Engadget article on Creative Labs

[CrimsonKnight13]

I'm no expert regarding sound cards & audio fidelity. Some may even argue that my sound card & headset choices are quite lacking (see signature) but articles like this make me fume.

http://www.engadget.com/2014/05/14/creative-audio-comeback

Post-PC era? I don't think the author realizes that discrete audio still sounds better than most on-board audio offerings (as far as my experience goes & what I've read from others here). I don't care much for the external audio solutions mentioned in the article either.

I know that I've only focused on some parts of the article, so I figured I'd bring this one to light. Maybe someone has a much better view of what the PC audio technology landscape actually looks like.

 

[fenixv]

Strange article. I recently bought a Sound Blaster Z and I think it sounds much better than my on-board realtek solution. Haven't had any driver issues either. All these post-pc era articles seem like click bait lately.

 

[CrimsonKnight13]

My SB Zx works great, so I don't get how the author could be so clueless to discrete audio solutions. Must be a gadget (ab)using hipster IMHO.

 

[Nenu]

Am not going to read it, but am an avid user of external DACs and there "can" be a massive difference if chosen well.
My DACs are around £1000 each, but worth every penny when your kit can expose the extra detail.

To counter this, I tried my stereo DAC (Minimax MKII / Plus) on a friends hifi and there was little point in putting it on his system compared to his current DAC (Emotiva UMC-1).
I found the UMC-1 to be a similar sound to my Auzentech Prelude soundcard.
He was using my old Mission 754 speakers (soft dome tweeters) and a Cambridge Audio Azur 540a amp, same speaker cable as me and Oxygen free copper 1/2m interconnects.
He got the message, you need the kit to make use of high end DACs.

He found that the UMC-1 was a great upgrade from his onboard sound though, so there is good value to be had if your other kit is good enough.
After lending him my rear Ribbon speakers (to use as fronts), a decent amp and my DAC, he is going to build some similar speakers this year and buy the amp off me next year.
Then he will upgrade to a high end DAC.
You should have seen the emails he sent about the sound quality lol.

 

[Venomous]

They let anyone write articles these days, whether the writer or editor has any technical background. Do you see what cheap salaries produce?

 

[Venomous]

Am not going to read it, but am an avid user of external DACs and there "can" be a massive difference if chosen well.
My DACs are around £1000 each, but worth every penny when your kit can expose the extra detail.

To counter this, I tried my stereo DAC (Minimax MKII / Plus) on a friends hifi and there was little point in putting it on his system compared to his current DAC (Emotiva UMC-1).
I found the UMC-1 to be a similar sound to my Auzentech Prelude soundcard.
He was using my old Mission 754 speakers (soft dome tweeters) and a Cambridge Audio Azur 540a amp, same speaker cable as me and Oxygen free copper 1/2m interconnects.
He got the message, you need the kit to make use of high end DACs.

He found that the UMC-1 was a great upgrade from his onboard sound though, so there is good value to be had if your other kit is good enough.
After lending him my rear Ribbon speakers (to use as fronts), a decent amp and my DAC, he is going to build some similar speakers this year and buy the amp off me next year.
Then he will upgrade to a high end DAC.
You should have seen the emails he sent about the sound quality lol.

It's your speakers, not your dac...

 

[jbltecnicspro]

Oh Creative, maker of the shittiest General MIDI devices known to man in the 90's. Most who knew better got a Roland device (even if they were expensive, they were far better). They also killed Adlib as well, because Soundblaster had digital capabilities!

No, I'm not a fan of Creative. Likely never will be.

 

[B00nie]

It's your speakers, not your dac...

My thoughts exactly. I think the American sceptics society is willing to pay 10 grand to anyone who can tell accurately two dacs (cd players) apart in a blind listening test.

Easy money to buy a high-end DAC!

 

[cyclone3d]

Oh Creative, maker of the shittiest General MIDI devices known to man in the 90's. Most who knew better got a Roland device (even if they were expensive, they were far better). They also killed Adlib as well, because Soundblaster had digital capabilities!

No, I'm not a fan of Creative. Likely never will be.

Heh, maybe the first SB cards had crappy MIDI, but they were overall way better than Adlib.

I had an Adlib, then a SB Pro 2.0, and then a generic card that had a 4MB hardware wavetable built on. It did everything the SB cards could do, and had way better MIDI.

I used that generic card for quite a few years until I went to a SB PCI-64 which it turns out was the same exact card as the SB PCI-128 except that the 128 had an ID chip in it that the drivers looked for.

A little bit of switching driver files around and I had a PCI-128. I posted about it on the Creative forums, and a few weeks later they released an "new" driver set for the 64 that made it into a 128.

Creative has done some quite shady things, but some of their cards were really good compared to what else was available at the time.

The Live!, Audigy, and X-fi cards (that used the hardware chip on them - EMU10k1 and EMU10k2) were the best cards they ever made IMO.

 

[spaceman]

Oh I get it. Yes. You must have a system that can actually allow you to be able to hear the difference. Most PC headsets will not be revealing enough to be able to hear the difference b/w a cheap dac vs a more expensive one.

Anyway, onboard still doesn't match up to a good sound card or dac.

 

[Nenu]

My thoughts exactly. I think the American sceptics society is willing to pay 10 grand to anyone who can tell accurately two dacs (cd players) apart in a blind listening test.

Easy money to buy a high-end DAC!

lol
I have 2 DACs based on the same DAC chip and its very easy to tell the difference between them.
I demo'd this exact point to a mate last week and he agrees entirely.
But you need good enough kit to be bothered by it and it looks like some people cant tell the difference any way.

Perhaps the 2 CD players they are using are too similar in character or the other kit cant expose the differences.
I much prefer my Minimax MK II for stereo music to my Oppo 105 as it exposes a lot more detail and the bass level is closer to what I prefer.
The Oppo 105 is great for surround playback and more relaxed listening to music.

 

[B00nie]

lol
I have 2 DACs based on the same DAC chip and its very easy to tell the difference between them.
I demo'd this exact point to a mate last week and he agrees entirely.
But you need good enough kit to be bothered by it and it looks like some people cant tell the difference any way.

Perhaps the 2 CD players they are using are too similar in character or the other kit cant expose the differences.
I much prefer my Minimax MK II for stereo music to my Oppo 105 as it exposes a lot more detail and the bass level is closer to what I prefer.
The Oppo 105 is great for surround playback and more relaxed listening to music.

Go earn your easy 10k then. In a blind test when you don't know which one is playing or if they're playing the same one again, if you can tell the difference 10k USD is yours.

I have a 2000 eur amp feeding active electrostatic panels. The differences between the sources are so small that it's basically a waste of money to invest to it if you own already a functional basic audio source such as a cd player. Even dumber is to buy expensive signal cables, they're total snake oil.

Amps do make a difference, especially with ESLs because they really push weak amps to their knees. The panels have a 0.5 ohm load at high frequencies so some amps just turn on the protection circuit before even playing lol. On regular boxed speakers which have an easy impedance curve even the importance of the amp is reduced. But its still bigger than a DACs role in the chain. If the dac works correctly it produces a totally flat response with really minimalistic distortion. These params get orders of magnitude worse when the signal gets to the amp and yet orders of magnitude worse when the signal is finally played out in the speaker - even if the speaker would be mind blowingly low distortion and accurate such as a large ESL panel.

 

[Nenu]

Go earn your easy 10k then. In a blind test when you don't know which one is playing or if they're playing the same one again, if you can tell the difference 10k USD is yours.

Who knows if it is possible with the kit they have.
Its certainly possible with the kit I have, they should try that test
Not all kit is the same.

 

[jbltecnicspro]

Heh, maybe the first SB cards had crappy MIDI, but they were overall way better than Adlib.

I had an Adlib, then a SB Pro 2.0, and then a generic card that had a 4MB hardware wavetable built on. It did everything the SB cards could do, and had way better MIDI.

I used that generic card for quite a few years until I went to a SB PCI-64 which it turns out was the same exact card as the SB PCI-128 except that the 128 had an ID chip in it that the drivers looked for.

A little bit of switching driver files around and I had a PCI-128. I posted about it on the Creative forums, and a few weeks later they released an "new" driver set for the 64 that made it into a 128.

Creative has done some quite shady things, but some of their cards were really good compared to what else was available at the time.

The Live!, Audigy, and X-fi cards (that used the hardware chip on them - EMU10k1 and EMU10k2) were the best cards they ever made IMO.

Well, Adlib and the wavetable synthesis were different beasts altogether. They still pale in comparison to the Roland modules though (but were priced accordingly). Agree with you on the Live!, Audigy, and X-Fi.