EKWB Vardar

Discussion in 'Overclocking & Cooling' started by Deimos, Apr 15, 2018.

  1. Deimos

    Deimos Gawd

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    Saw a few good reviews for these fans. The things that caught my eye were the high static pressure, linear fan speed and startup voltage that has these fans started at just 300rpm. Great I thought, so I purchased a whole lot for a couple of systems I'm watercooling.

    So, yeah, all those things I mentioned are great. Except for one major problem; the fans have really poor build quality. At least a few of the fans I have will rattle either constantly, or when the fan speed is above 600 rpm. I have a couple in my HTPC that buzz. Thankfully I can run those at so low RPM that the buzz can only be heard with your ear against the case but still WTF?
     
  2. Pabaisa

    Pabaisa n00bie

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    Have 3 of these and for pretty much the same reasons they are sitting in my drawer for the past year (and I really do not like their bearing noise even at low RPM, one of them is especially bad but all 3 are annoyng). On another hand gentle typhoons just keep on spinning (really like their sound signature and I can keep them around 800 RPM and, for that matter, corsair sp120 (~650 RPM)).
     
  3. Nebulous

    Nebulous [H]ard|Gawd

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    Dam that's sad. I have a slew of cheapo BitFenix fans on my rad and they all run like champs with no noise/rattle. You would think with high end fans like EK's they would be a better made product. EK's are not the only ones that skimp out on build quality either.
     
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  4. Deimos

    Deimos Gawd

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    My previous build ran Noctua which were great fans with a few forgivable caveats; they put something in their fan housing and blades to make them more rigid, which also means they are brittle, also, the colour. I mean FFS Noctua, how about some options?
     
  5. Krenum

    Krenum [H]ardForum Junkie

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  6. Aenra

    Aenra Limp Gawd

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    Skip Noctuas entirely. They are and have always been underperformers. Yes, really. The same hype, PR bull and mouth-to-mouth hyperbole applying to everything else applies to fans too. Won't even mention pricing, as the performance isn't there in the first place.

    Now in regard to what to pick, that depends on what you want them for.
    For thicker/performance-oriented rads, GTs (Darkside now) are honestly your best and only option. They might cost you a bit more, depending on your location, but there's really no alternative since you don't want the Vardars*.
    For low RPM type of rads, you have a buckload of options, but most come with caveats. You like quality? BeQuiet's SL3, hands down (although you need the 3pin variety, the PWM one doesn't play nice with most controllers). You want average quality with good performance? Noiseblockers (except mind you, they need be on push only; they have issues when running as pull). You want value? Gets easier. Phanteks, Cryorig and depending on how low RPM you're looking at, possibly a lot more.
    It's only an issue when you need really high SP; emphasis on need. Below a certain threshold that statistically speaking most don't even need, honestly? Don't sweat it too much.

    * This rattling noise.. which Vardar fans are we talking about and at what RPM? It's natural to have some noise at low RPMs, this is no defect, the bearing itself is made thus so as to be capable of withstanding much higher RPMs without damaging itself or making you deaf; it tends to smooth down only as it ramps up. Try driving them at 60% (of the operable frequency range, like for the 3k ones, at 2100 or so), is rattling still audible? If not, the fault is yours am afraid.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2018
  7. Deimos

    Deimos Gawd

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    If you read my original post you would know that a) I am happy with Noctua fans (performance/noise) and b) some of the fans rattle and buzz and get worse at higher fan speeds.

    I have 3 140mm fans on one radiator and one of them rattles randomly at 300rpm, louder at 600 rpm and the rattle does not abate at higher speeds. Just one not all three which indicates poor build quality.

    I also have 14 120mm Vardars in the same system that are great however I ordered 12 more for another system, one of the fans had fan blades rubbing on the fan chasis (poor build quality) and had to be 'adjusted'. There are two more in the front of the case that buzz constantly which gets much louder the higher the fan speed, it is clearly not bering noise.

    I have never had issues with Noctua fans. I agree that there is probably a lot of market BS in the fan market but the difference between fans with high static pressure at the same rpm by different manufacturers is marginal, your claim that Noctua underperform might be true but the diference in performance is marginal, therefore irrelevant when all things are considered.
     
  8. Aenra

    Aenra Limp Gawd

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    You mention 300 and 600 RPMs, but no Vardar was made to be run that low and while i did read your OP, yes, i wasn't sure if i had understood you correctly :)

    I never said you'd have issues with Noctua fans; i said they're insanely overpriced while simultaneously having a bad performance compared to others of their category. That you're "O.K." with them only means your rads/setup need minimal static pressure, not that the Noctuas are good, because none are.
    Put differently, you could have used other fans costing less than half the price, offering exact same performance and temps.

    (needless to say, there is such a thing as the future; one's giving advice need not entail one's suggesting any radical changes.. just info saved, for when the time comes again)
     
  9. KD5ZXG

    KD5ZXG Limp Gawd

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    I prefer the Delta TFC1212DE. No noise whatsoever. Wait, speak up! What was that you said?
    The 3.5A draw is exaggerated, really only a little over 2A. No seriously, I CANT HEAR YOU.

    Don't how to measure static pressure, but at 14.5V they will lift thier own weight and then some.
    When your food processor breaks down, always good to have one these for a spare.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2018
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  10. Aenra

    Aenra Limp Gawd

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    HAVE YOU EVER BEEN IN A MOTORHEAD CONCERT DUDE?

    And yeah, too loud, not to be considered, lol
    As to measuring, the right process is a specialised tube that is airtight except a designated 'in' and 'out'; you insert tho catheters round the middle, one of which is artificially controlled and set to to a steady temp; you've got their ends inside the tube, near but separate, the other ends outside, connected to thermal probes. You pump gas (not air) into the tube at a steady, fixed rate and measure the temp differential between the two probes.
    Roughly speaking :)

    Moot point anyhow, most folks buy a 30 bucks anemometer, stick it in front of their fans and then write interwebz reviews about the results. Social media at their usual finest ^^
     
  11. Deimos

    Deimos Gawd

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    Three is no way that is correct. The Vardar are designed to start at or lower than 300 rpm.

    Have a look at their marketing page;
    https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-vardar-f4-120-2200rpm

    Designed for high static pressure and low noise profile over the entire operating range.

    It's just bull shit to claim, making the claims they do, that it's too much to expect a fan that doesn't buzz or rattle at sub 600rpm.

    Also, why are you defending shitty build quality?
     
  12. Aenra

    Aenra Limp Gawd

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    We appear to have an issue here, but i am new and wearing my best face, so allow me to assist one final time:

    - All fans, yours included, all of them, are meant to run within a specific RPM range. This is a technical limitation related to bearings, motor function and pure physics.
    - Your fan states a maximum of 2200 RPM with a minimum operable frequency of 40%. It's in the very page you just linked me. First grade math tells us this is 880RPM. Minimum. Below that and it's your fault if facing any issues, not the manufacturer's. As once again explained above, in order to ensure that the bearing won't lift off and that you won't go deaf, there is a calibration involved; one resulting in no rattling noise above a certain threshold. A threshold you are not respecting. Ergo, again, your fault.
    - The only way you can claim malfunction is if the fan rattled above 880 RPM. Above, lol, not at 300. It is why i politely asked for the RPM in which you are running them. So as to rule it out.

    I sincerely hope this has been of assistance to you as it signals the end of my participation.

    As to my 'defending' them, hardly.
    One, i advised GTs in the first place, different brand. Although do mind, the same applies there, lol. Specs. We tend to respect those.
    Two, i relate facts, not opinions; your appearing to be willing to ignore them and stick to your own conclusions is not my doing.
    Three, there is an issue when one faces an opposing opinion and the first thing to come to mind is that the other is "defending". It bespeaks of underlying issues.
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2018
  13. Deimos

    Deimos Gawd

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    The fan that is rattling is one of these ones:
    https://www.ekwb.com/shop/ek-vardar-evo-140s

    With a max speed of 1150rpm, it should not be rattling at 600 rpm.

    Also, you're quoting the pwm duty cycle, 40% is the minimum signal required to start and run the fan which is not the same as fan speed.

    Finally, 23 of the 26 f4-120s I have run just fine at 300 rpm, one of them was rubbing on itself and two of them buzz at any speed. So Mr bearing engineer, how did specs and numbers factor in my real world scenario?
     
  14. Deimos

    Deimos Gawd

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    I've never heard anyone claim that fan bearings are designed to not rattle only within operating range. That doesn't sound like dealing in facts to me, more like blatant trolling.

    In the 18 years I have been building PCs I have only had an issue with bearing noise on crap quality fans.

    I used to run a system with 12 Sunon 80 mm fans designed to only run at 3000 rpm that were dead silent at 500 rpm.

    If a company can't design a fan bearing that doesn't rattle at any speed, they have failed.
     
  15. meltdowner

    meltdowner [H]Lite

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    I agree, I almost bought those vardar.too but instead got 8 artic air fans from amazon.

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B008ENMSZU/ref=yo_ii_img?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    They arent as powerful as id hoped but they work and are QUIET. good price too.
     
  16. Deimos

    Deimos Gawd

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    The 140mm Vardar that was rattling at low speed became a full time rattler. Stupid me, I figured "hey, only one dud Vardar out of 22, they can't be all bad" so I figured I'd try the Vardar 140ER 2200RPM and replaced all three.

    So great, they go all the way down to 400rpm, dead silent, no rattle, oh what bliss, but FUCK ME, they only go from 500 rpm, straight to 1100 RPM and the noise is UNBEARABLE. The PWM circuit appears to be utterly useless, they say the PWM has "extended range" from 25% to 100% but these things (according to my motherboard which has issues properly detecting the speed range with these new fans) has them starting at 10% (which I had to hack to enable) and the fans are at max RPM at 70%.

    I got a nice temp drop by having my top fans blowing out but I don't think I can run my system dead silent while gaming so I need to find something else that has better range control, can anyone recommend a good, 140mm fan with high static pressure and maybe a max RPM of 1200-1500? I'm contemplating going for the Noctua Redux NF-P14S, I always liked the noise profile, PWM control and quality of the Noctua fans in my last system.
     
  17. meltdowner

    meltdowner [H]Lite

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    Just letting everyone know I'm extremely happy with the arctic air I bought above. They're quiet and move air enough. Very please.
     
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  18. Deimos

    Deimos Gawd

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    I've ordered the Noctua NF-A14 Chromax to try. I think the radiator thickness is really causing a lot of extra noise and these vardar fans have terrible range control.
     
  19. meltdowner

    meltdowner [H]Lite

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    Theyre simply not worth the money (the vardar). Artic air guys, cant go wrong for that price. Again the only downside to Arctic air is the top speed isnt "great". Its good. Above average. But its not like omg its like a vacuum cleaner, feel you might get with a super high speed fan.

    The price/performance is solid though. I got 8 and they are doing the job and then some.
     
  20. cyberguyz

    cyberguyz Limp Gawd

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    Feh! You want a real man's fan!

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/DELTA-AFB1...201146?hash=item28371ae47a:g:nlkAAOSwZJlXNYK-

    Most of the veterans here will recognize the name Delta.

    some speccies:

    Air Flow 113.1 CFM (3.17m³/min)
    Static Pressure 0.430 in H2O (10.92 mm H20 / 107.1 Pa )
    Power 6.36 W
    Bearing Dual Ball
    Loudness 46.5 dBA
    Max Speed 3600 RPM

    These aren't the 38mm, 6 amp 66 DBa monsters, they are a lot more civilized, but still provide top level static pressure and CFM.

    @less than $8 each, they are a freaking steal (I have 3 ont the way myself). If you have a fan controller you can spin them down to silence ans still get decent performance from them.
     
  21. Deimos

    Deimos Gawd

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    New fans arrived today, hopefully they have decent PWM control and I'm hopeful that they won't be noisy given the rated noise level at full tilt is almost 10dBA lower than the Vardar fans. I'll keep you all posted.
     
  22. cyberguyz

    cyberguyz Limp Gawd

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    Noctuas are pretty quiet. You will like them. They are ugly as sin tho :p
     
  23. Deimos

    Deimos Gawd

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    Fans are all installed, huge difference in noise profile. It's tolerable at full tilt (which is unnecessary) and they shift quite a lot of air at "silent" speed.

    I got the Chromax 140mm fans, they are basic black and include a mix of rubber standoffs so you can choose the colour. They look fantastic.