EVGA GTX 770 4GB vs. R290

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Enilder

Limp Gawd
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[Additional questions/comments located here: http://hardforum.com/showpost.php?p=1040366320&postcount=34]

I currently have a thread under "General Hardware" but I have some specific questions about video cards so I decided to post here (http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1781832). Also, I've seen very few threads about this card in 4GB setup so I'd like to get some help. Anyways, you can take a look at the parts list in that thread. In terms of the usage, I play quite a bit of MMO games and thinking of jumping onto FPS games like BF4. Later on, when Project CARS comes out, it will most likely be used for a racing sim. rig. with a triple monitor setup (it won't be a dedicated machine though). With these in mind, I got couple questions:

1) Considering the parts list in the other thread and the purpose of the rig, will I be able to take advantage of extra memory when I go SLI (x2 or x3 of GTX 770 4GB)? I am wondering what's going to be the bottleneck for this system and if extra memory is worth the extra cost. I've been reading threads about performance differences between NVIDIA 770/780 vs. R290/X and AMD cards appear to be performing better. Also, R290's 4GB card is priced below the 770 4GB (minus core clock).

2) Memory interface differences between R290 (512bit) vs. GTX770 (256bit). I know it's early to say anything about R290 until BF4 comes out in 2 weeks but wondering if it's worth pursuing this route for these differences.

3) I am currently torn between PSU. I was looking to get HX750 but there's an AX760 deal going on for about ~$110 AR. I was told that I need a stronger PSU for R290 x2 but not for GTX 770 x2. I was trying to approximate PSU requirement for both combinations and it kept on telling me to get 1000W+ PSU. Can I get some help on this?

4) Who are some of main go-to AMD GPU card brand? I've always had NVIDIA cards so I always go with EVGA. I've seen lots of sapphire and gigabyte AMD cards and they both appear to be solid in terms of customer service and products.

Thanks!
 
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just look at reviews and you will see the 770 is much slower than the 290 so it makes no sense to spend 400 bucks on a 4gb version. you better have one hell of a good case and tolerance for noise if considering 290 crossfire. and no a 750 watt psu would not it cut for 290 crossfire with any ocing at all. and if you are going to run a high end two gpu setup then you need to go ahead and get a 4770k over the 4670k. 4 cores is not going to be enough to fully push two high end gpus in all games so dont gimp yourself from the start. heck you cant even stay above 60 fps in Crysis 3 with just 4 cores.
 
Sapphire is the go-to radeon brand and BF4 has been out since the 29th.
 
The only problem with Sapphire is that their warranties tend to be for 2 years, whereas other companies typically offer 3 years.
 
raghu78 said:
OP R9 290 crushes a GTX 770. its in a different league altogether and with a custom cooler can compete with classy 780 OC and stay close behind 780 ti OC when all cards are overclocked

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?p=25264082

for amd sapphire, asus , msi and gigabyte are all fine. sapphire is considered the best amd partner
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lol, what? a 290 oced most certainly will not be close to an oced 780 ti in actual games. a stock 780 ti is already 20% faster than than a stock 290. the oc they got out of the 290 on TPU resulted in 15% more performance so it could not even catch the stock 780 ti. the 780 ti has more overclocking headroom which means it will only extend its lead over the 290 when both are oced.
 
HFBallad said:
The only problem with Sapphire is that their warranties tend to be for 2 years, whereas other companies typically offer 3 years.
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AMD cards vary greatly when it comes to warranty. That's one thing I liked better about nvidia cards with certain manufacturers.

The 290 is certainly the better choice, this is really a apples and oranges comparison.
 
cannondale06 said:
lol, what? a 290 oced most certainly will not be close to an oced 780 ti in actual games. a stock 780 ti is already 20% faster than than a stock 290. the oc they got out of the 290 on TPU resulted in 15% more performance so it could not even catch the stock 780 ti. the 780 ti has more overclocking headroom which means it will only extend its lead over the 290 when both are oced.
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sorry but i disagree.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2013/11/07/nvidia_geforce_gtx_780_ti_video_card_review/3

clock for clock GTX 780 Ti is not far ahead of R9 290X which in turn is 3 - 5% faster than R9 290 at same clocks. this has already been proven by many game benchmarks / synthetic benchmarks on ocn by users running their R9 290 at 1.2+ ghz overclocks. you will see this proven over and over by custom R9 290 reviews in the next few weeks and months. the only thing we need is custom R9 290 cards to be available. already users have started running accelero xtreme iii or gelid icy vision coolers and clocked this beast of a GPU to 1.2+ ghz.

btw since OP mentioned BF4 this is without Mantle. with Mantle its not going to be a contest. :D anyway for playing MMO games even a R9 290 is overkill
 
770 4GB is about on par with a 280x. So if you want that kind of performance save yourself $90 and get a 280x.

If you want to spend around $400, then its a simple answer. 290.
 
raghu78 said:
sorry but i disagree.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2013/11/07/nvidia_geforce_gtx_780_ti_video_card_review/3

clock for clock GTX 780 Ti is not far ahead of R9 290X which in turn is 3 - 5% faster than R9 290 at same clocks. this has already been proven by many game benchmarks / synthetic benchmarks on ocn by users running their R9 290 at 1.2+ ghz overclocks. you will see this proven over and over by custom R9 290 reviews in the next few weeks and months. the only thing we need is custom R9 290 cards to be available. already users have started running accelero xtreme iii or gelid icy vision coolers and clocked this beast of a GPU to 1.2+ ghz.

btw since OP mentioned BF4 this is without Mantle. with Mantle its not going to be a contest. :D anyway for playing MMO games even a R9 290 is overkill
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look at all other reviews and you will see that 780 ti is 20% faster than a 290 at 2560 and below. even in the TPU review where they have some cpu limited games its just under 20% overall at 2560 and 1920. and again the 780 ti has more overclocking headroom. so its a fact the 290 is not as fast as you think it is and the 780 ti will only add to its 20% lead when both are oced.
 
cannondale06 said:
you can disagree all you want but you are still wrong. look at all other reviews and you will see that 780 ti is 20-25% faster than a 290 at 2560 and below. even in the TPU review where they have some cpu limited games its just under 20% overall at 2560 and 1920. and again the 780 ti has more overclocking headroom. so its a fact the 290 is not as fast as you think it is and the 780 ti will only add to its 20% lead when both are oced.
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So you are saying [H] review is flawed then? I mean they play the games, not 3dmark
 
DASHlT said:
So you are saying [H] review is flawed then? I mean they play the games, not 3dmark
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where was was 3dmark ever mentioned? I never look at that nonsense for deciding how fast a card is. and there are more games than just the ones used on hardocp you know. plus just testing a game in a different area can have different results. and maybe you will be surprised to know that plenty of sites PLAY the games too. its not like very many games have a built in benchmark you now.
 
cannondale06 said:
where was was 3dmark ever mentioned? I never look at that nonsense for deciding how fast a card is. and there are more games than just the ones used on hardocp you know. and maybe you will be surprised to know that plenty of sites PLAY the games too. its not like very many games have a built in benchmark you now.
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Very true, but lately its been hard to know which website is biased and which one isnt.

I mean look at the Anandtech review, that reviewer is straight up biased. Lets not even bring up Tomshardware.

Either way, I usually go with [H] over other websites, specially when all the reviews are all over the place between them.
 
cannondale06 said:
where was was 3dmark ever mentioned? I never look at that nonsense for deciding how fast a card is. and there are more games than just the ones used on hardocp you know. and maybe you will be surprised to know that plenty of sites PLAY the games too. its not like very many games have a built in benchmark you now.
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Very true, but lately its been hard to know which website is biased and which one isnt.

I mean look at the Anandtech review, that reviewer is straight up biased. Lets not even bring up Tomshardware.

Either way, I usually go with [H] over other websites, specially when all the reviews are all over the place between them.
 
Here is a good example. The Techreport.com review shows the 780ti using way more power then the 290x, yet no other website reported it.

They also said the 780ti is only 10% faster then the 290, but is $300.

"For most folks, though, forking over 700 bucks for the GTX 780 Ti will seem like madness when the Radeon R9 290 offers 90% of the performance for $300 less. Yeah, the Radeon is noisier, but I'm pretty sure $300 will buy a lifetime supply of those foam earplugs at Walgreens. Heck, throw in another hundred bucks, and you could have dual R9 290s, which should presumably outperform the GTX 780 Ti handily."

Who the fuck are we suppose to believe? Might as go with [H] since there reviews are usually on point.
 
Here is a good example. The Techreport.com review shows the 780ti using way more power then the 290x, yet no other website reported it.

They also said the 780ti is only 10% faster then the 290, but is $300 more.

"For most folks, though, forking over 700 bucks for the GTX 780 Ti will seem like madness when the Radeon R9 290 offers 90% of the performance for $300 less. Yeah, the Radeon is noisier, but I'm pretty sure $300 will buy a lifetime supply of those foam earplugs at Walgreens. Heck, throw in another hundred bucks, and you could have dual R9 290s, which should presumably outperform the GTX 780 Ti handily."

Who the fuck are we suppose to believe? Might as go with [H] since there reviews are usually on point.
 
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well its not literally 90% of the performance there. look through their actual numbers and it is just under 20% there. yeah they used Skyrim for their power consumption numbers so not sure how that ended up pushing the 780 ti so high.

lol we are on the forums at the worst time to try and post as you see. anyway off to bed here...
 
cannondale06 said:
well its not literally 90% of the performance there. look through their actual numbers and it is just under 20% there. yeah they used Skyrim for their power consumption numbers so not sure how that ended up pushing the 780 ti so high.

lol we are on the forums at the worst time to try and post as you see. anyway off to bed here...
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Yea I was worried I was going to triple post or something.

Get a good night sleep bro :) Love our late night debates lol
 
cannondale06 said:
look at all other reviews and you will see that 780 ti is 20% faster than a 290 at 2560 and below. even in the TPU review where they have some cpu limited games its just under 20% overall at 2560 and 1920. and again the 780 ti has more overclocking headroom. so its a fact the 290 is not as fast as you think it is and the 780 ti will only add to its 20% lead when both are oced.
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You are so clueless. The guy links actual data to back up his statement and how do you respond? Care to show us where are you getting your facts from? Show me an article that's compares oc'd 780ti vs 290/290x that matches what you say. Better yet, link a few since this is such common knowledge.
 
DASHlT said:
Here is a good example. The Techreport.com review shows the 780ti using way more power then the 290x, yet no other website reported it.

They also said the 780ti is only 10% faster then the 290, but is $300.

"For most folks, though, forking over 700 bucks for the GTX 780 Ti will seem like madness when the Radeon R9 290 offers 90% of the performance for $300 less. Yeah, the Radeon is noisier, but I'm pretty sure $300 will buy a lifetime supply of those foam earplugs at Walgreens. Heck, throw in another hundred bucks, and you could have dual R9 290s, which should presumably outperform the GTX 780 Ti handily."

Who the fuck are we suppose to believe? Might as go with [H] since there reviews are usually on point.
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yeah at max OC with a good custom cooler a R9 290(1.25 ghz) is 5 - 10% slower than a GTX 780(1.3 Ghz) for a USD 225 - 250 difference ( note: i am adding the cost of accelero xtreme iii) . custom r9 290 cards like asus dcii top or his iceq x2 would be even cheaper at around USD 430 - 450 and be an amazing vallue for money. other than e-peen the custom GTX 780 Ti and for that matter even a custom R9 290X is not going to offer a significant change in gaming experience over a custom R9 290 when all are pushed to the max.
 
trungracingdev said:
You are so clueless. The guy links actual data to back up his statement and how do you respond? Care to show us where are you getting your facts from? Show me an article that's compares oc'd 780ti vs 290/290x that matches what you say. Better yet, link a few since this is such common knowledge.
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I am clueless yet you lack the ability to comprehend anything I just said there? lets use exact numbers and disregard that a couple games on TPU are a little cpu limited. the 780 ti is 15% faster than the 290 on TPU performance summery at 1920 and 2560. yes going from 87% to 100% is 15% improvement so dont get confused. on TPU they have oced the 290 in their 290 review and have picked up almost 15%. well that would make the 290 basically even with the stock 780 ti. but when they oced the 780 ti they picked up just over 18% more performance. simple math would show that the 780 ti oced is now a little over 18% faster than the 290. now they only use BF 3 to show their oc performance results but other than was it so hard to figure that out?
 
raghu78 said:
yeah at max OC with a good custom cooler a R9 290(1.25 ghz) is 5 - 10% slower than a GTX 780(1.3 Ghz) for a USD 225 - 250 difference ( note: i am adding the cost of accelero xtreme iii) . custom r9 290 cards like asus dcii top or his iceq x2 would be even cheaper at around USD 430 - 450 and be an amazing vallue for money. other than e-peen the custom GTX 780 Ti and for that matter even a custom R9 290X is not going to offer a significant change in gaming experience over a custom R9 290 when all are pushed to the max.
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I assume you mean the 780ti and not the 780? Either way the 290 is WAY better then a 770 4gb.
 
trungracingdev said:
You are so clueless. The guy links actual data to back up his statement and how do you respond? Care to show us where are you getting your facts from? Show me an article that's compares oc'd 780ti vs 290/290x that matches what you say. Better yet, link a few since this is such common knowledge.
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some need to check their perceptions.
I would call this pretty much evens out.
a 290 will own this space for a gamer especially if you like to OC a bit.
IMO there is no real option than amd and a 290 today if your not branded.

http://semiaccurate.com/forums/showpost.php?p=199241&postcount=661
nv-amd.png
 
trungracingdev said:
You are so clueless. The guy links actual data to back up his statement and how do you respond? Care to show us where are you getting your facts from? Show me an article that's compares oc'd 780ti vs 290/290x that matches what you say. Better yet, link a few since this is such common knowledge.
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well said. i care only about value. thats why the R9 290 is the card to get. not the R9 290X. sorry but i will gladly take the clock for clock 3 - 5% lower performance of R9 290 wrt R9 290X anyday and pocket the USD 150. :D
 
raghu78 said:
well said. i care only about value. thats why the R9 290 is the card to get. not the R9 290X. sorry but i will gladly take the clock for clock 3 - 5% lower performance of R9 290 wrt R9 290X anyday and pocket the USD 150. :D
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no, not well said. he did not even comprehend even simple math that shows the oced 290 is not as fast as the oced 780ti like you claimed. you were the one that started this with your exaggeration.
 
cannondale06 said:
no, not well said. he did not even comprehend even simple math that shows the oced 290 is not as fast as the oced 780ti like you claimed. you were the one that started this with your exaggeration.
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What clock speed are you talking about when you're referring to the 780Ti overclocked? Because once you start ramping up the resolution, no amount of speed is going to help that pitiful 3GB VRAM.
 
Cool Vibrations said:
What clock speed are you talking about when you're referring to the 780Ti overclocked? Because once you start ramping up the resolution, no amount of speed is going to help that pitiful 3GB VRAM.
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I am referring to 2560 and below. and you can just go to TPU for yourself and look at their reviews for more details.
 
cannondale06 said:
no, not well said. he did not even comprehend even simple math that shows the oced 290 is not as fast as the oced 780ti like you claimed. you were the one that started this with your exaggeration.
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i still stand by what i said. and its not exaggeration. its reality. you are the disllusioned person. unless you have a R9 290 custom cooler max OC vs GTX 780 Ti max OC review you don't have any facts based on which you are talking. maybe you should visit ocn, ocuk and other forums and see the R9 290 cards at 1.2 - 1.25 ghz scores in games and synthetic benchmarks. :p
 
raghu78 said:
i still stand by what i said. and its not exaggeration. its reality. you are the disllusioned person. unless you have a R9 290 custom cooler max OC vs GTX 780 Ti max OC review you don't have any facts based on which you are talking. maybe you should visit ocn, ocuk and other forums and see the R9 290 cards at 1.2 - 1.25 ghz scores in games and synthetic benchmarks. :p
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ok sticking with simple math based on what I have already said about the reviews from TPU, you are claiming that with an aftermarket cooler that the 290 can pick up an additional 18% performance on top of the nearly 15% it picked up with reference cooler. that means it would need to raise the clockspeeds well over 20% higher since of course you know its not going to scale 1:1. and they were already at 1125 for their oc so that means it would need to get to 1350 or more. so is 1350 and above happening over there with 50-75 dollar aftermarket coolers? if not then perhaps I am not delusional.
 
cannondale06 said:
ok sticking with simple math based on what I have already said about the reviews from TPU, you are claiming that with an aftermarket cooler that the 290 can pick up an additional 18% performance on top of the nearly 15% it picked up with reference cooler. that means it would need to raise the clockspeeds well over 20% higher since of course you know its not going to scale 1:1. and they were already at 1125 for their oc so that means it would need to get to 1350 or more. so is 1350 and above happening over there with 50-75 dollar aftermarket coolers? if not then perhaps I am not delusional.
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wait for custom R9 290 / R9 290X reviews from hardocp. they will obviously do a full max OC review and pit all 4 cards R9 290, R9 290X, GTX 780 , GTX 780 Ti. you will see that GTX 780 Ti OC might be avg 7 - 10% ahead of R9 290 OC for a USD 250 - 300 price difference.
 
Why even argue at this point, anyway. The 780 Ti today isn't that great of a buy due to VRAM and price. Once the 6GB and higher units get out, it's a different story.
 
Interesting posts. In the end, all you guys are recommending 290 over that GPU. lol! Some additional questions and comments...I don't think I've gotten any answers to other questions. Please keep in mind that I am not specifically building this rig for "BF4." Project CARS seems to use phyx so I am wondering if it's worth sticking to NVIDIA's product. My guess is not. Anyways, 1440P triple monitor setup is what I am after.

A) CPU/MOBO Combo.
-I currently have 4670k and ASUS Z87-A on my list...Is 4670k really that inferior compared to 4770k? Can anyone make any comments on MOBO as well?

B) Is Mantle supposed to be AMD equivalent of NVIDIA's phyx?

C) Are any HD series worth looking into?
-Personally, I don't like to go "back in time" but I don't know much about AMD cards to make this decision.

1) Considering the parts list in the other thread and the purpose of the rig, will I be able to take advantage of extra memory when I go SLI (x2 or x3 of GTX 770 4GB)?
-So most likely, cheaper and faster AMD cards with equivalent memory is the way to go. OK.

2) Memory interface differences between R290 (512bit) vs. GTX770 (256bit).
-I know it's early to say anything about R290 until BF4 comes out in 2 weeks but wondering if it's worth pursuing this route for these differences. I am wondering how relevant it is for gaming.

3) PSU Options.
-I was looking to get HX750 but there's an AX760 deal going on for about ~$110 AR. I was told that I need a stronger PSU for R290 x2 but not for GTX 770 x2. I was trying to approximate PSU requirement for both combinations and it kept on telling me to get 1000W+ PSU. Can I get some help on this? "Final" setup will be something like R290 x2 or R290X x2 setup. It seems like I should go after either:

AX860
HX850
Seasonic products...? (I know Corsair PSU is Seasonic PSU but I don't really know their line of products...)

4) Who are some of main go-to AMD GPU card brand?
-Looks like Sapphire appears to be the way to go.
 
cannondale06 said:
I am clueless yet you lack the ability to comprehend anything I just said there? lets use exact numbers and disregard that a couple games on TPU are a little cpu limited. the 780 ti is 15% faster than the 290 on TPU performance summery at 1920 and 2560. yes going from 87% to 100% is 15% improvement so dont get confused. on TPU they have oced the 290 in their 290 review and have picked up almost 15%. well that would make the 290 basically even with the stock 780 ti. but when they oced the 780 ti they picked up just over 18% more performance. simple math would show that the 780 ti oced is now a little over 18% faster than the 290. now they only use BF 3 to show their oc performance results but other than was it so hard to figure that out?
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I asked you to show me where are you getting all these oc 780ti vs 290 from and you straight up avoid the question. This thread alone has several links to places that do show these results, why don't you take a little time to read them instead of living in your fantasy where only nvidia cards can oc well. You have a cheap card, no wonder you are so bitter at all these nice new cheap cards coming out.
 
That's the wrong icy cooler you keep linking to as that is for HD79xx.. the $54 dollar one is the one you want..

http://forums.overclockers.co.uk/showthread.php?p=25264082

That guy may be of one of the best overclockers in the world I don't know .. but he wasn't to clear on the overclocking if he had stayed at stock voltage or not because there is no support for AMD yet so that may or may not be the limit yet for AMD.

But for a ref board the little 290 was kicking some ass..and to think what is yet to come with better AIB boards.
 
trungracingdev said:
I asked you to show me where are you getting all these oc 780ti vs 290 from and you straight up avoid the question. This thread alone has several links to places that do show these results, why don't you take a little time to read them instead of living in your fantasy where only nvidia cards can oc well. You have a cheap card, no wonder you are so bitter at all these nice new cheap cards coming out.
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so you cant read and now you are trying to make it personal as if my gtx660ti has anything to do with whats being discussed. I told you exactly where I was getting the oc results from and exactly the numbers they were getting. and not that it matters but I can buy any card I want but dont see the point right now when 99% of the games in my backlog are not the least bit demanding.
 
cannondale06 said:
so you cant read and now you are trying to make it personal as if my gtx660ti has anything to do with whats being discussed. I told you exactly where I was getting the oc results from and exactly the numbers they were getting. and not that it matters but I can buy any card I want but dont see the point right now when 99% of the games in my backlog are not the least bit demanding.
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You are full of shit. Link me the numbers that support your argument. OC'd 780ti vs 290/290x. Show me how that $700 card is killing the $400 and $550 card. Your card is low end and yet you are here spouting bs on every thread that has the 290 in it. You talk of these oc's, yet you have zero experience with these cards and how they oc. You also demerit the 290 oc'ing ability and of course....you don't own one. Not every card ocs the same. You really want to compare, just compare stock numbers on all these cards. It just leaves the 780ti as the sole expensive card that cannot be recommended because it isn't worth its price premium. Hell even the 780 makes the 780ti looks shameful, its a full $200 cheaper and almost as fast.
 
trungracingdev said:
You are full of shit. Link me the numbers that support your argument. OC'd 780ti vs 290/290x. Show me how that $700 card is killing the $400 and $550 card. Your card is low end and yet you are here spouting bs on every thread that has the 290 in it. You talk of these oc's, yet you have zero experience with these cards and how they oc. You also demerit the 290 oc'ing ability and of course....you don't own one. Not every card ocs the same. You really want to compare, just compare stock numbers on all these cards. It just leaves the 780ti as the sole expensive card that cannot be recommended because it isn't worth its price premium. Hell even the 780 makes the 780ti looks shameful, its a full $200 cheaper and almost as fast.
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really? I have already told you the exact site and the exact results that got. let me break it down real good for you to see if it sinks in.

TPU showed the 780 ti has being 15% faster than the 290. http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_780_Ti/27.html

TPU had oced the 290 in thier 290 review and got almost 15% more performance.
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/R9_290/29.html

now lets pause there so you dont get confused again. that means the 290 when oced with reference cooler will be right at the stock 780 ti performance level.

TPU got an additional 18% more performance out of the 780 ti with reference cooler.
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_780_Ti/30.html

now AGAIN, the simple math would show that when both are oced the 780 ti is actually going to be a little over 18% faster than the oced 290.


now raghu78 is saying that with an aftermarket cooler the 290 would match the oced 780 ti. that would mean an additional 18% more performance would have to be extracted on top of the already 14% that was received when oced. to get another 18%, you know it would take way more than 20% higher clocks on top of that. that means more than 20% higher clocks on top of the 1125 that got in the review. that means well over 1350 with nearly 1:1 scaling would be needed to catch the 780 ti oc.

how many fucking times does that have to be said to you for you to grasp that? not to mention there will also be 780 ti cards with better coolers too that will allow higher overclocking.
 
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