Endless Problems...

G

Gillette

[H]ard|Gawd
Joined
Feb 6, 2005
Messages
1,317
I've had my MacBook for about a year now (specs in sig) and have been forced to do pretty much everything in XP.

Firefox will have random load times anywhere between 3 seconds and 4 minutes while the computer is completely idle. Performance in the one game I actually play on it (World of Warcraft) is equally painful.

I've posted about this on several occasions and never once received a response that was worthy of reading apart from "reinstall OSX", which I've done. Needless to say, there was absolutely no improvement in performance in any respect whatsoever.

I remember one poster mentioning that he could get a solid 20FPS in WoW running medium settings. I just updated everything and got it all running again and averaged a whopping 4FPS in a completely deserted Area 52 (1280x800, MINIMUM SETTINGS). In Shattrath I'm getting good FPS in the bank (ranging from 20-40 with no one else) and the second I step out in the actual city it drops to roughly 7FPS with no one on the screen, again, completely minimum settings.

By contrast those numbers are, on average, doubled when doing a comparison in Windows XP.

Does anyone have any constructive input as to why I'm having so many issues?
 
MacBook has integrated graphics, if you want a better gaming experience, get a MacBook Pro w/ dedicated video card.

I had the MacBook for a year, just stepped up to the 17" MacBook Pro.
 
How so? You are complaining that an integrated video card is "not performing" for you. It's exactly that, an integrated video card. I played WoW on my macbook and it was unbearable, anything else I did on it (ran parallels for Outlook in XP), Adobe CS3, etc.. it ran faster than comparable PC laptops. I didn't check your last post on ram, but I really recommend 2GB ram in the thing, made a world of difference in apps I was running (Illustrator, Photoshop, etc..)
 
Spending $2,000+ to solve a problem that is obviously driver or extension based is a horrible solution.
 
Telling someone to buy new hardware isn't helpful.

Neither is arguing about the responses.

If you don't like them, don't respond to them.


Back on to the topic.

What Applications do you have installed?
What's running in the background?

What version of OS X is it? When you re-installed, did you do a completely FRESH install, or an archive-reinstall?

What kind of memory is in the Macbook (3rd party or preinstalled by apple?)

What is in your system logs?


We can't search for the time being so you're going to have to reiterate the steps you've tried and what's in your system.
 
kenham40 said:
How so? You are complaining that an integrated video card is "not performing" for you. It's exactly that, an integrated video card. I played WoW on my macbook and it was unbearable, anything else I did on it (ran parallels for Outlook in XP), Adobe CS3, etc.. it ran faster than comparable PC laptops. I didn't check your last post on ram, but I really recommend 2GB ram in the thing, made a world of difference in apps I was running (Illustrator, Photoshop, etc..)
Click to expand...

the OP noted that his macbook seems to run twice as fast under XP in comparison with mac os X, that is his issue

i remember reading somewhere that mac OS X apparently limits the Vram for the intel integrated graphics to 64 MB, while windows allows for up to 256 mb, you might want to double check that
 
Gillette said:
Spending $2,000+ to solve a problem that is obviously driver or extension based is a horrible solution.
Click to expand...

Its not a driver or extension, the integrated graphics can't handle it. I have ran every res and every setting in WoW on my macbook, unless I set it to 800x600, the thing ran SLOW. Apparently that guy had some SUPER macbook that the intel integrated graphics ran great.
 
KaosDG said:
Telling someone to buy new hardware isn't helpful.

Neither is arguing about the responses.

If you don't like them, don't respond to them.


Back on to the topic.

What Applications do you have installed?
What's running in the background?

What version of OS X is it? When you re-installed, did you do a completely FRESH install, or an archive-reinstall?

What kind of memory is in the Macbook (3rd party or preinstalled by apple?)

What is in your system logs?


We can't search for the time being so you're going to have to reiterate the steps you've tried and what's in your system.
Click to expand...

My question to you KhaosDG is this, how are those things going to help WoW run faster? I could see it helping the FireFox problem, but how will it improve performance when he is running WoW (mac version) at 1200x800. I have been tinkering with this for over a year with my macbook with no better frame rates unless I dropped the res to 800x600.
 
KaosDG said:
Back on to the topic.

What Applications do you have installed?
What's running in the background?

What version of OS X is it? When you re-installed, did you do a completely FRESH install, or an archive-reinstall?

What kind of memory is in the Macbook (3rd party or preinstalled by apple?)

What is in your system logs?


We can't search for the time being so you're going to have to reiterate the steps you've tried and what's in your system.
Click to expand...

Apps installed:
Adium
Firefox
iTunes
Warcraft 3
WoW
X-Chat

Background:
To my knowledge no non-system processes in the background other than Growl.

OSX:
10.4.10, however I did do an Archive-Install.

Memory: I couldn't tell you. I bought the laptop from Small Dog Computers and they installed the RAM.

What should I be looking for in my system log?

I'm double checking that everything is up-to-date in Software Update as I'm typing this.
 
kenham40 said:
My question to you KhaosDG is this, how are those things going to help WoW run faster? I could see it helping the FireFox problem, but how will it improve performance when he is running WoW (mac version) at 1200x800. I have been tinkering with this for over a year with my macbook with no better frame rates unless I dropped the res to 800x600.
Click to expand...


i'm not limiting the troubleshooting to WoW.

if he's complaining IN GENERAL that things are bad, then we have to work on the GENERAL solution.

Then Tweak WoW.

For all we know, he could have MissingSync in the background forever polling the USB and screwing things up.

(It made my MBP run like molasses, and took me a week to figure out)
 
On that note, just checking Activity Monitor and there's nothing called MissingSync running so that's one thing to rule out.
 
KaosDG said:
i'm not limiting the troubleshooting to WoW.

if he's complaining IN GENERAL that things are bad, then we have to work on the GENERAL solution.

Then Tweak WoW.

For all we know, he could have MissingSync in the background forever polling the USB and screwing things up.

(It made my MBP run like molasses, and took me a week to figure out)
Click to expand...

Well if that is the case (still pretty sure it won't help WoW), but check your downloads list on FireFox, the longer it is, the slower FireFox runs.

http://lifehacker.com/software/firefox/firefox-tip--clear-your-file-download-history-244652.php
 
DrFreeze said:
i remember reading somewhere that mac OS X apparently limits the Vram for the intel integrated graphics to 64 MB, while windows allows for up to 256 mb, you might want to double check that
Click to expand...

If that's true that could very well be the problem. Do you know of any way to change that?

kenham40 said:
Well if that is the case (still pretty sure it won't help WoW), but check your downloads list on FireFox, the longer it is, the slower FireFox runs.

http://lifehacker.com/software/firefox/firefox-tip--clear-your-file-download-history-244652.php
Click to expand...

I make a habit of clearing my downloads as soon as things finish. Thanks though.
 
How much physical ram do you have in your macbook?

To find out, go to the apple, click on "about this mac" and report back :)
 
DrFreeze said:
the OP noted that his macbook seems to run twice as fast under XP in comparison with mac os X, that is his issue

i remember reading somewhere that mac OS X apparently limits the Vram for the intel integrated graphics to 64 MB, while windows allows for up to 256 mb, you might want to double check that
Click to expand...

It does not do that; both WinXP and OS X have a limit of 224MB for the GMA950; quoted from an Intel employee who worked on the drivers for the GMA950.

@ Kenham40; the GMA950 is not as underpowered as you think.

It can do everything, and yes I mean EVERYTHING a discreet graphics chip can do except for 3D gaming and Final Cut that relies on a graphics chip.

I play WoW on my MacBook and my friends who have MacBooks also play WoW, and we average between 20-35 FPS at medium settings at 1280x800.

Other tests have proven other even much never games are completely playable on the GMA950 if you sacrifice detail/eye-candy and stay at native or an equivalent aspect ratio'd lower resolution.



The problems you're having are nothing I've ever experienced with my machine or any other properly maintained working machine.

Your problems could in fact be hardware based, it could be that the CPU is throttling heavily from poor thermal paste application which is unlikely; but possible.

Absolutely nothing for me is faster in XP than OS X; not even WoW, not even with hacked drivers. It's the same hardware and both OS are plenty capable of using both to the fullest.

Often MacBook's (and other Apple machines for that matter) are very picky with 3rd party RAM installed. Sometimes they don't boot sometimes they are just unbearably slow. This sounds like what you're experiencing. Or at least faulty RAM.

If you're running 1GB or more of RAM; WoW should run just as I said above, and you should be getting 30-40 outside, and 20-30 in towns with no issues.

My RAM is Patriot DDR2 5300 (667mhz) SO-DIMM; 2x1GB set; what've you got?

edit: just looked at your SIG and it looks like you have 1.25GB of RAM; that means the stock Apple 256MB and an added stick of 1GB; so what brand was that stick adn what were it's specs? Also, having RAM of the same size in both slots does increase performance. If you had 2x512 instead of 1x256 and 1x1gb it'd be quicker.

Memory is cheap, and a good way to start testing this would be to remove the 256mb stick and see how it performs with the 1gb installed solo. If that's still slow; and I attribute it to the 3rd party RAM you picked, which is as I said, a common issue; picky RAM.
 
Optional87 said:
It does not do that; both WinXP and OS X have a limit of 224MB for the GMA950; quoted from an Intel employee who worked on the drivers for the GMA950.

@ Kenham40; the GMA950 is not as underpowered as you think.

It can do everything, and yes I mean EVERYTHING a discreet graphics chip can do except for 3D gaming and Final Cut that relies on a graphics chip.

I play WoW on my MacBook and my friends who have MacBooks also play WoW, and we average between 20-35 FPS at medium settings at 1280x800.

Other tests have proven other even much never games are completely playable on the GMA950 if you sacrifice detail/eye-candy and stay at native or an equivalent aspect ratio'd lower resolution.



The problems you're having are nothing I've ever experienced with my machine or any other properly maintained working machine.

Your problems could in fact be hardware based, it could be that the CPU is throttling heavily from poor thermal paste application which is unlikely; but possible.

Absolutely nothing for me is faster in XP than OS X; not even WoW, not even with hacked drivers. It's the same hardware and both OS are plenty capable of using both to the fullest.

Often MacBook's (and other Apple machines for that matter) are very picky with 3rd party RAM installed. Sometimes they don't boot sometimes they are just unbearably slow. This sounds like what you're experiencing. Or at least faulty RAM.

If you're running 1GB or more of RAM; WoW should run just as I said above, and you should be getting 30-40 outside, and 20-30 in towns with no issues.

My RAM is Patriot DDR2 5300 (667mhz) SO-DIMM; 2x1GB set; what've you got?

edit: just looked at your SIG and it looks like you have 1.25GB of RAM; that means the stock Apple 256MB and an added stick of 1GB; so what brand was that stick adn what were it's specs? Also, having RAM of the same size in both slots does increase performance. If you had 2x512 instead of 1x256 and 1x1gb it'd be quicker.

Memory is cheap, and a good way to start testing this would be to remove the 256mb stick and see how it performs with the 1gb installed solo. If that's still slow; and I attribute it to the 3rd party RAM you picked, which is as I said, a common issue; picky RAM.
Click to expand...

With all settings turned off at 1200x800 I could get 30fps, but it wasn't constant, it would fluctuate badly (from 5-30 back to 10, etc..). I wouldn't consider that to be a great gaming experience. My latency was always 35 or less so I knew it wasn't my connection. I would like to know though how you got it to run at a steady 20-35fps on the intel integrated chip, can let my buddy know that has one.
 
Optional87 said:
Often MacBook's (and other Apple machines for that matter) are very picky with 3rd party RAM installed. Sometimes they don't boot sometimes they are just unbearably slow. This sounds like what you're experiencing. Or at least faulty RAM.

If you're running 1GB or more of RAM; WoW should run just as I said above, and you should be getting 30-40 outside, and 20-30 in towns with no issues.

My RAM is Patriot DDR2 5300 (667mhz) SO-DIMM; 2x1GB set; what've you got?

edit: just looked at your SIG and it looks like you have 1.25GB of RAM; that means the stock Apple 256MB and an added stick of 1GB; so what brand was that stick adn what were it's specs? Also, having RAM of the same size in both slots does increase performance. If you had 2x512 instead of 1x256 and 1x1gb it'd be quicker.

Memory is cheap, and a good way to start testing this would be to remove the 256mb stick and see how it performs with the 1gb installed solo. If that's still slow; and I attribute it to the 3rd party RAM you picked, which is as I said, a common issue; picky RAM.
Click to expand...

Totally agree, I recommend aftermarket ram from these guys:

Other World Computing
 
Lets start - first off, you've got the slowest, first macbook ever made. You don't have dual channel memory (256 in 1 slot, 1024 in the other) so you're losing 5-10% memory bandwidth. You've got a small harddrive and since you're dual booting I assume you're very close to the hard drive size limits.

Suggestions:
Buy more RAM. 2GB is a must and in a hot deal you can find 2GB (2x1GB) laptop ddr667 for less then $40.

I went on Slickdeals.net and found:
http://shop3.outpost.com/product/5297187

2GB for $45 after rebate. That will zip your performance straight up. Next off, consider a faster harddrive. Since you can't upgrade the processor, you could just get a bigger HD that that leaves more headroom.
 
Hard Drive space is nowhere near being an issue, both partitions have over 50% free. (40/20GB paritions).

I'm up in Canada, so RAM isn't even close to being that cheap unfortunately, but I'll look into it.

I'll pop it open and see what RAM I've got in there.

Optional87 said:
Your problems could in fact be hardware based, it could be that the CPU is throttling heavily from poor thermal paste application which is unlikely; but possible.
Click to expand...

Highly unlikely. As I've mentioned repeatedly performance under XP is what I would expect. Issues only arise in OSX.

Update: the 1GB stick is from some company I've never even heard of called "DMS". Yay for quality service from Small Dog -_-
256MB is from "Hynix"

Booting it up now with just the 1GB.


Update #2:
System performance is HEADS AND SHOULDERS better than it was now that I'm running only the 1GB stick. WoW performance remains unchanged (no surprise).

Firefox load times went from *still tapping my fingers* to "What!? It's open in less than 2 bounces right after booting!?".
 
yup, as stated...Macs can be very picky about their RAM...or in this case, the RAM configuration.

I honestly doubt you will get wow running all that well...
 
Gillette said:
Hard Drive space is nowhere near being an issue, both partitions have over 50% free. (40/20GB paritions).

I'm up in Canada, so RAM isn't even close to being that cheap unfortunately, but I'll look into it.

I'll pop it open and see what RAM I've got in there.



Highly unlikely. As I've mentioned repeatedly performance under XP is what I would expect. Issues only arise in OSX.

Update: the 1GB stick is from some company I've never even heard of called "DMS". Yay for quality service from Small Dog -_-
256MB is from "Hynix"

Booting it up now with just the 1GB.


Update #2:
System performance is HEADS AND SHOULDERS better than it was now that I'm running only the 1GB stick. WoW performance remains unchanged (no surprise).

Firefox load times went from *still tapping my fingers* to "What!? It's open in less than 2 bounces right after booting!?".
Click to expand...

I suggest getting a matching stick from Small Dog and with 2gb's everything will FLY.
 
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