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Ergonomic mouse

C

Cheffy

Limp Gawd
Joined
Jun 18, 2008
Messages
188
I have been having on and off wrist and forearm pain and numbness and spams in my hand associated with mouse usage for the last few years. I use my computer a lot, some gaming but mostly web browsing, word processing, and map production. I bought a logitech trackman a year ago with the thumb activated trackball. It really helped, although I definitely still get pain with extended usage. In some ways I prefer the feel to a mouse, but i'd like to get a mouse too, especially now that I want to start gaming a bit more. I was looking at a couple of different models:

http://www.evoluent.com/vm3.html
http://www.evoluent.com/user_reviews.htm

This mouse, the Evoluent vertical mouse, looks to be a perfect ergonomic fit. It fits the natural form of the hand and arm at rest. They have a ton of great endorsement statements on their site, but reviews on retail websites are not quite as resounding, although still good.

Another one I'm considering is this:

http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/mouseandkeyboard/ProductDetails.aspx?pid=086

The microsoft laser mouse 6000. But people state that it can be hard to get used to, requires perfect posture (I can't sit in one position for long), and it seems to be less "ergonomic" than the evoluent one.

Any comments on these? Any other suggestions?
 
FWIW, I've had most luck in minimizing problems by focussing on my forearm and wrist support and less on the mouse. With my wrist supported off the desk, most problems have gone.

I do use a couple of Logitech asymmetric mice - an older Mouseman Wheel (wired) and an MX620 (wireless).
 
I forgot my trackball at work on the weekend and was stuck using my logitech mx400 mouse. I put it on a flat rectangular board and used it on an angle (about 25-30°) which helped somewhat. So I'm thinking that the mouse that preserves a natural angle on my arm will help. I've tried using a gel wrist pad but it not only didn't help but may have aggravated it even more. My wrist sure didn't like the pressure on it.
 
Well, I found a great price for the evoluent mouse online, and I placed an order. I will let others here know how it works out when it arrives, hopefully before the weekend.
 
This mouse is pretty darn good. I used it extensively this past weekend, probably 12+ hours per day mostly gaming, and while some stiffness was evident there was no pain or strained feeling. Today I am using my logitech thumb trackball at work and within minutes I feel the strain on my wrist/lower forearm.

There are three main buttons on the right side and the trackball can be used as a button too. There is another thin button for the thumb on the left. I find the third main button on the right a bit too easy to press, but other than that it did not take much getting used to.

This is not a miracle product, but not far from it if you suffer from wrist pain due to mouse usage. I highly recommend it. I bought it from directcanada.com, and it arrived within 24 hours using air delivery (which is currently on special for only $10). Total price with tax and delivery was $62 CDN, well worth the price.
 
I also have the same pains, but when I do not rest my arm on table and use the scroll button the pain is minimal.
 
I would highly recommend the Evoluent mouse- I too own one. After swapping out my keyboard for a Microsoft ergo 4000, I was still experiencing the pain you describe. A friend of mine who works at Amazon said that everyone there got a vertical mouse- I figured if it was good enough for them, it was for me, so I dropped $60- this after several other 'ergo' mice including a fairly expensive logitech wireless laser mouse. When you first get the mouse, you'll hate it. It feels weird. Playing games is difficult as is simply using the darn thing- after a week or so, you'll get a lot better (I think it's because you use different muscles to move the mouse, so you need to redevelop that muscle memory). Today I can play TF2, SC, etc just as well as I could with my logitech mouse.

Long story short- I went from wearing two wrist braces, numb hands, pain, and wondering about my future career as a programmer to being symptom free. I kid you not. All this time, it wasn't the keyboard, it was the stupid mouse. Guys, if you are having ANY problem with your hands/arms, PLEASE listen to your body and fix whatever ergonomic problem you have- you only come with one set of hands- Don't wait until you're wondering if you have nerve damage.
 
I bought one of the Microsoft ergo mice (wireless laser mouse 6000) to replace my dying Logi MX1000. The large size is nice, and while it does make precision photoshopping a touch more tedious it's comfortable for extended sessions. What I noticed was that I already rotated my hand to match the ergo style of the new mouse anyway. The largest benefit was that the bigger mouse meant I could put a wrist support (gel) on the desk and not have any wrist bending whatsoever. It's the gel cushion that, IMO (and I have used it through three mice) that makes the largest difference by far. Move heaven and earth to find one if you don't have one now and have pain.

Meanwhile, I'm hating my MS 4000 keyboard, since even after 2 years I can't quite hit the keys right on the concave innards. My favorite is still the MS Natural Keyboard Pro because it's just right with key feedback and ease of reaching all keys. If only they rereleased it in black with USB 2.0 ports... *squeal*.

So.. about the MS 6000. The range is short, beyond about a half meter (non line-of-sight) it gets wonky. Otherwise, it's fine. It runs on two AA's and I've only changed them out once, so battery life has to be at least 3-4 months of daily, constant use (a far cry from my tired MX1000 which has to be recharged now every other day, that is if the charger cradle actually works).

I think the biggest issue with the MS mouse aside from the fact that it forces you to cup the mouse aside from unconsciously pressing into it like a 14 year old playing TF2, is that it tracks weird. If you move the mouse horizontally, the cursor on screen moves diagonally. This was so odd I whipped out a ruler just to make sure it was moving in a straight line on the desk. But you get used to it, and I think it's intentional to reduce wrist movement (the MX1000 did the same thing to a very, very lesser degree).

Honestly, it makes a fine gaming mouse also. No, it's not some 1000 samples per second beast, but whatever, I don't play games competitively.

Anyway between both the ergo KBs and the wrist rest all pain is gone. What I do get and am developing, oddly enough, is arthritis from the stupid mouse wheels. They need to have an acceleration feature and be free-spinning, like the old Kensington trackballs. That would require both a driver hack and some changes in the wheel messaging/API though, I know.

Make sure that at night you aren't unconsciously doing something to jam your wrist and arm. I did, and "training" myself with a brace so I didn't bend and compress the nerves there helped daytime pain and tingling a great deal also.

I didn't even know they still made those Logi thumb-ball mice. I used to swear by them 10 years ago, now I wouldn't touch one with a pole given wireless laser mice. I recall the thumb-balls would always get gunked up, and photoshopping was an exercise in (literal muscle) pain.

Edit: I notice now that I don't even move my arm OR hand with the 6000. I just move my fingers. If you're not doing that too, check your mouse sensitivity and acceleration settings.
 
For those with wrist and forearm pain why not buy a pair of hand strengtheners and solve the issue altogether?
 
tisb0b said:
For those with wrist and forearm pain why not buy a pair of hand strengtheners and solve the issue altogether?
Click to expand...

:rolleyes:

Probably because any sort of treatment or therapy doesn't help until you solve the problem that caused the injury in the first place.
 
It's all about posture man. Trust me. I do CAD for 8 hours everyday and when I get home from work, I browse the net for like 2 hours. Never had wrist pains ever. Make sure your table is about 2 inches lower than your elbows when your hands are on the keyboard/mouse. Adjust your monitor so the top is at eye level. Tilt the monitor so you can read what on the display without tilting your head down. Get a comfortable chair and sit up straight.

I set up my mom's computer like this (she has carpal tunnel syndrome) and she said it made a big difference.
 
i have an evoluent mouse... at work it helped my wrist pain go away for about 3 months but its creeping back now... kind of adapating to the vertical position itself... it hurts now where the wrist hits the table.

any good ideas for getting the wrist off the table?

our desks are level with our chairs so our entire arms must be on the table, not ergonomic at all
 
those make my wrists and finger tips numb. i wish i started with one...

after falling drunken skiing and shoulder surgery its all gone down hill... sitting at a desk as slowly spread the pain from my fingers, to wrist, to elbow, to back
 
As a right hander that gets significant wrist pain with very minimal computer use at the ripe age of 24 due to living in front of a monitor since age 10 or so, I can say that at work I use this on the LEFT hand:

Kensington Trackball

For the first week or so it was a bit awkward but in no time it just becomes second nature. I've been using it for a year and a half or so and once you adjust, it feels completely natural and actually extremely precise as well. That said I'm thinking about getting one at home as well. Only thing I'd be unsure of is fast reflex FPS/etc type games, never tried it.
 
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If you are getting wrist pains try this, move your chair out from your desk and hold your arms to the side of your body with your forearms out parallel to the floor. If your hands are below the mouse/keyboard then raise your chair up, if they are above then lower your chair down. This right here will fix the majority of your pain problems the correct way, gel pads and the like are junk.

Ergo keyboards are meh, I have a MS Ergo wireless that I use on my PS3 and I like it but really if they wanted to make keyboards more ergo friendly they would just split the thing and add about 6-10" of space in the center so your arms are strait out.
 
I have tried many things, adjusted my posture, gel rests, raising/lowering my chair, thumb trackball, etc. The trackball made the biggest difference of these, but I was still getting lots of numbness and even some pain. The switch to the Evoluent mouse was a night and day difference. I still get a little stiff after extended gaming sessions, but not numbness or pain anymore. The keyboard makes little difference for me, but I don't type all day long.
I tried using the gel pad (even two) to accompany the evoluent, but found it actually started causing problems. When I switched back to simply resting my forearm on the desk (my wrist does not make contact with the table like this) it was fine again. If I put a gel pad directly under my wrist, it causes numbness and pain.
 
I'm not sure if you would call it egronomical, butI just invested in a mx518 for use at home and have found it 1000x more comfortable than the old "ambidextrous" style mice. If you're coming from a simliar mouse and looking for something even better, than forget my reply at all haha. I did notice less wrist and arm strain over lengthed periods when using the 518...higher DPI rates also require less overall movement...just a suggestion that may be worth considering!

good luck!
 
This is one of those things that can be different for everyone.

I personally have been using a Microsoft Trackball Explorer at home for ~5 years now and I find it better than a mouse for general every day surfing and windows navigation. It helps to support my hand etc. I switched to using a Logitech MX510 for a while when I got it on sale and I found that I experienced numbness in my wrist after a week of use. I still use the MX510 for gaming once in a while (mostly only for FPS games, the trackball works better for MMOs).

Unfortunately this trackball is no longer in production. The main thing I think with trackballs in my opinion is that the thumb trackballs probably aren't as ergonomic as the ones that let you use your fingers. I find these far more precise and comfortable to use. I haven't used the Kensington Orbital trackball before but Kensington has been in the trackball business for a very long time so I'm sure it's a good product for some.

I'm glad the original poster found a solution to address his ergonomic issues as like others said, you only have one pair of hands/wrists and you don't want to cause permanent damage because of simple ergonomic issues.
 
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