EB games/Gamestop need to be banned/class action lawsuit needs to be addressed

It amazes me how many people can't see the simple logic....

Those that call me a douchebag, scoundrel, loser etc.....Do you think I accidentally pre-ordered five xboxes? I've seen the same thing happen with the original Xbox and PS2, I knew this would happen this way...That's why I laid out my business capitol as a small investment...(abliet it small) It's NO DIFFERENT than any other business transaction. You buy low and sell high. I knew I wanted an Xbox360 but didn't want to pay for it. I choose not to work three jobs, and instead use my head and financial sense to buy things I want. If you have a problem with such simple business concepts you will never exceed financially in life, because you don't understand rudimentary finances. My advice - pick out a book like "Rich Dad, Poor Dad" and read through it. Follow the simple gimmick to getting rich...Only buy liabilities with assets....In this case the xbox360's would be both...or broken down even more...Don't purchase anything non-essential without first having the plan on how you are going to pay for it without dipping into your normal salary.

I got screwed by EB/Gamestop like thousands of others, and to say walkaway and quit complaining is opening up similar occurences to happen in possible future situations ---- and this is far more important than my lost finances/business plan. The guy with the hotdog analogy is right on....EB/Gamestop needs to fufill pre-orders FIRST because that is the WHOLE PURPOSE OF PREORDERING - I don't disagree with the fact that they should have limited pre-orders to one per person - fact is they DIDN'T...... Not only did they not fufill their end of the bargain, but they had everyone's pre-order money for six months and offered NO/NADA/ZIP compensation - didn't even make an apology. A $10-25 dollar gift certificate could have made a LOT of people's frustration disappear.

As far as my five pre-orders causing shortages - saying that is simply idiotic. I am not causing shortaes by pre-ordering six months in advance - in fact I am helping them determine how many they need to have available. As far as idiots buying them for $800 on ebay right now. I don't tell them to, and I wouldn't even ever think about buying it for $800, but I sure as heck don't mind taking the extra money from someone who needs one RIGHT THIS INSTANT, and was too dumb to pre-order or too lazy to wait in line on the 22nd. I have no sympathy for someone willing to pay $800. Supply and demand - buy low -sell high...that concept is built into EVERYTHING fiscal. By my intent to sell four xboxes on ebay at $600-$800 a piece I wouldn't have hurt anyone except for those dumb enough to hurt themselves. Smart people, would just wait till the second shipment....by christmas or a little after the retail price $400 premium packages of xbox360's will be easy to find at nearly any store. Furthermore, I don't care about some sob story about the family mom or dad who is looking for one for his son and can't find on and has to pay $800 on ebay to fufill his son's wishes that's going to be told on the morning news. Blah blah blah -----whatever, pre-order or wait in line like the rest of us --- or don't do it and pay the consequence of people like me who tried to think ahead - or better yet teach your kid a lesson about supply and demand and tell them they have to wait a couple days after christmas so they can buy the xbox 360 for half price and let the kid pocket some of the extra money saved as a financial lesson so they won't be fiscally illiterate in life.


Sure, my 250 dollars means nothing and me pursuing it in regards to my own loss or gain isn't significant, but when they did this to thousands of people. Gamestop could have been sitting on millions in pre-order capitol that generated 100,000s of thousands of dollars - unethically because that they've not fulfilled their promises.

That's illegal and PERFECT grounds for a class-action lawsuit.


The fact that the price of the xbox360 will be back down to near normal retail by Christmas isn't an argument point...I specifficaly was told by the store that I would get five first shipment pre-orders, and again when I called to ask them if they were the premium or core packages when that distinction came into the light. I wanted them early so that I could sell them....I was promised that....that is why I gave them my pre-order money. They failed to deliver on their promises to not just me ---- But thousands of folk....THAT is the problem.

In regards to a class action lawsuit --- yes I might get only get 50 bucks back from for my five orders if one ever came to pass. But as I mentioned before. The point of a class action lawsuit isn't my 50 bucks, or any other single individual's monetary loss, but the fact that it happened to so many and the huge negative press, and overall value/trouble it would cause EB/Gamestop....etc is the retribution. The court assigned fine/lawyer fees/customer damages would be the diciplinary action given to the careless big companies(who thought they could get away with it) and screwed the common working man----- and just as importantly ------to society in general because it sets a precident that this is not allowable by the big companies without retailiation or repacutions.


Is this loss of money going to be the end of me now????? :p Hardly - I simply wanted an Xbox 360 and didn't want to pay for it...so I thought of the way that I could do so.
You know what? I made five thousand on the stock market recently. $5,000 of which was from one company - ATYT. Do you know why I bought ATYT? Because they make the graphics card for the xbox360 and their stock has been increasing like mad lately. You know why I thought about buying ATYT? Because I was researching Nvidia back 4 years ago when the original xbox came out and I noticed their stock tripled because they made the graphics card for the original xbox. Was it an accident that I bought as many shares of ATYT as I could afford? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! I bought it because I understand finances, and that's the same reason I wanted to buy 5 xbox360s. I knew I wanted an xbox 360, but didn't want to pay for it....and easily figured out a way I could obtain one without paying for it.

My stock purchase of ATYT is no more illegitmate than my purchase of five xbox360s'. Both were designed to generate revenue. Both are 100% legitimate business transactions. If you cry out about business/making money/using your brain, then go ahead and continue working those three jobs so you can buy your xbox360...I choose to use my time more efficiently.
 
[Fate]Doom said:
Irresponsibility is abound everywhere.

I wish I knew what really happened, but I really beleive the new game store high pressure sales and corporate greed are at play."You better get X# of pre-orders or else". You cant go in a gamestore without being hassled to pre-order just about anything.
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That's exactly it. When I used to work at GameStop, 5% of your sales had to be reservations and another 5% had to be Game Informer magazine/GameStop card subscriptions. If you didn't meet those numbers, you would get written up for the week.

Granted, my manager was cool about it and didn't write most up as sometimes people just don't want to reserve titles. As long as you were trying, you would be ok.
 
Sir-Fragalot said:
Yes I do. I work three jobs, believe me I know the dollar value associated with time. How YOU as a consumer spend your time is NOT the fault of another company. They didn't force him to pre-order five Xbox 360's and they didn't force him to fork over $250 or drive 45minutes to do it. That was his decision. Everyone values their time differently. Just as no one can put a price on your personal photos or any data on your hard drive, you can not actually put an actual price on your time, that another company can be made liable for.

He made his choices. EB offered to refund the money and cancel his orders. At the most, I can see them throwing a small gift certificate his way for the trouble. I've seen retailers do that. However, he made his choices, his circumstances and situation is his problem. Not EB's. They don't owe him a damn thing more than what he paid them.
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No I'm saying they went and used his and everyone elses money for 6 months in their own corporation and made money off it. They basically tricked all of these people into giving them free capital with 0% interest. It's not fair and it's shady.
 
Oh poor baby!!
You didn't get to butt-rape someone on EBay, how sad for you. :rolleyes:

It is people like you, the sudden profiteers, that make launches of anything suck ass.
Hell, I bet you are the kind of individual that would charge $5,000/hr for backhoe service right after a hurricane and call it “good business sense”.

If you can’t see how you ordering 5 Xboxes create a shortage, then you are hopelessly lost
You ordering 5, means 4 people in that store don’t get one so they have to go elsewhere, such as EBay.
It just shows you as a greedy individual and you won’t get any sympathy from most people here.

The fact is I am glad you don’t get your 5 and I hope you don’t get the 2 at Wal-Mart you are trying to get either.
I hope you don’t get one until the prices on EBay are normal.
People like you just plain suck.
 
dissonance said:
No I'm saying they went and used his and everyone elses money for 6 months in their own corporation and made money off it. They basically tricked all of these people into giving them free capital with 0% interest. It's not fair and it's shady.
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Yes, it seems that might have happened and it is wrong.
But it is no more Evil then what this asshat is trying to do on EBay.
 
Archaea your ignorance is quite amusing. You are only looking at this situation from a small micro perspective, and only really from your perspective. Contrary to your popular belief, the world does not revolve around you and your "business investments". You make a number of outright fallacious arguments. There is a reason why there are micro- and macro-economics.

Your actions as a single person do not cause a shortage on its own, however it does exacerbate any shortage that might arise. Your argument that by preordering it actually lets them make more is also fallacious. If they were not going to be able to meet demand in the first place, then by you trying to purchase more it only increases the shortage. It isn't like they can magically crap out 4 more Xbox360's to fulfill your order. They need to be produced, and they cant be produced any faster than the capacity of their facilities.

Also your beef with EB / Gamestop is misfounded as well. You are upset that you were promised first shipment, did the EB corporate office promise you this or a store clerk/manager? The fault here is not with the company, it is with the employee who made you a promise based on probably no information at all. The point of the preorder is a preorder, to get your place in line. How far the line stretches is determined by the supply. It just so happens that the person you talked to who assured you that it was the first shipment probably didn't know better. In any case you still have your place in line for the preorder, and as per the preorder policy I am sure, you will be recieving your preorder in turn...nothing misleading at all.

Also, you seem to underestimate the amount of effort some people are willing to go to get one of these. You seem to think that by arriving an hour and a half before sale you can make out with not one but two X360 from Wal-Mart?!

I am like you in a way, I plan on camping out overnight to get an Xbox360. On the drive home from college today I asked my friend if he would come with me and he agreed. I plan on withdrawing an extra 400 from the bank and give it to him to buy a second one for me. What is in it for him? 25% of the profit. I dont think you are a douchebag for wanting to buy some extra and sell them, that is the capitalistic economy in action. What makes you come across as a douchebag is your apparent sense of entitlement.

I think you need to take a step back on this and reflect on a number of different things: how do your actions look to others, who is really to blame for this be it Microsoft, EB, or an employee trying to meet a monthly quota, and finally how your posts on here make you look to others.
 
JRT said:
Oh poor baby!!
Hell, I bet you are the kind of individual that would charge $5,000/hr for backhoe service right after a hurricane and call it “good business sense”.
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That is going a might far. No one NEEDS an Xbox360. Buying early so you can POSSIBLY charge a premium that individuals WILLINGLY and DELIBERATELY pay IS good business sense.

Charging out the ass for a service people need to get the three basic necessities of life (food, water, shelter) is just being a greedy fucking dick.

Backhoes after hurricanes? Manditory. Xbox360s, you can PROBABLY live without one. :rolleyes:

Don't confuse the issue between EB/Gamestop getting a few hundred thousand dollar interest free loan, and an individual's intent to cash in on supply and demand. Again. Xbo360s are in demand AS A LUXURY. People wil pay out the ass because they can, and want something that badly, not because they simply need an Xbox over their head to protect them from the elements. :rolleyes:
 
dissonance said:
No I'm saying they went and used his and everyone elses money for 6 months in their own corporation and made money off it. They basically tricked all of these people into giving them free capital with 0% interest. It's not fair and it's shady.
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EB/Gamestop has no control over what Microsoft can ship. Especially when Microsoft said it would ship a certain amount of consoles, and then cut that number down to a third or less of the original number.

If they are guilty of anything, it's letting this guy actually reserve FIVE Xbox's.
 
Archaea said:
You know what? I made six thousand on the stock market this week. $5,000 of which was from one company - ATYT. Do you know why I bought ATYT? Because they make the graphics card for the xbox360 and their stock has been increasing like mad lately.
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BooeffinHooo!

Just because you got "screwed" by EB/Gamestop out of your preorders, you wanted to not pay to get a Xbox360? To put it simply, you are willing to make money off everyday people who wants one to play with one for the holidays or whatnot, by selling 4 of them for a big profit while in turn still making a nice chunk of money off ATI stock this past week. You made money on the stock, go buy one on Ebay and stop whining. You still came up on top, but I guess you're not satisfied with that. I hope karma comes around and bite a big chunk out of you soon.
 
JRT said:
It is people like you, the sudden profiteers, that make launches of anything suck ass.
Hell, I bet you are the kind of individual that would charge $5,000/hr for backhoe service right after a hurricane and call it “good business sense”.

If you can’t see how you ordering 5 Xboxes create a shortage, then you are hopelessly lost
You ordering 5, means 4 people in that store don’t get one so they have to go elsewhere, such as EBay.
It just shows you as a greedy individual and you won’t get any sympathy from most people here.

The fact is I am glad you don’t get your 5 and I hope you don’t get the 2 at Wal-Mart you are trying to get either.
I hope you don’t get one until the prices on EBay are normal.
People like you just plain suck.

and some other retarded statement basically saying that me selling xboxes on ebay at increased rates is no different than a huge coorporation taking advantage of thousands of peoples money with no compensation.
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JRT,

I can't make it clearer to you...you just don't get it.

I would not take advantage of someone in a necessity of life instance - I thought I made it clear in a previous post that this is not a essential thing, that this is a luxory, and that I feel this sort of thing should only be purchased with money outside of my normal salary. I would not charge 5000 for backhoe service, in fact, when tragedy has struck in my area i'm out volunteering, not pursuing financial gain.

selling these on ebay to someone for a huge profit is not "evil" there is no guise in what the total fee will be that the auction winner will pay...there is no false pretense or promise as there was in this pre-order scandal. The person who is buying the xbox360 at the increased price knows full well what they are doing, the deal will be made - and the (key point) the product will be delivered.



Eramus said:
Archaea your ignorance is quite amusing. You are only looking at this situation from a small micro perspective, and only really from your perspective. Contrary to your popular belief, the world does not revolve around you and your "business investments". You make a number of outright fallacious arguments. There is a reason why there are micro- and macro-economics.

Your actions as a single person do not cause a shortage on its own, however it does exacerbate any shortage that might arise. Your argument that by preordering it actually lets them make more is also fallacious. If they were not going to be able to meet demand in the first place, then by you trying to purchase more it only increases the shortage. It isn't like they can magically crap out 4 more Xbox360's to fulfill your order. They need to be produced, and they cant be produced any faster than the capacity of their facilities.

Also your beef with EB / Gamestop is misfounded as well. You are upset that you were promised first shipment, did the EB corporate office promise you this or a store clerk/manager? The fault here is not with the company, it is with the employee who made you a promise based on probably no information at all. The point of the preorder is a preorder, to get your place in line. How far the line stretches is determined by the supply. It just so happens that the person you talked to who assured you that it was the first shipment probably didn't know better. In any case you still have your place in line for the preorder, and as per the preorder policy I am sure, you will be recieving your preorder in turn...nothing misleading at all.

Also, you seem to underestimate the amount of effort some people are willing to go to get one of these. You seem to think that by arriving an hour and a half before sale you can make out with not one but two X360 from Wal-Mart?!

I am like you in a way, I plan on camping out overnight to get an Xbox360. On the drive home from college today I asked my friend if he would come with me and he agreed. I plan on withdrawing an extra 400 from the bank and give it to him to buy a second one for me. What is in it for him? 25% of the profit. I dont think you are a douchebag for wanting to buy some extra and sell them, that is the capitalistic economy in action. What makes you come across as a douchebag is your apparent sense of entitlement.

I think you need to take a step back on this and reflect on a number of different things: how do your actions look to others, who is really to blame for this be it Microsoft, EB, or an employee trying to meet a monthly quota, and finally how your posts on here make you look to others.
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Eramus,

You talk big - and surprisingly enough know the words macro and micro economics, yet don't know what they mean apparently, because you nevere address them in your post.

1. By pre-ordering six months in advance I am supplying them with exactly the information they need to have to ramp up production, and even if production numbers are too low, they have a duty to supply units FIRST to those that have supplied them/ebgames/whomever with money down.

2. I didn't talk to some lowly clerk...I talked originally to the store manager. He guarenteed me 5 first shipment xbox 360's. I paid him $250 dollars to "shake" on the deal. He took my $250...the deal was made...regardless of whose fault it is, it certaintly isn't mine, and I don't care about a (pre-order) line...I was promised I was at the front of that line.

3. I've done research lately (since hearing my pre-orders were cancelled) as to which wal-mart I'm going to go to...Which bestbuys have the most units, and I've got a plan of action...The wal-mart in the worst part of town is where I'm headed and I should be able to arrive about an hour and a half early and pick one up...because as I've stated earlier - THESE are not a "need" item, they are a luxory, and I'm betting on them not being a hot ticket item in a low income area. Failing wal-mart I'll head over to best buy - the store in my area getting the most units and I'll still hope to buy 2 and sell one on ebay.

4. where did you ever mention micro-macro economics in your post? - and how do I fail to see the differences????
 
Archaea said:
I made six thousand on the stock market this week. $5,000 of which was from one company - ATYT. Do you know why I bought ATYT? Because they make the graphics card for the xbox360 and their stock has been increasing like mad lately.
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I would like to point out that ATI does NOT make the Xenos graphics chip in the Xbox360. The stock price is likely skyrocketing because of ill informed people like yourselves acting upon the assumption that ATi makes the chip. In reality they served as a sort of contractor for Microsoft. They designed the chip, but now Microsoft owns the rights to the design. Microsoft performs the manufacturing of the chip, this is why the Microsoft logo is on the chip. This was an important lesson that Microsoft learned from the Xbox. By owning the design of the chip and the manufacturing rights Microsoft is able to decrease costs by transitioning to more efficient manufacturing processes as time progresses. With the original Xbox they were stuck paying the same price for the graphics chip 5 years later while Nvidia raked in the profits.


Now I am not sure if ATi makes any sort of royalties off of the chip, possibly but I dont believe so, it is certainly nothing significant enough to justify a huge jump in their stock price. Especially considering where the rest of their company is at the moment.
 
There's no such thing as karma...

and why in the world do you folk continue to think that selling a NON - ESSENTIAL, luxory item at an increased price (business and NOTHING else) is bad "karma"

it's ridiculous.
 
I've read as much, but none the less....their stock has jumped from $11 a share to nearly $17 a share in the last three months or so(i'm sure a bit of it is due to the lastest graphics card release, as all graphics card companies, and processor companies make a jump each time a new product is announced/launched.) If you overlay Nvidia's stock graph with the release of xbox one and compare it to ATYT's. You'll see that it matches up nicely. I'm not so sure I would expect ATYT's stock to tripple like Nvidia's did upon xbox one release, but I've been saying ATI would be a hot buy at about this point since I first heard they were the graphics chip maker for Xbox "next" to all my friends and co-workers.

Just for the record ---- I would expect Nvida's price to jump as well with the release of the PS3.

But I guess I shouldn't say such things...it's evil to make money. :eek:
 
Archaea said:
Eramus,

You talk big - and surprisingly enough know the words macro and micro economics, yet don't know what they mean apparently, because you nevere address them in your post.

1. By pre-ordering six months in advance I am supplying them with exactly the information they need to have to ramp up production, and even if production numbers are too low, they have a duty to supply units FIRST to those that have supplied them/ebgames/whomever with money down.

2. I didn't talk to some lowly clerk...I talked originally to the store manager. He guarenteed me 5 first shipment xbox 360's. I paid him $250 dollars to "shake" on the deal. He took my $250...the deal was made...regardless of whose fault it is, it certaintly isn't mine, and I don't care about a (pre-order) line...I was promised I was at the front of that line.

3. I've done research lately (since hearing my pre-orders were cancelled) as to which wal-mart I'm going to go to...Which bestbuys have the most units, and I've got a plan of action...The wal-mart in the worst part of town is where I'm headed and I should be able to arrive about an hour and a half early and pick one up...because as I've stated earlier - THESE are not a "need" item, they are a luxory, and I'm betting on them not being a hot ticket item in a low income area. Failing wal-mart I'll head over to best buy - the store in my area getting the most units and I'll still hope to buy 2 and sell one on ebay.

4. where did you ever mention micro-macro economics in your post? - and how do I fail to see the differences????
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First of all it's ERA-S-MUS...

Second of all I took both Macro and Micro economics, I even got to play with cool little PDA's in class in micro economics to simulate supply and demand, and other theories. I got B's in both of the classes (not A's because frankly I wasn't doing well in school my freshman year...I do have straight A's currently in all my engineering classes now). I didn't go into any of the macro/micro stuff because frankly the details are irrelevant.

Even a store manager is hardly more than a store clerk. They act upon the same information as the clerks do. I think you should actually ask to see their list of preorders, and dates of those preorders, and see where you are on that list. They go through the preorders on a first come first served basis, plain and simple. I dont believe that EB is failing to fulfill their promise here, rather the store manager is. All of this talk is worth nothing if you dont have a copy of the actual pre-order agreement. If they never guarantee when you will get yours, the fact that you eventually get one in the order that you (pre)ordered then they are doing exactly what they promised. If I worked at a game store and I sold you a copy of Barbie Dreamhouse under my assurances that it would get you stoned off your ass...and that failed to happen you wouldn't go spouting off that EB screwed you...you would say some dumbass employee screwed you.

You apparently didn't know that ATI doesn't actually make the Xbox360 graphics chip, so I am assuming that you know little of the difficulties going into manufacturing the console. Microsoft has three very large manufacturing plants. Shipping these consoles is not a laughing matter either. Needless to say even your 6 months notice is not enough to allow them to build another manufacturing facility, or add on to an existing one. Large ships turn slowly.


P.S.

third of all colors are annoying
 
Yes all we need is more stupid frivolous lawsuits.

Something/someone pisses you off? Sue them! Clearly it must be illegal to piss you off.
 
ERA-S-MUS...


in fact i did know that MS had purchased the ability to manufacture the ATI chips....but I did just find out recently - like last week when I read the Anandtech article. I am familiar with manufactoring plants - and I like you have taken economics classe several years back when I finished college........Regardless, and off topic, ATI's stock has shot up, as Microsoft still had to PURCHASE the rights to the chip and probably PURCHASED a tremendous amount if not all of the current chips through ATI....My thoughts, and I don't have any details on this, but I would suppose that the ability to manufacture the chips that MS purchased will be utilized later in the xbox360's lifespan, and that currently they are buying their supply through ATYT - hence the market value jump. Once they've leveled out the supply for the demand then they can concentrate on building these card fabricating factories, but I doubt that has really been on the top of MS's priority sheet now (prior to launch) since the purpose of purchasing the rights to manufactor the chips is to save money and MS has never been in the hardware business thus does not have the infastructure setup to be producing their own chips yet.
 
I don't buy the interest/profit arguement.

EBG/GS would still have made interest/profit from all these preorders, regardless of whether or not customers had their 360 at launch. Customers won't be getting anything out of that, so why shouldn't they be sued for it? Is a 360 on ones hands sufficient to look the other way?
 
Archaea said:
ERA-S-MUS...


in fact i did know that MS had purchased the ability to manufacture the ATI chips....but I did just find out recently - like last week when I read the Anandtech article. I am familiar with manufactoring plants - and I like you have taken economics classe several years back when I finished college........Regardless, and off topic, ATI's stock has shot up, as Microsoft still had to PURCHASE the rights to the chip and probably PURCHASED a tremendous amount if not all of the current chips through ATI....My thoughts, and I don't have any details on this, but I would suppose that the ability to manufacture the chips that MS purchased will be utilized later in the xbox360's lifespan, and that currently they are buying their supply through ATYT - hence the market value jump. Once they've leveled out the supply for the demand then they can concentrate on building these card fabricating factories, but I doubt that has really been on the top of MS's priority sheet now (prior to launch) since the purpose of purchasing the rights to manufactor the chips is to save money and MS has never been in the hardware business thus does not have the infastructure setup to be producing their own chips yet.
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ATI has not and will never manufacture a single Xenos chip (aside from maybe engineering samples during the design process). Microsoft has and will continue to be in charge of all the manufacturing of the chips. They dont manufacture the chip themselves, rather they contract large fabs like TSMC to make the chips.
 
I just had to chime in here... two things need to be addressed...

You can't tell me that most any member on this board wouldn't sell their Xbox 360 to the first person that offered them $1000+ for it. (hell I probably would!) Selling on ebay is not evil in that respect - supply and demand, life's a bitch - and people with money will obviously have the cool toys, long before people with out.... no matter how stupid they may be for over paying...

My thought is this - if you are lucky enough to get one now... and can live with out if for 1-2 more months... (Let's face it, there aren't many games screaming "BUY ME" for this system at the moment.... ) Then why not sell it, and maximize?! Think, if you could sell your system to some stooge willing to pay $1000+ for something that you paid less than half for... why wouldn't you? Hell, patience goes a long way folks (this goes for buyers and sellers) ... Those patient enough to wait for the next shipment wont have to pay $1000+ Those patient enough to sell their current unit and wait for their next chance, will have $1000+ to put towards their next unit and accessories / games....

I see no harm in that - but to the point of this thread.........

When somebody comes on here crying and bitching about not getting his 5 reserved Xboxs on release day because (oh my god!) now he can't resell them with insane profit.... All I can say is Boo, Fukin' Hooooo... I can't say I care much for other people in general, it's my some what @sshole nature, however, I'd rather see all your reservations go to some kid who saved his money, or some family who's giving it to their kid for chirstmas....
IF I were manager or even lowly employee of the store you reserve 5 units at, you would be the first person I'd call and say tough luck....

I think Publicly making an ass of yourself complaining how you can't capitolize on the Xbox launch would have not been in your best interest at this point...
Especially when some memebrs here are genuinly getting screwed over by the shorter shipments.

Flame On.... (however this thread is probably reaching the end of it's life...)
 
Bobby said:
I don't buy the interest/profit arguement.

EBG/GS would still have made interest/profit from all these preorders, regardless of whether or not customers had their 360 at launch. Customers won't be getting anything out of that, so why shouldn't they be sued for it? Is a 360 on ones hands sufficient to look the other way?
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What I find interesting about the interest/profit argument is how little they could get out of it. The market hasn't been growing by leaps and bounds, so lets be conservative and say they made a nice 5% margin on their investments....are you really going to sue them to get your 5% of 50$ back? Hell you couldn't even sue them in small claims court for that, so you bring a class action suit against them and seek punitive damages perhaps?

Knowing full well that most of the punitive damages will be summarily reduced by the judge, and that most of the profit from the punitive damages will be eaten by the lawyers what is the real point of a class action lawsuit?
 
hah, M$ is sitting on stock and are choosing to release so many units at launch. I'll believe otherwise when you show me valid proof from M$ that they physically could not create the supply for the demand. This consumer hysteria convinces others who weren't going to purchase an xbox to get one since they fear they are missing out and only have this chance to get one. They do this until they have the population in a furbie frenzy then release what they are sitting on and the consumer goes nuts and buys them all up, only because they fear if they don't get one now they won't be able to for a certain amount of time, and in some minds they will never get the chance again. If M$ flooded the market with all available units at launch, the ones who didn't intend on getting one won't, since the consumer demand isn't there and there isn't the fear of supply running out...
 
I just want to jump in here as well

First, the OP is a dick, pre-ordering 5 x360s and then being told sorry, can't deliver, suffer

a) MS controls the supply, not your games store
b) MS isn't going to "ramp up" production just for you
c) MS has supply problems anyways and they could not care less about your ebay dreams
d) MS probably did/did not tell the retailers about their supply woes, either way, doesn't change things now
e) I am sure your game store has a pre-order policy thing, saying something like

"When you drop cash with us to pre-order $ITEM, you allow us to do whatever we feel like with your cash until such time as you either, buy $ITEM or cancel your pre-order"

Fact is, there isn't enough supply, your demand was too high, you lose.

You can piss and moan and give us all lessons in your financial acumen (everyone knows to properly invest you go with bio-tech or if you are more of a contrarian investor you would go more into bonds/obligations) but the fact is (like in the stock market) you tried to make a move but the market cornered you out. You miss out this turn, sorry, maybe next time.
 
I don't see anything wrong with what the OP did.

I got news for everyone. Microsoft only makes the xbox to make money. They don't give a shit about you and they don't care who buys them. So if someone buys 20 of them and smashes them on Christmas eve in front of a crowd of people that really want one for their kid for Christmas, it's really too bad.

BUT, Microsoft wants to make MONEY, just like EB does. So what does that mean? If you come down to it, the ONLY REAL REASON most places limit you to 1 xbox is so you'll buy all the damn extras. (cables, controllers, games) If they just let the first guy come in, buy all the xbox consoles, and go sell them on ebay, the store would lose a lot of money on all the other crap they want to sell you. Don't think they're limiting people to one console to do you a favor or something.

Preorders are a scam though. Always have been. They didn't promise you anything. All you did was give them free money. All it does it assure your business when the product finally arrives. I learned that lesson long ago.

The fact that the OP got burned on it shouldn't really be a surprise to most people. It's like he put all his chips on a "hard eight" on the craps table and then got surprised when the dice came up 7 think it was easy money. The preorder concepts entire purpose is to make money on people that can't wait, which I find irony in, considering EB got the last laugh using the same ideas he was.

Don't get me wrong though, while I find it amusing, I still don't see anything wrong with the idea. You're only a sucker if you allow yourself to be one. I mean lets face it, EB used the same concept on him... cashed in on his needing to be the first one to have a 360. If people don't want it at a high price, then don't buy it. They can stand in line or hope they got on a list ahead of time that will guarantee them one. If that fails they can suck it up and wait for more to come in, or pay an insane amount of money to be the first group to have one.

It's not like there's a food shortage or something.

How many people that buy just 1 Xbox 360 legitimately will turn around and resell it if they find out they can make a lot of $$$ on it?

It's sad, but that's human nature.
 
He he, this reminds me of the time one of my uncles was drinking a bottle of Big Red and almost swallowed a small sliver of glass that had chipped off the top of it (probably when he opened it). He was gonna sue Big Red and "get rich, rich I tell you!". So he went to the factory (this was in San Antonio) and showed them his piece of glass that "could've kilt him!" and do you know what he got? They gave him a free case of Big Red. The End. :D

P.S. I love Big Red but it can be hard to find here in Colorado Springs. :(
 
Captain Al said:
I just had to chime in here... two things need to be addressed...

You can't tell me that most any member on this board wouldn't sell their Xbox 360 to the first person that offered them $1000+ for it. (hell I probably would!) Selling on ebay is not evil in that respect - supply and demand, life's a bitch - and people with money will obviously have the cool toys, long before people with out.... no matter how stupid they may be for over paying...
Click to expand...
Exactly. If you're not richer than the next guy, you have to be smarter than him, or when push comes to shove, you're getting pushed aside (in this case).


Captain Al said:
My thought is this - if you are lucky enough to get one now... and can live with out if for 1-2 more months... (Let's face it, there aren't many games screaming "BUY ME" for this system at the moment.... ) Then why not sell it, and maximize?! Think, if you could sell your system to some stooge willing to pay $1000+ for something that you paid less than half for... why wouldn't you? Hell, patience goes a long way folks (this goes for buyers and sellers) ... Those patient enough to wait for the next shipment wont have to pay $1000+ Those patient enough to sell their current unit and wait for their next chance, will have $1000+ to put towards their next unit and accessories / games....
Click to expand...
That's what I was getting at, but you said it better.


Captain Al said:
When somebody comes on here crying and bitching about not getting his 5 reserved Xboxs on release day because (oh my god!) now he can't resell them with insane profit.... All I can say is Boo, Fukin' Hooooo... I can't say I care much for other people in general, it's my some what @sshole nature, however, I'd rather see all your reservations go to some kid who saved his money, or some family who's giving it to their kid for chirstmas....
IF I were manager or even lowly employee of the store you reserve 5 units at, you would be the first person I'd call and say tough luck....
Click to expand...
Lets not forget that the store isn't limiting sales to be a dick or to be your friend, they just want to maximize their profit by selling more acessories, and they can more easily do that by only selling one per consumer. You can't give the store any credit here.


Captain Al said:
I think Publicly making an ass of yourself complaining how you can't capitolize on the Xbox launch would have not been in your best interest at this point...
Especially when some memebrs here are genuinly getting screwed over by the shorter shipments.

Flame On.... (however this thread is probably reaching the end of it's life...)
Click to expand...
Yeah but this happens everytime a new highly anticipated console comes out so I think anyone with enough foresight and balls to put their own money where their mouth is desirves some credit. But yeah, whining about it backfiring is not going to win any friends when it was playing the system to begin with.
 
ROFL.... I made a comment a few days ago that I would not be surprised if someone tried to do a lawsuit over this. People flamed me saying its not Gamestops fault etc.... and other silly things.

I still think Gamestop did not stop pre orders even after they knew there would be no way to supply that many consoles. That is wrong, but everyone wants to blame M$ for the shortage instead of how individual companies handled their supplies.

As for contracts etc..... The local store here takes your money and gives you a receipt with the product listed and 0.00 charged. Then below it has store credit for the amount needed to hold the pre order.

No where on this does it say you will get the console on the 22. However no where does it say you will NOT get the console on the 22.

If you look around the store everything leads you to think that pre orders will let you get whatever product the day of release without waiting in lines.
 
You know what I think?

I think preordering in general has reached the point of insanity, and hopefully the stink of this whole debacle, whether it be for privateers or gamers, will be pungent enough to make some corporate asshats hold their nuts.

I have never pre-ordered anything, all of THIS (waves hands at forum) is why. In fact I got accosted by a perfectly annoying stranger in a movie line just because I attempted to empathize with him when he was complaining about getting shafted by Gamestop on his 360.

Turns out he works there and I got a 15 minute wait full of info on all the new games I should come in and preorder because he's rated on preorders and he only makes $6.25/hr so it's not like he makes comission or anything and this other guy gets all his friends to preorder and so he just talks to everybody he meets about doing it and blah blah FF12, and blah blah Kingdom hearts 2, and blah blah blah Mario Kart DS rocks and ad infinitum

I wanted to punch through his head and touch his brains, it was the WORST in line experience since I made the mistake of waiting at 6am for the morning matrix revolutions showing. Teach me to talk to strangers... I would rather have been molested.

If the business of preorders can drive people THIS crazy then it needs to have something done about it. The fact that you put good money down on something that isn't even guaranteed to you is absolute bullshit. Having learned from the PS2 launch on up, I just have to say that if it isn't worth waiting in line to get, I don't need it that bad. I'm actually rethinking my stance on the 360.

Nobody preorder anything else ever again, NOTHING. Nobody else, no more preorders.

Tell your friends
 
pre-orders are a scam, as was said before, all it does is basically assure the business that you will

a) purchase said product at THEIR store
b) most likely buy all the other related crap with them

AND, you pay them money for this.

See cause they also know that even if they can't deliver on the first shipment, you will wait for the second because what are you going to do? Take your money back and lose your place in line and try to find one somewhere else?

They know they have the impatient "Gotta have it first" ones caught, plus the ebay whores as well. (oh and for the record, if I could buy a xbox 360 for 400 and sell it for 800, shit yeah I would, but I wouldn't complain if I couldn't either.)

The rest of us normal people will just wait for stock to come in, the market to settle, more games to come out and maybe the price to come down. Its still the same games, we haven't "missed" anything.
 
Order Policy
Pricing and promotions on EBgames.com may vary from that of Electronics Boutique, EB Games and EBX stores.
Your receipt of an electronic or other form of order confirmation does not signify our acceptance of your order, nor does it constitute confirmation of our offer to sell. EB Games reserves the right at any time after receipt of your order to accept or decline your order for any reason. EB Games reserves the right at any time after receipt of your order, without prior notice to you, to supply less than the quantity you ordered of any item. We may require additional verification or information before accepting any order.

So did you negotiate different terms with eb than what is listed above? If so sue for breach of contract. It is naieve to assume that any company will be able to provide quantity of units, as you said, they dont even know the name of. You broke the 'never place all your eggs in one basket' rule. Supply chain problems are a bitch.

You believed what you wanted too as opposed to the reality that these units would be hard to get for everyone. That somehow everyone else who was trying to do the same thing would be screwed but not you. Lets face it, if there was no shortage the units would not be selling for $800+ on ebay. This is exactly why businesses negotiate contracts that lay out specific penalties for either party failing to live up to their respective ends before sealing a deal. You agreed to the terms of the deal the second the deposit was made. Did you even discuss the "what if's" with the manager?

Having said that, it does not bother me one bit that you were planning to gouge people on ebay for a luxury item. Rather that when blatantly forseeable problems threw a monkey wrench onto the plan, what should be a lesson for future opportunities imho, takes an immediate turn to talk of litigation. I have no hate for you personally but you should have seen this coming a mile away and taken the appropriate precautions to ensure availability of a known hard to obtain product if this was such a big "business" deal.
 
i wish the OP did get all of his 5 xbox360's, him and all the hundreds of other EBAY flippers trying to get a quick buck. I also wish MS supplied enough for everyone that wanted one ON TOP of preorders. That way, there is no percieved shortage, every good boy/girl gets one for christmas and all for MSRP. That way the OP has to sit on 4 extra xbox's that he has to sell at cost or even less and eat loss.

if i was looking to get an xbox on release, id wanna pay for MRSP for it and basically by ordering more than you can consume, in an effort to resell and profit, you are trying to take that away from me by inflating demand. Lets throw out some general numbers for arguements sake. Lets say MS can make 10k units a month, regardless of demand, thats max output. Orders file in and 6 months later MS has 100k pre-orders. They cant possibly fill them and so some ppl get screwed. Why so many preorders? cus of people preordering multiples. If everyone just wanted one, there would only be 50k orders thus supplying demand and everything would be fine.

IMO you dont provide value-added to justify that much of profit. If lived near you, id drive my self and get one, but you were being a 360 whore taking em all i have no other option. I dont really care about if some yuppie making 100k buys an xbox off you on ebay. What i do care about are the people who you do screw royally because they have no choice. We know this is luxury item but people in this materialistic society have screwed up priorities and you're exploiting it. I think about the 18 yr old college kid who cash advances on his first credit card even tho he doesnt know how credit works. Or the single mom who works two jobs and times are rough but her son has gotten straight A's and never got into trouble and never got rewarded for it. I know there are kids out there not eating lunch cus they are saving up for an xbox, i know i used to do it for NES games when i was a kid.
 
dirtydr said:
Order Policy
Pricing and promotions on EBgames.com may vary from that of Electronics Boutique, EB Games and EBX stores.
Your receipt of an electronic or other form of order confirmation does not signify our acceptance of your order, nor does it constitute confirmation of our offer to sell. EB Games reserves the right at any time after receipt of your order to accept or decline your order for any reason.
Click to expand...

I never seen anything like that in the stores... or anything even saying to to a website to view that. Wonder if it applies only to online orders?


I wonder how many people getting those big fancy combo packages are getting their systems even if they ordered after the "first shipment" deadline?
 
Sui said:
I wonder how many people getting those big fancy combo packages are getting their systems even if they ordered after the "first shipment" deadline?
Click to expand...

I bet they get bumped to the top and the people that pre-ordered in MAY we bumped down so they can make more money....just sad. That being said, I will NEVER buy anything from EB again.

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=977449
 
alkoholik said:
I bet they get bumped to the top and the people that pre-ordered in MAY we bumped down so they can make more money....just sad. That being said, I will NEVER buy anything from EB again.

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=977449
Click to expand...

I think the way they are doing it is allocating a certain percentage of their units to each tier. I think they have separate lines for each bundle package. At least that was what I surmised from the fact that back when the preorders were "sold-out" Gamestop still had some of their "uber-leetness mega extreme OMG it will r0x0rz your b0x0rz" edition bundle available but nothing else.
 
I know for a fact that EB managers are told to move ANYONE they suspect of intending to sell their 360(s) to the end of the reservation list, no matter WHEN they pre-ordered. As a matter of fact, they aren't supposed to allow more than one

I would bet money that the reason you got moved back so far was your 5 orders. If you had placed only 1 order at that store then you would either be in the initial release, or in the second one (probably early December).
 
i love how everyone is like, oh your raping people on ebay...

if someone is willing to pay more than retail for it, then they are only raping themselves!
 
It does annoy me in the extreme that they are prioritizing their preorders by how many accessories the customer already promised to buy, rather than when the customer signed up, but other than that, I could give a fuck.

It's already been said, but I'll repeat it: Boo-fucking-hoo. I absolutely applaud their decision to cut people who they thought would resell the mechandise. I'll bet that if you said you'd drop your order from 5 to 1 so you could just have one for yourself, they would have put you back on the list and you'd get one at launch. Heck, with $250 down, you're only $150 off from a premium bundle.
 
The point is that the person defended himself stating that he made a bunch of money on ATYT stock and he whines about not getting his 5 pre-orders so he can make even more money so he can basically get a Xbox360 for nothing.

Made $6000 in stocks in one week > $$$ from the sale of 4 Xbox 360 > cost of 1 Xbox 360 on Ebay > a lump of coal

:D
 
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