Fan replacement for Liqtech TR4 360 AIO?

Discussion in 'Water Cooling' started by Flapjack, Aug 24, 2018.

  1. Flapjack

    Flapjack 2[H]4U

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    I've had the Enermax Liqtech TR4 360 AIO running for about on my Threadripper 1950x inside of a Thermaltake Core P90 case. After a few months, I noticed what honestly sounded like a "gurgling" sound. I immediately attributed it to the block/radiator and double/triple-checked my connections to the headers, settings in BIOS, etc, to ensure there was only a constant, max voltage going to the pump (there was). Since the sound seemed to come from the radiator, I used my fingers to stop the fans one by one, and the middle one was the culprit. I unplugged it, since this is my work PC as well as my gaming rig (not overclocked yet) and I was starting to lose my sanity.

    The inop fan has been in the back of my mind, but I hadn't worried about it too much... until yesterday. This time, it was a different, much louder noise coming from the top fan. The good thing is that it's only when it's spinning really fast, ie, when gaming.

    So I put in a ticket with Enermax and it seems like they are just going to send me some new fans. But I'll probably go through this all over again when the replacement fans (assuming they're the same) start making noise.

    Has anyone replaced these fans with something better? I don't want to add more noise, but if there is a fan that flows better without much/any additional noise, and is more reliable, I'd definitely want to change.

    Suggestions?
     
  2. cyberguyz

    cyberguyz Gawd

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    Those fans are really good as far as static pressure go and are relatively quiet. They are well suited to radiator duty. They also use something called a "twister" bearing which really isn't much more than a sleeve beraring

    These are considered the cream of the 120mm static pressure fans crop.
    Noctua NF-F12 industrialPPC-3000 PWM
    https://www.amazon.com/Focused-NF-F12-iPPC-3000-PWM/dp/B00KFCRATC
    Static pressure up to 7.63 mmH2O (slightly better than the Enermax stock fan 6.28 mm-H2O ) and can push a very respectable 110cfm @ 3000rpm (You would want to use the PWM version to control the noise)

    Most others come in at only about half of that. If I ever need to replace my Enermax fans, I will choose those.
     
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  3. Flapjack

    Flapjack 2[H]4U

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    I've been out of the cooling world for so long... only having time to work and maybe some casual gaming. With this build, I'm trying to get back into everything. I've never even heard of the term "static pressure" fan.

    I went ahead and ordered the fans. They look great.
     
  4. Dermen

    Dermen Limp Gawd

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    Static pressure is a rating that shows how the fan overcomes restrictions, like a radiator.

    Full speed on that Noctua fan is 3000rpm, that will be loud. I probably would have went with the 2000rpm version.

    Yes you can just restrict higher speed fans but the lower speed fan will have a lower minimum speed for idle. That 3000rpm Noctua's min speed is 750rpm, the 2000rpm version has a min speed of 450rpm. Most people who want a quiet idle keep there fans in the 5-600rpm range.
     
  5. Flapjack

    Flapjack 2[H]4U

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    Damn it. I really don't want anything louder than I have now. I wonder if it's too late to cancel the order.

    **EDIT**
    I wasn't able to cancel automatically, but I sent an email with the request... hopefully they get it in time.

    Would this be the one I'd need?
    https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835608051
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2018
  6. Archmage

    Archmage 2[H]4U

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    Edit: [H] class of 2000 gang! Damn, Flapjack predates me... :)

    If you're going with Noctua, then:

    I'd go with the newest Noctua NF-A12x25: Up to 2000 RPM, but relatively quiet all the way to 1500 RPM.

    - amazon links to the different varieties of this fan in the description


    https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Noctua/NF-A12x25_PWM/5.html

    Google for website reviews from TechPowerup, vortez, etc...


    https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIAADY76X3131 - PWM variety

    It looks like one of the best 120mm fans available for the performance/noise metric. It's just expensive.

    But Noctua is quality and should last a long time, and I guess no one else has their sterrox fan blade material, which may have paid off on this model. I'd like to see some more reviews though...
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2018
  7. Dermen

    Dermen Limp Gawd

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    That is the 2000rpm version yes. The fan Archmage listed might be better. Personally I have Phanteks F120MP fans, they are cheaper and on the quiet side.
     
  8. Archmage

    Archmage 2[H]4U

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    Yea, that Phanteks F120MP looks especially good in the 1250 RPM chart of the TechPowerUp review I posted. Depending on the sound profile and bearing longevity, it may be a better value than the Noctua. I'm still happy with my Gentle Typhoons (which didn't do well in that chart, surprisingly) ... I like them better than my Corsair ML 140's.
     
  9. Flapjack

    Flapjack 2[H]4U

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    Ok. Pretty much what I figured it was. I just didn't know there were fans designed to overcome that. Very good to know.

    I really don't feel like screwing around (too much) with the fan curves in the BIOS. Just being in there irritates me, lol. Still, it's amazing to see that level of flexibility in the BIOS, compared to what I cut my teeth on. :D

    Yeah... it's been a while. I still remember the days of tupperware watercooling and 10,000rpm air coolers. What the fuck were we thinking?

    Thanks for all the links/reviews. I ended up going with the Phanteks. Both have great reviews on NewEgg, but the Phanteks has 3x the reviews of the Nocutas. Plus, price was a big factor. From what I've read watched (again, thanks for the links), the Noctuas don't seem worth the added premium. Good fans, for sure, but 3x more?

    One thing I keep considering is the "open" nature of my case. I have the Thermaltake P90, so I'm curious if these fans do better or worse when operating in the lower differential pressure environment of a open-style case like the P90.

    Oh well... I don't have time for the crazy nitpickiness I used to have. I have yet to overclock this system, which still bothers me a bit. Maybe when I catch up on work/projects.
     
  10. Flapjack

    Flapjack 2[H]4U

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    Enermax is crazy! (in a good way)

    Before deciding to get new fans, I submitted a ticket request to have the fans replaced (actually, for the first fan... then updated the ticket when the second one started making noise). I even wrote specifically that I wasn't having any problems with the rest of the kit, because I was worried they would want me to send the whole thing back. They ended up sending me a brand new kit, along with a nice letter apologizing for the inconvenience, as well as a set of earbuds.

    Not used to that kind of customer service!
     

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  11. DedEmbryonicCe11

    DedEmbryonicCe11 [H]ard|Gawd

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    I just installed two of the Noctua NF-A12x25 and the noise isn't "bad" at stock 2000 RPM. I'm sure at 1600 RPM or below they would be tolerable to almost everyone.
     
  12. Flapjack

    Flapjack 2[H]4U

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    I have both sets of fans (there was no way to cancel the order over the weekend), so I may as well try them both.
     
  13. EnermaxUSA-SupportTeam

    EnermaxUSA-SupportTeam Official Enermax

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    Thanks for your support. :)

    If you have any questions in the future, we are here to help.

    - Enermax USA Support Team
     
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  14. Flapjack

    Flapjack 2[H]4U

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    I tried sending you a message (not allowed to send), but it's probably better to put this here anyway since the pump in my original kit failed today. Hopefully someone else here doesn't hear the sound and think it's a fan. Luckily, I had no damage, but I could have, had I not been on the PC when it failed. Luckily, I hadn't even opened the the replacement kit. I ended up installing a different set of Phanteks, so I didn't use the original Enermax fans.

    It only took a few days from the sound starting to fail completely. The sound really sounded like another fan going... I just knew it wasn't the radiator fans this time and guessed it was the PSU, which is the only other fan in the system, as it's an open case. The noise I had been hearing was not the PSU fan after all... it was the pump.

    For the last few days, I had been experience microstutters and couldn't figure out why. Unfortunately, there are 10 million threads on TR/X399 stuttering problems. I updated all my drivers, updated BIOS, and disabled HPET. Nothing helped. Last night it was so bad, I couldn't even game.

    I started work this morning, and just lived through the stutters. The PC shut off about an hour after I started work. That's when I put two and two together. The microstutters had been due to thermal throttling. I put my finger on the cooler and nearly burned my finger! I let it cool down for a few hours, then booted it up to grab a file I had been working with on my desktop. Before I shut down, I checked the CPU temp and it was at 72C! All cores had been throttled down to 600mhz. I opened the replacement kit and swapped the cooler/radiator out. Temps are down to 27C now. I noticed that there was coolant leaking out of the block. Luckily, only a drop or two fell onto my video card after it completely failed.

    At any rate, I'm concerned it will fail again. I'm not even overclocking this system. Have you guys figured out what is causing the failures, and if so, was it before Sept when I received the replacement kit? I've googled, and there are quite a few cases of this happening. I need to decide whether I should get a new cooler, or stay with this one.

    Before
    before.jpg

    After
    after.jpg
     
  15. Flapjack

    Flapjack 2[H]4U

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    Unbelievably, it's happening again. I don't think the pump is moving any fluid at all. Either that, or the fluid is somehow evaporating? Within the last week or so, my temps have gone from high 20s-low 30s, up to high 60s-low 70s. I'm surprised my computer still works at all. If I do anything even remotely CPU-intensive, it immediately starts throttling.

    I put in another ticket with Enermax. Hopefully they respond quick, and hopefully they have figured out why this is happening in the first place.

    **EDIT**
    Good Lord, that was fast. I already have a tracking number.

    Not sure if Enermax is still tracking this conversation (they've replied before), but if they are, it would be nice to know what the "II" in the "Liqtech TR4 II 360" means. Hopefully it means they've fixed the failing part. From the description on NewEgg, it looks like they've made the RGB lighting addressable. I see reviews with the same pump problem as recently as this week, though. :(
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2019