Fairly cheap gaming build

[Scair]

Hey all...I've been considering a SFF for my next desktop, and after researching some I've come up with this:
http://secure.newegg.com/NewVersion/wishlist/PublicWishDetail.asp?WishListNumber=3689529
I have the hard drive/monitor/keyboard/mouse already. The mobo has 4 ram slots so I can upgrade later, and the ICE cooling system seems like it would alleviate the need for an aftermarket CPU cooler. Maybe that's just wishful thinking, but decent coolers that fit in mATX cases make my wallet cry.

The goal is a good gaming system as close to $900 shipped as possible. When I say "close" I mean $950 shipped is the top I can pay. I'm not dead-set on these components (or even SFF for that matter), so if you think it's more cost-efficient to buy the case/PSU/mobo separately or just skip SFF and go with a tower, let me know.

I appreciate your time.


Side note: I'm selling my Acer Travelmate 4404 to help finance this...PM if interested.

 

[mitcity22]

Change CPU to the 3600x2 and try to get this mobo.....

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813127013

it is no longer being sold at most places but try any ways, this will allow you to overclock the 3600 fairly easily to 2.8-3.0Ghz, you will probably want a 3rd party heat sink fan combo if you are going to overclock I would suggest finding a used 4-pipe socket 939 HSF (it will fit AM2) they are small easy to install and actually quite good.

I would suggest skimping on the GPU, get a 7900gs and save $100, you will probably want to upgrade to DX10 in the future so it won't be that big of a deal.

look to get a good deal on the DDR2 supertalent RAM or the PNY RAM, they both run at 667Mhz but both are known to be good overclockers and actually you won't even need to over clock b/c the 3600x2 runs at 1.9Ghz w/ 9x multi so if you up the FSB to say 333Mhz the CPU runs at around 3.0Ghz and the RAM will be running at stock speeds. suppertalent can be found at ewiz.com for around $117 and PNY can be found on Newegg for $160 w/ $60 MIR. (not sure if this deal is still going), plus these kits are 2x1gb so it doubles your memory.

forgoeing the shuttle means you need a case and PSU, I reccomend getting a shuttle that accepts standard ATX power supplies and the Corsair 520w PSU gets great reviews and can found on sale for around $100.

Overall if you make these changes you will have a much better system and it shouldn't up your price, actually if you find good deals it might lower it a little.

If you don't want to overclock at all you can just get a cheaper mATX motherboard or just forget about my post.

 

[Scair]

Change CPU to the 3600x2 and try to get this mobo.....

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16813127013

it is no longer being sold at most places but try any ways, this will allow you to overclock the 3600 fairly easily to 2.8-3.0Ghz, you will probably want a 3rd party heat sink fan combo if you are going to overclock I would suggest finding a used 4-pipe socket 939 HSF (it will fit AM2) they are small easy to install and actually quite good.

I would suggest skimping on the GPU, get a 7900gs and save $100, you will probably want to upgrade to DX10 in the future so it won't be that big of a deal.

look to get a good deal on the DDR2 supertalent RAM or the PNY RAM, they both run at 667Mhz but both are known to be good overclockers and actually you won't even need to over clock b/c the 3600x2 runs at 1.9Ghz w/ 9x multi so if you up the FSB to say 333Mhz the CPU runs at around 3.0Ghz and the RAM will be running at stock speeds. suppertalent can be found at ewiz.com for around $117 and PNY can be found on Newegg for $160 w/ $60 MIR. (not sure if this deal is still going), plus these kits are 2x1gb so it doubles your memory.

forgoeing the shuttle means you need a case and PSU, I reccomend getting a shuttle that accepts standard ATX power supplies and the Corsair 520w PSU gets great reviews and can found on sale for around $100.

Overall if you make these changes you will have a much better system and it shouldn't up your price, actually if you find good deals it might lower it a little.

If you don't want to overclock at all you can just get a cheaper mATX motherboard or just forget about my post.

First off, thanks for taking the time to respond.

I should have mentioned I'm not planning on overclocking. That said, I'd like to keep to at the very least a 4000 since I won't be overclocking. I've been considering the 7900GS like you mentioned, but I'm not sure how much of a hit losing the extra 25mb ram will do. I got the eVGA with the intent of upgrading to DX10 at the very end of the 3month trade-in time, so it wouldn't be too long before I had more power there though.

As for the case, which Shuttle accepts standard ATX? I've heard a lot of good on these boards about the SG01 too and that would give me the full size ATX psu like you mentioned.

 

[TheGardenTool]

I'd go ahead and spend the extra 40 bucks and grab a eVGA 8800gts 320mb now and stepup later if it doesn't meet your expectations.

 

[IronChefMorimoto]

Ditch the Shuttle. You lock yourself into a rig with those things.

I have not been a fan of Shuttle since I've own two of them and summarily watched the company, in general, drop support of legacy products and even most of its current stuff. Read the Shuttle customer service review from 1-2 years ago here on HardOCP.com -- you'll be extremely disappointed.

Mind you -- my wife's SK41G and my own SN85G4V3 are great little machines, but...

• If either PSU fails, I'm gonna have to deal with Shuttle's piss poor support.
• I'm locked into whatever I can fit into a PCI slot or AGP slot. No PCI-E at all. You'll find yourself, in a year or two, wondering what to do with it when the tech changes.

Sorry -- I'm bashing Shuttle probably a little much, but, if I had it to do all over again, I'd find a nice SFF case (Silverstone SG01, Thermaltake LanBox, Coolermaster Centurion 541) and leave my options open.

My 2 cents. Good luck!

IronChefMorimoto

 

[mitcity22]

I will also second that you don't get a shuttle, b/c of what was mentioned above.

If you don't want to overclock and the processor you are wanting is $165 then I would look into getting a Core2Duo setup. I'm not sure how the 2.3Ghz AMD will bench against a E4300 or E6300 (about the same price), but I think there is a possibility that the C2D will be better for around the same price.

Likewise, if you don't want to overclock then just get a mATX board that gets good reviews and has the options you want.

As long as you plan to upgrade the GPU though the Evga step up program in the next 3 months then you will be ok with w/e GPU you decide on. Just remember that you will lose you GPU until Evga sends you your new one, so either a)have a back up GPU b) have a mobo w/ onboard video or c)be willing to not be able to use you pc for awhile. (I'm not sure how long Evga takes to send the new GPU, but this is just something to be aware of) As the Gardentool said $40 more for the 8800gts would probably be worth it, unless you want to wait until Nvidia comes out w/ some decent drivers for the 8800 series in Vista.

The silver stone SG01 is supposed to be really nice, check out SFFClub.com, Steeeeve the owner/creator roam [H]ard a lot and he is helpful, also there are good review on SFF cases there.

Lastly I stand by getting the 2x1gb kit of 667mhz ram, IMO this would be better than 4x512 800mhz, plus in the future you will be able to get 4x1gb 667mhz ram w/ having much trouble.

 

[w1retap]

This is what I'd do...

- Thermaltake Lanbox
- Biostar T-force AM2 mobo
- AM2 cpu, whichever is in your budget
- 2GB corsair xms2 ddr2-800
- EVGA 8800GTS 320mb
- creative x-fi sound
- hard drives, optical drives, psu.

 

[TheGardenTool]

Or if you want to do an Intel C2D build:

Case: Silverstone Sugo SG01E
PSU: ST50EF-PLUS Short Cable Edition
Heatsink: SilverStone NT06 Lite
Motherboard: Abit Fatal1ty F-I90HD
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E4300 or E6300
GPU:eVGA 8800GTS 320MB
RAM: 2x1GB DDR2
Other: Everything else you need.

This would make a fine, quite SFF rig that is reasonably priced. I wish I would have gone this route as it would have been cheaper than what I'm doing. Shame on me for finding a full-size case for cheap on [H]

 

[Steeeeve]

Or if you want to do an Intel C2D build:

Case: Silverstone Sugo SG01E
PSU: ST50EF-PLUS Short Cable Edition
Heatsink: SilverStone NT06 Lite
Motherboard: Abit Fatal1ty F-I90HD
CPU: Intel Core 2 Duo E4300 or E6300
GPU:eVGA 8800GTS 320MB
RAM: 2x1GB DDR2
Other: Everything else you need.

This would make a fine, quite SFF rig that is reasonably priced. I wish I would have gone this route as it would have been cheaper than what I'm doing. Shame on me for finding a full-size case for cheap on [H]

I agree with the above set up. Its a winner every time and is probably my most popular set up.

 

[TheGardenTool]

I agree with the above set up. Its a winner every time and is probably my most popular set up.

Roger that Steeeeve, as this is pretty much what I was going to do when I was planning a SFF build, but dammit I had to go and find a mid-tower for cheap! Maybe if I build my woman a new computer since her Dell B110 sucks, but it was free.

 

[IronChefMorimoto]

This is what I'd do...

- Thermaltake Lanbox
- Biostar T-force AM2 mobo
- AM2 cpu, whichever is in your budget
- 2GB corsair xms2 ddr2-800
- EVGA 8800GTS 320mb
- creative x-fi sound
- hard drives, optical drives, psu.

You could also forego the expensive Thermaltake Lanbox ($129 to get an SFF with a handle) and get the barebones Ultra MicroFly without a PSU at either Steeeeve's store or from Frozencpu.com. It's a little "cheaper" in terms of build quality, but it's big and will hold a lot of hardware.

Also, a lot of SFFs like the Shuttle and the Lanbox were designed with "portability" in mind. Don't get stuck on a design because of a handle or portability. I bought my Sk83G and then my SN854GV3 thinking I'd be doing LAN parties all the time. Then the Atlanta middle aged gamer scene sort of dried up except for very private LAN parties (I guess I wasn't invited), and I ended up having a Shuttle XPC that I can't upgrade and a Shuttle XPC lan bag that sits in my closet collecting dust.

You can get a case with more standard cooling setup like a Coolermaster Centurion 541 (baby brother of the 5-series mid-tower from Coolermaster) for $50 before a PSU vs. $129 before a PSU from Thermaltake.

Bottom line -- SFF = "SMALL" form factor. If you don't need it to be portable, then the "SMALL" part opens you up to some microATX mini-towers that might do the job for less money (which means more $$$ for other parts like CPU coolers and video/audio cards).

IronChefMorimoto

 

[Vengance_01]

I agree go M-ATX. This way case is re-usable, PSU etc.. Get the Ultra MX6 line. Its the best bang for you buck out atm. You get the new Ultra microfly and a very nice 600 watt modular PSU with flex cables with the correct lengths. I have tested the PSU with a X2 3600@2.85GHZ, 2HDs, 1 DVD Burner, and an O/Ced 8800GTS and the PSU handled everything like a champ.

 

[Steeeeve]

Roger that Steeeeve, as this is pretty much what I was going to do when I was planning a SFF build, but dammit I had to go and find a mid-tower for cheap! Maybe if I build my woman a new computer since her Dell B110 sucks, but it was free.

Haha, go over to her and tell her you posted about her calling her "my woman" and see what happens $10 says a smack in the face

 

[Scair]

Wow...lots of information. I'm definitely ditching Shuttle then. That, and I'm considering a C2D build. I wouldn't have thought it could be done so cheap. I took the advice of looking at the minitower and I'll post a new build list with it soon.

You guys are awesome; I was just asking for a basic check and I get enough to make me spend 5 hours today researching. I'm pretty knowledgable about hardware(I've been building and repairing systems for years) but learning SFF hardware options is completely new. I haven't had this much geeky fun in a while.

To sum up:
1) Shuttle is teh suck
2) Core 2 Duo is possible on a budget
3) You guys rock
4) Waffles

 

[IronChefMorimoto]

Wow...lots of information. I'm definitely ditching Shuttle then. That, and I'm considering a C2D build. I wouldn't have thought it could be done so cheap. I took the advice of looking at the minitower and I'll post a new build list with it soon.

You guys are awesome; I was just asking for a basic check and I get enough to make me spend 5 hours today researching. I'm pretty knowledgable about hardware(I've been building and repairing systems for years) but learning SFF hardware options is completely new. I haven't had this much geeky fun in a while.

Just to give you some perspective, I was building up $$$ to buy a MacBook Pro to replace my PC at home (I use a Mac for work as a web/Flash developer, and I needed the Boot Camp PC capability to play games). Turns out that, with tax, even refurb MacBooks are expensive (in my opinion), and I already had an older Mac laptop from work to do my b'id'ness.

I'm allocating what I saved to a new PC build -- something simple -- not as extreme as what you're looking out.

IF I started from scratch and built an SFF with Core 2 Duo right now, I'd be looking at $700+ minimum for a system running an entry level C2D CPU, new DDR2 memory, new motherboard, case, PSU, and some sort of Nvidia 7900GS video card. I only have about $400 to spend, though, so that's right out.

$700 will get you the basest of C2D setups. Another $300 will get you closer to what you were describing. For me, the extra cost of the new motherboard, CPU, AND DDR2 (I'm on AMD DDR setup now) is just too much, so I'm making mainly a mid-grade upgrade until I can blow the $$$ on the C2D components.

My additional 2 cents.

IronChefMorimoto

 

[TheGardenTool]

Haha, go over to her and tell her you posted about her calling her "my woman" and see what happens $10 says a smack in the face

I always call and refer to her as woman and she's never smacked me for it yet.