Failure rates of wifi routers? (d-link)

[venm11]

Well, my latest d-link wifi router is biting the dust, constantly dropping out and restarting. I have 3 other d-link routers that have done the same thing -- 2 were gifts to others that found their way back so I could verify that they were bad. These are 3 different models and 2 product generations being used in 4 different locations. Note that my 2 netgear routers (different generations) have not failed or glitched in all that time.

So... from what I can tell via googling, average failure rates seem to be around 1-2% for wifi routers, though I'm not sure in what time frame. In my experience, they work for no more than 1.5 years and then get glitchy. So, my failure rate is 100%. Or is that 400%?

So, what are you folks seeing? Has anyone seen any studies or "official" statistics on the subject? And, what's the best way to go about dealing with d-link about this? Previous experiences with their tech support have been nonproductive, I suspect their reps would get fired if they ever gave an RMA.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

I've found, through installing and supporting a ton of broadband routers and APs..that those plugged into little battery backup units have hardly any failure rates, versus those just plugged into an outlet or plain surge strip. Seems "dirty power" kills them faster than anything else.

 

[venm11]

I've found, through installing and supporting a ton of broadband routers and APs..that those plugged into little battery backup units have hardly any failure rates, versus those just plugged into an outlet or plain surge strip. Seems "dirty power" kills them faster than anything else.

Interesting.... although.... my netgears haven't failed. One difference could be the tiny AC adapters the D-links use; my netgears all have much more substantial ones........?

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Interesting.... although.... my netgears haven't failed. One difference could be the tiny AC adapters the D-links use; my netgears all have much more substantial ones........?

I haven't noticed any difference in failure rates across the brands..when it comes to home grade (I'm leaving out biz grade like Sonicwall or HP ProCurves). But when talking about home grade Linksys, DLinks, Netgears, etc....I don't see a difference in failure rates..they all seem equal. And I've worked with most of the brands and models out there over many many years.

 

[mjz_5]

i had a 2 linksys routers die on me... one of the lan ports stopped working... i forgot what happened to the second one

 

[awdark]

I have Dlink DIR-625 which is getting glitchy on me after 2 years. Sometimes its great, other times I want to smash it with a hammer. But at least the time prior to recently was super stable.

Speaking of which, is there a thread on which router I should buy that will last..

 

[Grentz]

I've found, through installing and supporting a ton of broadband routers and APs..that those plugged into little battery backup units have hardly any failure rates, versus those just plugged into an outlet or plain surge strip. Seems "dirty power" kills them faster than anything else.

I haven't noticed any difference in failure rates across the brands..when it comes to home grade (I'm leaving out biz grade like Sonicwall or HP ProCurves). But when talking about home grade Linksys, DLinks, Netgears, etc....I don't see a difference in failure rates..they all seem equal. And I've worked with most of the brands and models out there over many many years.

I would agree with all of this.

Only thing I can say is that some of the older DLink silver plastic stuff was horrible. Some of those models were just complete shit. In fact, all of my clients that have had any of that stuff have had it all fail after a few years. On the other side, I have had very little of the linksys, netgear, and newer dlink stuff fail. I still tend to be bias towards linksys though for consumer grade stuff as I have had the best luck with them. There are some decent off brands as well, Trendnet has been a decent one in my experience. Do look at reviews though, especially long time use if you can find them. Sometimes there are just dud models from a brand out there.

The best in my experience is still to have a dedicated router like pfsense or smoothwall/ipcop and then just run a wireless AP, but I know that is not an option for everyone.

 

[venm11]

I would agree with all of this.

Only thing I can say is that some of the older DLink silver plastic stuff was horrible. Some of those models were just complete shit. In fact, all of my clients that have had any of that stuff have had it all fail after a few years. On the other side, I have had very little of the linksys, netgear, and newer dlink stuff fail. I still tend to be bias towards linksys though for consumer grade stuff as I have had the best luck with them. There are some decent off brands as well, Trendnet has been a decent one in my experience. Do look at reviews though, especially long time use if you can find them. Sometimes there are just dud models from a brand out there.

The best in my experience is still to have a dedicated router like pfsense or smoothwall/ipcop and then just run a wireless AP, but I know that is not an option for everyone.

That's exactly what the first three were, the older silver ones, the DI-xxx series. But the current one is the newer generation, WBR-xxxx which exhibits the exact same failure characteristics. I think that they're just revisions of the same hardware and firmware with new packaging.

One issue with the dlinks and cheapness is that some of the chips definitely need heatsinks, they are far too hot to touch when the unit is under load. They might be degrading over time under that much heat. They do appear to be more glitchy in the summer months.

I have some AS5 epoxy, maybe I'll saw up an old heatsink and see if better dissipation makes it more stable.

Also, I did try smoothwall, but found that the effort to setup and maintain, in addition to issues running another pc 24x7, were a bit much.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Also, I did try smoothwall, but found that the effort to setup and maintain, in addition to issues running another pc 24x7, were a bit much.

I use old laptops..an old P3 or so, slap in a PCMCIA NIC for your 2nd NIC..and you're good to go. Been running PFSense at home for the longest time on an old IBM Thinkpad laptop. Small, built in keyboard and monitor, low power consumption, low noise 'n heat output, as well as a built in battery backup unit. Rock solid, there's really nothing to maintain..just let it sit in the corner and do its thing.

 

[Ockie]

I think here is something important that is being missed here.


How warm is the environment your router is placed in and are you torrenting or murdering this little soho router with a lot of sessions?

 

[Grentz]

Also, I did try smoothwall, but found that the effort to setup and maintain, in addition to issues running another pc 24x7, were a bit much.

How is there any effort to maintain it? Once setup you really do not need to touch it. I have some clients with smoothwall installs that have not been touched for years.

Setup is also very simple if you know just a bit about networking. You just fill in the IP, gateway info, assign the network cards, and you are good to go. It is almost easier than SOHO routers at times.

 

[venm11]

I think here is something important that is being missed here.

How warm is the environment your router is placed in and are you torrenting or murdering this little soho router with a lot of sessions?

Yes but that actually seems unrelated to the dropouts. That is, I haven't been for the last 6 months or so and it's still gitchy. It's regular room temperature, not air conditioned or heated because not much goes on there.

 

[venm11]

How is there any effort to maintain it? Once setup you really do not need to touch it. I have some clients with smoothwall installs that have not been touched for years.

Setup is also very simple if you know just a bit about networking. You just fill in the IP, gateway info, assign the network cards, and you are good to go. It is almost easier than SOHO routers at times.

Because of needing to find+install specific drivers, patches and upgrades to the software or kernel (i assume), and I do make many changes for servers when they exist. Currently I have a need for an inbound VPN, actually, which is whole other issue.

 

[Grentz]

Because of needing to find+install specific drivers, patches and upgrades to the software or kernel (i assume), and I do make many changes for servers when they exist. Currently I have a need for an inbound VPN, actually, which is whole other issue.

You dont have to find drivers or anything they are built in for almost all the devices worth using. Patches and upgrades are very rare and all ready to go when they do come out, most take one click to download and install automatically. Server changes are just as easy on one of the firewall distros as using some SOHO router. In fact many times easier and more to the point.

 

[venm11]

You dont have to find drivers or anything they are built in for almost all the devices worth using. Patches and upgrades are very rare and all ready to go when they do come out, most take one click to download and install automatically. Server changes are just as easy on one of the firewall distros as using some SOHO router. In fact many times easier and more to the point.

Well, this is 2+ years ago but when I last tried it, I was trying to use it as a wifi bridge (w/firewall), and so it didn't have the particular nic drivers nor good support for negotiating wifi networks. It's possible it would work great in a regular fw scenario.

The other concerns are that PCs aren't really designed to run 24x7; they have hard drives, fans, can be noisy and consume quite a bit more electricity than dedicated units.

 

[Ockie]

Yes but that actually seems unrelated to the dropouts. That is, I haven't been for the last 6 months or so and it's still gitchy. It's regular room temperature, not air conditioned or heated because not much goes on there.

To give you an idea, I have a dlink. You do anything that increases the session count beyond any web and light home usage and you experience drops. Several people hardcore on wow and several clients open (aim, vent, etc) and the thing drops out constantly.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

Because of needing to find+install specific drivers, patches and upgrades to the software or kernel (i assume), and I do make many changes for servers when they exist. Currently I have a need for an inbound VPN, actually, which is whole other issue.

The updates are as easy as doing Windows updates, if you wish to do them. Actually for an entry level user they would be easier than doing firmware upgrades for consumer grade routers.

Drivers....just use decent quality hardware, no wonky el cheapo bargain basement brand components and you're usually fine...boot from the CD....run the easy peasy hand holding installation wizard...10 minutes later you'd done.

They're administered via web admin just like any home grade router....nothing fancy, you don't need to learn *nix at all.

Rock solid performance, can handle several hundred times more traffic than you could ever ever throw at it, and say goodbye to weekly or monthly reboots...let the thing sit in the corner doing it's job for years straight.

 

[Grentz]

Well, this is 2+ years ago but when I last tried it, I was trying to use it as a wifi bridge (w/firewall), and so it didn't have the particular nic drivers nor good support for negotiating wifi networks. It's possible it would work great in a regular fw scenario.

The other concerns are that PCs aren't really designed to run 24x7; they have hard drives, fans, can be noisy and consume quite a bit more electricity than dedicated units.

None of the distros are meant for wifi really. Just get a cheap wifi router, disable DHCP on it, and use that for the wireless side of your network.

 

[YeOldeStonecat]

The other concerns are that PCs aren't really designed to run 24x7; they have hard drives, fans, can be noisy and consume quite a bit more electricity than dedicated units.

That's why I run mine (PFSense) on a laptop
Small footprint
Low power consumption
Low heat output
Low AC usage
Barely any noise
Built in keyboard 'n monitor
Built in battery backup (go find a router that has that!)
Use adequate RAM, hard drive doesn't get used much