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Every 24" LCD Negative?

B

ben chi(f4)

2[H]4U
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
2,340
So, I've been reading the Display forum for a while and have gone back and forth through all the 24" monitors that people have posted on here (since I'm in the market to buy one) and I've come to one conclusion. Everyone seems to have a bad review on the monitors they have and either they have sent them back, or bleed to much, or don't have the right gamma settings, or they are too green...

I've read the review for the 2408 and now I'm leaning on not getting that monitor...
I've read the review for the Westy L2410NM and people say they don't like it...

I guess what I'm trying to get to is... which monitor would be best for gaming and some Photoshop use and I could run my monitor to HD from my Video Card?
 
indeed. i have just three complaints about it

1. no DVI plug, you have to use the included DVI->HDMI cable
2. you should be able to lock the height and pivot adjustments
3. the base shouldn't be glossy

all relatively trivial. it has nice color reproduction, easy to use OSD interface, sleek design, lots of flexibility in the positioning on the screen (height, tilt, pivot and swivel), very low lag for a 24" screen (i don't have a CRT to compare to, but the lag is almost exactly the same as my old 17" TN based sony), and awesome viewing angles, especially compared to said TN :p
 
(cf)Eclipse said:
awesome viewing angles, especially compared to said TN :p
Click to expand...

Agreed about the rest of what you say, but I think that TN panels have improved greatly with respect to viewing angles. Having both in front of me, the P-MVA LG L246WP doesn't seem to have that much (if any) better viewing angles than the TN Samsung 205BW.

On the other hand though, color reproduction is indeed 100 times better. For example. no matter what I do, I can't get the 205BW to reproduce a true white, even at 100% brightness. It's always got a yellowish cast, or a blueish cast if you take down the yellow too much. On the L246WP though, true white is a piece of cake with just a little bit of calibration, even at only 60% brightness. Agreed also about how nifty it is to be able to pivot; it's nice to be able to use portrait mode while reading forums or PDFs, editing documents, etc... No discernible lag or ghosting here either, just like on the 205BW.
 
farfromhome said:
Agreed about the rest of what you say, but I think that TN panels have improved greatly with respect to viewing angles. Having both in front of me, the P-MVA LG L246WP doesn't seem to have that much (if any) better viewing angles than the TN Samsung 205BW.

On the other hand though, color reproduction is indeed 100 times better. For example. no matter what I do, I can't get the 205BW to reproduce a true white, even at 100% brightness. It's always got a yellowish cast, or a blueish cast if you take down the yellow too much. On the L246WP though, true white is a piece of cake with just a little bit of calibration, even at only 60% brightness. Agreed also about how nifty it is to be able to pivot; it's nice to be able to use portrait mode while reading forums or PDFs, editing documents, etc... No discernible lag or ghosting here either, just like on the 205BW.
Click to expand...

they definitely have improved a lot, to the point where 24" TN displays don't look bad when viewing them at normal angles.. however, the comparison display that i am using is almost 5 years old now, and compared to the MVA, a side by side comparison with the newer TNs showed how much better the MVA really is ;)

honestly, i'm surprised that i don't hear more about the L246WP around here. it really is an awesome all around monitor. probably has something to do with how hard it is to get ahold of now.


just remember, no matter what monitor you get, you're gonna have to tweak the settings a bit, since they all come SUPER DUPER BRIGHT out of the box :(
 
(cf)Eclipse said:
honestly, i'm surprised that i don't hear more about the L246WP around here. it really is an awesome all around monitor. probably has something to do with how hard it is to get ahold of now.
Click to expand...

Which is probably exactly why we'll hear more about it around these parts now; hard to beat being able to get such a quality VA 24" monitor for around $300. :D You have to have gotten to it a lot earlier or be very lucky though; I didn't hear about it until it was almost too late, and managed to snag the very very last one the local CC had: the one they were actually using as a work monitor. :eek:
 
(cf)Eclipse said:
2. you should be able to lock the height and pivot adjustments
Click to expand...

Isn't there supposed to be a pin that locks the height adjustment? My L246WP was a display model and did not have the pin. Just wondering if I should call LG to get the pin, if it locks the height.
 
i bought the last one at my local BB, the display model as well.

as for the pin, it locks the height adjustment into the fully down position afaict, nothing more.
 
(cf)Eclipse said:
i bought the last one at my local BB, the display model as well.

as for the pin, it locks the height adjustment into the fully down position afaict, nothing more.
Click to expand...

Thanks. I guess then it would only be useful if you were moving the monitor to another location.
Congrats on getting the L246WP :) I took back 2 TN panels before I was lucky enough to score one. Much, much better than the previous ones I had.
 
tsuehpsyde said:
Me and Mark love our 246WPs. :)

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1286656
Click to expand...

Same with me and others with our 245WP(same as 246).

Only negative with these monitors (as in designed, not a blue moon defect) is the lack of inputs; only HDMI for digital, VGA and component. Still I'd rather have a nice picture any day rather than a million inputs on a screen with color, lag or whatever issues -cough- 2408wfp
 
Sigh, I decided the buy the LG way too late. It's one of the few VA's with low lag AND the least problems. Oh and it has component. The DoubleSight would be perfect if it had component input, but alas, like most LCDs, all it has is DVI/VGA. If there's one thing Dell has right it's providing a sensible amount of inputs.

Now that the LG is hard to find, and the DS lacks inputs, I need to go out and find a suitable VGA box - and good luck saving money there.
 
I love my LG246 as well. I love the button layout and the less than obnoxious writing.
 
I bought the BenQ W2400P or whatever the model is, and it has gotten great reviews from other owners. Suppose to be a great gaming LCD. Once I actually receive it, I'll let you know.

Edit: BenQ G2400W Reviews
 
Everyone is different. And just because someone got a bad one does not mean you will. Sometimes you just have to buy it and try it. Like I wasnt going to get the Samsung 245t because of everthing I read here. But I did and man am I glad I did. No blacklite bleeding at all, no buzzing blah blah. Its like you put up with something bad about a monitor but not this one so I think I will hold on to it.
 
I'll be honest in that, I was apprehensive about my purchase since it had 8ms response as opposed to the 2ms response times listed (probably as marketing jargon mainly, but with some truth) on the TN panels, figuring this would be all blurry during games and what not. I will say that I was happily surprised to see how crisp the image was, even at 8ms.

Also, don't take the display image in the store for it's word. The L246WP looked like garbage on the store floor as it was stretched 1280x1024 @ 60HZ and looked like total ass. Getting it home and slamming a full res on it, and it's beautiful. Really, you just have to bite the bullet and try out a monitor you think you'll like.
 
Tweeed said:
Everyone is different. And just because someone got a bad one does not mean you will. Sometimes you just have to buy it and try it. Like I wasnt going to get the Samsung 245t because of everthing I read here. But I did and man am I glad I did. No blacklite bleeding at all, no buzzing blah blah. Its like you put up with something bad about a monitor but not this one so I think I will hold on to it.
Click to expand...

QFT. A great way to test out different LCDs is to shop at tigerdirect.com. They have a great return policy on most displays. And for extra insurance, you can get an Assurzs policy for $13 extra (thats what I paid on my $399 BenQ). It gives you a 90 day test run period and if you aren't satisfied with the display for whatever reason, you return it to them and get a complete refund, no questions ask. It's really cool and a great piece of mind.
 
still using the DELL 2405 and itching for an upgrade.

i only have one major concern - INPUT LAG.

and it doesnt appear to be getting addressed seriously by anyone.

they all talk that same marketing BS with their reduced processing yada yada techniques but poop results.

(and no i dont want a TN panel)
 
What's the difference between the LG 246WP and the 246WH?
 
WP is an MVA panel
WH is TN

there may be differences aside from this, but that's the major one ;)
 
tsuehpsyde said:
Also, don't take the display image in the store for it's word. The L246WP looked like garbage on the store floor as it was stretched 1280x1024 @ 60HZ and looked like total ass. Getting it home and slamming a full res on it, and it's beautiful. Really, you just have to bite the bullet and try out a monitor you think you'll like.
Click to expand...

Seconded. The one in the store I went to (that I ended up getting) was connected to a company computer (as I said, it was a work model, not a display model) via very crappy component cables and set to very low brightness and weird color settings again at some lower resolution. Thankfully, they hooked it up via VGA cables to a customer's computer (in for repair) before I committed to buying it so I could see that the monitor really was OK. ;)
 
ben chi(f4) said:
So, I've been reading the Display forum for a while and have gone back and forth through all the 24" monitors that people have posted on here (since I'm in the market to buy one) and I've come to one conclusion. Everyone seems to have a bad review on the monitors they have and either they have sent them back, or bleed to much, or don't have the right gamma settings, or they are too green...
I've read the review for the 2408 and now I'm leaning on not getting that monitor...
I've read the review for the Westy L2410NM and people say they don't like it...
I guess what I'm trying to get to is... which monitor would be best for gaming and some Photoshop use and I could run my monitor to HD from my Video Card?
Click to expand...

Look at this Buyer's Guide. Very helpful.
Stop at "V. Recommendations", choose what is most important for you.
Note what monitors are listed in many nominations.

Obviously the NEC 2490 is the top all-rounder in 24". With the sum of its qualities it surpasses many larger monitors.

But this is the only 24" monitor that utilizes H-IPS panel. If $1000+ for 24" monitor is too much for you - you'll have to lower your requirements as all the rest are *VA/TN models.
Fortunately your requirements are not too high as you put gaming in the first place. Read Buyer's Guide and don't limit yourself to 24".
By the way, the Dell 2408 is a modern mainstream monitor for 24" *VA class. It's a good monitor. I would put it after better equipped but terribly overpriced 24" PVA Eizo.
The only real drawback about the Dell 2408 (that cannot be corrected by adequate user) is input lag - 1 frame more than typical for 24" (2 frames). But this may be a problem for fast pace gamers only, though.
 
I'm looking for an inexpensive monitor in the 24" variety for everyday computing tasks. Would be nice to have to web-browsers open at the same time on the same screen, etc. I seen no mention of the Dell E248WFP 24-inch Widescreen in this thread, or many other threads for that matter. Is this because I shouldn't even consider it? If so, why? I mean I know you get what you pay for and all, but for like stock market charts, spreadsheets, and normal computing would it be OK or is there some reason to totally avoid the E248WFP 24-inch Dell?

Edit: OK, I see that its a TN panel. My bad for not seeing that before I posted.
 
I really think people ought to try out some of the newer TN panel LCDs before immediately denouncing them. The newer BenQ TN panel LCDs are actually extremely nice, or so I've read. I'll soon have my own first impressions this Monday.
 
TheGooch69 said:
I really think people ought to try out some of the newer TN panel LCDs before immediately denouncing them.
Click to expand...

i did. in my quest for a new monitor, i looked (read: used in person on some friends' computers) at a bunch of 22" monitors and a single 24" monitor, and it solidified my opinion that TN is inferior for my purposes. viewing angles are critical when using your monitor as a TV with multiple people, and the color reproduction, specifically the lack of color banding, which i am relatively sensitive to, really turned me towards the PVA and MVA panels. IPS was just too expensive for my budget :p
 
(cf)Eclipse said:
i did. in my quest for a new monitor, i looked (read: used in person on some friends' computers) at a bunch of 22" monitors and a single 24" monitor, and it solidified my opinion that TN is inferior for my purposes. viewing angles are critical when using your monitor as a TV with multiple people, and the color reproduction, specifically the lack of color banding, which i am relatively sensitive to, really turned me towards the PVA and MVA panels. IPS was just too expensive for my budget :p
Click to expand...

I guess viewing angle won't play a factor for me since I will always viewing it at a direct front angle.
 
pretty much if you are not a hardcore gamer then there is no point getting a TN panel. Unless maybe money restrictions
 
Or perhaps space restrictions these days. Non-TN panels seem to be becoming an endangered species at 24" now, unless you go for the ultra-expensive and outdated Apple models or even more expensive but not as outdated NEC models. There are still some VA's left at that size, but they seem to be going one by one (which is great for snagging one at a good price while they still exist albeit). At smaller sizes, there really aren't that many non-TN's left even now.
 
No complaints with my Westy L2410NM, especially considering I walked home with it for $345 out the door. If I had paid full price, I might not be as enthusiastic, but I feel like I did get a lot of bang for the buck at the price I paid.
 
farfromhome said:
Non-TN panels seem to be becoming an endangered species at 24" now, unless you go for the ultra-expensive and outdated Apple models or even more expensive but not as outdated NEC models. There are still some VA's left at that size, but they seem to be going one by one.
Click to expand...

You bring up an interesting point on older 24" models. I wonder how well a Samsung 244t would perform compared to the newer 245t? Also, if going for a slightly smaller model, what do y'all think about the older 213t or 214t models?
 
ben chi(f4) said:
So, I've been reading the Display forum for a while and have gone back and forth through all the 24" monitors that people have posted on here (since I'm in the market to buy one) and I've come to one conclusion. Everyone seems to have a bad review on the monitors they have and either they have sent them back, or bleed to much, or don't have the right gamma settings, or they are too green...

I've read the review for the 2408 and now I'm leaning on not getting that monitor...
I've read the review for the Westy L2410NM and people say they don't like it...

I guess what I'm trying to get to is... which monitor would be best for gaming and some Photoshop use and I could run my monitor to HD from my Video Card?
Click to expand...

NEC 2490WUXi. Best 24" on the market. Incredible image quality and great for gaming. Only drawback is the pricetag of $1100.
 
TheGooch69 said:
please explain.
Click to expand...

The two advantages of TN panels are price and fast response time. Price is obvious since you can get a 22" for under $300, and response time is self explanatory for fast gaming (it is close to CRT response time). That said, newer MVA and IPS panels also have excellent response times. I can rail in Quake 3 just as well as I did on my old CRT on my new IPS.

The disadvantages are color dithering and banding due to only displaying 6-bit color (it needs to interpolate all the colors that it cannot display, resulting in dithering). It also has very narrow viewing angles, not just horizontally but vertically as well. Even if you are centered on the screen the level will look uneven from top to bottom. Illumination also tends to be more uneven than on other panel types.

So basically if gaming is not a priority and you want to work with images, TN panels are out of the question. And again, response times on newer MVA and IPS panels are excellent now and TNs have even less of an advantage there. All that said, if your budget is limited and cost is a factor then TN panels would be the way to go.
 
Gravestone Doji said:
Regarding the 214t, hard to tell if you're being sarcastic or you actually feel that the 214t is a decent monitor for office type applications?
Click to expand...

Yes, I am a bit sarcastic when 213/214 are mentioned as a possible alternative for a modern 24".
But in fact they used to be good office monitors of their time when wide screen 24" did not exist.
Now I would not consider any 4:3 for anything.
I use a 24" 1920x1200 monitor for my office work and it's perfect.

As for old 24"PVA vs new 24"PVA for office use, I would definitely choose newer ones. Old PVAs had excessive and poorly regulated brigtness. Newer ones have lower brightness and higher contrast ratio. The Dell 2407-HC (or even a fancy 2408) is a good choice.
 
Serpico said:
The two advantages of TN panels are price and fast response time. Price is obvious since you can get a 22" for under $300, and response time is self explanatory for fast gaming (it is close to CRT response time). That said, newer MVA and IPS panels also have excellent response times. I can rail in Quake 3 just as well as I did on my old CRT on my new IPS.

The disadvantages are color dithering and banding due to only displaying 6-bit color (it needs to interpolate all the colors that it cannot display, resulting in dithering). It also has very narrow viewing angles, not just horizontally but vertically as well. Even if you are centered on the screen the level will look uneven from top to bottom. Illumination also tends to be more uneven than on other panel types.

So basically if gaming is not a priority and you want to work with images, TN panels are out of the question. And again, response times on newer MVA and IPS panels are excellent now and TNs have even less of an advantage there. All that said, if your budget is limited and cost is a factor then TN panels would be the way to go.
Click to expand...

An excellent short explanation. I will save it for references.
 
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