Exos Al failed catastrophically - Fumigation Warning!!

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Firemane

Limp Gawd
Joined
Mar 14, 2003
Messages
291
I have an Exos Al cooling a dual-Athlon server that runs 24/7 (mail/web/ADC/DNS/DHCP/etc.). It has run in this configuration reliably and leak-free for over a year now.

This weekend I had my house fumigated (Sulfuryl Fluroride aka "Vikane" with Chloropicrin warning agent) and was told by the fumigators that it was safe to leave computer equipment running during fumigation and that it would not harm inorganic materials.

Less than 24 hours after the fumigant was introduced into the house, I lost all connectivity with my server - web, mail, the works. We got back today and the whole house stank of burning PCB. The tubing for the Exos had ruptured both inside the fan/radiator unit and inside the server. Coolant was EVERYwhere, and the video card/AGP slots had literally been smoldering :eek: Soot and coolant was everywhere (what hadn't burned off anyway), as were exploded capacitors, oscillators and the like.

I'm still trying to determine if this was due to weakening of the coolant lines by the Vikane (any chemists/fumigators in the house?!), but I wanted to pass on my misfortune as a warning to others. DO NOT LEAVE WATER-COOLED PCs IN A HOUSE DURING FUMIGATION. Or at the very least, leave them off and unplugged and make an exhaustive inspection of the coolant lines prior to powering up after fumigation.

More information as it becomes available, and any tubing-type chemical interaction information to this thread please. Thanks!!

-Brian
 
whoa! that sucks! im assuming the fumigant reacted with the pvc plastic in the hosing of your system man. nything salvageable?
 
this is something I've never heard of but certainly makes sense. If you could posts pics of the tubing damage I'd bet someone here could tell you what happened. To me it sounds like corrosion, but damn that strong? I'd imagine it would have eaten through something other than just the tubing (some consumer goods must share similar properties with the tubing), but I'm no chemist. If they told you the stuff was safe for inorganics (unless the tubing is organic) I'd expect them to foot the bill 100%.

Strange, if this combination resulted in that kind of damage, I'd imagine some sort of warning on someones end would be in order, though I'm not sure how common fumigation is, or how common what they used is. Extreme computer users aren't the only ones that have tubing in their house though, I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned before.

On the bright side with some pics I'd bet that you at least have front page material!
 
nything salvageable?
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Maybe the hard drives - they don't seem to be contaminated with coolant, but may have suffered electrical damage. Won't know until I can get a new Western Digital SATA RAID controller to put in my workstation and try them.

If you could posts pics of the tubing damage I'd bet someone here could tell you what happened.
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Haven't opened the Exos yet - need to wait to see what the fumigators' insurance / our homeowner's insurance says about needing to inspect the unit. I have pics of the system as it sits though. As soon as I crop them down some I'll post the carnage (5MP camera). Speaking of which, where to host? Ordinarily I'd host them on my server, but... :(

I'd imagine it would have eaten through something other than just the tubing
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It did pit and discolor some lighting fixtures we have in the house. So much carnage inside the computer though, who knows if it was due to coolant or fumigant... As for the fumigant, Vikane is used by most of the fumigators here in San Diego county.

Off to crop some pics...! :rolleyes:
 
the tubes actually ruptured you say?

Hmm that means 1 of 2 things.

1) Fumugation causes a pressure difference in the atmosphere that caused the tubes to rupture

2) Some of the chemical made it's way into the water supply and caused a reaction which blew the tubes.
 
Firemane said:
This weekend I had my house fumigated (Sulfuryl Fluroride aka "Vikane" with Chloropicrin warning agent) and was told by the fumigators that it was safe to leave computer equipment running during fumigation and that it would not harm inorganic materials.
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I'm sure they didn't expect a water cooled PC. That sucks man, good luck getting it all back together.
 
Thanks for the image hosting link, BeernuT - will upload later today.

We're gonna call our homeowner's insurance for a claim, as we have a rider for computer equipment. We'll find out today if it's covered.

Not looking to sue anyone - this is small-claims material anyway, and the cost of a lawyer would exceed the maximum remedy... :(

1) Fumugation causes a pressure difference in the atmosphere that caused the tubes to rupture

2) Some of the chemical made it's way into the water supply and caused a reaction which blew the tubes.
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I have a support request in with Koolance to find out if they have ever had a reported system failure under similar circumstances, as well as a request for MSDS and materials interaction information. We'll see what happens...
 
I guess this is one time that having a homebrew system would have sucked. At least koolance should be supportive with information, if not a new system. I wouldn't be surprised that if there's a warranty under koolance that this would be covered, I mean it wasn't damaged from misuse or an "act of god". Unless there's a small little line about fumigation, they should be helpful.
 
/me wants to see teh carnage!!!!


but seriously, sorry for your loss man, and hopefully in the end you will be compensated for the parts (unfortunately not for your hassle and your time though, that is the most annoying thing to me)
 
Erasmus354 said:
/me wants to see teh carnage!!!!


but seriously, sorry for your loss man, and hopefully in the end you will be compensated for the parts (unfortunately not for your hassle and your time though, that is the most annoying thing to me)
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Yeah me to! My morbid sense of interest has been piqued and I subscribed to the thread so I could see it :) Sorry!
 
Sorry for the delay posting. Here are the pics in all their putrid glory. :(







Worst part is that it's looking like I'm not going to get a settlement from the fumigators - $3000 up in smoke, it's starting to look like... :( :(

For the curious, here's what the machine used to be:

Tyan S2460 Dual Athlon mobo
2x AthlonXP 1900+ (deceased, I'm sure - don't have another mobo to test them)
2 GB Registered ECC (probably dead - wouldn't trust it either way though)
Enermax 450W PSU
2x Seagate 160GB SATA-150's RAID1 (waiting for replacement RAID card to test)
Radeon A-I-W 8500DV
Western Digital SATA RAID card
Intel Pro/100S server NIC
Adaptec 3-port IEEE-1394 card
Adaptec AHA-29160 Ultra3 SCSI card
SB Audigy2 EX
Antec server case (a real black one, not the dark gray one)
 
As for Koolance flipping the bill, well... Their warranty says that if their unit is defective, they'll replace just that - the Exos. Anything else is the user's responsibility (paraphrased from the bold print in the warranty statement;)). Well, I really cannot blame this on materials or workmanship fault. Either the fumigant killed it or the house just got too hot with the tent over it and all the windows closed. Either way, my conscience won't let me go after Koolance on this one - though they have offered their assistance in the matter of providing materials data. Really polite folks up at Koolance, I might add - if this was at all their fault, I suspect they'd be interested in making things right... :)
 
starfury6 said:
Shouldnt the fumigators be footing the bill? They told you it was okay after all.
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I'll find out at 2:00 today. I suspect they're gonna tell me "sue us," which due to work committments I won't be able to. But I'll post what happens either way... :mad:
 
Firemane said:
Sorry for the delay posting. Here are the pics in all their putrid glory.

Worst part is that it's looking like I'm not going to get a settlement from the fumigators - $3000 up in smoke, it's starting to look like... :( :(

For the curious, here's what the machine used to be:

Tyan S2460 Dual Athlon mobo
2x AthlonXP 1900+ (deceased, I'm sure - don't have another mobo to test them)
2 GB Registered ECC (probably dead - wouldn't trust it either way though)
Enermax 450W PSU
2x Seagate 160GB SATA-150's RAID1 (waiting for replacement RAID card to test)
Radeon A-I-W 8500DV
Western Digital SATA RAID card
Intel Pro/100S server NIC
Adaptec 3-port IEEE-1394 card
Adaptec AHA-29160 Ultra3 SCSI card
SB Audigy2 EX
Antec server case (a real black one, not the dark gray one)
Click to expand...

No offense but that system isnt worth 3000 anymore. You would be lucky to get them to pay a 1000
 
kronchev said:
wow a koolance failing? imagine that...
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lol, thats what I was thinking :p
Im betting the system got way to hot... i wonder if the koolance radiator can even handle 2 barton 1900+ processors. Looks like their quick connect on the processors failed due to the tubing expanding because of a rapid heat buildup. He should see if he can get the koolance running and run some fluid through it to assess leaking areas... looks like there was also a leak in the unit itself I seriously doubt that it was a reaction with the tubing or fluid otherwise the tubing that ran outside of the case would have been most affected from fumigation. I wonder if they turned off the air conditioning in his house when fumigating? I believe they do.

LoL when he said 3000 system I thought he would be sayin he had a AMD FX-55 processor.... that system was 3000 maybe 3-4 yrs ago
 
No offense but that system isnt worth 3000 anymore. You would be lucky to get them to pay a 1000
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You're right. But that's what I have in it, and that's what it would cost me to build a new dual-proc machine with identical features (save for a newer mobo and procs) via local retail.
that system was 3000 maybe 3-4 yrs ago
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Bingo!

To be honest, if they give me anything in compensation that isn't a complete insult, I'll not only be surprised, but also satisfied. They have a business to run - doling out 3k for a leaky server isn't favorable toward that end...;) But still - if the house was gonna get hot enough to deform plastic tubing, how hot would a running air-cooled machine have gotten - and would it have been damaged as well...?
I wonder if they turned off the air conditioning in his house when fumigating? I believe they do.
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Yes they did. The fumigant has to settle to work right. But I don't know how hot the house got while tented; maybe mid- to high-80s/low-90s...? :confused: Perception of Koolance's quality aside, the thing should have shut down (and in fact did, when the coolant stopped circulating) at 55°C at the proc.
i wonder if the koolance radiator can even handle 2 barton 1900+ processors.
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It's been running in this config for months now at a nice, cool 33-34°C as measured at the downstream proc. at varying loads (it hits 36° at 100% on both procs);)
 
High heat causes Vikane (Sulfuryl Fluoride) to turn into Hydrofluoric acid + Sulfur Dioxide. Thats my guess.

--
Cheese
 
macncheese said:
High heat causes Vikane (Sulfuryl Fluoride) to turn into Hydrofluoric acid + Sulfur Dioxide. Thats my guess.

--
Cheese
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100% correct, but not at the temperatures involved. It decays into exactly those two materials at and above 400°C (http://aic.stanford.edu/jaic/articles/jaic29-01-005_3.html), or about the same temperature that an uncooled Barton core reaches when you pop the heat sink off while it's running...;)
 
Firemane said:
You're right. But that's what I have in it, and that's what it would cost me to build a new dual-proc machine with identical features (save for a newer mobo and procs) via local retail.
Bingo!

To be honest, if they give me anything in compensation that isn't a complete insult, I'll not only be surprised, but also satisfied. They have a business to run - doling out 3k for a leaky server isn't favorable toward that end...;) But still - if the house was gonna get hot enough to deform plastic tubing, how hot would a running air-cooled machine have gotten - and would it have been damaged as well...?
Yes they did. The fumigant has to settle to work right. But I don't know how hot the house got while tented; maybe mid- to high-80s/low-90s...? :confused: Perception of Koolance's quality aside, the thing should have shut down (and in fact did, when the coolant stopped circulating) at 55°C at the proc.
It's been running in this config for months now at a nice, cool 33-34°C as measured at the downstream proc. at varying loads (it hits 36° at 100% on both procs);)
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I think it is safe to assume that your problem is heat related. If indeed your house temp was up in the 90's that would substantially increase the system temps. Also, An air cooled pc doesnt have flexable pvc tubing in it, tubing is heat rated... you should check koolance to find out those temps... it could be possible that the temp exceeded the amount of heat the tubing can take.

Now, as far as the company being responsible for paying you 3000 i disagree. If they pay anything it should be to fix or replace your current system to one with similar specs. After all, if you sold a car with 100,000 miles on it for a new car price no one would by it. Or for that matter if you wrecked a car with 100k on it insurance will not pay to buy you a new one... they give you blue book value.

If you want a similar system for $999
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applicat...Sku=C122-1412&SRCCODE=GOOPROD&CMP=OTC-FROOGLE

Try using some of your old equipment in the new one but dont expect more that 1500 in compensation. Good luck :D
 
Well, the insurance adjuster will be out today or tomorrow. I have quotes on identical systems (save for motherboard and procs), so whatever amount their arcane little insurance adjuster's calculator figures is what I'll get. Considering that I have "nothing" now, "something/anything" would be an improvement... :rolleyes:

Re the Tiger Direct quote: Wow! I really wonder where they're sourcing S2460 mobos from, since Tyan doesn't manufacture them anymore...? :eek:
 
And homeowner's insurance comes through in the clinch! I'm stuck with a $500 deductible, but beyond that they asked for a system quote/BOM that would exactly replicate the system, with allowances for parts that are no longer readily available (ie: mobo and procs).

Damn shame that they don't have some fancy machine to figure out why the shit hit the fan in the first place, but other than that I think I lucked out under the circumstances. :cool:

So here's what I learned through this whole ordeal:

  • Don't leave a computer, especially a custom/unusual one, running when the house is sealed off from all entry - nobody can stop an electrical fire if they're not there.
  • Vikane did not kill the system (what did - who knows); it's insoluable in most liquids including water and glycol solutions.
  • Never build/buy a water cooling rig that does not include either a moisture sensor inside the case or a coolant level kill switch inside the reservoir.
  • Renter's/Homeowner's insurance should always include a technology rider in case the worst happens.

At this point I think it's time to move on - the carnage is over, and now it's time to rebuild. :)
 
Too bad for your system and congrats on getting some sort of compensation from homeowner's insurance. I would just shut the server down for a day to be sure.
 
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