gf104 variant when they launch that 1 month or 2 later? 800? Usually 400-450 would be the top end single gpu and the top dog dual GPU when launched is about 600. Also if you charge $600 out of the box for gf100 then what about the 5970 at the same price point? Surely the GF100 won't outperform the 5970. I mean come on get serious. Since if the Gf100 beats the 5970 then even I would pay 600 bucks for 1, lol I think.
 
wolfen22 said:
Sigh, yea, I've bought quite a few $500-600 graphics cards in the past, but I'm done with that.

games never even use them to the full potential because companies don't develop games based on $600 cards
you can get by very well on a $200-$300 card these days.
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Yep, look at the 5850 vs 5870, there is a $100 difference, but the performance difference is maybe 10-15% at best, so the price should only be like $30-$45 more for the 5870, NOT $100

And then check the crazy expensive 5970 for $600 MSRP, compared to the 5850 for less than $300, that is a 100% price difference, but performance is no where near a 100% gap. And then come this Fall the new single card 6870 will match the 5970 or beat it for half the price, and run cooler, etc...

I actually would be willing to maybe spend $600 on a card, if it truly was 100% faster or double the performance of the main single card, but that is never the case, they usually are only 50%-75% faster at best, but they charge a giant premium anyways.
 
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Krenum said:
520$? pfft. When will Nvidia learn. The days of 500 dollar video cards are over. The general populace isnt going to spend that kind of money on a video card. Its a niche market at best.
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I've seen 5970s selling for well over $600.
 
You guys are out of your mind paying $500+ for a video card! I would sooner take that 5 bones and go to a strip bar.....
 
I don't mind paying $520 USD. My GTX 285 needs to be retired and GF100 sounds like a great candidate. Now the continued waiting for release. :)
 
maleficarus said:
You guys are out of your mind paying $500+ for a video card! I would sooner take that 5 bones and go to a strip bar.....
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LOL a strip bar? I have a better idea, why not take that 500 and find a GF ( or if you have a wife) take her out and have a blast and then go home and get it for free. Not a lap dance and your hand and feel robbed to boot. lol ;)
 
dR.Jester said:
I don't mind paying $520 USD. My GTX 285 needs to be retired and GF100 sounds like a great candidate. Now the continued waiting for release. :)
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I really don't get this. High end video cards have been $500 forever. And there are plenty of games and setups that can use this power. Eyefinity anyone?
 
Zorachus said:
First off will these new nVidia cards do nFinity like AMD's EYEFINITY ? I know there is an option coming where old nVidia cards can run triple screen gaming BUT in SLI with 2 cards :rolleyes: Will just one single new generation nVidia card do it ?

Plus these are due in March ? That will be 6-7 months after the 5800 series was released, I would think ATI has a refresh coming then ? And by March I know the chip makers will have their factory in full swing for AMD with no shortages by then.
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If my understanding is right about Eyefinity, you need 3 of the same res supporting monitors. nFinity you could use 1 24 and 2 19s and use them at native resolutions.
 
heatlesssun said:
I really don't get this. High end video cards have been $500 forever. And there are plenty of games and setups that can use this power. Eyefinity anyone?
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The market has changed somewhat in the last few years dude. Thankfully ATI had a big hand in that or else , yes, nvidia would still have us at 600 bucks for a single GPU card. That's the truth and I love nvidia's products, but the truth is the truth.
 
Savoy said:
The market has changed somewhat in the last few years dude. Thankfully ATI had a big hand in that or else , yes, nvidia would still have us at 600 bucks for a single GPU card. That's the truth and I love nvidia's products, but the truth is the truth.
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Not really. A 5870 is $400+ and the 5970 is $600+ and you need more than one for the best performance so the high-end market really hasn't changed all that much.
 
dR.Jester said:
I have no interest in eyefinity.
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Small interest here but... in any case, my 2560x1600 makes good use of these cards ;). As far as OMG 500 ZOH NOES, if the performance is there, it will be worth it. Worth is subjective... I would rather have a spectacular time with my gaming than a good one, and since I do a lot of it, it's worthwhile easily. All I see in this thread is "I don't want it so no one else does" rather than any compelling arguments. Also LOL @ people acting like ATI altruistically drove down prices. On pricing, nothing is different now than 10 years ago: high-end costs more and isn't penny-per-penny as efficient but overall much better just like 99% of other products.
 
Krenum said:
seen them selling, but who's buying em? Only a select few I bet.
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Apparently they are selling, not that I would pay that kind of money for either card. The 5870 also seems to be selling for a pretty penny as well.\

GoldenTiger said:
Small interest here but... in any case, my 2560x1600 makes good use of these cards ;). As far as OMG 500 ZOH NOES, if the performance is there, it will be worth it. Worth is subjective... I would rather have a spectacular time with my gaming than a good one, and since I do a lot of it, it's worthwhile easily. All I see in this thread is "I don't want it so no one else does" rather than any compelling arguments. Also LOL @ people acting like ATI altruistically drove down prices. On pricing, nothing is different now than 10 years ago: high-end costs more and isn't penny-per-penny as efficient but overall much better just like 99% of other products.
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I agree with this but there is nothing at the moment that makes me want to ditch my 280, not for the price. Don't get me wrong I would love some more performance but it's not there imo.
 
heatlesssun said:
Not really. A 5870 is $400+ and the 5970 is $600+ and you need more than one for the best performance so the high-end market really hasn't changed all that much.
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400 is not 600 for a 5870 and I find that (for my taste) a reasonable amount of money for a top end flagship single GPU card. The 5970 is a DUAL GPU card so basically 2 x 5870's dumbed down for heat/power concerns and as such 600 is better than 2 5870's at 400 each. So to me that sounds reasonable as well.
 
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