Everytime I turn on my Vista 64bit pc, it takes down the internet

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leh18621

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I am hoping I am posting this is the correct area of this site.

We have three other pc's at home (two are Vista 32 bit, the other is XP), one xbox360, two Wii's, and one ps3. They all connect to the internet with a wireless connection.

I have two Cisco/linksys wireless routers that I have tried and the problem is the same regardless of which one I try to use. I have a WRT54GL and a WRT160NL. I have tried various firmware versions for both. Haven't tried any third party firmware though.

The problem is my pc listed in my sig. It is the only Vista 64-bit device we have in the house. The internet runs fine as long as my pc is turned off. As soon as I turn it on, none of the devices I listed have internet access any more (nor does the 64bit pc). As soon as I turn off the Vista 64bit pc the internet is fine for everybody else again. On the Vista 64-bit pc I have tried both hard wired as well as a wireless NIC's. Doesn't matter. I have tried putting in a static IP address as well as DHCP, neither makes a difference. Also, I installed Vista Business 32-bit on another hard drive for this pc and as soon as I did that my pc no longer took down the internet. It is obviously a problem with Vista 64-bit.

I have spent hours googling this. Apparently it is a common problem with 64-bit OS's and a lot of people are having this problem. So far I have formatted and reinstalled Vista on the pc in question to rule that out. I have disabled IPv6, turned down the speed on the NIC to 10mb Full Duplex, disabled wireless security on the router, install all updates to the pc as well as confirmed the router is on the latest firmware. Basically I have tried everything that I have come across as a possible solution and still no luck.

Unless someone has an idea, I will either switch to Vista 32bit or buy a new Netgear router. Apparently this is a known issue with Linksys/Cisco routers, and my previous Netgear router I never had any problems with until it died which is why I mentioned buying another one.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
 
I have an ethernet cable run to and connected to that pc now and still have the problem. I have tried connecting the Vista 64bit pc with the ethernet network card as well as tried a wireless network card. The problem exists regardless of which one I try to use in the pc.
 
The sad thing is, I never had this problem for the 18 months that I used a cheap $29 Netgear router. As soon as I bought the more expesive Linksys/Cisco routers is when the problem began.
 
I have a WRT54GL and a WRT160NL. The problem exists regardless of which one I try. I don't remember the model of the Netgear router I had that I never had this problem with. When it died after 18 months I threw it away.

I bought the WRT160NL first and after fighting with this problem for two months I gave up and decided to buy the WRT54GL a month ago and the problem remains.
 
Have you ruled out that your specific PC could be infected with malware, and as soon as it connects to the network, it begins flooding with outgoing connections?
 
leh18621 said:
I have a WRT54GL and a WRT160NL. The problem exists regardless of which one I try. I don't remember the model of the Netgear router I had that I never had this problem with. When it died after 18 months I threw it away.

I bought the WRT160NL first and after fighting with this problem for two months I gave up and decided to buy the WRT54GL a month ago and the problem remains.
Click to expand...

I have 3 vista 64 pcs in my house with a wrt54gl. what firmware are you running? you could try dd-wrt...
Posted via [H] Mobile Device
 
Does it stop working for devices already connected, or does it just stop devices which try to connect afterwards? If so, you've probably got a DHCP server running on your Vista x64 machine.

Incidentally, I'd suggest that this is not a common problem with 64-bit operating systems otherwise plenty of people on this forum would certainly have had it before (most of the population here have been 64-bit for quite some time). It might be the case that a lot of people who have this problem are using Vista x64 (or even any 64-bit OS) but that is an entirely different proposition to this being a common problem with 64-bit OSs. FWIW, I've been running Linksys routers of some form for the last 6 years and I've had a 64-bit OS (lots of them, in fact) for a lot of that time, and this hasn't happened - I think your problem is deeper than that.

One thing which might be causing problems is UPnP (I think it's called Network Discovery in Vista) - try disabling it: http://windowshelp.microsoft.com/Windows/en-US/Help/32f3845b-eda0-4168-be8d-90f07250d8101033.mspx

Also try disabling it on your router (should be under Administration tab on the Linksys).
 
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MightyDiomed said:
Have you ruled out that your specific PC could be infected with malware, and as soon as it connects to the network, it begins flooding with outgoing connections?
Click to expand...

I formatted the hard drive last night and reloaded Vista 64-bit and the problem still exists.
 
ocellaris said:
I have 3 vista 64 pcs in my house with a wrt54gl. what firmware are you running? you could try dd-wrt...
Posted via [H] Mobile Device
Click to expand...

Firmware Version: v2.0.02 build 008Aug 6, 2008

It was the only firmware from the manufacturer's website that I could get any connectivity with.
 
:LJ: said:
Does it stop working for devices already connected, or does it just stop devices which try to connect afterwards? If so, you've probably got a DHCP server running on your Vista x64 machine.
Click to expand...

Both. When I turn on the Vista 64-bit pc it kills all pc's/consoles that were already connected, and won't let any pc that you turn on after that have internet connectivity.

Thank's for the heads up about UPnP, I will give it a shot.
 
You know what... you say it "takes down the internet" but you are incorrect... the internet is still running even though you can't access it! - Just thought I'd point that out. ;)
 
leh18621 said:
Firmware Version: v2.0.02 build 008Aug 6, 2008

It was the only firmware from the manufacturer's website that I could get any connectivity with.
Click to expand...

Try DD-WRT or Tomato firmware, either of those will completely replace the Linksys firmware. If your PC still boots everything offline, then you know its not a Linksys issue, and it is something in your setup.

What NIC is in your PC? Could be an issue with the NIC not working correctly in Vista 64 and spamming requests to knock the router offline. Try putting newer drivers on a flash drive and update your Vista 64 PC, also get any applicable BIOS updates and such while you are at it. You said the problem also happened on wireless, was the PC still hard wired at the time? Have your tried your PC in another room in case this is a wiring issue (not likely, but stranger things have happened, I've seen 'bad' NIC cables only fail in certain OSes and cause much hair pulling along).
 
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I have a hunch...It could be that you've somehow set up the Windows Vista machine as a network host, and it's fighting with your router over who should control the network.

What IP is the Windows Vista computer attempting to take? If it's 192.168.0.1, we've found your problem.

I suppose you could also try disabling IPv6, I remember some people having issues with it during Vista's beta phase.
 
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I've recently been having a similar but not quite as severe problem. Sometimes if I try to run a torrent or even just logging into or raiding in WoW it'll take down my internet connection and I'll have to restart my router. The session spamming thing seems very plausible since I do see a correlation; when I have a torrent with a particularly large number of seeders/leechers and/or I log into Dalaran during peak hours (busiest place in WoW) or attempt to raid, the problem seems to occur much more frequently. I'm also using a Linksys router, with Tomato even.

However I've never gotten this particular problem by simply turning on my PC.
 
ocellaris said:
What NIC is in your PC? Could be an issue with the NIC not working correctly in Vista 64 and spamming requests to knock the router offline. Try putting newer drivers on a flash drive and update your Vista 64 PC, also get any applicable BIOS updates and such while you are at it. You said the problem also happened on wireless, was the PC still hard wired at the time? Have your tried your PC in another room in case this is a wiring issue (not likely, but stranger things have happened, I've seen 'bad' NIC cables only fail in certain OSes and cause much hair pulling along).
Click to expand...

It is an onboard NIC, I would have to check it when I get back home from work. I have tried a wireless NIC in the pc as well and the problem occurs if I use that also. Keep in mind I never had this problem when I used a $29 Netgear router. When it died I bought the two Linksys routers that I have previously mentioned. If it were up to me I would go buy another Netgear but the wife is ticked off that I spent $130 to buy those two Linksys routers already this year and we can't get either of them to work properly.

I think I tried another network cable but can't remember. I will go home and replace the cable tonight just to rule that out.
 
Unknown-One said:
I have a hunch...It could be that you've somehow set up the Windows Vista machine as a network host, and it's fighting with your router over who should control the network.

What IP is the Windows Vista computer attempting to take? If it's 192.168.0.1, we've found your problem.

I suppose you could also try disabling IPv6, I remember some people having issues with it during Vista's beta phase.
Click to expand...

The router is hard set to 192.168.1.9 and I set a static IP on the Vista 64-bit pc to 192.168.1.15. Also, I have already disabled IPv6. I am really wondering if I need to try the DD-WRT firmware. I started looking into it but I am getting confused with what seems like mulitple versions of it, etc.
 
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leh18621 said:
I formatted the hard drive last night and reloaded Vista 64-bit and the problem still exists.
Click to expand...

When you reloaded it, did you try NOT installing anything else? By that I mean have you attempted to install Vista 64 with no other drivers, software, etc then see if the problem exists?

Is this a legitimate copy of Vista?
 
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SlowCobra said:
When you reloaded it, did you try NOT installing anything else? By that I mean have you attempted to install Vista 64 with no other drivers, software, etc then see if the problem exists?

Is this a legitimate copy of Vista?
Click to expand...

Yes, it is a legitmate copy of Vista. The pc is an HP prebuilt, model D4890y. After I formated and restored the hard drive to factory new image condition the only thing I installed was SP1 and SP2 for Vista.
 
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leh18621 said:
Yes, it is a legitmate copy of Vista. The pc is an HP prebuilt, model D4890y. After I formated at restored the hard to factory new image condition the only thing I installed was SP1 and SP2 for Vista.
Click to expand...

Try to uninstall SP2 and see if the issue persists. Or reformat and only install SP1. Report back, :)
 
SlowCobra said:
Try to uninstall SP2 and see if the issue persists. Or reformat and only install SP1. Report back, :)
Click to expand...

Actually, before I formatted on Friday it only ever had SP1 on it. Friday night was the first time it ever had SP2 on it. Right now the Vista 64-bit pc is on and the internet is working for all pc's but I am not getting excited yet. Many times I would make a change to the router or my pc and "magically" the internet would work great for anywhere from one to seven days at which point the problem would resurface (meaning: if the Vista 64-bit pc was on no one would have internet).

An interesting thing over the past three months since I switched to the two linksys/cisco routers and have been going through all of this: once the problem starts again the only way I can get internet activity again is to switch from the WRT54GL to the WRT160NL, or vice versa. It's almost like once the problem starts acting up, the only way I can ever get that particular router to ever work again is to litteraly unplug it for a couple of days and use the other one. Within a few days whatever router I am using will have the problem again and the only way I can get internet back is to unplug it and hook the other one back up. Constantly switching is the generally the only way to restore internet use. For whatever reason, once the problem starts up, unpluging the power to the router for a few days somehow resets something and that is the ONLY way it will work again for a few more days.

I sure hope that made some sense and I apologize if it didn't.
 
leh18621 said:
Actually, before I formatted on Friday it only ever had SP1 on it. Friday night was the first time it ever had SP2 on it. Right now the Vista 64-bit pc is on and the internet is working for all pc's but I am not getting excited yet. Many times I would make a change to the router or my pc and "magically" the internet would work great for anywhere from one to seven days at which point the problem would resurface (meaning: if the Vista 64-bit pc was on no one would have internet).

An interesting thing over the past three months since I switched to the two linksys/cisco routers and have been going through all of this: once the problem starts again the only way I can get internet activity again is to switch from the WRT54GL to the WRT160NL, or vice versa. It's almost like once the problem starts acting up, the only way I can ever get that particular router to ever work again is to litteraly unplug it for a couple of days and use the other one. Within a few days whatever router I am using will have the problem again and the only way I can get internet back is to unplug it and hook the other one back up. Constantly switching is the generally the only way to restore internet use. For whatever reason, once the problem starts up, unpluging the power to the router for a few days somehow resets something and that is the ONLY way it will work again for a few more days.

I sure hope that made some sense and I apologize if it didn't.
Click to expand...

You are just making this hard on yourself at this point. Go stick DD-WRT on the 54GL, make as few changes as you need to for the default config. This is moderately important because sssooo many of the problems people have with DD-WRT (and other router firmware) are completely self inflicted. One wrong setting can ruin a network in seconds and takes much longer to fix :eek:

DD-WRT has a forum just packed with information. It takes a bit to dig through it all at first, however it is really more simple than it sounds. If you want to read almost everything you need to know, look at this: http://www.dd-wrt.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=51486 Then go to the supported hardware page and type in WRT54GL. The recommended version should be 12533, this is the one you want. Get the _mini_generic.bin and the _std_generic.bin files. You need two firmware because some WRT54GL can only be initially flashed with 3MB firmwares, then you can flash them with 4MB firmwares after that. More than likely, you do not need to flash twice, however these steps do not harm, it just wastes 5 minutes of your life.

Reset your current WRT54GL firmware to defaults with a "30/30/30 reset" (Google this). When the router comes back up, connect to it and flash the _mini_generic.bin through the web UI. Wait a few minutes for the router to reboot, connect to it again and it will be running DD-WRT. Do another 30/30/30 reset. Then flash the _std_generic.bin firmware on there. This is the full standard version of DD-WRT. Reset it again, then go nuts.

Once you get that running, try just enabling Wireless security (if needed) and enable uPnP if you need that. Let the router handle most of the work unless you really need to mess with stuff (DD-WRT will assign devices the same IP everytime you connect for example, without needed to run static IPs). I would be shocked if you continued to have problems, and at that point I would start blaming other PCs on the network and the supernatural.
 
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ocellaris said:
You are just making this hard on yourself at this point. Go stick DD-WRT on the 54GL, make as few changes as you need to for the default config. This is moderately important because sssooo many of the problems people have with DD-WRT (and other router firmware) are completely self inflicted. One wrong setting can ruin a network in seconds and takes much longer to fix :eek:

DD-WRT has a forum just packed with information. It takes a bit to dig through it all at first, however it is really more simple than it sounds. If you want to read almost everything you need to know, look at this: http://www.dd-wrt.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=51486 Then go to the supported hardware page and type in WRT54GL. The recommended version should be 12533, this is the one you want. Get the _mini_generic.bin and the _std_generic.bin files. You need two firmware because some WRT54GL can only be initially flashed with 3MB firmwares, then you can flash them with 4MB firmwares after that. More than likely, you do not need to flash twice, however these steps do not harm, it just wastes 5 minutes of your life.

Reset your current WRT54GL firmware to defaults with a "30/30/30 reset" (Google this). When the router comes back up, connect to it and flash the _mini_generic.bin through the web UI. Wait a few minutes for the router to reboot, connect to it again and it will be running DD-WRT. Do another 30/30/30 reset. Then flash the _std_generic.bin firmware on there. This is the full standard version of DD-WRT. Reset it again, then go nuts.

Once you get that running, try just enabling Wireless security (if needed) and enable uPnP if you need that. Let the router handle most of the work unless you really need to mess with stuff (DD-WRT will assign devices the same IP everytime you connect for example, without needed to run static IPs). I would be shocked if you continued to have problems, and at that point I would start blaming other PCs on the network and the supernatural.
Click to expand...

I appreciate all the info and will get started with the DD-WRT. Thanks again. One quick question, we have VoIP (Vonage) as well as use a Cisco VPN client to work from home at times, will the _std_generic.bin files still be what we need and will allow us to do these two things? I only ask because I saw files there for a VoIP and VPN version.
 
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leh18621 said:
I appreciate all the info and will get started with the DD-WRT. Thanks again. One quick question, we have VoIP (Vonage) as well as use a Cisco VPN client to work from home at times, will the _std_generic.bin files still be what we need and will allow us to do these two things? I only ask because I saw files there for a VoIP and VPN version.
Click to expand...

the vpn version has an openvpn client and server setup on it, so you can skip that. the voip version runs milkfish which you do not need (www.milkfish.org).
Posted via [H] Mobile Device
 
leh18621 said:
Yes, it is a legitmate copy of Vista. The pc is an HP prebuilt, model D4890y. After I formated and restored the hard drive to factory new image condition the only thing I installed was SP1 and SP2 for Vista.
Click to expand...

Nobody spotted that this might be causing the problem?

Try installing Vista from scratch, not using HP's installation image (which will have a whole lot of software on it that could be causing your problem).
 
bigdogchris said:
Is there a firmware upgrade for the router?
Click to expand...
MightyDiomed said:
Have you ruled out that your specific PC could be infected with malware, and as soon as it connects to the network, it begins flooding with outgoing connections?
Click to expand...
Wow, reading comprehendo fail...

leh18621 said:
I have tried various firmware versions for both.
So far I have formatted and reinstalled Vista on the pc in question to rule that out.
confirmed the router is on the latest firmware
Click to expand...



At any rate, OP... A very rare problem, but one I've heard about a few times, is that Vista actually can screw with some networking equipment. Theoretically in the book switches should be OS-independent, you'd think. It's a combo if IPv6, UPnP, and some other services (I've never found any "1" thing that causes it).
See this KB article for more info, if you'd like: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/932134
That link includes a tool that you can use to test compatibility with your router.
This is why I've said many times, that Vista is sometimes too smart for its own good when it comes to networking. XP might connect right off (using the params set) but Vista goes through it's nonsense of trying to identify and configure everything... Times like these, it's just a pain. Vista networking is my main beef with it.

I'd just second what everyone else says and try flashing DDWRT or Tomato onto the router (IMO I like Tomato better, easier interface and seems to require less router reboots). Should resolve your problem. Most of the times the routers themselves can handle new firmware/features just fine, the problem lies with the device manufacturer...
 
leh18621 said:
I appreciate all the info and will get started with the DD-WRT. Thanks again. One quick question, we have VoIP (Vonage) as well as use a Cisco VPN client to work from home at times, will the _std_generic.bin files still be what we need and will allow us to do these two things? I only ask because I saw files there for a VoIP and VPN version.
Click to expand...

Meh, that's why I didn't like DDWRT. Too needlessly complicated. Download Tomato, forward your VPN port, done.
 
TechieSooner said:
Wow, reading comprehendo fail...





At any rate, OP... A very rare problem, but one I've heard about a few times, is that Vista actually can screw with some networking equipment. Theoretically in the book switches should be OS-independent, you'd think. It's a combo if IPv6, UPnP, and some other services (I've never found any "1" thing that causes it).
See this KB article for more info, if you'd like: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/932134
That link includes a tool that you can use to test compatibility with your router.
This is why I've said many times, that Vista is sometimes too smart for its own good when it comes to networking. XP might connect right off (using the params set) but Vista goes through it's nonsense of trying to identify and configure everything... Times like these, it's just a pain. Vista networking is my main beef with it.

I'd just second what everyone else says and try flashing DDWRT or Tomato onto the router (IMO I like Tomato better, easier interface and seems to require less router reboots). Should resolve your problem. Most of the times the routers themselves can handle new firmware/features just fine, the problem lies with the device manufacturer...
Click to expand...

I am going to give DDWRT a try hopefully tonight, if not then tomorrow night. If the problem is still there after a few days I will try Tomato. Thanks for the advice, and thanks to everybody offering suggestions.
 
TechieSooner said:
See this KB article for more info, if you'd like: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/932134
Click to expand...

Now this seems to make a lot of sense to me. As I mentioned if I unplug either of the routers for a couple of days and then hook it back up again it will work fine for a couple of days until it goes back down again. What they are talking about in the article seems to be exactly what is happening. I definitely would like to try running this tool. Thanks for the link.
 
TechieSooner said:
Meh, that's why I didn't like DDWRT. Too needlessly complicated. Download Tomato, forward your VPN port, done.
Click to expand...

The VOIP and VPN versions are just tuned up versions of DD-WRT IIRC. Or as specifically tuned builds for routers that don't have enough RAM to shove all the features in. It's not really that complicated.

As someone else pointed out you might try a standard Vista install instead of the O.S. image disk. Could be some HP junk on there causing trouble.

I'd start with the router and do DD-WRT first though before getting more exotic.
 
OP: Have you tried disabling UPnP on your router yet? Everything I've read about these symptoms (including two posts in this thread) suggest that it's at least partially responsible....
 
:LJ: said:
OP: Have you tried disabling UPnP on your router yet? Everything I've read about these symptoms (including two posts in this thread) suggest that it's at least partially responsible....
Click to expand...

Yes, it doesn't stop working as often, but it still does after disabling UPnP.
 
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