Electric Cars Emit 50% Less Greenhouse Gas than Diesel, Study Finds

The only limiting factors with any EV, for me, are range and charge times.

As an IT Field Tech, I am required to travel to different work sites (in rural areas, no less) on an almost daily basis. 300+ miles a day on heavy travel days. And most of the time, any service requests I get are already high/critical priority, so I can't be waiting around for a recharge if I'm expected to get on-site ASAP.
 
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Trepidati0n said:
Seriously..this is another study that has not shown its data...only its conclusion. Unless the data is there for all to see and ensure that proper variables are controlled...It is nothing more than propaganda for gain or excuse for people to engage in confirmation bias. Personally, i'm tired of it..from both sides. Anytime a study is released the data should be available unless it can be shown that releasing the data will cause actual harm.
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Well if you wanted to, you could find data. There were studies on the environmental impact of of electric vehicles already that include the full life cycle including manufacturing and recycling. Like this one. And surprise surprise the conclusions are roughly the same about 50% less greenhouse gas emissions for electric vehicles. While it doesn't have the raw data only the aggregation, it has the full methodology explained, so you can check if they're lying or not.
 
With electric cars and nuclear power plants we could be close to 100% emissions free. I really don't understand why the people who would celebrate over a tiny decrease in emissions are also the same people who tend to be very anti-nuclear.
 
Don't try to nick me on the GM & Dodge bailouts.. they should have never been bailed out. Thank Obama and his union pals for that assrape, was not my decision. I'll never buy a car from either of those companies again.

As for the OMFGBIGOIL subsidies, they dont' exist... do your homework. The oil producers get the same business tax breaks every other business gets. And I do not see any other auto manuf's gettin' $7500 per car federal tax credit. Musk alone is getting $5 BILLION in subsidies for his eletric wet dreams. If Tesla & Solar City have such an obber-doober business model.. pull the plug on the billion$ in subsidies. I'm tired of footing the bill so relatively wealthy people can have a $90k toy in the driveway & solar on the roof to feel good about themselves.
 
Evil Scooter said:
As for the OMFGBIGOIL subsidies, they dont' exist... do your homework. The oil producers get the same business tax breaks every other business gets. And I do not see any other auto manuf's gettin' $7500 per car federal tax credit. Musk alone is getting $5 BILLION in subsidies for his eletric wet dreams. If Tesla & Solar City have such an obber-doober business model.. pull the plug on the billion$ in subsidies. I'm tired of footing the bill so relatively wealthy people can have a $90k toy in the driveway & solar on the roof to feel good about themselves.
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So much wrong here. You must get your information from Brietbart and Fox News. Because practically none of this is accurate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_subsidies
"many of the "subsidies" available to the oil and gas industries are general business opportunity credits, available to all US businesses (particularly, the foreign tax credit mentioned above). The value of industry-specific (oil, gas, and coal) subsidies in 2006 was estimated by the Texas State Comptroller to be $6.25 billion - about 60% of the amount".

So only 40% was credits every business can get, the other 60% was specific to fossil fuel industry. You recite lies.

EV buyers get the $7500 tax credit, not the auto manufacturers. And yes people who buy cars built by other manufacturers are getting it too, you're just a spout of ignorance, aren't you? https://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard

Your 5 billion in subsidies figure is bullshit for a number of reasons. First that includes SpaceX dollars, and SpaceX doesn't launch rockets using "electric wet dreams". Oh by the way, SpaceX has greatly lessened the cost of sending satellites into orbit, so maybe that was a good move on the part of the government? Second, Musk's companies haven't gotten anything from the Federal government not available to anyone doing business in the applicable markets. Third, the big ZEV credit you Brietbarters spout off about hurts Tesla in the market rather than helps them, they'd simply be idiots to not sell them, but its worth far more to ICE manufacturers than to Tesla. Fourth, the rest of the credits that you're counting that are Tesla-specific were given by states, not the Feds. Unless you're arguing that States shouldn't try to lure the thousands of jobs Tesla brings with it when it builds a factory, there should be absolutely no issue with this. So to sum up, your figure is super-misleading and bullshit.

You're not footing the bill on Tesla. The government makes interest off Tesla when Tesla pays back its loans early, and if you live in a state where Tesla has a factory, you're benefiting when your neighbor has a factory job instead of standing in the unemployment line.
 
I am not against electric vehicles but I want some kind of assurance that it will last a decade or longer. I may be in the minority but I hold onto my vehicles for some time and drive them into the ground. My wrangler has 117k miles on it and my last commuter had 170k. I am not interested in a pile of debt to look like I some how hit the middle class lottery.
 
EODetroit said:
So much wrong here. You must get your information from Brietbart and Fox News. Because practically none of this is accurate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_subsidies
"many of the "subsidies" available to the oil and gas industries are general business opportunity credits, available to all US businesses (particularly, the foreign tax credit mentioned above). The value of industry-specific (oil, gas, and coal) subsidies in 2006 was estimated by the Texas State Comptroller to be $6.25 billion - about 60% of the amount".

So only 40% was credits every business can get, the other 60% was specific to fossil fuel industry. You recite lies.

EV buyers get the $7500 tax credit, not the auto manufacturers. And yes people who buy cars built by other manufacturers are getting it too, you're just a spout of ignorance, aren't you? https://insideevs.com/monthly-plug-in-sales-scorecard

Your 5 billion in subsidies figure is bullshit for a number of reasons. First that includes SpaceX dollars, and SpaceX doesn't launch rockets using "electric wet dreams". Oh by the way, SpaceX has greatly lessened the cost of sending satellites into orbit, so maybe that was a good move on the part of the government? Second, Musk's companies haven't gotten anything from the Federal government not available to anyone doing business in the applicable markets. Third, the big ZEV credit you Brietbarters spout off about hurts Tesla in the market rather than helps them, they'd simply be idiots to not sell them, but its worth far more to ICE manufacturers than to Tesla. Fourth, the rest of the credits that you're counting that are Tesla-specific were given by states, not the Feds. Unless you're arguing that States shouldn't try to lure the thousands of jobs Tesla brings with it when it builds a factory, there should be absolutely no issue with this. So to sum up, your figure is super-misleading and bullshit.

You're not footing the bill on Tesla. The government makes interest off Tesla when Tesla pays back its loans early, and if you live in a state where Tesla has a factory, you're benefiting when your neighbor has a factory job instead of standing in the unemployment line.
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Dogs my source and links wikki... lol. I do not recite lies.. go sharpen your pencil.

Yes.. EV buyers get a tax credit. How many of the other auto manufacturers (non ev)get such preferential treatment?

Being intentionally obtuse is not scoring you any points.
 
Coffeve said:
I am not against electric vehicles but I want some kind of assurance that it will last a decade or longer. I may be in the minority but I hold onto my vehicles for some time and drive them into the ground. My wrangler has 117k miles on it and my last commuter had 170k. I am not interested in a pile of debt to look like I some how hit the middle class lottery.
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I'm with you on this, I have owned my 96 F150 since new and it now has 257k miles on it, and my 85 Jeep Cherokee has 175k miles. How many of the EV and even new ICE cars will last this long? How will it be after 10+ years when they no longer make the computer interface for the touch screen that runs everything on board and you have to run a vehicle without the ability to turn on the heater? If I am paying $30k or more for something it better last me a minimum of 15 years, otherwise it is money wasted.
 
EODetroit said:
More Bullshit. The Tesla Model 3 has close to 500,000 net reservations. The subsidy goes away after 200,000 sales of any EV model by that manufacturer. The vast majority of the people who have reserved the Model 3 know for a fact that they aren't getting the tax incentive because of 4th grade math, yet they've reserved anyways. So tell me again how Tesla won't be able to sell any cars without the government subsidy?

Oh wait, you can't. They'll do just fine, the number of reservations proves it. But go ahead, end the tax incentive. Fuck over every other car manufacturer other than Tesla, GM, and Nissan by ending the incentive before they get a chance to use it.

Oh wait, you won't. Those other car manufacturers will go apeshit with their lobbyists if anyone tries to end the incentive before they've used it. So no, not only is Tesla fine without the subsidies, if they did end early Tesla would be helped, not hurt.
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Only rich people qualify for those subsidies anyway. Both times I shopped for a chevy volt i didnt qualify for any tax incentive. My household income is only 70k, i leased my first one bought my 2nd used. Absolutely love the cars for commuting to work and back. Our monthly gas expensive dropped about $200 a month, and my electric went up about $15-20 a month.
 
Again, we're mired in the problems of recharging the batteries that are hard wired into the car. If we're going to progress to the point where you can drive into a 'charging station', swap battery packs, and drive out much the same as you can drive in and fill up with fuel, we're going to have to find some sort of standardized battery packs that can be used alone or in sets depending upon the needs of the vehicle. Otherwise, we'll remain stuck in the same situation as the cordless tool industry, with each manufacturer having a proprietary EXPENSIVE battery pack replacement for every car, and long recharging times. Sure eventually we may come up with faster charging batteries, but standardized batterie sizes have been working in many other uses for a long time now. Perhaps it's time for somebody to consider what's best for the consumer, instead of what's best for the corporations that make the proprietary battery packs (which all use the same basic cells, only inside of proprietary connector packages).

As far as EV's not being more 'green', and not having enough charging stations, well we have to start somewhere. When the automobile first came out with the ICE, we didn't just go back to the horse because there wasn't a gas station on every corner. Supplies grew as the demand increased. This will work the same way. We could have electric battery packs already charged and ready to be switched out when a car came in with a discharged pack. Some sort of quick and easy set of connectors and a locking device to hold the battery packs in place could surely be designed. No more waiting time for a recharge; you pay for the joules you used, or, pay for the ones in the battery pack you get. Remaining energy will be pro rated in the battery pack you return.
 
Evil Scooter said:
And I do not see any other auto manuf's gettin' $7500 per car federal tax credit. Musk alone is getting $5 BILLION in subsidies for his eletric wet dreams.
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Evil Scooter said:
Yes.. EV buyers get a tax credit. How many of the other auto manufacturers (non ev)get such preferential treatment?
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Please stop the Elon Musk hate spouting, it really makes you sound like a lunatic, especially when you try to respond to others.

But no other auto manufacturers getting it? In addition to Tesla, AMP, BYD, BMW, Fiat, Fisker, Ford, General Motors, Hyundai, Kia, Mercedes-Benz, Mitsubishi, Nissan, Smart, Think, Toyota, Via, Volkswagon, all have/had cars that qualify for the $7500 tax credit, and and companies like Audi, Porshe, and all those I just listed have other cars that are eligible for breaks in the $2500-6600 range.

So you still want to claim that no other auto-manufactures are getting credit?
 
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