FCC Declares CableCARD a Failure

Terry Olaes

Terry Olaes

I Used to be the [H] News Guy
Joined
Nov 27, 2006
Messages
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The FCC apparently has decided that the CableCARD mandate made 10 years ago is kaput and needs to be reworked. I guess having only 14 devices that meet the requirements after a decade of work is a pretty good indicator that things aren’t moving the way you want them.

All we can say is "wow" at this point. The Genachowski-led FCC has been relentless in its effort to disrupt the status quo. In office for six months, Genachowski and team are drafting a national broadband plan; working on net neutrality rules; fingering companies like Google, Apple, and Verizon; dealing with spectrum reallocation; handling the nuts-and-bolts of white space device deployment; threatening to extend neutrality rules to wireless networks; and considering the transition from traditional circuit-switched phone networks to a full-IP communications network. Now, we can add "shaking up the cable industry" to the list.
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Maybe it's because I live in Canada, but I can honestly say I have no idea what CableCARD is, nor have I ever seen it. It sure sounds clunky and unnecessary, though.
 
You have 4 Channel DVRs, 1080i/p support, and VOD. Quit complaining.
 
Thank you. I'll be glad if they can remove the Cable Companies vice grip on set top boxes.
 
sear said:
Maybe it's because I live in Canada, but I can honestly say I have no idea what CableCARD is, nor have I ever seen it. It sure sounds clunky and unnecessary, though.
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The idea is to give people the option to move off of setup boxes as I understand it. I could go on a tirade as to all the reasons why a provider wouldn't want to support this, but I don't wanna be held liable. Try to imagine it a bit like Itunes or Steam. To provide digital services we have to have some control over how the content is used. Opening up the doors is no easy task with no benefit to a cable provider.
 
piscian18 said:
The idea is to give people the option to move off of setup boxes as I understand it. I could go on a tirade as to all the reasons why a provider wouldn't want to support this, but I don't wanna be held liable. Try to imagine it a bit like Itunes or Steam. To provide digital services we have to have some control over how the content is used. Opening up the doors is no easy task with no benefit to a cable provider.
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Which benefits the consumers..poor poor cable companies.

I like what the FCC is trying to do to benefit the consumer, but I think they're trying to tackle way too much in such a short period of time.
 
Mostly they are a failure because no one at the cable companies understands how they work or what to do with them. You should see the folks at the tivo community forums complain about how no one knows what to do with them. It generally seems like, in fact, the cable companies don't want to support them, and so they purposely obstruct. Imagine that.
 
GreenMonkey said:
Mostly they are a failure because no one at the cable companies understands how they work or what to do with them. You should see the folks at the tivo community forums complain about how no one knows what to do with them. It generally seems like, in fact, the cable companies don't want to support them, and so they purposely obstruct. Imagine that.
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This couldn't be more true. I have had so many cable technicians come and go from my house trying to diagnose a problem with the CableCARDs in my Tivo box and none of them know what to do. Between that and the tuning adapter they give you it seems like so much extra hardware for nothing. They said that they're developing a "2-way" CableCARD that will do away with tuning adapters altogether, but I doubt it'll be anytime soon.

I know they need to be able to control access rights, but I'm actually paying for the service and I don't get it half the time.
 
If they didn't lock non-OEM HTPC out and had VOD from the start I bet it wouldn't have been a failure.
 
Deviationer said:
If they didn't lock non-OEM HTPC out and had VOD from the start I bet it wouldn't have been a failure.
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It still would have been dead even if the computer oem certification requirement wasn't there. Cablecard needed to be a standard feature in TVs, it wasn't
 
Keiichi said:
It still would have been dead even if the computer oem certification requirement wasn't there. Cablecard needed to be a standard feature in TVs, it wasn't
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I doubt that. If the cable company cert wasn't required that would mean that you could go out today and see a plethora of tuner cards that would have been compatible with your current cable service. Right now there's maybe 2 or 3 cards that actually support it and even those require WMC. The reason behind this is that in order to get a cert you have to go through many hoops just to qualify.
 
kac77 said:
I doubt that. If the cable company cert wasn't required that would mean that you could go out today and see a plethora of tuner cards that would have been compatible with your current cable service. Right now there's maybe 2 or 3 cards that actually support it and even those require WMC. The reason behind this is that in order to get a cert you have to go through many hoops just to qualify.
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HTPCs are still a niche market. Only enthusiasts and rich people use em to watch TV. For anything to be considered a success it needs to be a standard feature on a television.
 
The real problem is the cable companies charge as much for 'renting' a cablecard as they do for a cablecard and an entire set top box.

I can choose to rent their set top box with a cable card in it, and if it breaks they have to replace it.

OR

I can choose to pay hundreds to buy my own set top box, then pay them THE SAME AMOUNT just for the cablecard rental alone. If the device breaks I have to pay the price to replace it too.

For cablecard to succeed I need to have the option to purchase my own equipment and not have to pay a rental fee - what use is it owning my own set top box if the cable company can just give me a tiny little card and still charge me as much for that as they do for a big piece of expensive equipment?
 
Ualdayan said:
The real problem is the cable companies charge as much for 'renting' a cablecard as they do for a cablecard and an entire set top box.

I can choose to rent their set top box with a cable card in it, and if it breaks they have to replace it.

OR

I can choose to pay hundreds to buy my own set top box, then pay them THE SAME AMOUNT just for the cablecard rental alone. If the device breaks I have to pay the price to replace it too.

For cablecard to succeed I need to have the option to purchase my own equipment and not have to pay a rental fee - what use is it owning my own set top box if the cable company can just give me a tiny little card and still charge me as much for that as they do for a big piece of expensive equipment?
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My local cable co's rental fees are ok - $2/mo per card. The installation is what kills me, though - $42. That's right.....fourty two dollars to slide a card in, then call customer service and activate it.

When I step up to a Ceton tuner (hopefully soon) I don't look forward to that. If only I could buy my own CableCard.....
 
EPS Sniper said:
This couldn't be more true. I have had so many cable technicians come and go from my house trying to diagnose a problem with the CableCARDs in my Tivo box and none of them know what to do. Between that and the tuning adapter they give you it seems like so much extra hardware for nothing. They said that they're developing a "2-way" CableCARD that will do away with tuning adapters altogether, but I doubt it'll be anytime soon.

I know they need to be able to control access rights, but I'm actually paying for the service and I don't get it half the time.
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What you guys don't seme to understand is that Cable Companies did not design the CableCard, nor do they build the devices that use it. Blame the FCC for creating such a flawed product, and device manufacturers for lack of support.

As someone who has more experience than most with cable cards I can honestly say they are for shit, and would personally have nothing to do with them. The government always seems to have "good intentions" but fails at most things it does.

As far "2-way" cable cards, Tru 2 Way is already available in some markets and supported by major manufacturers. This is an initiative backed by the cable companies as should make all of you happy.
 
the idea was always grand, but its not out of reach by any means. hdtv's should ALL have been cablecard equipped, but i agree that cablecard standard sucks and thats the real reason it was never adapted fully.

if they make an open source slot in every tv, one that can accept a dish network card, a direct tv card, a comcast cablecard,... see where im getting at? this is what the fcc wanted, a free and open slot on all tv's so anyone is able to get service from any provider without a lot of extra costs or hassle.

here's hoping they get it right this time. and for someone to say 'the fcc is trying to do too much in too little time'... gimme a break. this is all they do, they have all day every day. we always complain the government is too slow, im glad the fcc is finally starting to look half respectable.
 
So does this mean they are gonna discontinue the cablecard? what about the ceton cards that are coming out? What was the point of allowing Win7to use a cablecard if the tech is a failure?
 
I was really hoping they would get this right sooner or later, going back to the drawing board sucks but at least they recognize thier failings. Verizon pretended to not know what I was talking about when I asked about a cablecard and when I checked Tivo's forums and saw the headache people were going through I dropped the idea and just got a box...learned later from the tech that the cable card rental was the same cost as a box later so that tabled my htpc notions too as the "savings" and flexibility didnt add up to enough...

here's hoping they get something ironed out this time around...
 
I barely know what CableCARD is, or what exactly it does. I just know that when I did some research on HTPC's awhile back I decided I wanted to avoid it. I guess if the FCC wants to ditch it, that makes things a bit easier?
 
As a tech in the industry I've seen many ccard solutions fail because the vendor does not stick to the standards setup by CableLabs. I went to one trouble call where the customer was getting great signal with no interference (and being as close to a couple of broadcast towers that in itself was amazing) and his tv was still pixalating. Being the 3rd tech out I called the tv manufacturer for him and found out they based their digital tuner on getting a signal much higher than what the cablelabs had put out. I explained to them that the signal requirements they wanted was actually more than we put out on a tap (the customer connection off the main line), much less what they would get on an outlet after distance and splitters. They said that was our problem and not theirs. Thats why the cable card idea was such a failure.

As far as the set top boxes go, the reason they are not just sold outright is content control. If a customer owned their own set top box they legally have the right to modify it, allowing them to unlock content without paying for it. If the box is rented, they have no such ability legally. With the rise and fall of the infamous black boxes of the analog era the cable companies (and now it seems DBS companies as well) did not want that to happen. Plus, the equipment used to broadcast on say a Scientific Atlanta platform will not work on a Motorola platform, and right now those are pretty much the only two players here in the states for digital cable broadcast.

What would be nice is if tv's could be made like cable modems. All the cable company would have to do is record the serial number and mac address, add it to the account and bingo the tv is connected. Then have the tv broadcast back to the cable company what firmware it was using and what channels it has unlocked so the cable company can make sure it complies with what the customer is paying for and it would work out great. However, I doubt that either Cisco (who owns Sci-Atlanta now) nor Motorola want to see that since they have such a stranglehold on the market, so blame them for this fiasco as well.
 
I had a customer a few weeks ago that said cable has been coming around his area and replacing the CableCards with Set top boxes, and this was the techs 4th call doing the same thing for that day. Looks like they have already been removing them and shutting down the service for at least a few weeks now and have been sending out notices to customers.

It is just a mess between TV manufacturers and Cable providers to get it running, had more issues with the TV's than cable. The bigger problem with Cable didn't train there CSR's how to properly marry the devices.
 
itll be 5+ years now before we see a new standard adopted, if at all. hdpvr will have to suffice
 
Hmm.. Well I dont know if it will be successful, however if it's something the cable companies wont like, I'm all up for it.
 
sear said:
Maybe it's because I live in Canada, but I can honestly say I have no idea what CableCARD is, nor have I ever seen it. It sure sounds clunky and unnecessary, though.
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Not clunky at all. Quite the opposite actually. For example, you'll see a lot of households with HD Tivo and HD Comcast box. Why the extra hassle of two boxes? Extra wiring, extra remote, extra heat, extra electricity, extra space in your entertainment center.

CableCARD is a PCMCIA card that plugs into a DCT (digital cable tuner) PC-Card slot. HD Tivo has that. Plug in your Comcast CableCARD and viola, you have HD cable through your Tivo instead of having an extra box.

The problem in the past was that we were not allowed to build computers with DCT cards that take CableCARD because CableLabs and Comcast said so. Microsoft struck a deal with CableLabs to allow Windows 7 Media Center users to use CableCARD in DIY media centers. Now we can buy DCT cards like the ATI external DCT or their internal counterpart
 
I love my cablecard...........no box and can use the original TV remote.

I keep getting pressure from Cox cable to switch over to the box. Some of the newer channels wont work with the cablecard I guess.

Im waiting for FIOS............uses cablecard.....
 
CableCard failed because the cable companies wanted it to fail.
 
No problems with Comcast and 2 m-stream cablecards in my Tivo HD. Specifically asked for a tech that was familiar with this when I called for installation.

No charge for initial card and 2nd card only costs $2 per month.
 
RogueTrip said:
I had a customer a few weeks ago that said cable has been coming around his area and replacing the CableCards with Set top boxes, and this was the techs 4th call doing the same thing for that day. Looks like they have already been removing them and shutting down the service for at least a few weeks now and have been sending out notices to customers.

It is just a mess between TV manufacturers and Cable providers to get it running, had more issues with the TV's than cable. The bigger problem with Cable didn't train there CSR's how to properly marry the devices.
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Um, the reason for switching out cable cards with "defeatured boxes" is because most MSO's are using various forms of SDV, and therefore cablecard customer's won't be able to receive some or all digital channels.
 
Tanis143 said:
What would be nice is if tv's could be made like cable modems. All the cable company would have to do is record the serial number and mac address, add it to the account and bingo the tv is connected. Then have the tv broadcast back to the cable company what firmware it was using and what channels it has unlocked so the cable company can make sure it complies with what the customer is paying for and it would work out great. However, I doubt that either Cisco (who owns Sci-Atlanta now) nor Motorola want to see that since they have such a stranglehold on the market, so blame them for this fiasco as well.
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That is essentialy what Tru 2 Way is.

On a side note, in my opinion 10 years from now if not sooner, traditional tv broadcasts will be obsolete. Providers like Comcast and Time Warner may be known more as internet providers than cable tv. Dish and DirecTV employees may want to start jumping ship...
 
Pabuchok said:
That is essentialy what Tru 2 Way is.

On a side note, in my opinion 10 years from now if not sooner, traditional tv broadcasts will be obsolete. Providers like Comcast and Time Warner may be known more as internet providers than cable tv. Dish and DirecTV employees may want to start jumping ship...
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It's also possible that the Dish and DirecTV people will become content clearinghouse/providers for smaller broadband companies. The smaller companies that can;t afford to purchase content more directly will stream Dish content over their networks to more remote areas that are not covered by the big high-speed Internet providers. It's already being done in many places using various last-mile technologies...
 
I saw the cablecard thing coming as soon as the big TV manufacturers stopped making cablecard an installed feature in their HDTVs a couple of years ago. Anyone should have seen this writing on the wall when they started to make network connections and Internet apps the big installed feature rather than cablecard.
 
EPS Sniper said:
This couldn't be more true. I have had so many cable technicians come and go from my house trying to diagnose a problem with the CableCARDs in my Tivo box and none of them know what to do. Between that and the tuning adapter they give you it seems like so much extra hardware for nothing. They said that they're developing a "2-way" CableCARD that will do away with tuning adapters altogether, but I doubt it'll be anytime soon.

I know they need to be able to control access rights, but I'm actually paying for the service and I don't get it half the time.
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The bigger problem is that CableCARD was created by edict.

CableCARD was forced on the cable companies by a vengeful FCC, who was then forced to turn to the CEA to implement it in consumer electronics (TVs, DVRs and the like). Neither the NCTA or CEA wanted any part of CableCARD (most companies want no part of government mandates); what is amazing is that it has worked as well as it has!

I own a CableCARD-ready TV (Philips 42PF7320A/37A; one of the last of Philips' CableCARD-ready TVs sold in North America), and while it does actually work as it's supposeed to, that is simply untrue for the majority of CableCARD-ready devices.

How many governement mandates (from ANY government) have worked exactly how they were designed to work? (And how many others were bent/twisted/warped darn near completely out of shape so that they had no chance to work how they were supposed to work?)

Let's look at the Tivo Series 3 (one of the few CableCARD-ready devices still available for consumer purchase). It's not that it supports CableCARD that has kept it around (Sony's DVR supported CableCARD before Tivo manufactured their first S3, yet it died a very quiet death) - it stayed alive because of the rest of the package (the Tivo service which is part and parcel of every Tivo). Tivo as a service is not cheap; however, it offers added value that consumers want. Without added value, expensive products (and CableCARD costs more as a VERY expensive option for TVs) simply won't sell, even if they work as they are supposed to. CableCARD as a PRODUCT actually works well - as a value-add, it was a horrendous failure (because it was priced out of proportion to the perceived value). In short, marketing/implementation failure; not design failure.
 
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