It tells you more than anything else can, except for a reference who says 'mikeblas is a good programmer'.
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Entry Level Coding Interview Tips
- Thread starter Deinos
- Start date
It tells you more than anything else can, except for a reference who says 'mikeblas is a good programmer'.
For the reasons I outlined in my previous post, a coding sample tells you far less than writing code or discussing a solution face-to-face.
A reference tells you very little unless you know the person providing the reference has worked directly with the person they're referring, is not pumping them, and is at liberty to give an honest appraisal. (Many people never give references because of liability issues.) You're further assuming the person is good at evaluating talent in the first place, and evaluates talent in the same way that you do.
A reference tells you very little unless you know the person providing the reference has worked directly with the person they're referring, is not pumping them, and is at liberty to give an honest appraisal. (Many people never give references because of liability issues.) You're further assuming the person is good at evaluating talent in the first place, and evaluates talent in the same way that you do.
There is no way to verify that what you show is actually what you've made.
I've seen people tell all sorts of lies about stuff they did and then not be able to code their way out of a paper bag during an actual coding assignment.
Zangmonkey
Supreme [H]ardness
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- Jul 6, 2005
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I've borrowed one from you during interviews: how would you go about finding the median of an enumeration of around ten trillion integers?
It's not a "trick" puzzle question and it doesn't bias a coding style. I like hearing applicants work out process, try to identify obstacles etc.
Tawnos
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I do, but only for college students who are trying to get an entry level position or an internship. Show me a student with a 3.7+ GPA, but no industry experience and no side projects to speak of, and I'll show you someone who doesn't have the drive and love of developing to be an effective long-term hire/team member. Even when I ask them what their favorite in-school project they've worked on is, or what project they wish they had more time for, or anything along those lines, the _general_ (though obviously, not always) response is a resounding "meh" - school is a means to a degree and that deserves automatic job placement.
If I see someone who not only has done a bunch of side projects or one large project (even as part of a club), but also wants to tell you about the cool mod they did to their in class project and how they're using what they learned to work on their own app or game, etc, I push hard to get that person a formal interview. To me, that shows an initiative that is really important for a new hire or intern. For an industry hire, sure, let's talk shop directly, but this thread is related to an entry level position.
KeithBraud
n00b
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- Jan 17, 2013
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I am 100% agree with TESLA. I believe that her suggestions are the best for a programmer when he is preparing himself for an interview.
True - you still have to have them write code at the interview.
You can fudge a demo reel or portfolio if you're a designer, but what would any 3D modeler or animator job require? You can't just say 'I made a lot of cool stuff at my old job but I can't show you it.'
Of course you can't say that, but there are still plenty of things you can talk about and do during an interview.
For example, talk about past projects but leave out the identities of the innocent. You can go into plenty of depth on many related areas: tools used, how they were used, why certain other tools were not used, the "creative workflow" for you, your normal work hours, high-level of past projects, how you gain information on what to make, what questions you ask during the drafting process, how you demo drafts to the recipient, what feedback you take, unique challenges you've overcome, etc. etc. etc.
Another approach is to do a mock development process. Go through a sample workflow from discussion to design, and have plenty of paper and pencils nearby for the interviewee to use.
Ultimately, a good interviewer has plenty of opportunities during an in-person interview to evaluate responses on quality versus B.S., and gauge the reliability of an interviewees claims on the resume.
Please keep in mind the context of this thread. Any suggestions made regarding code samples were made with a bias towards a college graduate or near graduate applying for an entry level position.
I'm not going to expect a binder of code samples from a ten year veteran with a spouse and kids at home. But if you are fresh out of college, I do want to see some code sent my way, especially if it is code written specifically for the interview.
I do not see this as unfair. If you are fresh out of college and applying for your first position, I would expect you to be doing as much clean coding as you can. Even if the code sample does nothing to impress me, you're still keeping yourself sharp.
Also, I have never held a candidate's lack of code samples against them. Nor have I been particularly harsh in judging code samples against a candidate (unless I specifically asked for a particular sample, in-person or otherwise). But I have had candidates help themselves by offering code samples (or inquiring about what to write for a code sample), especially when on the fence about them after the phone interview.
To summarize, code samples are something you should be doing anyway if you are fresh out of college. And I see code samples as something that should only help you, so why not offer them forward?
And if a candidate offers up a sample that is not hers or his? Well, that can only hurt the candidate in the long run. It sucks for the potential employer, sure, but every time you bring a candidate in for an in-person interview you are taking on risk. And aside from having a code sample in hand as supplementary material, there really is not going to be anything different about the in-person interview. Having such a sample does not mean that a good interviewer is going to take you at face value and neglect any in-person coding.
Also, it is risky for a candidate to fake a code sample. Interviewers, obviously, have the Internet too, and one can often tell whether candidates are being genuine or not after speaking to them about the code.
All this being said, however, there are many different styles of interviewing (and interviewers for that matter), and honestly, I am still not sure which is the correct approach as all candidates react differently to different styles as well.
I'm not going to expect a binder of code samples from a ten year veteran with a spouse and kids at home. But if you are fresh out of college, I do want to see some code sent my way, especially if it is code written specifically for the interview.
I do not see this as unfair. If you are fresh out of college and applying for your first position, I would expect you to be doing as much clean coding as you can. Even if the code sample does nothing to impress me, you're still keeping yourself sharp.
Also, I have never held a candidate's lack of code samples against them. Nor have I been particularly harsh in judging code samples against a candidate (unless I specifically asked for a particular sample, in-person or otherwise). But I have had candidates help themselves by offering code samples (or inquiring about what to write for a code sample), especially when on the fence about them after the phone interview.
To summarize, code samples are something you should be doing anyway if you are fresh out of college. And I see code samples as something that should only help you, so why not offer them forward?
And if a candidate offers up a sample that is not hers or his? Well, that can only hurt the candidate in the long run. It sucks for the potential employer, sure, but every time you bring a candidate in for an in-person interview you are taking on risk. And aside from having a code sample in hand as supplementary material, there really is not going to be anything different about the in-person interview. Having such a sample does not mean that a good interviewer is going to take you at face value and neglect any in-person coding.
Also, it is risky for a candidate to fake a code sample. Interviewers, obviously, have the Internet too, and one can often tell whether candidates are being genuine or not after speaking to them about the code.
All this being said, however, there are many different styles of interviewing (and interviewers for that matter), and honestly, I am still not sure which is the correct approach as all candidates react differently to different styles as well.
I had a hiring manager tell me the following:
1. Review your primary language (Java/C++/Ruby on Rails)
2. Review Data Structures and Algorithms. Know the Big-0 and basic algorithms
3. Review SQL. Have a basic understanding.
4. Review your front end language (Javascript/HTML)
The biggest point about interviewing is just being able to have a conversation with the people you are working with. Others have hit that point and I agree 100%.
I had one interview where I flopped due to answering questions with one word. My friend told me exactly what I did wrong. Expect to fail at least once and do not let it bother you too much. Learn from your failures. I interviewed with another company and got the job immediately. I did not have to do any coding for the job, but I offered to submit my code to them. I also openly told my technical boss what I did wrong and how I would improve my code.
A second point I would stress is to do real life social networking. Talk to people in the industry, talk to friends who work in the industry. Many times, you will land an interviewer faster by knowing someone at the company rather than submitting online. All of my interviews have been due to knowing someone. I was talking to a friend of mine on Sunday evening about applying to where he works, he told me as long as you can show that you can do the work/can learn the requirements do not mean anything.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/hiring-friend-prospect-indeed-021603740.html
The above article is a reprint from the NY Times, I would highly recommend reading it.
1. Review your primary language (Java/C++/Ruby on Rails)
2. Review Data Structures and Algorithms. Know the Big-0 and basic algorithms
3. Review SQL. Have a basic understanding.
4. Review your front end language (Javascript/HTML)
The biggest point about interviewing is just being able to have a conversation with the people you are working with. Others have hit that point and I agree 100%.
I had one interview where I flopped due to answering questions with one word. My friend told me exactly what I did wrong. Expect to fail at least once and do not let it bother you too much. Learn from your failures. I interviewed with another company and got the job immediately. I did not have to do any coding for the job, but I offered to submit my code to them. I also openly told my technical boss what I did wrong and how I would improve my code.
A second point I would stress is to do real life social networking. Talk to people in the industry, talk to friends who work in the industry. Many times, you will land an interviewer faster by knowing someone at the company rather than submitting online. All of my interviews have been due to knowing someone. I was talking to a friend of mine on Sunday evening about applying to where he works, he told me as long as you can show that you can do the work/can learn the requirements do not mean anything.
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/hiring-friend-prospect-indeed-021603740.html
The above article is a reprint from the NY Times, I would highly recommend reading it.
Spun Ducky
Gawd
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2009
- Messages
- 750
I noticed everything is heavily focused on soon to be or recent college grads. I am curious what you guys think when it comes to a good software engineer who either has some college or none? I ask this as while I am in college even going to one of the better tech schools stat wise in the nation I feel as though I may be wasting my money.
Do people in this situation ever even get to the interview or rather do code samples/projects become the big turning point?
Do people in this situation ever even get to the interview or rather do code samples/projects become the big turning point?
First, a disclaimer:
Everything in this post is based on my personal experience and may or may not apply to you or any positions you wish to apply for.
So here's the thing. A degree does not make you a better programmer, but it does affect your hire-ability early on, along with other factors.
Factors which may affect your hire-ability:
1. It will depend on the companies you are applying to.
If your goal is to apply for a position at the trading desk of a hedge fund, well... those sorts of places tend not to touch candidates unless they come from "feeder" organizations or have 4.0 GPAs at top tier schools. Large companies may be more difficult to apply for as well since they will have a larger pool of applicants and cannot possibly screen each one, leading to somewhat imperfect but necessary resume filtering.
A small startup? Well, they may be more willing to screen everyone they come across. Or not. It depends.
2. How did you apply to the organization? Knowing someone will open many doors which may otherwise be closed to you. But online applications are impersonal, and if a company has thousands of them, then they may only screen those applicants who look best on paper. Without a degree listed, this may not be you.
3. What positions are available at said company? And what positions are you applying for? Some positions may be more open to non-degreed individuals than others.
4. Do you have any paid work experience? What about unpaid work experience? With enough experience, no one is going to care about where you did or did not attend school.
Speaking from my personal experience, this is how resumes are generally handled:
1. HR receives all resumes and handles all position listings.
2. HR will do a preliminary filter on all resumes received, then they will distribute resumes out to appropriate managers.
3. Managers will then do their own filtering and will pick the most appropriate candidates to phone screen.
4. Managers will keep phone screening and drawing from their stash of resumes until they have at least 2-3 strong candidates to invite for in-person interviews.
5. In-person interviews commence...
6. Etc.
If you are a candidate without a degree, you may not pass HR's initial filter. And if your resume makes it to a manager, you may be placed closer to the bottom of the resume pile that s/he draws from. Other candidates will thus get their shot at a phone interview before you. So you will likely be disadvantaged. The position may be filled before you even get a chance to interview.
Some exceptions apply, however. Firstly, if you are actively in progress towards a degree, the above does not apply. Similarly, if someone in the company vouches for you, your resume will still be passed to HR, but you will likely get past any filtering done by HR, and managers may be told that you are a vouched-for candidate, almost guaranteeing you a chance at a phone interview. Lastly, once you have work experience, the degree becomes far less important, and will eventually disappear from consideration entirely.
My overall feeling? Once you get to the phone screening stage your degree or lack there of will fade away. Interviewers may question why you are not degreed, and you should have an answer for them. But you will not be turned down based solely on the fact that you are not degreed once you reach this point in the process.
Everything in this post is based on my personal experience and may or may not apply to you or any positions you wish to apply for.
So here's the thing. A degree does not make you a better programmer, but it does affect your hire-ability early on, along with other factors.
Factors which may affect your hire-ability:
1. It will depend on the companies you are applying to.
If your goal is to apply for a position at the trading desk of a hedge fund, well... those sorts of places tend not to touch candidates unless they come from "feeder" organizations or have 4.0 GPAs at top tier schools. Large companies may be more difficult to apply for as well since they will have a larger pool of applicants and cannot possibly screen each one, leading to somewhat imperfect but necessary resume filtering.
A small startup? Well, they may be more willing to screen everyone they come across. Or not. It depends.
2. How did you apply to the organization? Knowing someone will open many doors which may otherwise be closed to you. But online applications are impersonal, and if a company has thousands of them, then they may only screen those applicants who look best on paper. Without a degree listed, this may not be you.
3. What positions are available at said company? And what positions are you applying for? Some positions may be more open to non-degreed individuals than others.
4. Do you have any paid work experience? What about unpaid work experience? With enough experience, no one is going to care about where you did or did not attend school.
Speaking from my personal experience, this is how resumes are generally handled:
1. HR receives all resumes and handles all position listings.
2. HR will do a preliminary filter on all resumes received, then they will distribute resumes out to appropriate managers.
3. Managers will then do their own filtering and will pick the most appropriate candidates to phone screen.
4. Managers will keep phone screening and drawing from their stash of resumes until they have at least 2-3 strong candidates to invite for in-person interviews.
5. In-person interviews commence...
6. Etc.
If you are a candidate without a degree, you may not pass HR's initial filter. And if your resume makes it to a manager, you may be placed closer to the bottom of the resume pile that s/he draws from. Other candidates will thus get their shot at a phone interview before you. So you will likely be disadvantaged. The position may be filled before you even get a chance to interview.
Some exceptions apply, however. Firstly, if you are actively in progress towards a degree, the above does not apply. Similarly, if someone in the company vouches for you, your resume will still be passed to HR, but you will likely get past any filtering done by HR, and managers may be told that you are a vouched-for candidate, almost guaranteeing you a chance at a phone interview. Lastly, once you have work experience, the degree becomes far less important, and will eventually disappear from consideration entirely.
My overall feeling? Once you get to the phone screening stage your degree or lack there of will fade away. Interviewers may question why you are not degreed, and you should have an answer for them. But you will not be turned down based solely on the fact that you are not degreed once you reach this point in the process.
Let your code do the talking. Get your stuff on Git and show it to the world.
Know basic algorithms, design patterns, modularization strategies.
Test yourself. Assign yourself problems. Complete them in 1 hr.
Practice interviews focusing on calm, smooth responses. This will project confidence.
Good luck.
Know basic algorithms, design patterns, modularization strategies.
Test yourself. Assign yourself problems. Complete them in 1 hr.
Practice interviews focusing on calm, smooth responses. This will project confidence.
Good luck.
I understand what you said -- I just don't agree. If you were to show me something and claimed you made it, I wouldn't learn anything about your programming skills until I verified that you really did make it, that you understood the tradeoffs you faced when making it, and understood your reasoning for making it in the first place. That process takes time... and still isn't as accurate as other methods that might not even take as much time.
vsboxerboy
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2005
- Messages
- 3,661
I think my recruiter forgot something here..
Interview is tonight
OP - keep applying to places and good luck!
Interview is tonight
OP - keep applying to places and good luck!
You could use that e-mail slip up as an ice breaker. Maybe say if you were hired and were in charge of creating their customer relation apps you would have had checks in place to make sure certain tags didn't exist when it came time to publish the e-mail.
I could see that going south too. I guess it depends on how well you know the person you are meeting with. If they copied and pasted an e-mail and it is their direct fault, you probably don't want to call out their stupidity/failure.
LOL ...
vsboxerboy
2[H]4U
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2005
- Messages
- 3,661
So OP, as a recap my phone interviews, both were more or less the same just with slightly different questions:
- tell me a bit about yourself
> we went over my resume, projects, work, etc
- what language are you most familiar with
- a bunch of questions about that language
> why is C++ different from Java
> explain stack vs heap
> what do some of the function / variable modifiers mean and do
> some questions about multithreaded
- some questions about data structures
> Queue vs stack
> How could you make a queue out of one or more stacks?
> What's a binary tree
> Balanced vs unbalanced
- some algorithm questions
> How would you get the median of a binary tree
> Write (live code) a function to deep copy a binary tree
- some more small talk questions to round out 45 minutes
- what questions do you have for me
- end
- tell me a bit about yourself
> we went over my resume, projects, work, etc
- what language are you most familiar with
- a bunch of questions about that language
> why is C++ different from Java
> explain stack vs heap
> what do some of the function / variable modifiers mean and do
> some questions about multithreaded
- some questions about data structures
> Queue vs stack
> How could you make a queue out of one or more stacks?
> What's a binary tree
> Balanced vs unbalanced
- some algorithm questions
> How would you get the median of a binary tree
> Write (live code) a function to deep copy a binary tree
- some more small talk questions to round out 45 minutes
- what questions do you have for me
- end
It's possible to word such a thing in a half joking way. You don't have to come right out and tell them it sucks.