F-ing Intel AGAIN

[Epyon]

So you all know i had to RMA my 13900k now when i ordered my new F-NW system i went with Intel on the itx side because they are better. My build seems to be going slow as fuck so i call them up and ask why and the fucking intel stock cooler is bad and they had to order another one. and the problem is wide spread enough they ordered a bunch because they all seem to be failing. Mother fucker. 2 month wait is going to be even longer and I WAS trying to get this before i go offshore even if for a single day so i could run some quick tests and get some videos of it.

 

[vegeta535]

Falcon NW? The fuck are they doing using a stock intel cooler for 13900k for how much their system cost?

 

[GotNoRice]

Falcon NW? The fuck are they doing using a stock intel cooler for 13900k for how much their system cost?

Because their entire business model revolves around selling overpriced computers to people who don't know any better.

OP could have probably bought a thermalright heatsink for $30-35 that would fit whatever space is available and it would have resulted in a better experience than replacing the stock heatsink.

Like this for example: https://www.amazon.com/Thermalright-TL-9015R-Technology-Computer-Heatsink/dp/B0B6BCS91S

 

[Fluxmaven]

Falcon NW? The fuck are they doing using a stock intel cooler for 13900k for how much their system cost?

I think this post is bitching about two separate intel issues that aren't related. The Laminar coolers are only for 65w chips. So I'd assume the ITX system was ordered with something like a Core Ultra 265. They are just (rightfully) upset with Intel for dropping the ball lately.

 

[wandplus]

Maybe I'm just paranoid, but I never really use the stock cooler. lol The last coolers I bought were Thermalright. (I've also used Cooler Master in the past.)

 

[Fluxmaven]

The stock cooler is just for checking that everything works before building a custom loop

For the few systems I leave on air, they nearly always end up with a Thermalright cooler.

 

[Epyon]

I think this post is bitching about two separate intel issues that aren't related. The Laminar coolers are only for 65w chips. So I'd assume the ITX system was ordered with something like a Core Ultra 265. They are just (rightfully) upset with Intel for dropping the ball lately.

Yes.

I have some people on ignore so i can't see what that guy is saying. The System came with a 5090 so i priced all the parts out and how hard it would be to get a 5090 because i do 3d rendering and if get this system i can rent render time out on the system i have now 4090+4080 196gb ram.

More over yes Flux it is just a 265 none K and i asked why no 120 aio and they said it does not need it but I am going to get one for it any ways. they are cheap.

I mean both times now that i have picked intel something has fucked up. but the Tiki takes itx boards only and they are better then amd.

 

[chameleoneel]

I am convinced there are some backroom deals going on. AMD is KILLING IT with their CPUs right now. There is no reason their ITX offerings should not be identical.
No AMD 800 series ITX board has 5 Gigabit ethernet. Not even Asus' $450 ITX board.
None support more than 2 M.2 SSD. Etc.
Also, I don't think any of them have Intel wifi. Even Asrock, whom usually opts for Intel Killer wifi, switched over to Mediatek wifi.

 

[LukeTbk]

65 watt 24 cores 285 on stock coolers.... that impressive from intel (but had to check to believe it, that FN was using it at those price point....).

View: https://youtu.be/aKz1vYppooc

 

[KazeoHin]

Mind you, the intel stock cooler is designed to work Barely
Even on 'normal' 65w CPUs, the stock cooler is enough to make it so the system can POST, and operate without crashing. That's it. Maintain good temperatures? No. Prevent thermal throttling? No.

 

[KazeoHin]

I am convinced there are some backroom deals going on. AMD is KILLING IT with their CPUs right now. There is no reason their ITX offerings should not be identical. No 800 series ITX board has 5 Gigabit ethernet. None support more than 2 M.2 SSD. Etc.
Also, I don't think any of them have Intel wifi. Even Asrock, whom usually opts for Intel Killer wifi, switched over to Mediatek wifi.

Remember,

If you, as a IT procurement officer, convince your board to get systems with AMD CPUs, every single problem that those systems have will be AMD's problems, and therefore your problems.

If you instead maintain status quo, and get the Intel systems, and they have the exact same problems, those problems are now "IT issues" and its an issue with computer design in general.

So Most IT teams would rather go with the slower, more expensive, less stable Intel solution simply because it means there is a fuckton less liability.

 

[Epyon]

I am convinced there are some backroom deals going on.

Hardware unboxed even said intel is paying the MB people to not have itx boards as good as intels so yeah it is going on. Games just never fucking end with intel bitches

 

[Fluxmaven]

The Tiki uses a Strix Z890i.
I've got a Strix Z790i in my travel rig and I'm not surprised that it hasn't changed much.

Still only 2.5Gb Ethernet
Still only 2x M.2
Still using the stupid Hive audio thing

Why the hell can't Asus put 10Gb on any of their overpriced ITX boards.

 

[Epyon]

The Tiki uses a Strix Z890i.
I've got a Strix Z790i in my travel rig and I'm not surprised that it hasn't changed much.

Still only 2.5Gb Ethernet
Still only 2x M.2
Still using the stupid Hive audio thing

Why the hell can't Asus put 10Gb on any of their overpriced ITX boards.

I am not the only one

Thank you. The new MSI ITX has room for 4x NVME yes 4x AND 5GB and the stupid ass Hive. I am not going to be using that but still.

I think 10GB chips run to hot but still could have put 5GB on it. MSI DID.

 

[chameleoneel]

65 watt 24 cores 285 on stock coolers.... that impressive from intel (but had to check to believe it, that FN was using it at those price point....).

View: https://youtu.be/aKz1vYppooc

Personally, I don't like this video.

If the 285 non-K gaming numbers aren't that bad compared to a 9800X3D, then show it.

And considering the price you pay Falcon NW and their self given prestige as a premium brand with their own in-house case designs, etc: They should be dragged for using an Intel stock cooler. Or, show us temps which prove its fine and something better isn't needed.

 

[cyberblogger]

I think 10GB chips run to hot but still could have put 5GB on it. MSI DID.

I have a motherboard that has 3 dual 10Gb Ethernet for a total of 6 10Gb ethernet interfaces. In the 70F room, opening up the case and with a laser thermometer, they read 148F. Of course my board is 11 years old so I imagine they probably got better with them. The exhaust is 75F from the case so its not heating up.

Honestly, there is no reason why they overprice with a 10Gb on board. Supermicro for over a decade has produced motherboards that have 10Gb. I bought an 2016 itx board that has 2 10Gb for $200 with ram and processor. It was a xenon bga board, but for a nas + media server it will be ok.

No guys, don't buy a board just because it has 10Gb. Buy one that suits your function and have ability to stick a card into it.

I have the trendnet TEG-10GECTX 10Gb card in a machine, it reads 95F. So I guess that is the difference between the three intel X540 chips on the motherboard and what ever is in the trendnet card.
Of course I did a little mod work with my case. I took off the glass front, attached the feet on the front and turned it face down, taped up the front, cut out the grill holes for the intake and exhaust, and with 3 fans on the bottom and 1 for exhaust, I am around 5 degrees different than ambien temps. My processor runs at 30C on the average.


My temp chart in the router os I'm running (IPFire) the blue is the front board censor (blue) the cpu stays steady (green) The north bridge (yel) and the censor behind the row of 10Gb chips (red). I have a gap in this chart because I had to turn off everything so the electric company can change the transformer at the pole.

here is my 10Gb router monster:

 

[chameleoneel]

I have a motherboard that has 3 dual 10Gb Ethernet for a total of 6 10Gb ethernet interfaces. In the 70F room, opening up the case and with a laser thermometer, they read 148F. Of course my board is 11 years old so I imagine they probably got better with them. The exhaust is 75F from the case so its not heating up.

Honestly, there is no reason why they overprice with a 10Gb on board. Supermicro for over a decade has produced motherboards that have 10Gb. I bought an 2016 itx board that has 2 10Gb for $200 with ram and processor. It was a xenon bga board, but for a nas + media server it will be ok.

No guys, don't buy a board just because it has 10Gb. Buy one that suits your function and have ability to stick a card into it.

I have the trendnet TEG-10GECTX 10Gb card in a machine, it reads 95F. So I guess that is the difference between the three intel X540 chips on the motherboard and what ever is in the trendnet card.
Of course I did a little mod work with my case. I took off the glass front, attached the feet on the front and turned it face down, taped up the front, cut out the grill holes for the intake and exhaust, and with 3 fans on the bottom and 1 for exhaust, I am around 5 degrees different than ambien temps. My processor runs at 30C on the average.


My temp chart in the router os I'm running (IPFire) the blue is the front board censor (blue) the cpu stays steady (green) The north bridge (yel) and the censor behind the row of 10Gb chips (red). I have a gap in this chart because I had to turn off everything so the electric company can change the transformer at the pole.

View attachment 717629

here is my 10Gb router monster:
View attachment 717631

We're talking about ITX

 

[cyberblogger]

Personally, I don't like this video.

If the 285 non-K gaming numbers aren't that bad compared to a 9800X3D, then show it.

And considering the price you pay Falcon NW and their self given prestige as a premium brand with their own in-house case designs, etc: They should be dragged for using an Intel stock cooler. Or, show us temps which prove its fine and something better isn't needed.

Its one of these things with intel chips, you have to keep them cool.
looking at the specs on intel site: TDP 65W TTDP 182W you have to have a 200W heat sink or it will not perform. Problem is people not understanding their datasheet. Especially motherboard manufacturers that probably did their run blindly like they first do with preliminary specs, then sit on these boards 2-3 years before the processor comes out. Its one of the reasons why its good to wait to see if any issues arise to stay away from the early problem child. I wait at least 2 years so the revised batch is on the market.

 

[cyberblogger]

We're talking about ITX

I did talk about my nas board I got last week. Haven't done a complete build but its 10Gb running 95F on the open bench. X10SDV-4C-TLN2F supermicro ITX. But observing this guy, Supermicro didn't account for TTDP as the processor is 45W TDP however, this heatsink can't keep up as its TTDP is higher, but not in the datasheet all I have is Tcase @ 80°C spec. Also this board was designed by a chinese engineer that had a short career due to how this product turned out. If the 4 core is this bad, I wonder how quickly the 16 core model overheats.

The heatsink is a VGA heatsink footprint. Which this heatsink is the largest size for that footprint. What they should have done was make this board about 3/4 inch deeper so a standard 15xx/17xx heatsink could be used.

 

[chameleoneel]

I did talk about my nas board I got last week. Haven't done a complete build but its running 95F on the open bench. X10SDV-4C-TLN2F supermicro ITX

Ah cool. I didn't read the whole post. But I saw the part about buying one you can "stick (10GB) a card into". Which you can't do with ITX and a dedicated GPU.

 

[cyberblogger]

Ah cool. I didn't read the whole post. But I saw the part about buying one you can "stick (10GB) a card into". Which you can't do with ITX and a dedicated GPU.

They make m.2 10Gb interfaces.

I would love to get back into designing boards. I assisted some in building, but it does take a little talent beyond just running a specialized CAD program.

I don't see why anyone can't put one on a ASUS ROG STRIX B860-I GAMING WIFI if you want intel. I would purposely use the backside, get a case that has a hole in the pan (or cut that part out) and then figure out cooling on the backside for the 10Gb card.

Its sizing a good heat sink for this ultra processors is the difficult part of the build. Because AIO is too flawed to be reliable. I would say if you use a be quiet! Dark Rock Pro 5 you will be fine (if it will fit on that tiny board). For an ultra 285

 

[German Muscle]

Remember,

If you, as a IT procurement officer, convince your board to get systems with AMD CPUs, every single problem that those systems have will be AMD's problems, and therefore your problems.

If you instead maintain status quo, and get the Intel systems, and they have the exact same problems, those problems are now "IT issues" and its an issue with computer design in general.

So Most IT teams would rather go with the slower, more expensive, less stable Intel solution simply because it means there is a fuckton less liability.

Im someone who does exactly this except i dont need to convince anyone. I make the hardware decisions. Ive looked at going AMD but in all honesty the only thing i get over Intel is more cores. We arent a company that orders max spec servers as we dont need it. Out of the maybe 2500 servers and pcs that i manage we have only had 1 cpu fail in a server. It was DOA. Maybe 6-7 PCs with 14th gen cpus where people complained that the fans were loud. They had 14700 cpus, i changed to 14600 or 14700T to remedy this.

The main driving reason behind me not going AMD is their validation period is way to short at 90 days where intels is over a year. AMD likes to ship and patch later a little to much for me to deploy in an enterprise environment. Also keep in mind when our servers have problems, its my problem for about 30 minutes to do a log collection for support and then its on the vendor to resolve. Thats the case regardless of what CPU they have.

 

[OFaceSIG]

Falcon NW? The fuck are they doing using a stock intel cooler for 13900k for how much their system cost?

I was going to say, I'm fairly certain a 360 AIO bare minimum for a 13900k.

 

[LigTasm]

Personally, I don't like this video.

If the 285 non-K gaming numbers aren't that bad compared to a 9800X3D, then show it.

And considering the price you pay Falcon NW and their self given prestige as a premium brand with their own in-house case designs, etc: They should be dragged for using an Intel stock cooler. Or, show us temps which prove its fine and something better isn't needed.

I would also like to see performance on this stock cooler. That thing is crazy small. My 265K with a 360 keeps up admirably with 9800X3D at 1440p Ultra settings with a 4090, to the point that I can't distinguish between the two (X3D is 4-6% faster in my own tests).

 

[cyberblogger]

I was going to say, I'm fairly certain a 360 AIO bare minimum for a 13900k.

I would say liquid cooling seems to bee needed for some as I don't see a 325W forced air heat sinks.
That is why the Ultra seems to me is a plateau upgrade trying to do the same thing as the previous generations, I would have to say, a revised 13th gen. processor.

Problem I have with AIO coolers is their poor engineering. Pump on the block that will leak as well as induce vibrations on the the socket pins. No reservoir for thermal expansion, monitoring of coolant and a place to refill it. Plus wimpy fans. I used 120 CFM fans on mine. I had a system properly built that ran for over a decade w/o issues (14 years). I decided to try these AIO on a system when they came out but 5 years later, the cpu block leaked and that was it for that cooler. I repaired the motherboard and put a normal heat sink on it which it ran for another 5 years before the chip set died on the board.

 

[OFaceSIG]

Problem I have with AIO coolers is their poor engineering. Pump on the block that will leak as well as induce vibrations on the the socket pins. No reservoir for thermal expansion, monitoring of coolant and a place to refill it. Plus wimpy fans. I used 120 CFM fans on mine. I had a system properly built that ran for over a decade w/o issues (14 years). I decided to try these AIO on a system when they came out but 5 years later, the cpu block leaked and that was it for that cooler. I repaired the motherboard and put a normal heat sink on it which it ran for another 5 years before the chip set died on the board.

I tend to agree. My last two builds, my 5800x and my 7800x3D I air cooled both w/o issue. Just fewer things to go wrong.

 

[travm]

Remember,

If you, as a IT procurement officer, convince your board to get systems with AMD CPUs, every single problem that those systems have will be AMD's problems, and therefore your problems.

If you instead maintain status quo, and get the Intel systems, and they have the exact same problems, those problems are now "IT issues" and its an issue with computer design in general.

So Most IT teams would rather go with the slower, more expensive, less stable Intel solution simply because it means there is a fuckton less liability.

This might be true, but it's freaking nonsense.

 

[cyberblogger]

This might be true, but it's freaking nonsense.

Of course this is nonsense. Especially when brand is not what a procurement officer would really look at. They would look at track record plus how well the manufacturer supports their platform and the end customer.

 

[pitingres]

Remember,

If you, as a IT procurement officer, convince your board to get systems with AMD CPUs, every single problem that those systems have will be AMD's problems, and therefore your problems.

If you instead maintain status quo, and get the Intel systems, and they have the exact same problems, those problems are now "IT issues" and its an issue with computer design in general.

So Most IT teams would rather go with the slower, more expensive, less stable Intel solution simply because it means there is a fuckton less liability.

That's what they used to say about buying IBM mainframes. It was a valid way to operate, until it wasn't.

 

[KazeoHin]

That's what they used to say about buying IBM mainframes. It was a valid way to operate, until it wasn't.

True!

But it took decades

 

[KazeoHin]

Of course this is nonsense. Especially when brand is not what a procurement officer would really look at. They would look at track record plus how well the manufacturer supports their platform and the end customer.

In a perfect world, yes.

But When a laptop doesn't connect to a HDMI extension in a meeting room right before a call, and it's a 'normal' Intel device, you check the HDMI cable, the TV... your boss is patient and lets you fix the problem.

When a laptop with an AMD chip has the same issue, your boss is quick to remind you that you INSISTED that these AMD laptops were better and we should just stop trying to be cheap and get 'the real thing' next time.

 

[travm]

In a perfect world, yes.

But When a laptop doesn't connect to a HDMI extension in a meeting room right before a call, and it's a 'normal' Intel device, you check the HDMI cable, the TV... your boss is patient and lets you fix the problem.

When a laptop with an AMD chip has the same issue, your boss is quick to remind you that you INSISTED that these AMD laptops were better and we should just stop trying to be cheap and get 'the real thing' next time.

Why does your company promote incompetent managers? That level of lacking fundamental understanding of basic things is not a good trait for a manager.

 

[LOCO LAPTOP]

Why does your company promote incompetent managers? That level of lacking fundamental understanding of basic things is not a good trait for a manager.

That's like every company. I deal with the same crap.

 

[Epyon]

Personally, I don't like this video.

If the 285 non-K gaming numbers aren't that bad compared to a 9800X3D, then show it.

And considering the price you pay Falcon NW and their self given prestige as a premium brand with their own in-house case designs, etc: They should be dragged for using an Intel stock cooler. Or, show us temps which prove its fine and something better isn't needed.

Do you know what reason they gave me when i called them out the phone about that? I also asked why did you guys remove the 7950x from the AMD spec to order side? Because that one did have a 210 aio. They told me that the new air cooler does run really well in testing and they did not see a need for a aio but then on the amd side they said it was difficult to take apart or build it with a aio to get the cables to not bend or get back into place...

Mother fucker I just downloaded a 12 year old Tiki video that has a AIO in that computer and you have been doing that all the way up to like 2 months ago. So now we are at its hard i don't want to do it even though you have been doing it for 12 years. Man we are going backwards on this planet i swear. and the 12 year old video they had felt on the whole bottom to stop it from scratching but now the new unboxing video's it shows only 4 dots on each of the corners.

 

[d50man]

I would also like to see performance on this stock cooler. That thing is crazy small. My 265K with a 360 keeps up admirably with 9800X3D at 1440p Ultra settings with a 4090, to the point that I can't distinguish between the two (X3D is 4-6% faster in my own tests).

Is the 265k at stock speeds?

 

[LigTasm]

Is the 265k at stock speeds?

I turned on xmp