Eye Strain

[darkenergy]

Hi,

I'm looking to find out what the absolute best monitors for eliminating eye strain. I'm not worried about price. I desperately want my productivity and life back.

I'm currently still using my 24" Asus VW246H CCFL backlit LCD from September 2011. It's pretty harsh on my eyes, and it's what I was using when my eye strain problem started.
I tried the ViewSonic VP2770-LED 27" IPS monitor because it reportedly has no PWM. It burned my eyes faster than my Asus does. I gave a week, but it was unbearable, so I sent it back and received a refund.

So I'm left wandering if maybe LED is too harsh for my eyes. Maybe PWM isn't the root cause of the problem for me, or perhaps the damage has already gone to the point that even without PWM, my photosensitivity maintains the pain.
I read this article about PWM initially, which is why I had hoped it would be THE problem to solve. http://vasyafromukraine.webs.com/

Do any backlights come as incandescent on any monitors? Are they all flouroscent?

I've saw mentioned somewhere here on hardforum that the older Nec 2490WUXI monitor is really nice, though they're out of of production now (and they're CCFL backlit, which I'm not sure anymore if that's good or bad for me). Is this monitor really easier on the eyes?

Has anyone here actually solved their eye strain / migraine problems by switching to a different monitor? Which monitor?

Edit: As for specs... 24" or less would be ideal, but if it'd solve my eye strain problem, bigger would be an option too. So basically, anything goes.

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Extra info below (perhaps too much? I'm a rambler)
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I've had bad eye strain (migraines, burning in the back of my eyes, occasional eye twitching, hard to focus, occasional nausea; it's just plain painful) since around last September (2012). I've been trying everything, including those eye vitamins (EyePromise or something like that). I'm 27, male, 140 lbs (quite underweight it seems), anxiety/panic disorder, carpal tunnel (managed by using a Kinesis keyboard), etc. Maybe my eye strain is the product of stress or a more general disorder/disease. /shrug

I have been to 2 different eye doctors and they found nothing wrong (and my prescription hasn't really changed enough to warrant new glasses, and it's been 8 years!)
Tried computer glasses from one eye doc and it hurt my eyes to use them; that magnification was too rough.
Tried Gunnar computer glasses (crystalline lenses because the yellow tint seemed like a bad idea), The magnification on those has also been to hard on my eyes for me to stand using them for long. I figured the magnification would be light.

I'm a programmer, and I use flux to tint my screen, I have the brightness setting at 0, and I use darker color schemes like Moss for Vim (a text editor), as well as dark themes for Visual Studio when I have to code .NET. They're not totally black background colors either, Moss is a dark shade of green, and I believe is the VS scheme is obsidian or something like that.

I work at home, and I have an incandescent light on the ceiling and a lamp as well behind me across the room.

Flux is set all the way to the lowest tint for all day long.

 

[mavrocket]

Have you tried putting a light behind your monitor to illuminate the wall or space behind it?

Try swapping your screen settings from dark themes to lighter colored themes. I've found that as I've aged (I turned 30 last year), using dark themes with light colored text hurts my eyes more than light colored themes with darker colored text, and it used to be the other way around.

Also, don't discount other things that could be causing it like diet changes. Have you switched what you drink while working? Started, or stopped drinking caffeinated drinks? Stopped, or started eating "sugar-free" products with lots of sugar alcohols? There are so many things that can cause migraines...

Try taking breaks every 20-30 minutes as well, even just a walk around the room or go stand outside in the sunlight (or cloud-cover, whatever) for 5 minutes and breath some fresh air. You'd be amazed how much of a difference that makes for me.

 

[darkenergy]

Thanks for the reply! I've tried putting an ordinary incandescent lamp behind my monitor, but that seemed to hurt my eyes more. Light themes kill my eyes. I find that white/light background and black/dark foreground eats my eyes up faster than anything. I've been toggling the Google Chrome contrast plugin to inverted greyscale every time I come across a normal white background web page. Ugh, I hate it when PDFs are either static images for content, or they have graphs/figures that don't work well with my custom background color.

White and light colors are the bane of my eyes on the monitor.

Back in 2011, a year prior to the eye strain problem, I did stop drinking alcohol, dramatically reduced sugar/snack consumption (typically less than 10g of sugar a day), completely quit caffeine, and pretty much drink only water (very occasional cow/soy/coconut milk and orange juice). All changes in desperation to deal with the panic disorder I'd begun suffering with at the time.

Seems a year would be a bit late to suddenly hit me with a dramatic change from diet changes, though. Not sure what to do about it... maybe I just need a cold beer, lol.

 

[sharknice]

Are you using glossy monitors or matte? Reflections can cause eyestrain.

Every 10 minutes or so it is good to look way off into the distance so your eyes get a break from focusing on objects up close.

 

[Hulk]

When was the last time you've seen your optometrist?

 

[Namelessme]

If PWM is your issue, I would have thought the VP2770 would have solved your problem. Did you try it at somewhat higher brightness levels (at least 20-30%), just in case TFT Central got it wrong and PWM kicks in at below 20%?

Typically, as far as eye strain goes, it's either PWM or heavy IPS AG coating that is the culprit -- or both.

The NEC 2490 is okay as far as eye strain goes, at least to me. It's not perfect, as it does have an AG coating, but it's not a super duper heavy IPS coating. And it's contrast levels are so-so. It's main benefit is in regard to angles and lack of IPS glow, due to the A-TW polarizer (in 1st gen models). However, I don't think it'd be any easier on the eyes than any modern day IPS with a light coating that is also PWM free. I guess it's an option for you though if you absolutely can't use LEDs for whatever reason. It is the only 24" IPS using CCFL without a super heavy AG coating, that I am aware of -- just be aware it isn't a light coating either, it's more like a medium AG coating.

Or you could try a VA, I suppose, but not sure if it'd help at all, unless the increased contrast would make a difference for some reason.

 

[TotallyCool]

That Viewsonic doesn't have PWM (you have checked that yours doesn't, right?), but it does have FRC AKA temporal dithering, which is kind of like flicker, though not as bad as PWM. That's why when I was buying a PWM-free monitor (u2713hm) I made sure it was a native color monitor (mine is native 8bit). I have no problems with this monitor, and consider myself very fortunate since this is the only one I found that I have no problems with. (it was the first PWM-free monitor I tried though)

I am not sure if it was FRC giving you trouble, but that's the only thing I can think of to say to try and help you. Good luck.

 

[darkenergy]

Hulk:

When was the last time you've seen your optometrist?

About 2 or 3 months ago was the last visit. The visits were specifically in regards to the eye strain issue. Hmmm, I guess it got bad in September, but it started to be a problem around the beginning of August.

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sharknice:

Are you using glossy monitors or matte? Reflections can cause eyestrain.

I'm looking at my current monitor's product page, and it appears that it is glossy. At least, that's what's in the title.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824236049

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Namelessme, I tried it at various levels of brightness, including 0 brightness and a rather low contrast value too. I didn't know about the less than 20% brightness PWM possibility at the time though, so I didn't specifically look for it. That said, thanks for the info. This makes me want to try the 2490wuxi (if I can find a good used one on ebay... most are without stands or scratched/scuffed up it seems) if the next no-PWM monitor I try doesn't work out.

So AG coating is the next biggest issue.

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TotallyCool, wow, I didn't know about FRC being a possible issue. I'm guessing this is what the whole "16.7 million display colors" on my Asus is all about. The more possibilities that open up, the more chances for a solution, I guess.

I'm now considering trying out the u2713hm. How bad was your eye strain problem by the time you switched to this monitor? Was it like a chronic burning eye and headache problem, or was it just infrequent eye strain/fatigue after spending significant time behind it? I'm hoping I haven't done some serious damage to my eyes, despite the eye doctors saying monitor light can't really damage the eyes. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it's not too late for something like this to resolve my problem.

Hmmm, how's the AG coating on that monitor? Looking at the specs on Dell's site, I'm noticing the 16.7 million colors thing, and Dynamic Contrast Ratio of 2 million: 1. Is that related to temporal dithering / FRC? Is there a way to disable FRC / temporal dithering?

 

[TotallyCool]

TotallyCool, wow, I didn't know about FRC being a possible issue. I'm guessing this is what the whole "16.7 million display colors" on my Asus is all about. The more possibilities that open up, the more chances for a solution, I guess.

I'm now considering trying out the u2713hm. How bad was your eye strain problem by the time you switched to this monitor? Was it like a chronic burning eye and headache problem, or was it just infrequent eye strain/fatigue after spending significant time behind it? I'm hoping I haven't done some serious damage to my eyes, despite the eye doctors saying monitor light can't really damage the eyes. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it's not too late for something like this to resolve my problem.

Hmmm, how's the AG coating on that monitor? Looking at the specs on Dell's site, I'm noticing the 16.7 million colors thing, and Dynamic Contrast Ratio of 2 million: 1. Is that related to temporal dithering / FRC? Is there a way to disable FRC / temporal dithering?

Yes, the Viewsonic does 10bit color actually by using 8bit+FRC.

My problem was extremely severe, with eyes becoming very red very fast. Headaches were less of a problem, but I'm not normally prone to them. My only solution to using a computer was to stream to an iPad (a PWM-free device, but not as ideal as the Dell) using Splashtop Remote.

The AG coating on that monitor is THE BEST! It's semi-glossy, and has the best of both worlds.
The monitor is a native 8bit monitor (the HM, the H is 8+2FRC), you have nothing to fear from that front. 16.7 million colors is 8bit color.

P.S. the Dell is often on sale.

 

[Namelessme]

A couple of general questions.

Does an LCD TV cause you eye issues?

How about laptop screens?

The FRC thing I guess is always a possibility, but if it bothers your eyes to the extent you described, I think you'll be the first person in the world with that problem. Most people can't even see it ... at worst, I'd think it may cause minor strain. And I'd only say go for the 2490 if you must stick with CCFL ... but I don't know if it'd be any different than what you have tried so far. If you do get an eBay one, make sure to ask them for the number of hours used (can be found in advanced menu)... and ideally don't get a touchscreen one, as otherwise you'll have to try to remove it.

 

[darkenergy]

Does an LCD TV cause you eye issues?

How about laptop screens?

I have a 40" LCD TV that I used to use for entertainment prior to the eyestrain problem. When I do use it now, it still bothers my eyes as well. I sit maybe 2 meters from it.

Here's the model's spec page on newegg if you're curious. (Toshiba REGZA 40")

It's been a while since I've tried using a laptop again. I'm not sure.
This may be worth mentioning, but reading books kills my eyes too. Reading novels is just too much pain (e.g. "The Forever War" was the last one I read, and after that, it just wasn't worth it to invest time into reading when it'd just set my migraine and eye strain off).

The FRC thing I guess is always a possibility, but if it bothers your eyes to the extent you described, I think you'll be the first person in the world with that problem. Most people can't even see it ... at worst, I'd think it may cause minor strain. And I'd only say go for the 2490 if you must stick with CCFL ... but I don't know if it'd be any different than what you have tried so far. If you do get an eBay one, make sure to ask them for the number of hours used (can be found in advanced menu)... and ideally don't get a touchscreen one, as otherwise you'll have to try to remove it.

I've been trying to figure out what's causing my eye strain to begin with. Long coding sessions, then playing games and watching movies for way too many hours was what I was doing. Slowly my eyes started suffering from fatigue more, across about 2 months. Didn't think much of it until I suddenly had a mean "tension headache" that had me down for a weekend. Then it happened again, and didn't go away with rest. Just gradually kept getting worse, even though I quit the games and then quit watching movies and anything entertainment. It was like my body was exponentially losing it's ability to recover from it. My main source of entertainment is now audio-books and music now, so it's mostly just work and researching this problem that I use the monitor for. I don't watch TV either.

My problem was extremely severe, with eyes becoming very red very fast. Headaches were less of a problem, but I'm not normally prone to them.

That's definitely encouraging! Glad to hear it was such a breakthrough solution for you.

I've been reading a lot of people mentioning a backlight bleeding problem (lower left corner) for this monitor. Are you getting that too? Is it a big deal?


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I wonder if a larger screen size can cause eye strain faster?

 

[Namelessme]

If simply reading a book causes problematic eye strain, I'm not sure if any monitor will really be eye strain free.

The only thing I can suggest are general things most have mentioned in this forum -- no PWM, no FRC, a light AG coating, or glossy, if your lighting situation is suitable for it, decent contrast, keep screen brightness reasonable, and make fonts large (increase dpi).

You could try things like carnosine eye drops, and see if they help at all. But I expect you have tried several eyeball things already.

 

[evilsofa]

I'm with Namelessme; if reading a book hurts your eyes too, anything a monitor might be doing isn't the problem.

If the two eye doctors you saw were optometrists, you should see an opthamologist and ask for an OCT (Ocular Coherence Tomography) scan. If one or more them were opthamologists that checked you several ways for glaucoma, you may want to try consulting a rheumatologist next and ask them about HLA-B27.

I am not any sort of medical doctor or have any sort of medical experience beyond googling and searching wikipedia for weird things like Ankylosing Spondylitis that may have nothing whatsoever to do with what ails you.

 

[munkle]

maybe an oled monitor? Looks like sony has some 25" oled displays but prices are crazy ($6000+)

I know my oled galaxy note ii is a dream to look at and doesn't bother my eyes. Also I have noticed high dpi screens seem to bother my eyes less. My guess is that my eye isn't trying to focus as much on the pixels since I cant make them out in a high dpi screen like i can in a low dpi screen.

 

[illitirit]

this might sound wierd, but getting a pair of specialized glasses just for when your looking at computers helped me at lot at least. I stare at a monitor for at least 10 hours a day due to work and before i was getting really bad eye strain, headache and dizziness from sitting in front of a monitor so long. I picked up these about 6 months ago:
http://www.amazon.com/GUNNAR-Gaming-Eyewear-Vayper-Electronic-Games/dp/B007ZW4WPK

after using them the past 6 months, ive never had any of the problems i was having before, and i have done nothing to my screens as far as color / brightness / gamma, still the same setup. Highly recommended!

 

[CrabJuice]

Even though the experience you had with the TV could be evidence against it working: You could try getting a reduced strength prescription glasses. It helped, my myopic self, tremendously.

You can also do some eye relaxation techniques, but all that stuff is kind of nullified by overly strong glasses.

You could also experiment completely without glasses for a bit. See if there is any difference.

 

[TotallyCool]

Does reading a book in sunlight hurt your eyes too? Lighting in the environment can be as much of a problem as light coming from a screen.

If you have a non-problematic monitor, but have bright overhead fluorescent lights, the "monitor" will still seem problematic even if it isn't by itself.

In case you really can't read a simple book in any environment, you could have dry eye syndrome, carotene deficiency or even photosensitivity. Or you may simply need glasses. You can check the first two yourself by dropping some artificial tears and taking some supplements.

 

[BoomSlang001]

Check your private message inbox. I actually might own a solution to your problem and be willing to part with it. Don't mess with ebay. CCFL is definitely superior to LED as far as eye strain goes. It's just much easier to deal with and the AG coating isn't as noticeable. I feel like the LED backlight makes that worse as well.

 

[poindexter]

You could try getting a reduced strength prescription glasses. It helped, my myopic self, tremendously.

I've been interested in this, but my optometrist has brushed it off. My glasses are about -6 strength, and I find reading a bit straining. Everything looks small and far away. In fact, monitors look about 2-3" smaller on the diagonal due to them!

So, do you normally wear a -X strength perscription for driving, etc, but a lighter prescription for reading/computer?

If you don't mind, I'd like to know the ratio of your normal prescription power to the prescription you use for computer work.

 

[alek]

you might want to try the new benq no-pwm monitor

 

[CrabJuice]

I've been interested in this, but my optometrist has brushed it off. My glasses are about -6 strength, and I find reading a bit straining. Everything looks small and far away. In fact, monitors look about 2-3" smaller on the diagonal due to them!

So, do you normally wear a -X strength perscription for driving, etc, but a lighter prescription for reading/computer?

If you don't mind, I'd like to know the ratio of your normal prescription power to the prescription you use for computer work.

Go to another optometrist. Buy glasses online. They're cheap enough. If one could consider buying Gunnars then one could definitely get a pair of junky prescription glasses. Or even contacts with reduced prescription and try how it goes.

Yes. I'm not allowed to drive with them. Although I have on a few occasions anyway. Its not a big deal. Legally it is.. practically, not so much.

Using several glass is probably why opto-people brush aside those ideas. Cause its kind of a daily burden. They want you to feel comfortable with what you got and try to cope and forget that you have the 'condition'. Its the same with medical doctors, politicians, bankers etc. They want you to take a pills or subprime loan your way to 'business as usual' without changing your life in the least.

I think of it as an advanced option. I have this 'condition' and while I'm having it I want to have glasses that makes me see better than most people and glasses that makes me feel more comfortable than most people when reading etc. So my advice is to learn about your eyes. If you spend some time on this forum section you might as well pick up some info about your eyes and how corrective lenses work.

I actually got mine done by an opto-person. He did the measurement on a closer range. But when I checked the actual figures it was just a very similar prescription with exactly one diopter (from 4) reduced on each eye. Maybe there was some cylindrical adjustment also. I'd have to find the documents and get back to you. Anyhow, regular prescriptions are just not detailed enough to adjust for those small differences. Reducing 1,5-2 diopters or so on your prescription would probably suffice.

 

[darkenergy]

Thanks for the replies everyone!

So, do you normally wear a -X strength perscription for driving, etc, but a lighter prescription for reading/computer?

If you don't mind, I'd like to know the ratio of your normal prescription power to the prescription you use for computer work.

I use a single pair of glasses for everything. The only time they come off is when I need to sleep/shower, or I'm applying eye drops or a warm compress.

My latest prescription is (only slightly different from current glasses prescription, hence I didn't buy new glasses. I don't know the old prescription though; it's been 8 years on those):

OD: -3.50 -0.75 x 127
OS: -3.00 -2.00 x 041

maybe an oled monitor? Looks like sony has some 25" oled displays but prices are crazy ($6000+)

Whoa, those are interesting. I wonder how long till we can see these at sane prices. The future is looking good, perhaps. Though, maybe future advancements will go beyond simple solutions (better monitors), and maybe we can go cyborg and ditch these inflamed body parts (eyes, carpal tunnel ridden wrists/hands/fingers, etc). I'll be an old man by then though, lol.

Does reading a book in sunlight hurt your eyes too? Lighting in the environment can be as much of a problem as light coming from a screen.

If you have a non-problematic monitor, but have bright overhead fluorescent lights, the "monitor" will still seem problematic even if it isn't by itself.

In case you really can't read a simple book in any environment, you could have dry eye syndrome, carotene deficiency or even photosensitivity. Or you may simply need glasses. You can check the first two yourself by dropping some artificial tears and taking some supplements.

Sunlight hurts my eyes a bit too, though it doesn't hurt as bad as it did when I was super photosensitive at first. Maybe I'm just as photosensitive, but don't realize it. I've developed a bit of pain tolerance thanks to the persistence of eye inflammation and headaches these past 5 or 6 months.

I don't really read books anymore, at least not ever since I discovered the alternative of listening to audio books instead last month. I typically read in my room.

The lighting in my room is incandescent bulbs. I guess only source of fluorescent light is my monitor's backlight (CCFL on the Asus).

You could try things like carnosine eye drops, and see if they help at all. But I expect you have tried several eyeball things already.

This is my first time hearing about those eye drops, I think. Are they cataracts only, or do they help with general eye strain as well?
I have been noticing my floaters a lot, but I think that's possibly a side effect of being hyper-vigilant/aware regarding my eyes.

I'm with Namelessme; if reading a book hurts your eyes too, anything a monitor might be doing isn't the problem.

If the two eye doctors you saw were optometrists, you should see an opthamologist and ask for an OCT (Ocular Coherence Tomography) scan. If one or more them were opthamologists that checked you several ways for glaucoma, you may want to try consulting a rheumatologist next and ask them about HLA-B27.

I am not any sort of medical doctor or have any sort of medical experience beyond googling and searching wikipedia for weird things like Ankylosing Spondylitis that may have nothing whatsoever to do with what ails you.

Yeah, I'm a bit afraid that no monitor might help; though I'll be trying all sorts of things until I find a solution. "Never give up!", as they say.

They were optometrists, so I should get an OCT scan next, right? This is just checking for glaucoma, or perhaps their are other conditions possible too? I wonder if glaucoma is something the optometrists simply didn't think about, didn't see signs to indicate it, etc? I'd have thought they'd suggested it as a next possibility. Though, with those visits being so brief, it seems they easily could have overlooked the possibility. There's Ophthalmologists working in the same building as the second one I saw (they had better/more equipment too; they took pictures of the eye, and used a lens to magnify the light the shined in my eyes. The optometrist found a minor scar on the bottom of my left eye that the first doc missed, but upon return visit, there was nothing apparently at issue with the scar. I had finger-jabbed myself in my left eye earlier that month in my sleep, so that was probably it. Screwed up way to wake up, ).

Ankylosing Spondylitis... /shudder
I do slouch A LOT. And I sit all day at my computer, even if my monitor is off and I'm just using hotkeys to manage listening to music/audio-books (or using a small automation program to answer skype calls for me without having to turn on my monitor -- had to record myself clicking on the answer button, because skype couldn't be bothered to make a shortcut key for answering incoming calls. Wish there was a global hotkey for it).

I guess I need to seriously fix my posture.


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As a side question, how does the Nec 2490wuxi2 compare to the Nec 2490wuxi in terms of eye strain?

 

[Namelessme]

Thanks for the replies everyone!

This is my first time hearing about those eye drops, I think. Are they cataracts only, or do they help with general eye strain as well?
I have been noticing my floaters a lot, but I think that's possibly a side effect of being hyper-vigilant/aware regarding my eyes.


As a side question, how does the Nec 2490wuxi2 compare to the Nec 2490wuxi in terms of eye strain?

Actually I am not sure about the drops. I know some have used it for floaters, but best to ask an eye doctor or do your own research there. If you have dry itchy, red eyes, ocular rosacea is a possibility, but I expect the doctor would have noticed that.

And the second revision of the 2490 will most likely be worse regarding eye strain ... and overall quality too. It will have a heavier AG coating and no A-TW polarizer. If you really want a 2490, go for 1st gen only. PM me if you want the name of the eBay reseller I got mine from -- it wasn't problem free, but the seller seems honest. You may have to wait to see if any are relisted though, so that could take a while.

 

[dovez]

Unbearable burning in the eyes when looking at a monitor has always been a PWM problem in my previous experiences. It is still highly possible that the Viewsonic had PWM after all. We cannot rely on reviews for PWM because the manufacturer may change the PWM of the monitor at any time. The only reliable PWM-free monitors are the ones the manufacturers themselves claim to be, like the BenQ GW2760HS or the Eizo FlexScan EV series used with over 20% brightness with the automatic dimming features turned off.

There is a non-foolproof way to test for PWM in home conditions. All you need is a camera cellphone. One can hold the camera of the phone a half an inch close to the monitor with the brightness of the monitor set to zero. Moving lines on the phone's screen mean that PWM is present. However, there may still be PWM even if you don't see any moving lines. So don't assume there is no PWM if you seen no moving lines. This is helpful if one still has the offending monitor.

I recommend trying a second, real PWM-free monitor, preferably the BenQ. A question to forum members: "Did BenQ make it 100% clear the the mentioned monitor is PWM-free at any brightness?" If so, then I understand it will always be PWM-free and there can be no misunderstandings about its PWM, unlike with other monitors which have different PWMs in different parts of the world.

 

[alek]

according to this video from benq (i must seem like a benq fanboy by now ;P) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCKQx8AcnWo its really easy to check for pwn flickr. Is that true?

 

[TotallyCool]

according to this video from benq (i must seem like a benq fanboy by now ;P) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCKQx8AcnWo its really easy to check for pwn flickr. Is that true?

You can basically just wave a pencil in front of a dimmed screen. I've never seen that method fail. You can't confirm there 100% isn't any flicker, but you can confirm 100% that there is.

 

[alek]

You can basically just wave a pencil in front of a dimmed screen. I've never seen that method fail. You can't confirm there 100% isn't any flicker, but you can confirm 100% that there is.

how?

 

[BoomSlang001]

And the second revision of the 2490 will most likely be worse regarding eye strain ... and overall quality too. It will have a heavier AG coating and no A-TW polarizer. If you really want a 2490, go for 1st gen only. PM me if you want the name of the eBay reseller I got mine from -- it wasn't problem free, but the seller seems honest. You may have to wait to see if any are relisted though, so that could take a while.

The quality is definitely on part. It has been discussed a lot but the 2490wuxi2 is nearly the same. Only issue is that it doesn't have an A-TW polarizer. However, unless you look at all black screens all the time from seriously far angles, you WON'T notice the small amount of extra glow. The one I have and am selling is amazing and has no bleed. The AG coating was the same as the 2490wuxi(1) when I bought it. I also have the calibrator custom made by NEC for it with software.

 

[Namelessme]

The quality is definitely on part. It has been discussed a lot but the 2490wuxi2 is nearly the same. Only issue is that it doesn't have an A-TW polarizer. However, unless you look at all black screens all the time from seriously far angles, you WON'T notice the small amount of extra glow. The one I have and am selling is amazing and has no bleed. The AG coating was the same as the 2490wuxi(1) when I bought it. I also have the calibrator custom made by NEC for it with software.

Every other person who has had the 2nd revision has stated it has a heavier coating than the 1st (at least based on user reviews I have read). But it may depend on how sensitive you are to it to begin with, as to if you notice it or not. If getting a 2490, I think a person might as well get it with the A-TW ... it is sort of its main benefit.

I agree with another poster above who suggested trying a different model LED that is PWM free. It is possible the one you tried just happened to have PWM, regardless of what reviews stated.

 

[Fooshnik]

I've always had eye strain problems with monitors, I can't use a CRT over 17". I had work buy me one of the SGI LCDs that was basically the first consumer level LCD for desktop computers. Answer me this, the text on this forum, white on black if you're using the default theme, does it appear sharp? Does it appear blurry and out of focus at normal viewing distance but sharp when you put your face right to the screen? Does it have a strong red or cyan bias on one or both sides of the white text? When you look away after viewing the monitor for a while do things at normal viewing distances (20 feet or so) appear blurry like your eye's having trouble focusing on them? Do smaller monitors like laptop screens cause the same problem?

The thing that concerns me is you said this started in September, and that reading books causes the same issue. You may need to keep seeing doctors until they come up with something.

 

[darkenergy]

I've always had eye strain problems with monitors, I can't use a CRT over 17". I had work buy me one of the SGI LCDs that was basically the first consumer level LCD for desktop computers. Answer me this, the text on this forum, white on black if you're using the default theme, does it appear sharp? Does it appear blurry and out of focus at normal viewing distance but sharp when you put your face right to the screen? Does it have a strong red or cyan bias on one or both sides of the white text? When you look away after viewing the monitor for a while do things at normal viewing distances (20 feet or so) appear blurry like your eye's having trouble focusing on them? Do smaller monitors like laptop screens cause the same problem?

I'm using the default theme. It appears sharp with my face up close, but a bit blurry I admit from normal viewing distance (about 2 feet to 1.5 meters is how my viewing distance varies, depending on how I'm sitting). So yes and yes on those first two questions. I don't notice any red/cyan bias on the text though. Yes on the following question regarding looking away from the monitor, in the sense that my vision feels a bit weak, that focusing takes a little more effort than it should. I still need to try using a laptop to see if I notice any difference.

Notably, I do seem to always have this faint static overlay on my vision pretty much all the time (think of an old television set showing white and black static on channels that you didn't have available or when the station went out). Monitor or no monitor, it's always there. Maybe that's just migraine.

The thing that concerns me is you said this started in September, and that reading books causes the same issue. You may need to keep seeing doctors until they come up with something.

Yeah. I just don't know who to see. The last eye doc didn't seem to have any idea what could be wrong; figured it was just eye strain, so just take lots of breaks, stop working 8 hours a day behind the monitor (ha ha ha, he may as well have said "Stop making your living, buddy. It's killing you"). But he was much better than the first, who just prescribed me computer glasses, but didn't really spend much time talking to me after the basic exam. Doctors always seem to be in a rush.

 

[evilsofa]

Since you haven't seen an opthamologist and the two optometrists you saw were in a rush, you need to quit messing around with monitors and glasses and iffy forum post diagnoses and see an opthamologist and have them check you. Promptly.

I understand your reluctance to go in and possibly find out really bad news. I sort of halfway knew something might be wrong with my eyes for a long time but was in denial about there being a problem, largely because my symptoms were a lot more subtle than yours and I couldn't work out what it was that was wrong. Your symptoms are not being subtle. Since you speak of having a panic disorder, you're probably being careful to not panic about things you shouldn't panic about, but being concerned about this is appropriate. Some of the eye conditions you need to be checked for can cause blindness in relatively short periods of time.

 

[darkenergy]

I understand your reluctance to go in and possibly find out really bad news. I sort of halfway knew something might be wrong with my eyes for a long time but was in denial about there being a problem, largely because my symptoms were a lot more subtle than yours and I couldn't work out what it was that was wrong. Your symptoms are not being subtle. Since you speak of having a panic disorder, you're probably being careful to not panic about things you shouldn't panic about, but being concerned about this is appropriate. Some of the eye conditions you need to be checked for can cause blindness in relatively short periods of time.

What are the conditions that you're thinking of? Partly out of curiosity, but also so that I can mention them when contacting an opthamologist. I don't mind bad news (other than reality being rough); it's better than ignorance (which is dangerous).

Don't worry about scaring me. My panic disorder isn't anything like it was a year and 2 months ago. I hardly panic at all these days, and if I do, it's really mild panic. The thought of panic doesn't really bother me so much anymore, fortunately. You get used to it after enough exposure to it, I guess (or at least for me).

 

[Pkirk618]

don't know how old u are but eye strain gets more common as you age (duh right?). It'll pop up on you in a second but you may not notice it until you do something like change out your monitor. In this case, this is when you became very self aware. Now, the hurdle is a little higher. Try some reading glasses when you begin to strain. Good Luck.

Oh and eye exercises help out too!

 

[evilsofa]

What are the conditions that you're thinking of? Partly out of curiosity, but also so that I can mention them when contacting an opthamologist.

Glaucoma is the obvious one, because it's the second most common cause of blindness. Getting checked for glaucoma should be one of the first things that happens during any opthamologist visit, often done before the doctor even sees you, by a tech. If they're using the old style, they'll blow a puff of air into your eye (flinch!); if the newer version, they'll move a bright blue thing right up close to your eye but there's no puff of air.

The OCT scan is a bit different; the one I got done, something else is moved near the eye, you see a bright blue circle to aim your eye at, and a line of red goes down your field of vision; then they get really cool topographical maps of your macula as well as vertical slices showing (I think) the layers of the macula.

Optometrists normally refer you to opthamologists when they see something serious. Eye pain even when reading books isn't normal, and it seems like your optometrists have failed to address the issue, so I think it's time to move up the ladder.

Please note that I'm speaking merely as a patient who has visited opthamologists, not a doctor, so my medical opinions are certainly not professional.

 

[Comixbooks]

I talked to Vasssja from the UK on a few different forums one being the defunct computer monitor pain web page the forum is still up. I basically use the CRT for all of my stuff and game on a ASUS led lcd monitor 21.5 I have a backup if it dies or whatever.

What I changed though is my diet which I think had a greater impact then any type of tweaking I did with the monitor. It took about a year to calibrate my ASUS it's like 50 B 50 C 25 B 25 C in Nvidia or something like that.

I started taking alot of Magnesium Citrate from Natural Calm and now I just started drinking Baking Soda not much =) a Teaspoon once a day or so. What this does in help your immune system by lowering your acidic level in the body or making the body more alkaline.

I do think good health and passive use of comptuters is the only way to go.

Oh if you work with floursants lights you might have a harder time trying to adapt like I did. I still have problems but not as bad as two years ago.


I never had luck with viewsonics their CRTs gave me some of the worse eyestrain know to man.

 

[TotallyCool]

Notably, I do seem to always have this faint static overlay on my vision pretty much all the time (think of an old television set showing white and black static on channels that you didn't have available or when the station went out). Monitor or no monitor, it's always there. Maybe that's just migraine.

That sounds like visual snow, a condition very little is understood about.

http://thosewithvisualsnow.yuku.com/

 

[dopple]

That sounds like visual snow, a condition very little is understood about.

http://thosewithvisualsnow.yuku.com/

maybe the guys body is actually showing him what the source of his problems is... static electricity and if it is showing, you better get out of that area so high in static... take a long break from electrical stuff.. see if the snow vision goes away...

actually just see if the static in vision becomes better when you take a shower. that's when static is quickly discharged from the body. clearly showing the role of static electricity around you.

 

[darkenergy]

That sounds like visual snow, a condition very little is understood about.

maybe the guys body is actually showing him what the source of his problems is... static electricity and if it is showing, you better get out of that area so high in static... take a long break from electrical stuff.. see if the snow vision goes away...

actually just see if the static in vision becomes better when you take a shower. that's when static is quickly discharged from the body. clearly showing the role of static electricity around you.

Interesting stuff; At the very least, it's something more that can be researched.

What I changed though is my diet which I think had a greater impact then any type of tweaking I did with the monitor. It took about a year to calibrate my ASUS it's like 50 B 50 C 25 B 25 C in Nvidia or something like that.

I started taking alot of Magnesium Citrate from Natural Calm and now I just started drinking Baking Soda not much =) a Teaspoon once a day or so. What this does in help your immune system by lowering your acidic level in the body or making the body more alkaline.

...

I never had luck with viewsonics their CRTs gave me some of the worse eyestrain know to man.

That gives me some hope for trying another PWM-free monitor. So Viewsonic is known for making monitors that are a bit harder on the eyes?

I've ordered some Magnesium Citrate (Natural Calm) off of Amazon. I tried some Magnesium Taurate 2 weeks ago, but it made my chest pain escalate quite a bit (I did feel a bit more tense plus more energetic; my energy is generally quite balanced though -- I definitely have no use for caffeine / sugar.), so I laid off of it. Also, trying Penetrex topical cream on my wrists for Carpal Tunnel relief made my chest pain increase as well. I've been increasingly prone to chest pain ever since the genesis of my anxiety disorder back in August/September 2011, though trips to the physician (bloodwork, EKG) show all is well. My body just likes to hurt for no reason, I guess. Notably, taurine is a common ingredient in energy drinks if I'm not mistaken; maybe that's why that supplement didn't play so nice. Looking forward to trying the citrate, especially seeing some of the customer reviews on Amazon for it (here's a customer review saying the Natural Calm version calmed them down when another brand of the same stuff had the opposite effect).

Glaucoma is the obvious one, because it's the second most common cause of blindness. Getting checked for glaucoma should be one of the first things that happens during any opthamologist visit, often done before the doctor even sees you, by a tech. If they're using the old style, they'll blow a puff of air into your eye (flinch!); if the newer version, they'll move a bright blue thing right up close to your eye but there's no puff of air.

The OCT scan is a bit different; the one I got done, something else is moved near the eye, you see a bright blue circle to aim your eye at, and a line of red goes down your field of vision; then they get really cool topographical maps of your macula as well as vertical slices showing (I think) the layers of the macula.

Optometrists normally refer you to opthamologists when they see something serious. Eye pain even when reading books isn't normal, and it seems like your optometrists have failed to address the issue, so I think it's time to move up the ladder.

Ah! Yeah, I remember that, they blew some puffs of air in my eyes; they did note that my left eye was a little sensitive. But it seemed it might be related to the (I believed to be recent) scar on the bottom of my left eye (I had jabbed myself in the eye with my finger one night only a few weeks before the visit. Awesome way to wake up. How did I do that? I woke up with this itch on my head and was immediately reaching for it. Jabbed myself in the eye due to my sleepy clumsiness).

I'll have to open communications with the place regarding seeing one of their opthamologists about my eye strain / migraines, etc. Given that not much is known about Visual Snow, and they probably can't help with that, I probably shouldn't bother mentioning it. According to the visual snow forum TotallyCool linked to, it's a point that can be used against you legally in case of an automobile accident if it's in your medical records.

The link and quick quote from that forum post:

Can I still drive with Visual Snow?

If it does not interfere with your vision to the point where you feel it impedes safe driving, then there is no reason why you cannot drive with VS. However if you are involved in an accident and your visual disturbances are on your medical record, this many be used against you in legal proceedings. Always consult a medical proffesional before deciding to drive with visual snow.

My slight visual snow, if that's what it is, is not only faint, but it's just a mild nuisance at it's worst. I only really notice it if I'm being hypervigilant about my eyes. That it could be used against someone in legal proceedings is just ridiculous. No idea how someone is supposed to function in society now without the ability to drive. Opportunistically using it against someone when something does happen (while otherwise saying it's ok to do so) is just... contradictory.

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Searching for stuff about photosensitivity, I came across the subject of scotopic sensitivity syndrome / Irlen Syndrome and the usage of tinted / colored lenses to solve the problem. Is this more of an autism problem? Seems like a strange solution. And wikipedia shows it as a bit of a sketchy idea:

A 2009 report by The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) does not believe that there is any scientific evidence or basis for the use of colored lenses (the treatment used for Scotopic Sensitivity Syndrome).[7] When discussing its scientific basis, the AAP mentions that "[t]he method used to select the lens or filter color has been highly variable,the color selection has also shown considerable variability,and the test-retest consistency has been poor" (p. 843)

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Ripping this straight from the no-pwm monitor thread:

Dell 2413 - No PWM above 19% brightness, soft coating
Eizo EV2436 - No PWM above 19% brightness, hard coating (IPS/LG)
Eizo EV2336 - No PWM above 19% brightness, soft coating (PLS/Samsung)
NEC EA244WMi - Waiting for a serious review, but it seems it has soft coating (IPS/LG)

I'm thinking about the Eizo EV2336 given that a softer coating is better. I live in the US though. If I were to get this monitor, would it work here? I read that most european devices will work fine in the US, but some will need a power converter or something...

Reading forum posts about PLS vs IPS, it sounds like there's not much difference between the two, though I'm guessing maybe it's not really relevant to eye strain anyway. So I shouldn't worry about it being PLS instead of IPS?

 

[dreddsc]

I'm thinking about the Eizo EV2336 given that a softer coating is better.

The U2413 should have a light coating. There's a good review of it on tftcentral.co.uk. It should be a better choice before ordering something from overseas.

maybe the guys body is actually showing him what the source of his problems is... static electricity and if it is showing, you better get out of that area so high in static... take a long break from electrical stuff.. see if the snow vision goes away...

You have got to be joking. His mild visual snow has nothing to do with static electricity that you encounter when you touch the metal handle of a door at your workplace.