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Enough Power?

T

Tiny

Supreme [H]ardness
Joined
Oct 31, 2003
Messages
6,346
I was wondering if this would run the following at stock speeds with no problems:

Biostar M7NCG 400 mATX
AMD3000+
DDR400 512mb x2
ATI 9800pro 128mb
WD 80GB 7200rpm 8mb
WD 120GB 7200rpm 8mb

Right now I have a Pioneer DVD burner and a Plextor Premium....thinking of going with the Plextor DVD burner, but probably won't til DL media prices drop. Also I have a SB Live in the PCI slot, but I may dump it and just use the onboard sound.

So can that powersupply run all that without any problems? Or can I get the Antec 300w powersupply that is found in the Aria case somewhere? I am planning my home built case right now and it would make things easier if I could use it. Also...I will have to use the mobo tray out of my Kingwin case if I can't find a mATX case with one that I could buy and rip out. *sigh*

Comments, questions, suggestions....all welcome.
 
Yes it can, because my shuttle is running all that on less wattage..But why not get a 350-380 antec???
 
darktiger said:
Yes it can, because my shuttle is running all that on less wattage..But why not get a 350-380 antec???
Click to expand...

Are those the mATX style like the Biostar I linked to?
 
I am retarded....been a member here since Oct. '03 and just now saw the Powersupply forum.

:rolleyes:

Let's see if I can get this moved.
 
moved!!!


anyone else offer some suggestions...or a place to find the Antec's mentioned?
 
Definitely go with at least a 350w Search newegg.com for a good PSu with the specs lsited matching your results. I would probally go with an Antec. OCZ, Enermax, Forton/Sparkle are also good brands. I don't think OCz has a model around 250w though. I think they ahve a 420w or something though, but you don't need soemthing like that, but 350w would eb good for a bit of headroom.
 
KoolDrew said:
Definitely go with at least a 350w Search newegg.com for a good PSu with the specs lsited matching your results. I would probally go with an Antec. OCZ, Enermax, Forton/Sparkle are also good brands. I don't think OCz has a model around 250w though. I think they ahve a 420w or something though, but you don't need soemthing like that, but 350w would eb good for a bit of headroom.
Click to expand...


Trouble is finding one at that rating in the mATX formfactor....I haven't been able to yet....and I am worried that I won't.

I could use my Thermaltake Purepower dual fan 420W that I am using now....but if I could get one that high in a mATX formfactor, that would be ideal.
 
That Shuttle PSU didn't really have any specs to go by, and that thermaltake is 18a on the 12v. I'd say the Enermax VB supply.
 
2 the SFX Enermax VB with PFC
has a healthy +12V rail at 20A

your theoretical maximum draw puts you around 11A on the +12V
are you sure your board doesnt have a +12V mobo connector?
it would be a square 4 pin connector most likely
 
Many thanks for all the help guys.....I really apreciate it.

:D
 
well thats sort of lucky, and works out well in a box this small
most modern boards employ the +12V rail to power CPUs
Athlons can go either way all P3 boards are +5V to power the mobo\CPU

buy having that board powered of the +5V rail that means youve got alot more room on the +12V rail
see what happens when you alter the +12V connector on the mobo
http://takaman.jp/D/?M=PbQFQad@he@hSBSuTITgU$UcYbZAZavHE0a3AMZ&english
you jump from 10.9A up to 18A

as it is most of the +12V amps on your config are for "spinup" draw and will actually drop once the fans and drives are up to speed

DOH that supply is too weak on the +5V & +3.3V rails
as strange as this may sound, you might need a better graphics card :p
at least to use this supply, you might consider a card biased towards the +12V instead of the +5V rail
like this
http://www.xbitlabs.com/misc/picture/?src=/images/video/ati-powercons/t1.gif&1=1
http://takaman.jp/D/?M=PaQFQad@he@hSBSuTITgU$kG5@0DaH9YbZAZavHE0a3AMZ&english
drops the +5V rail to 31A and the total combined power (3.3V and +5V) to 173.7
while only bumping the +12V 2A

but thats still too high for the supply the +5V rail is 22A and thats before temperature derating, and the total combined Wattage of the +3.3V & 5V is 145Watts

none of thoses supplies seem to be the ticket

at leat at the theroretical maximum, let me workup a real world draw, some of that load draw wont coincide in the real world

give me some info on the firewire and USB devices what are they?
 
So none of those are good eh?

Well I didn't plan on upgrading my video card, but now I have an excuse!

Anyway....here are what I have plugged into the firewire and USB ports:

Logitech Rumble Pad 2 is plugged in all the time, even when not in use. I have a couple of thumbdrive type USB things that I use from time to time, but only plug them in when I need to. I only plug my camera in when I need to transfer pics to my computer. And I have yet to put anything in the firewire ports.

The following is connected to a 4-port USB hub:

Epson R300 (has it's own power cord)
HP Scanjet 3970 (has it's own power cord)

So here is a revision of my specs:

Biostar M7NCG 400
AMD 3000+
2x 512mb PC3200
80GB WD 7200RPM 8mb
120GB WD 7200RPM 8mb
Plextor Premium CDR/RW
Pioneer A07 (soon to be a Plextor DL)
9 in 1 Floppy/Card Reader
ATI Radeon 9800pro
(nothing yet in the PCI slots, took the SB LIVE! out)

will have 2 120mm fans in the case, and that is probably it for fans, might throw in a PCI slot fan.

Does that help?

I really thought I had it solved with that Enermax one. I could use a full size one, but would really like a smaller one. If I go the normal size route...what PS fits me for under $80?

I am totally lost right now. :confused:
 
OK I adjusted your theoretical maximum with the card you actually listed

http://www.xbitlabs.com/misc/picture/?src=/images/video/ati-powercons/t4.gif&1=1

http://takaman.jp/D/?M=PaQFQad@he@hSBSgTITgU$kG5@kDvHFYbZAZavHE0a3AMZ&english

putting you at
+3.3V @ 6.5A
+5V @ 32.7A
+12V @ 9.3A
combined draw on the +3.3V & +5V of 185Watts
total 308 Watts
before any temperature derating of a supply

a realworld worse case senerio draw of
CPU, RAM, mobo & GPU at 100% ......22.7A on the +5V
an Optical at full spinup draw................1.5A on the +5V
the drives spun up with a stsic draw of...0.5A on the +5V
and another amp for other devices..........1A on the +5V

so closer to 26A @ +5V realworld maximum draw down from 32A
which would bring the combined +3.3V & +5V wattage down to 151.8Watts at least

EDIT that drops an additional amp with the PCI cards gone down to 25A
with the combined a wattage down to 147 Watts
 
Thanks....but where do I go from there? Sorry I am a noob when it comes to going past the Watts label on the box. :confused:

and my current Thermaltake is on the recommend list. :confused:
 
well in the SFX form factor your pretty constrained

we got the numbers down to where it will likely run the config, but without much of a safety margin, temperature in the supply being a major concern to maintain enough capacity under a worse case senerio load, a good thermal solution (read doing a little custom ductwork) might make it fly, and a UPS will make it have to work all that much less (stable power without sags) and is a good idea in any event to protect it from surges

your building a Home Theater PC? what case?

if we can use an ATX supply there are alot of options
 
Sorry forgot to mention that I am building the case myself. It is in the planning stages right now, that is why the questions about powersupplies....I can move ahead if I know what power supply I will be using.

This will NOT be a HTPC...this will be my main system, my everyday'er.

I was thinking of positioning the PS to suck air from the outside (kind of install it sideways and make it so the air intake is in the side panel) and blow out the back. Is that dumb?

Hadn't thought of a UPS, but I guess I should since I will be moving to Brea, California before August....don't know how stable California's power supply is. :eek:

So since I am building the case myself...I guess I could use the normal ATX size, mATX would be ideal, but it looks as if they won't make anything strong enough for a while.

So, using the ATX form factor, what is a good PS for my setup?
 
well what you need and what you might want for a longer term investment could be quite different
you can easily get by with an older ATX12V v1.3 supply
a very reliable and battle proven supply being the Fortron 530 $78
http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?description=17-104-968&depa=1

a new high quality ATX12V v2.0 supply will run closer to $120
youd get even more amps on the +12V rails (now 2 rails in this spec) and it would likely work in a newer system you might get in the future) yet still have the amps on the +5V rails for backward compatibility

the mod you described is ideal, heat transfer is all about temperature differentials, by feeding the supply cooler air, more heat will be transfered for a given volume of air
review >
http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=840056
http://forums.silentpcreview.com/viewtopic.php?t=8450
 
I think I will go with that Fortron, though having the intake fan on the front, instead of the bottom, will require me to duct an intake from the top of the case instead of the side panel...it should work out better anyway.

Thanks everyone for your help and comments....especially you IceCzar, you have been a huge help....and an equally huge imparter of knowledge...thanks again. :D
 
Actually since your building your own case you are able to throw convention out the window.

I put my PSU in the bottom of the case sitting on a 1” high box with the back cut out and open to the outside back of the case. That way I suck fresh air from the outside, no PSU heat in the case at all.

The rest is a pair of 120mm rear fans running very quiet but moving lots of air out of the case.

I also like the design of the Antec Sonata and especially the Antec LanParty case. Unless you’re an avid do it yourselfer on principal give that all aluminum LAN party case a look. It’s the coolest running case I’ve used to far.

Just some added thoughts

Luck :D
 
your welcome

some more info on that supply

http://www.sparklepower.com/pdf/FSP530-60GNA.pdf
+3.3V @ 28A
+5V @ 40A
+12V @ 18A
before adjusted for temperature
FSP supplies consistently test high though, the rating temperature is likely abive the "industry norm" of 25C or they are concervative when rating the supplies

http://www.home2000.net/client/fspgroupusacom/proddetail.asp?linenumber=80
http://www.home2000.net/client/fspgroupusacom/images/FSP530-60GNA_S.pdf
http://www.cluboverclocker.com/reviews/power/fortron_source/fsp530-60gna/index.htm

great supply for the money, used one in my brother's box, all in all very comparable to yours ;)
 
I did take a look at almost every case out there and finally decided that I should just build one that I want.

I pretty much have the hardware maxed out for my board (I would just build a whole 'nother rig when I felt it time to upgrade), so the design is as custom as you can get. I have it all sitting in a Kingwin ST-424-S right now, and unless I can find a cheap'o mATX case with a removeable mobo tray, I am going to have to use the one from the Kingwin and cut it down to fit my needs.

I am having trouble envisioning the way you have your PS set up....do you have an pics? I playing around with some design ideas and will probably post them in the Casemodding forum for some feedback, but that won't be for a while....still measuring every stinkin' millimeter of every part that is going in it....a little time consuming to say the least.

I also don't plan on having ANY PS heat at all in the case, never did make sence to me when I have seen the air sucking from the inside. And the rest, much like yourself, will be a couple of 120's.

Like I said....still in the design steps and I already ahave about 30 different drawings, and I am sure I will have 100 more before I even begin to cut something....which is what I am really itchin' to do! :D
 
Reading the cluboverclockers review now......

In your opinion....how is the noise level? Will I hear it over the 120's?
 
Probably two max, one intake in the front of the case and the other exhaust from the back of the case.

I am currently trying to decide what brand, but I am currently looking at this Panaflo at the Egg.

Also I am looking into getting this HS paired with a Vantec Stealth or Panaflo fan. As the stock AMD HSF combo is just not cutting it for me.

I bought a CompUSA brand 120mm fan last night while I was there picking up some other stuff and popped it in to see what kind of noise it makes. Pretty happy with the noise level (had to hold it to my ear to hear anything), but was not happy with the perceived lack of air flow, I kind of think I may need something that moves the air a little better because my parts are going to be kind of snug in the case. The CompUSA brand fan has the rating of:
Fan Speed: Variable 1200 to 2150 RPM +/- 10%
Noise level: Variable 18-30.1dB
Airflow: Variable 43.9 to 76.4 CFM +/- 10%

I am thinking that I only heard the CompUSA brand fan at it's lowest RPM.

Looks like I have even more research to do, since I have read good things about the Panaflos, Vantec Stealths, and some other ones as well. :eek:
 
Tiny said:
more research to do,
Click to expand...


your wish is my command :p


its not just the airflow that is important, but the static pressure
an enclosure with a greater resistance will benefit from a higher static pressure

a few links :p

Air Flow Vs. Pressure Characteristics
Parallel & Series Operation
Stall of Axial Flow Fans

Basic Fan Laws
How to measure Airflow vs Pressure
How to Achieve Low Noise
Accoustic Noise
EMI
Introduction: Forced Convection Cooling
How to select the right fan or blower
Step 1: The Total Cooling Requirements
Step 2: Total System Resistance / System Characteristic Curve
Step 3: System Operating Point
 
Oh boy! :eek:

It is a good thing I love to do research (and math :eek: )....and even more so when someone is kind enough to point it all out for me and all I have to do is read it! :D

No CS:S for me tonigh!
 
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