Feeding BS?

Moofasa~ said:
I am sorry if I offended either one of you, I really didn't mean to, I am just trying to voice my small opinion.
Click to expand...

And as you are fiding out, if you have an issue and want to discuss it, we are usually very accessible. Just stick to the forum rules of general civility and we will get through it all. :)
 
Boy, I can't wait till people get this excited about my system evaluations!

People waiting with abated breath as to what PC Compaq, Dell, or Alienware is going to create next...the frenzy of evaluations that hit the web and the orgy of fan boy posts that ensue...

One can dream, eh?
 
i think ive been in the basement for too long as i have no clue as to why people are taking these "ati bashings" so personally. ati certainly wont be going out of bussiness in the near future, and these "ati bashings" can only make ati step up their game, in which it will benefit us the consumer. perhaps being a ati owner requires blind devotion in which case i fail, as i have 2 ati cards :eek:
 
Morley said:
Boy, I can't wait till people get this excited about my system evaluations!

People waiting with abated breath as to what PC Compaq, Dell, or Alienware is going to create next...the frenzy of evaluations that hit the web and the orgy of fan boy posts that ensue...

One can dream, eh?
Click to expand...


I think that is "bated" breath...

Who knows, next week you might in the gun sights of every Falcon Northwest fan on the planet! :D
 
I think Kyle should get out the trusty sledge, for the monday 'conclusion'. :D

..... Just couldn't resist.
 
OldBoy said:
Nobody's saying that your point on availability wasn't dead on. It was just disappointing that the latest front page posts seemed more like unfounded rants than anything. As has been said, a person in your position is held to a higher standard. It's not too much to expect that when commenting on issues you have a full understanding of the topic at hand. The posts were innacurate as to GTO and GTO2 availability and the R520's proper support of SM 3.0 Before making large and critical front page comments on items such as these we would expect that you have fully researched the topics in question.

It's not that you can't make mistakes, it's just that when you rant for paragraphs it's expected that you have a firm knowledge of the topic you're ranting about.

Also, it's not whether you have a bias but whether you're perceived as having one. Your refusal to review the XT coupled with your unfounded derogatory statements about ATI give the impression that you are biased against ATI. That's as bad as if you were actually biased against ATI.

Bottom line, ATI f'd up multiple times and they lied to you and others about availability. That's inexcusable. But that isn't carte blanche to go wildly bashing the company based on incorrect information/assumptions. Call them out, but have a full knowledge about what you're calling them out for before you do.
Click to expand...

If you find our methods and information to not be accurate or if you find the format in which we publish the information to not be to your liking, I fully apologize for that.

I made a correction to the GTO issue within 30 minutes of posting. As for the SM shader issue, we raised some valid questions and quite frankly, they have not been answered yet IMO but we are waiting and asking for help understanding those issues.

So all in all I take issue with your description of our coverage as "wildly bashing" and think that your opinion is somewhat off base. ATI has brought everything on themselves. The director of PR called today and apologized for not informing us about GTO. I think that I am well within my rights to ask the questions about their PR that I did today.

Again, you may not like the questions that I publicly ask, but that is the great thing about the web, if you think a source is BS, then you can certainly move to the next. Consider your thoughts noted.
 
Morley said:
Damn, I even fired up Word to make sure I spelled it correctly...should have studied my Shakespeare and learned me some gooder english...
Click to expand...

Better than spelling it "baited" like I usually do when I use it. Yeah, do that in public once and that is something that will learn ya.
 
And you just simply continue to miss the point Kyle.

Its not your rants saying this product is bad, this company did a no-no, etc. Its simply the fact that: This is all that comes from your mouth these days. A lot of the time these rants seem to have little solid research done before hand. You post before looking deeper or contacting sources.

You often wave around your graphics card evalulation system. Claiming also about how long it takes etc, so why not do the same with your rants. Remember quality > quanity.

I'd simply like to see much more research, links to solid information, quotes proving your stance, etc. A pure opinion based rant is simply pointless, and doubly so when its unfounded and can easily be proven wrong.

Please, continue trying to point out articles that base Nvidia or something in hopes it'll satisfiy some "fanatic"'s hope that you're even sided (something I never directly called into question) I'd simply rather see research improvments made, and possible hesistation on posting rants without solid facts.
 
Bated is related to abated, so means 'lessened': We waited with bated breath to see who had won.
Baited means 'enticed' or 'tormented': The mousetrap was baited with cheese; The class baited the new teacher, trying to make him lose his temper. :)
 
SgtSweatySac said:
It's pretty funny seeing how the tables have turned lately. I remember around the time of the whole FX fiasco, HardOCP was constantly being refered to as an "ATI bitch" because they FX cards did so damn poorly (and I can speak from firsthand experience on that, the FX 5700 Ultra sucked more dick than Linda Lovelace compared to the o-so-overclockable 9800 Pro). Now that ATI has been dropping the ball left and right on X1800 and Crossfire avaliablility, paper-launched the suckfest that is X800 Crossfire, and just in general using hardware review sites as free advertisements for non-existant hardware.

They have every right to be pissed.

Nvidia took their licks from the FX series, and learned from it. The "Dustbuster" debacle told them we wouldn't put up with loud, bulky cooling solutions, the whole "trilinear optimization" controversy told them they need to be honest with their customers (and ATI was found to be using one anyways after causing the ruckus), and the poor avaliablity of high-end parts taught them we don't like to wait for our toys.

So what did they do?

They delivered a product that stomped anything else on the market, had a very quiet single-slot cooling solution, and was avaliable in large quantities at multiple vendors on the day of the launch. ATI has done none of these with this launch on the high end, and [H] can point out the bullshit that gets tossed up by ATI at this point.

But hey, if you want your generic reviews that feature cookie cutter testing and little actual real-world performance, or reviews that show a card you can't fucking buy get 1500 more Penismarks© than the 7800GTX, go read Anandtech or something. Whatever makes you sleep better at night.

Penismarks© and the Penismark© suite of testing products are trademarks of the Sgt.SweatySac Consortium©, and may not be reproduced in any written or electronic form without a signed legal release from my testicles. I will warn you that they don't often get along and like to slap each other during the day.
Click to expand...



Best fuckin' post yet....
 
Skrying said:
And you just simply continue to miss the point Kyle.

Its not your rants saying this product is bad, this company did a no-no, etc. Its simply the fact that: This is all that comes from your mouth these days. A lot of the time these rants seem to have little solid research done before hand. You post before looking deeper or contacting sources.

You often wave around your graphics card evalulation system. Claiming also about how long it takes etc, so why not do the same with your rants. Remember quality > quanity.

I'd simply like to see much more research, links to solid information, quotes proving your stance, etc. A pure opinion based rant is simply pointless, and doubly so when its unfounded and can easily be proven wrong.

Please, continue trying to point out articles that base Nvidia or something in hopes it'll satisfiy some "fanatic"'s hope that you're even sided (something I never directly called into question) I'd simply rather see research improvments made, and possible hesistation on posting rants without solid facts.
Click to expand...

I am sorry you feel that way. Care to quote me on exactly what was published that is incorrect? If you will take time to cut and paste them here, I will make sure they all get addressed. Your blanket statements sort of make it hard for me to fully understand your concerns. I find this sort of criticism much easier to work through if you tell me exactly the statements that you feel were not researched properly. That is generally how we work on the front page, we take companies to task over specifics, not generalities.
 
Kyle, i don't see why you are even wasting your time arguing with these people.... i mean, it's what, 2-3 clicks to ban someone?..........

i really think that you should have a rule that all thread flamers will be temp/perm banned.....

but, whatever.. it's your time, not mine.. lol

i have personally used a FX series and i currently own a X8xx series card..... i really don't care who makes them, or if they're missing a small support for some shader, as long as it runs my games smoothley than i'm happy....


edit: i would also like to point out that reading this thread has been quite amusing....

it is like watching 2 siblings get into an argument, where the older one has already won, but they younger one want's to finish it and wants to end up winning....

younger one being this thread starter...

older sibling being kyle and brent.. lol


atleast this will keep me amused for a wee bit longer till someone decides to lock it...
 
Man, I am taking to long to type my respones, but Skyring, WTF? do you live in a cave? Is your head that far up your ass? There is usually plenty of research to support Kyle's opinions either from Kyle himself, or in this wonderful ATI situation, the numerous other websites covering this situation.
 
SgtSweatySac said:
It's pretty funny seeing how the tables have turned lately. I remember around the time of the whole FX fiasco, HardOCP was constantly being refered to as an "ATI bitch" because they FX cards did so damn poorly (and I can speak from firsthand experience on that, the FX 5700 Ultra sucked more dick than Linda Lovelace compared to the o-so-overclockable 9800 Pro). Now that ATI has been dropping the ball left and right on X1800 and Crossfire avaliablility, paper-launched the suckfest that is X800 Crossfire, and just in general using hardware review sites as free advertisements for non-existant hardware.

They have every right to be pissed.

Nvidia took their licks from the FX series, and learned from it. The "Dustbuster" debacle told them we wouldn't put up with loud, bulky cooling solutions, the whole "trilinear optimization" controversy told them they need to be honest with their customers (and ATI was found to be using one anyways after causing the ruckus), and the poor avaliablity of high-end parts taught them we don't like to wait for our toys.

So what did they do?

They delivered a product that stomped anything else on the market, had a very quiet single-slot cooling solution, and was avaliable in large quantities at multiple vendors on the day of the launch. ATI has done none of these with this launch on the high end, and [H] can point out the bullshit that gets tossed up by ATI at this point.

But hey, if you want your generic reviews that feature cookie cutter testing and little actual real-world performance, or reviews that show a card you can't fucking buy get 1500 more Penismarks© than the 7800GTX, go read Anandtech or something. Whatever makes you sleep better at night.

Penismarks© and the Penismark© suite of testing products are trademarks of the Sgt.SweatySac Consortium©, and may not be reproduced in any written or electronic form without a signed legal release from my testicles. I will warn you that they don't often get along and like to slap each other during the day.
Click to expand...

I prefer ATI products, and have nothing bad to say about Nvidia as a company, i'll say that right off so that it wont be questioned later. But the point is not that insult toward ATI is happening, its that its nameless, rushed, and getting no better then a mis-informed forum rant. And maybe im crazy, but Nvidias hard launch of 1 card does not mean ATI is under the same pressure for every card, nor does it change my mind into this ATI=evil for paper launching, which is so common around here its pretty pathetic. Basically by the last week in november every next gen ATI card should be on the market. Thats about 1 month for what we enthusiasts care about 2 for the whole shabang. Nvidia has been rolling on the GTX for; going on 4 months and the GT for just over 1 month. So i hope ATI gets respect where its due around holiday time for a fantastic and unprecedented launch. Nvidia prepaired far in advance for that GTX launch, ATI is coming through in same fassion with the XL, gearing up for a launch of every other card in rapid succession. It only took a few days for e-tailers to have their first cards in stock as promised, some below MSRP. This is a far cry from what a paper launch was so ATI deserves credit.

The forums are already so unforgiving to ATI that my personal feelings, especially with the comments very publically toward ATI from this site, is that it should collect itself, thats all. ATI is fixing their problems so i see any further complaints toward them or their products to be really baseless and after the fact. Not once did anyone ask where the 7200/7600 or vanilla 7800 are. Or the multiple 90nm Nvidia products that they claimed would be launching around this time. I see this questioned no where.

As to the vertex fetch, ATI's implimentation meets all requirements of SM3.0 per API. If you have a problem with this i suggest you wait until it actually proves to be a problem. There is talk that how ATI implimented this will be close to what the DX10 will be doing. They forgot nothing, they lack nothing. They made a design decision and so they stick with it. Rather then add insult to injury, injury being the thrashing ATI has recieved, why dont we leave the whole implimentation story until it matters.

*not all comments are directed to the person i quoted, or anyone else in particuliar.
 
Skrying said:
And you just simply continue to miss the point Kyle.
Click to expand...
Skrying said:
Oh well, I'm done with this place.
Click to expand...
I truly enjoy debating the whole ATI vs. NVIDIA on this forum. However, I would never go so far as to take it personal. Neither company knows who I am, nor do they care. Their job is to sell video cards and make their investors happy.

So go ahead and leave if this one slice of the computer world has upset you. I will simply sit back, have a drink and enjoy the show.
 
sparky1_2007 said:
Kyle, i don't see why you are even wasting your time arguing with these people.... i mean, it's what, 2-3 clicks to ban someone?..........

i really think that you should have a rule that all thread flamers will be temp/perm banned.....
Click to expand...
what would that solve?? pretty soon there would be no users left.
 
Shifra said:
And maybe im crazy, but Nvidias hard launch of 1 card does not mean ATI is under the same pressure for every card,
Click to expand...
7800GTX, 7800GT, 6100/6150, 7800Go, etc.
 
PRIME1 said:
I will simply sit back, have a drink and enjoy the show.
Click to expand...


Thats what i'm doing right now...and listening to some kick ass FF7 remix songs...



Also one thing ati needs a swift kick in the ass to get moving...lets put it this way...what IF and it's only a what IF...what if nvidia does another [H]ARD same day supply launch?

What IF? And what IF the next card nVidia releases is a beefed up version of the GTX...i mean it's all what IF's. but it can happen...also nvidia does have plans for a 512meg version, found here in this article http://www.driverheaven.net/dhinterviews/adamfoat2/
Here is a quote
Allan: ATI are due for a release shortly, what will be Nvidia's answer (well you can't blame me for trying!)?

Adam: Why am I getting so many question relating to the “Red” team? ;-) I personally think that we have to see if they have answered a few things first. One hint I will give you though, watch this space for our own 512MB board.…
Click to expand...

But do we know what it's clocks are? do we know if it has more features? do we even know if it will kill ati's x1800XT card? No we don't...We do know one thing. and i can't remember where i saw it. But nVidia said they will not give up the crown ever again. (don't quote me on this as i can't find the place i saw it)

So we have alot of what IF's coming out. All we can do is wait and see...But as of right now ati needs to get off the couch and fucking get moving... :eek:
 
Correct me if I'm wrong, I think the addition of vertex fetch was one of the big changes from SM 2.0 to SM 3.0, so with that, how many games fully use SM 3.0 to where vertex fetch would make a difference?
 
PRIME1 said:
7800GTX, 7800GT, 6100/6150, 7800Go, etc.
Click to expand...



uh, those launched like every other card we've seen, pretty much ever. After the initial flag ship launch all subsequent launches go almost exactly how the GT, and every other card you named, did. Just because Nvidia gave absolutly no timeline doesnt mean we werent waiting for the cards after the GTX. ATI gave a timeline so its a paper launch?

Frankly the total riddence of a paper launch will be when every card is available on day 1. Not when ATI gives a line up with dates or when Nvidia decides to not announce or release a card until they have it. We know a 512 GTX is coming, they have said as much, is that a paper launch Prime? Either way we're waiting for products. So i really think ATI is doing a better thing here with rappid launching rather then this spaced thing Nvidia did. Both companies are doing good things for releases. But the GTX does not wipe the slate clean. 1 card, and just one, we still waited and still are, for the rest, which we do know are coming, announced or not.
 
Shifra said:
We know a 512 GTX is coming, they have said as much, is that a paper launch Prime?
Click to expand...
It's a paper launch when a company officially "launches" the product and you can not buy it in the stores. When they send product to review sites and tell them it's here, so that the review sites post information on the product and yet you still can not buy it. Rumors are not a launch. Crossfire and X1800XT are paper launches for sure.
 
PRIME1 said:
It's a paper launch when a company officially "launches" the product and you can not buy it in the stores. When they send product to review sites and tell them it's here, so that the review sites post information on the product and yet you still can not buy it. Rumors are not a launch. Crossfire and X1800XT are paper launches for sure.
Click to expand...

yes but my point is Nvidia is not following through any better. The best thing the GTX had going was that it was a surprise pretty much. Day 1 availability completely shocked everyone. But we're past that now, and they still only have 2 cards to that series and we do know more are coming, so it may as well be a paper launch as far as im concerned. With or without a preview, we do know the products are coming but we're waiting months after the flagship launch. Would do no harm to me personally if a preview popped up about the vanilla 7800 or 7600. People may cry Nvidia sucks, paper launching back, but I know they're on the way. So whats a preview gonna hurt.

All we have gotten rid of is flagship paper launching. We're still right where we were pretty much as far as the rest goes. More so with nvidia with how long its taken them to release the rest of the series, verdict still out to see if ATI can do it in such a short time.
 
Shifra said:
uh, those launched like every other card we've seen, pretty much ever. After the initial flag ship launch all subsequent launches go almost exactly how the GT, and every other card you named, did. Just because Nvidia gave absolutly no timeline doesnt mean we werent waiting for the cards after the GTX. ATI gave a timeline so its a paper launch?

Frankly the total riddence of a paper launch will be when every card is available on day 1. Not when ATI gives a line up with dates or when Nvidia decides to not announce or release a card until they have it. We know a 512 GTX is coming, they have said as much, is that a paper launch Prime? Either way we're waiting for products. So i really think ATI is doing a better thing here with rappid launching rather then this spaced thing Nvidia did. Both companies are doing good things for releases. But the GTX does not wipe the slate clean. 1 card, and just one, we still waited and still are, for the rest, which we do know are coming, announced or not.
Click to expand...


There is diffrence between launching a product without a timiline and not launching a product in a given timeline.

in this case ATI could very well not have given a timeline for its x1800 launch but they choose to do it, probably because of growing impatience of review sites like [H] and their customers ofcourse.
 
I truly enjoy debating the whole ATI vs. NVIDIA on this forum. However, I would never go so far as to take it personal. Neither company knows who I am, nor do they care. Their job is to sell video cards and make their investors happy.

So go ahead and leave if this one slice of the computer world has upset you. I will simply sit back, have a drink and enjoy the show.
Click to expand...

I agree with you 100%. Who gives a crap who bashes who. Im just here to watch nVidia and ATI's rivarly continue. There will always be competition and this will be NO different than the beginning of 2006 when AMD and Intel release their 65nm chips. Both will now be on DDR2 and im anxious to see how they perform. Again, in those forums, there will be bashing from both sides, but who cares! In the end, we win. Look at this. nVidia released the 7800GTX @ an MSRP of $599. It was ridiculuous at the time, but a few months later, the price dropped substantsialy. Now I can pick one up for low $400. ATI just came out with them (and even though they like to keep their stuff overpriced for a while) nVidia customers will be happy as prices will continue to decrease on the GTX and newer technology will come out due to competition from the X1800XT.
If your going to bash Kyle for posting whatever about ATi, even though most of it is true (they did paper launch----UH-gain and CF & x1800 are basically nowhere to be found), then go enjoy a nice quality video card from 3dfx, you know, one of them voodoo's? Thatll get you good FPS in Doom. I mean it was new technology at one time..right? Take a chill and enjoy the war that is nVidia vs ATi.
 
Shifra said:
All we have gotten rid of is flagship paper launching.
Click to expand...
We have? How is that X1800XT running for you? It seems to be giving you a good frame rate in denial.
 
swatX said:
There is diffrence between launching a product without a timiline and not launching a product in a given timeline.

in this case ATI could very well not have given a timeline for its x1800 launch but they choose to do it, probably because of growing impatience of review sites like [H] and their customers ofcourse.
Click to expand...


So if, for speculation sake, Nvidia did this chart in their GTX launch that would be bad or good? Have we really gotten past a paper launch? I dont think so.

Card----------Availability

7800 GTX -----NOW
7800 GT -------August
7800 Vanilla--November
7600GT -------December
7600 Vanilla- December
 
Shifra said:
they still only have 2 cards to that series and we do know more are coming, so it may as well be a paper launch as far as im concerned.
Click to expand...
To be perfectly honest, nVidia doesn't need to release newer 7x00 series mid/low range. Why? Because their cards already outperform ATIs new offerings at a much lower price point. Unless ATI releases some greatly increasing performance enhancing drivers, ATI will still only win with their currently unavailable XT.

nVidia's 6x00 mid/low range and their 7x00 high range are still the top performers for the price. 6600GT is at ~$140 and beats the tar out of the X1300Pro at $150 (twice it's performance).

Then there are the rumors of a 512MB nVidia card that is supposedly not a GTX and based on 90nm to compete with the XT...
 
PRIME1 said:
We have? How is that X1800XT running for you? It seems to be giving you a good frame rate in denial.
Click to expand...



im sorry? The XL is the flagship for the time being i dont think sarcasm or you being a total jackass is required just yet. Please try to remain normal
 
Shifra said:
im sorry? The XL is the flagship for the time being i dont think sarcasm or you being a total jackass is required just yet. Please try to remain normal
Click to expand...
Boy you have no sense of humor, the statement was quite funny.
 
Shifra said:
im sorry? The XL is the flagship for the time being i dont think sarcasm or you being a total jackass is required just yet. Please try to remain normal
Click to expand...
That's because the XT was paper launched.

See, now you understand how paper launches can be a problem. It's got you totally confused.
 
kcthebrewer said:
To be perfectly honest, nVidia doesn't need to release newer 7x00 series mid/low range. Why? Because their cards already outperform ATIs new offerings at a much lower price point. Unless ATI releases some greatly increasing performance enhancing drivers, ATI will still only win with their currently unavailable XT.

nVidia's 6x00 mid/low range and their 7x00 high range are still the top performers for the price. 6600GT is at ~$140 and beats the tar out of the X1300Pro at $150 (twice it's performance).

Then there are the rumors of a 512MB nVidia card that is supposedly not a GTX and based on 90nm to compete with the XT...
Click to expand...

Technically we dont need any new cards. Just that new product line-ups are always launched together. Its a shortcoming that you're being forgiving to. There will be a 7800, 7600 and 7200, why say they dont need it when they will be released. Whats it going to matter if its now or christmas time? Will be suddenly need them one, two, three months from now?

you also compare MSRP of an unreleased to e-tailer price drops, thats kind of unfair.
 
Shifra said:
im sorry? The XL is the flagship for the time being i dont think sarcasm or you being a total jackass is required just yet. Please try to remain normal
Click to expand...

check yourself...
 
PRIME1 said:
That's because the XT was paper launched.

See, now you understand how paper launches can be a problem. It's got you totally confused.
Click to expand...

What Nvidia is doing can still be considered a paper launch though dont you get it? We are still waiting for products we know are coming, thats the whole hate behind a paper launch is the wait. Nobody cared about reading up on new tech and whats its bringing, it was just the stupid wait. Now we have nothing to read and are still waiting. Why is that so hard for you to grasp or does your bias blind you to anything Nvidia does that might be not as good as it appears? GTX was great, can be considered a mile stone i guess, but after the fact, im unimpressed. Months later riding on 2 cards, ATI sure does fail at planning to launch everything within 2 months and telling us about it. :rolleyes: please
 
Shifra said:
What Nvidia is doing can still be considered a paper launch though dont you get it? We are still waiting for products we know are coming, thats the whole hate behind a paper launch is the wait. Nobody cared about reading up on new tech and whats its bringing, it was just the stupid wait. Now we have nothing to read and are still waiting. Why is that so hard for you to grasp or does your bias blind you to anything Nvidia does that might be not as good as it appears?
Click to expand...
Paper launch = company has announced something that isn't available.

Crossfire is the best example I can give.

nVidia has never officially stated anything about releasing any other lower end 7x00 series cards, you just assumed.
 
kcthebrewer said:
Paper launch = company has announced something that isn't available.

Crossfire is the best example I can give.

nVidia has never officially stated anything about releasing any other lower end 7x00 series cards, you just assumed.
Click to expand...


i have assumed nothing, its common knowledge a 90nm Vanilla 7800 has been in the launch plan for awhile, a 7600 and 7200 will follow up later.

What we hate about a paper launch is waiting for products, i dont think anyone is going to complain about the articles that came as a result, just the wait. main point being we still have that wait but no preview from nvidia. Only exception being the GTX, again a good thing. But as far as how the rest is being launch, its somehow better then releasing a launch plan with a nice write up....no its really not.
 
Shifra said:
i have assumed nothing, its common knowledge a 90nm Vanilla 7800 has been in the launch plan for awhile, a 7600 and 7200 will follow up later.

What we hate about a paper launch is waiting for products, i dont think anyone is going to complain about the articles that came as a result, just the wait. main point being we still have that wait but no preview from nvidia. And thast somehow better then releasing a launch plan with a nice write up.
Click to expand...
Now your being the funny one :)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top